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Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers

Chris Amos 10 Feb 08 - 08:40 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Feb 08 - 08:58 AM
Chris Amos 10 Feb 08 - 11:49 AM
Richard Bridge 10 Feb 08 - 01:32 PM
Malcolm Douglas 10 Feb 08 - 03:22 PM
Chris Amos 11 Feb 08 - 01:22 AM
Richard Bridge 11 Feb 08 - 04:54 AM
Folkiedave 11 Feb 08 - 05:50 AM
Folkiedave 11 Feb 08 - 09:44 AM
GUEST,tasha 12 Feb 08 - 09:21 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 12 Feb 08 - 01:22 PM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Feb 08 - 09:45 PM
GUEST,Gadaffi 13 Feb 08 - 11:49 AM
synbyn 13 Feb 08 - 12:56 PM
synbyn 13 Feb 08 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,tasha 14 Feb 08 - 05:33 AM
GUEST,Arnie sans cookie 14 Feb 08 - 10:53 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 15 Feb 08 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Gavin Atkin 16 Feb 08 - 09:53 AM
GUEST,michele scamp 21 Jul 10 - 04:08 PM
GUEST,Gadaffi 22 Jul 10 - 07:59 AM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Chris Amos
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 08:40 AM

I have recently moved to east Kent and in the interests of joining in village life I have managed to get myself roped into giving a talk on English Folk music to the local WI group on St George's day.

I would like to include some examples of local Kentish singers, I have examples of the Smiths (Phoebe, Levi etc.) and the round index, here lists quite an amount of songs collected in Kent, which is a good start. I am particularly interested in the singer Charlie Scamp, who was, I believe, the cousin of Phoebe Smith and lived, for a while at least, in the next village to us, Chartham Hatch.

If anyone has some notation of his songs, or an MP3 they could let me have as I don't hold out much hope of getting one out of the BBC, I would be grateful.

I have trawled through the Kent County Library on line catalogue and is very poorly stocked in the Folk Music section, there is a book, by Ken Thompson: A Kentish Man & His Songs' that is out of print, there are no copies for sale on line and the library doesn't have it, could anyone help there please.

This is quiet a scary undertaking for me, I think, probably wrongly, that the WI are quite a formidable bunch.

Regards,

Chris


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 08:58 AM

I'd be interested in how you get on - and maybe learn some of the songs you dig out...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Chris Amos
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 11:49 AM

Hi Richard, you would be most welcome I will update this thread with how I get on.

I have just been on the village walk and one of the other people on it is involved in the Chartham society and she has put me in touch with someone who she believes is related to Charlie Scamp and still lives in the area.

I have been meaning to get to the clubs in the area and I have made Faversham a couple of times, but I have had a lot to do on the house since we moved and I have ended up still working in London instead of Rainham as was the plan. Oh well roll on summer.


Chris


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 01:32 PM

I find Faversham a bit concert-y and a bit not enough "joining-in".

You might find Mark Lawson of Dead Horse Morris informed. The problem can be stopping him informing you once he has started...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 03:22 PM

The late Peter Kennedy recorded Charlie Scamp, so those recordings are unavailable at the moment. One song, 'Atching Tan Song', is transcribed in Kennedy's Folksongs of Britain and Ireland. If you don't have ready access to that, I can copy it for you.

'Ken Thompson: A Kentish Man and His Songs' isn't a book, but a two-page article by Fran and Geoff Doel that appeared in English Dance and Song, 54, 2, 1992. Again, I can sort you out a copy.

Since you've checked the Roud Index, you'll know about Mike Yates' Kent recordings, some of which are available from Musical Traditions. All the booklet notes are available at the MT website.

Quite a few collectors got stuff in Kent, though the county wasn't researched systematically as (for example) Dorset, Hampshire and Somerset were in the early years of the C20. Still, there are various transcriptions in the Journal of the Folk-Song Society and the like, so if there's anything particular you're interested in seeing, let us know.

The set of 'Death and the Lady' in The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs / Classic English Folk Songs was found in Kent, incidentally (though some of the verses were added from other versions).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Chris Amos
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 01:22 AM

Malcolm,

If you could let me have both the 'Atching Tan Song' and the article that would be wonderful. I had noticed that a couple of tracks are available from MT and I will set about getting those.

Shall I pm my email address to you?

Thanks


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 04:54 AM

Surely "the nutting girl" is a Kent song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singe
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 05:50 AM

I can sell you a copy of Peter Kennedy's book - but it is expensive to post.

This should be a great help - Paul Cowdell is worth getting in touch with.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singe
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 09:44 AM

You could also try Kent Gathering of Traditional Music 29/03/08.

Details from gmatkinatgmail.com and replace the "at" with the usual sign.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,tasha
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 09:21 AM

I know charlie scamp he passed away a while ago.

he had a sister called pheobe you can get her cds form the web


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 01:22 PM

That's very interesting, 'GUEST,tasha' - would you like to tell us a bit more? What was he like and did you ever hear him sing?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 09:45 PM

I think that 'tasha' means Phoebe Smith (née Scamp).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 11:49 AM

The finest songer from east Kent was George Spicer (1905-1982) whose album on Topic 'Blackberry Fold' whould easily be one of my Desert Island disc. He was born near Ashford, moved around Kent as a farmworker, before finally crossing into Surrey and Sussex around WW2. There were also a few recordings of Jack Goodban on Topic.

Other than that, the BBC, through Frank Collinson recorded many singers in the Ashford area in the days before tape recording was commonplace. Cecil Sharp House has his notebooks.

I wrote a number of articles published in Bygone Kent which should be available at the town's public libraries.

Simon Evans (BBC Radio Kent) may have recordings of travellers from East Kent.

The Phoebe Smith CD is available from Veteran.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: synbyn
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:56 PM

Ron, George's son, was brought up in Kent and until a few years ago was active in West Kent, though he lived in Turners Hill. He and many others are featured on 2 albums The Bells Of Canterbury and Apples, Cherries, Hops and Women on the Steel Carpet label. There is also a songbook to go with this. Featured singers are Andy Turner, Pete Castle, Bob Kenward, Tantethra (Dave & Kath Grabham & their daughter Heather), Bing Lyle, Ron Spicer, Maria Cunningham, with Steve Moreham and Ian Lawther playing fiddle and pipes- these is a mixture of traditional and original song/ tunes from Kent avoiding most of the usual suspects... and there will be at Broadstairs a concert hour called Singing The Songs Of Kent with Bob, Sue Watson, Bernard Quenby and Ken Latham. All the above have been regulars at folk clubs across the county and are very approachable!
The Faversham Club has national guests- very fine club- and singers nights between - so does Deal, and Crabble Mill/ The Drum Stanford are well worth a visit- see you somewhere soon!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: synbyn
Date: 13 Feb 08 - 12:57 PM

Oops Keys of Canterbury...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,tasha
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 05:33 AM

Charlie and Pheobe are my grandfathers brother and sister they were the youngest of 22 children most of the younger ones were singers including my grandfather he was never recorded though I did actually here some of them singing when I was a child at family get togethers.

There is also a book written about the family called the moon in my pocket by rupert croft cooke charlie and pheobe are both mentioned as is my grandfather.

I have been reasearching the family tree now for 16 years and new interesting bits keep popping up as so many people are interested in them


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,Arnie sans cookie
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:53 AM

Synbyn - I run the Deal folk club website, thanks for the plug

Chris - Have a look at www.dealfolkclub.co.uk (sorry, forgotten how to do blue clicky) for whats on. We have many singaround nights coming up and you are more than welcome to perform or just listen - we're about 40-45mins from Chartham Hatch. The above named Ken Latham is a regular and has a wealth of knowledge when it comes to Kentish folk tradition - his speciality is maritime disasters around our coastline but he's quite happen to regale the audience with his own poems about ancient local murder and mayhem.


Adrian


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 08:26 AM

Thank you 'GUEST, tasha',

Best of luck with your research and I will look out for a copy of that book.
I have an old Topic LP of Phoebe Smith and the more recent CD - she was a fine singer.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singe
From: GUEST,Gavin Atkin
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 09:53 AM

Chris -

If you do make it to the Kent Gathering at the end of March, please come and say hello and make yourself known to the organisers.

I'd be very interested to hear what you find, and curious to know how it goes down with the WI!

Gavin gmatkinatgmail.com


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,michele scamp
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 04:08 PM

goood to hear all ure comments only just found this site as i know u posted comments in 2008 ??? i am charlie scamps grandaughter an i can remeber even in later ife him singing espically at gatherings i would like to get hold of hes recordings if anybody knows were i can get them from would be really helpful thanks


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Songs of Charlie Scamp and Kent singers
From: GUEST,Gadaffi
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 07:59 AM

Charlie Scamp was recorded by the late Peter Kennedy and Maud Karpeles in 1954.
There are 7 songs on a Folktracks cassette 'English Gipsy Singers' FSA 45-140: Barbary Allen, Young Leonard, Father Dear Father, How Old are you my Pretty Fair Maid, A Blacksmith Courted Me, Folkestone Murder, and the Atching Tan song.
If Michele emails me her address, I could make a copy on cassette - I haven't time or technology yet to work out how I could put it on CD-R. Contact me on george.frampton@thomsonreuters.com
I think it is Topic Records intention to re-release the Folktracks catalogue. I don't know where they are with the project - I don't suppose the recession has helped, and there's the tendency to put out everything for downloading on MP3 (whatever that is.)
There's also a chance that Simon Evans from BBC Radio Kent may have something.


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