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Lyr Req: The Farmer and the Shanty Boy

GUEST,Lynn Koch 10 Feb 08 - 08:11 PM
Malcolm Douglas 10 Feb 08 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,Lynn Koch 11 Feb 08 - 09:03 AM
dick greenhaus 11 Feb 08 - 08:06 PM
GUEST,Lynn Koch 12 Feb 08 - 05:50 AM
GUEST,Lynn Koch 12 Feb 08 - 04:39 PM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Feb 08 - 07:06 PM
dick greenhaus 12 Feb 08 - 08:23 PM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM
GUEST,Lynn Koch 12 Feb 08 - 09:21 PM
Dave Ruch 12 Feb 08 - 10:08 PM
Malcolm Douglas 12 Feb 08 - 10:40 PM
Jim Dixon 16 Feb 08 - 05:07 PM
Jim Dixon 03 Apr 10 - 08:04 AM
Jim Dixon 03 Apr 10 - 08:24 AM
Artful Codger 03 Apr 10 - 06:11 PM
Dave Ruch 03 Apr 10 - 06:15 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: GUEST,Lynn Koch
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 08:11 PM

Hello Mudcatters:

I'm doing musical transcriptions for a trad music expansion of the website at tauny.org (Traditional Arts in Upstate New York). Some of my transcriptions are being done from archival field recordings, and it's difficult to hear some of the words. I'm working on "The Farmer and the Shantyboy" as recorded from the singing of Lily deLorme by Helen Hartness Flanders on August 29, 1944. I've check the local college library, and they don't have the book which might contain the song. Can anyone give me a hand here?

Many thanks.

Lynn Koch
for the tauny.org website


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 10 Feb 08 - 08:26 PM

What book would that be?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: GUEST,Lynn Koch
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 09:03 AM

I don't know if it IS in a book, Malcolm. This may be the first time this version of the song has been transcribed, but I kind of doubt that. But it wasn't in either of the Flanders books at the Cortland (NY) College Lib.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Feb 08 - 08:06 PM

Here's one version:

As I strolled out one evening as the sun was going down
I strolled along quite carelessly till I came to Scranton town,
There I overheard two fair ladies as slowly I passed by,
One said she loved her farmer's son while the other loved the shanty boy.

Now the one that loved her farmer's son, these words I heard her say,
The reason that she loved him, at home with her he'd stay
He would stay at home all winter, to the woods he would not go,
And when the spring it did come in, his land he'd plow and sow.

"Now as for plowing and sowing your land", the other one did say,
"If your crops should prove a failure your debts you could not pay..
If your crops should be a failure, or your grain market be low
The sheriff ofttimes would sell those crops for to pay the debts you owe."

"Now there's no need of going in debt when you own a good farm
For every day you earn your bread, not work through rain and storm
For every day you earn your bread, not work through storm or rain,
While the shanty boy works hard all day his family to maintain.

"Now I don't like this soft talk", this other one did say,
"For some of them are so green the cows would eat them for hay,
How plainly you can tell him when he rolls into town
You'll hear him cry out from a small boy up, Why Dick how are you down?"

"Now I do like my shanty boy that goes out in the fall
For he is tough and rugged and fit to stand the squall,
He gets big pay all winter and in the spring when he comes down
His money with me he will spend free while the mossback sons have none."

"Well, here is to your shanty boy, I hope you'll pardon me,
And of my ignorant mossback I'll try now to get free,
And if ever I gain my liberty with a shanty boy I'll go
And I'll leave that ignorant mossback with his land to plow and sow."

From singing of Ellen Stekert, on Folkways recording "Songs of a New York Lumberjack"
Collected from Fuzzy Barhight


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: GUEST,Lynn Koch
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 05:50 AM

Thanks, Dick, but I need Lily deLorme's rendition of the song.

LAK


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: GUEST,Lynn Koch
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 04:39 PM

A friend of mine suggests that perhaps the Lily deLorme version of this song has NOT been transcribed before. (This is the one recorded by Helen Hartness Flanders in 1944.) Any ideas on this?

Lynn


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 07:06 PM

The Roud Index lists no transcriptions of that version, and so far as I remember, all Flanders' books are indexed there. There are plenty of other examples that have been transcribed, but you may be on your own with this one.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 08:23 PM

I can't help with unpublished versions, but there are variants in Rickaby "Ballads and Songs of the Shanty-Boy", and in Gardner & Chickering "SOngs of Southern Michigan"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM

Variants are in quite a few books; some from Fowke, Flanders and so on; but not the one asked for. Presumably, Lynn, you know that the Roud Index can now be searched online at the VWML website?

Roud Folk Song Index

Search for Roud number 670. Perhaps some transcriptions may help; or perhaps not.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: GUEST,Lynn Koch
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 09:21 PM

Thanks for the help, guys!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 10:08 PM

Lynn,

I just had a whack at it, comparing the Ezra Barhight text above with the Flanders audio of deLorme. I went to Fowke & Warner for a few key things I wasn't quite hearing accurately on the deLorme recording. I can't get a few words in the last line, but I believe the rest is good. Can anyone help on the last verse (which doesn't seem to appear at all in any of the other versions I have).

As I rode out one evening just as the sun went down
Quite carelessly I roved around till I came to Trenton town,
I heard two maids conversing as slowly I passed them by,
One said she loved a farmer's son and the other a shanty boy.

The one that loved the farmer's son, these words I heard her say,
The reason why I like him, at home with me he'll stay
He'll stay at home all winter, to the shanty he'll not go,
And in the spring when it does come in, his lands he'll plow and sow.

"As for to plow and sow the fields", the other girl did say,
"And if his crops do not do well, his debts he can not pay
His crops they prove a failure, or the grain market be low
Oft times the bailiffs sell them out to pay the debts they owe."

"As for the bailiff selling out, it does not me alarm
There's no danger of going in debt while you're living on a farm
You put your land down in the spring and don't work through storms of rain
While your shanty boy must work each day his family to maintain.

"Oh how I like my shanty boy that goes away in the fall
He is both stout and hearty and able to stand the squall,
Quite cheerfully I'll greet him when he comes home in the spring
His money will be free and he'll share it with me while your farmers sons have none."

"Oh how you praise your shanty boy that in the woods doth go
He's ordered out before daybreak to work through storms and snow
While happy and contented my farmer's son can lie
And he'll whisper tales of love to me till the storm goes raging by

"I cannot bear the soft talk", your farmer's son would say,
"For some of them they are so green that a cow might eat for hay,
How easy you can tell them whenever they come to town
For the little boys after them will run, saying "Nick why are you down?"

Now what I've said of your shanty boys, I hope to be excused
If from those ignorant farmer's sons I ever do get free
If ever I do get a chance, with a shanty boy I'll go
And I'll leave him broken hearted, his lands to plow and sow."

Oh it's how you've slighted your farmer's son, that plows and sows the field
You will believe the statement as how the crops do yield
With your shanty boys ?????????????? with money in both hands
And without a sigh with him I'll go, and while he works his land

From the singing of Lily deLorme, Cadyville/Hardscrabble NY, August 1944


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Lyrics for The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 12 Feb 08 - 10:40 PM

Can anyone help on the last verse? That would depend on whether the audio is available to anyone but you two, I think.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 05:07 PM

Where can one hear the audio of Lily deLorme singing THE FARMER AND THE SHANTY BOY?

I'd be happy to help with the transcription if only I could hear it.


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHANTY BOY
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 08:04 AM

From Flying Cloud by Michael Cassius Dean (Virginia, Minn.: The Quickprint, 1922), page 51:

SHANTY BOY.

As I walked out one evening just as the sun went down,
So carelessly I wandered to a place called Stroner town,
There I heard two maids conversing as slowly I passed by.
One said she loved her farmer's son, and the other her shanty boy.

The one that loved her farmer's son those words I heard her say,
The reason why she loved him, at home with her he'd stay.
He would stay at home all winter, to the woods he would not go,
And when the spring it did come in, his grounds he'd plow and sow.

"All for to plow and sow your land," the other girl did say,
"If the crops should prove a failure your debts you couldn't pay.
If the crops should prove a failure, or the grain market be low,
The sheriff often sells you out to pay the debts you owe."

"As for the sheriff selling the lot, it does not me alarm,
For there's no need of going in debt if you are on a good farm.
You make your bread from off the land, need not work through storms and rain,
While your shanty boy works hard each day his family to maintain."

"I only love my shanty boy who goes out in the fall,
He is both stout and hardy, well fit for every squall.
With pleasure I'll receive him in the spring when he comes home,
And his money free he will share with me when your farmer's son has none."

"Oh, why do you love a shanty boy? To the wild woods he must go.
He is ordered out before daylight to work through rain and snow,
While happy and contented my farmer's son can lie,
And tell to me some tales of love as the cold winds whistle by."

"I don't see why you love a farmer," the other girl did say.
"The most of them they are so green the cows would eat for hay.
It is easy you may know them whenever they're in town.
The small boys run up to them saying, 'Rube, how are you down?'"

"For what I have said of your shanty boy I hope you will pardon me,
And from that ignorant mossback I hope to soon get free,
And if ever I get rid of him for a shanty boy I will go,
I will leave him broken-hearted his grounds to plow and sow."


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Subject: Lyr Add: SHANTY BOY
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 08:24 AM

From "Life in a Logging Camp" by Arthur Hill, in Scribner's Magazine Vol. 13, No. 6 (New York: Charles Scribner's Sons, June, 1893), page 705:

SHANTY BOY.

As I walked out one evening, just as the sun went down,
I carelessly did ramble till I came to Saginaw town,
I heard two girls conversing as slowly I passed them by.
One said she loved her farmer's son, and the other a shanty boy.

The one that loved the farmer's son, these words I heard her say:
"The reason why I love him is at home with me he'll stay.
He'll stay at home all winter, to the woods he will not go,
And when the springtime comes again, his lands he'll plow and sow."

* * *

"I shall always praise my shanty boy who goes to the woods in fall,
He is both stout and hearty, and fit to stand a squall.
With pleasure I will greet him in the spring when he comes down.
His money on me he'll spend it free when your mossback he has none."

"How can you praise your shanty boy, who to the woods must go?
He's ordered out before daylight to face the frost and snow,
While happy and contented my farmer's son will lie,
Soft tales of love he'll tell to me while the storms are blowing by."

"I never can stand that soft talk," the other girl did say.
"The most of them they are so green the cows could eat them for hay.
How easy it is to know them when they come into town.
The small boy shouting after them, 'Mossback, how come you down?'"

"What I've said unkind of your shanty boy, I do not mean it so,
And if ever I meet with one of them along with him I'll go,
And leave my mossback farmer's son to plough and plant his farm,
While my shanty boy so bold and free will save me from all harm."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Artful Codger
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:11 PM

How about a chune? If you send me a sound clip (PM for an email addy), I can probably transcribe to ABC.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Farmer and the Shanty Boy
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 03 Apr 10 - 06:15 PM

Thanks for reviving this thread, Jim. You can now hear (and download) Lily Delorme's version here.

Also contained there is a transcription by Lynn Koch, the original poster.

I'm curious about the Scribner's Magazine article you cited - - does it say where Arthur Hill did his lumbering?


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