Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM

Bob, thanks so much such a fine seam of information.It's clear that this song has had a life of its own for a long time.

I had a good time in New England, Summer of 1970, working at Camp Greylock in the Berkshire Hills. Tried my best to leave "Nobody likes me everybody hates me just 'cause I eat worms" with all who attended Greylock. we sang in some local bars and had a good day at Fox Hollow Festival,

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:06 AM

"Away With Rum" was in wide circulation among college outing clubs in the early (I think) and certainly mid-1950s.

I first heard it from "Brigger" -- Bill Briggs, then itinerant around the Dartmouth campus. He never told me where he got it, but Brigger had many strange sources, including a wide acquaintance of singers the country over, plus chapbooks and 1940s phonograph records.

He and I included "Away With Rum" as part of our 1957 edition of "Crud 'N Corruption," a mimeographed collection of folk and novelty songs handed out among college singers in and around New England, so the full version was informally in print at least by then.

Brigger's source could not have been Rose O'Neill's 1941 version as sung in Randolph, Vol II, p 414. She sang only the first verse, and her tune was different from Brigger's.

What's notable about Ms O'Neill's version, which she called "Temperance Song," is that she says she learned it about 40 years ago. That would put the song's time of origin around 1900. Which means that the earliest occurrence as given in the Trad Ballad Index is 40 years after the fact -- and only covers the first verse of some half dozen or more.

(Funny thing, I could have sworn it was printed in Dick and Beth Best's IOCA Song Fest. But I checked my copy and it isn't there (so much for memory cells). The Brigger version in "Crud 'N Corruption" may thus have been the first printing -- but of course that wasn't published, just informally circulated as a songbook to "chubbers.")*
                                  *Hikers, campers, skiers, climbers, road bums.

The original must have been either a serious temperance song or a satirical one, probably professionally composed and published, between, say, 1890 and 1905. That would put it in the heyday of the Temperance Movement that achieved Prohibition in 1919 with the Volstead Act.

Fascinating ... I had no clue this song had such a mysterious background till I started looking into it.

Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 05:38 AM

It's a bit like some wild child that has run away from home. It's been charging around the world having a great time! I think I will join it

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 11:50 PM

The filkers, who must have added a thousand stanzas by now, have:

We don't travel by rail -- they put club cars on trains.
It's like giving the devil the keys to your brains.
Oh, is there a sorrier tale you can tell
Than to leave from South Station and end up in hell?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Scotus
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:46 PM

I definitely remember Hamish Imlach singing this in the mid to late 60s. He used the biscuits verse for sure.

Jack

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rowan
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM

Rapaire's chorus and the first two of the three verses he gives were word for word as sung in Oz in the 60s.

Sorry Les, if I gave you the impression I had ignored the 1941 date but I thought you'd be interested in the possibility of tracking transformations as well as origins and, obviously, didn't make that quite clear.

None of the versions above or in the DT include one from Oz in the early 60s where, before metrication, the standard sized glass for a beer was 7 fl.ozs.

Oh we don't eat trifle 'cos trifle has sherry
and one bit of trifle will make a man merry;
oh can you imagine the day comes to pass
they start serving trifle in a seven ounce glass

There may be others but, it was a long time ago and my books are in storage.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM

These I certainly heard in English version from Mike Harding

and the one about alcohol rubbed on "tutsies" = toes/feet being absorbed by osmosis from MH himself

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 11:37 AM

I believe (I'm at work) that the CMT sang it as:

We never eat cookies because they have yeast
And one little bite turns a man to a beast
Can you imagine a sadder disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Also

We never eat fruitcake because it has rum
And one little bite turns a man to a bum
Can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

At some point I also ran across

We don't approve back rubs, we think they're a crime
We'll alway oppose them in song and in rhyme
We just can't approve back rubs, they're much worse than gin
When you think of the alcohol absorbed through your skin.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:29 AM

Could be, he had a great collection of funny songs.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:27 AM

Do I recall Diz Disley singing it, in the 60's?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:20 AM

Same as already posted: (Only one word different from yours)

Away, away with rum, by gum
With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum
Away, away with rum, by gum
That's the song of the Salvation Army


I have remembered the whole verse now:

We never eat biscuits, cos biscuits have yeast
And one little bite turns a man to a beast
Can you imagine the shame and disgrace
To be found in the gutter with crumbs on your face

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:14 AM

Excellent pavane, do you recall the chorus?

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:47 AM

My mother knew it from her youth, so 1930's to 40's, I expect.

Slightly different, e.g.

CAN YOU IMAGINE the shame and disgrace
To be found in the gutter with crumbs on your face

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:44 AM

At the risk of repeating things endlessly:

"We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago."

This fits Away, away rather well and on the face of it takes us back to the turn of the Century!

I suspect the move from Temperance to Salvation could be when the song came to the UK. We don't know much about the Temperance Union but we sure the Sally Army

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:24 AM

Joe points out that the Mitchell Trio recorded it in 1961, so it had to be around prior to that.

I suspect that the group was changed from "Salvation Army" to "Temperance Union" to avoid annoying the SA. The WCTU was (and is) considered fairly toothless, although I wouldn't want to annoy them either. Being bashed by little old ladies with parasols and handbags isn't my idea of a good time.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rowan
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:43 PM

The 'North Atlantic Squadron' MIDI is the tune for both verse and chorus of that song, and is pretty much the same as the chorus for 'Away with Rum'.

Joe's contention that the song must come from the "North Atlantic Squadron" series of songs has a fair amount going for it; it wouldn't be the first song with different tunes for the verse and chorus where the tune for the chorus became subsequently attached to a later song.

1963/4 seems to be the earliest date anyone on this thread has yet put to 'Away with Rum' under its various names. The earliest date I can remember singing it (I picked it up aurally rather than from texts) was in the early 60s ('61-'64) during parties at Melbourne Uni. While is had only about seven verses (at that time and in that place) it rapidly acquired extra home-grown verses that melded with other versions at universities around Oz. But the temperance organisation in the chorus in Oz (within my hearing) was always the Salvation Army.

But I can't yet shed any light on earlier transformations/origins.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 07:13 PM

Are you dry? Are you dry?
Or are you bound for hell where you will fry?
We are the little troupe
Who will make the brewers droop
When they hear our battle cry
Are you dry?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:18 PM

Thanks Joe,

"We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago."

This is definitely the forbearer, does it ring a bell with anyone else?

Subject: ADD Version: Temperance Song (from Randolph)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM

Never say "die," Les. I'm still of the opinion that the song must come from the "North Atlantic Squadron" series of songs. I don't think we've found the missing link to trace the origins of this song, though. The Chad Mitchell Trio recorded the song as I know it in 1961 on their Mighty Day on Campus album, and Theodore Bikel recorded a version with what sounds like a Brooklyn accent on A Folksinger's Choice in 1964. It was published in Sing Out! Reprints in 1963.
Dick Greenhaus remembers "Demon Fruitcake" from the late 1940's, so that takes it back a good bit. Googling for "Demon Fruitcake" brings up lots of entries, but I think they all come from the Digital Tradition, with its spelling "immagine" (an occasional spellling error can have advantages).

Thern there's this from Randolph's Ozark Folksongs (Volume 2, #317):

Temperance Song

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.


Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago.

That fragment is all Randolph got. Frustrating, eh?

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Click to play

-Joe-

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At St. Francis Seminary and School of Pastoral Ministry (my Alma Mater) we used to chant this at the end of "Rum By Gum":

Rooty toot, toot;
Rooty toot, toot.
We are the boys from the Institute.
We don't smoke and we don't chew;
And we don't go with girls that do.
(Our class won the Bible.)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

Looks we have a hit a brick wall on this one?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:43 AM

Hmmmm. "South Asian Army"? I like that....

I learned it as "song of the Temperance Union." In my experience, modern Sally Anns (Salvation Army representatives) spend more time feeding the homeless, rather than combatting Demon Rum.

I guess I'd never played the tune from the Digital Tradition. It isn't the tune I know at all. I've transcribed the tune from Sing Out! (except that I raised "think" a third on "because we do think"). The chorus is the way Bikel sings it - I learned the Chad Mitchell Trio version, but long before I ever heard the Chad Mitchell recording.

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Click to play (joeweb)

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:05 PM

Rapaire - that is Salvation Army, another temperance charity organization, still around.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:13 PM

By the way, it's listed in the Songbook as Rum by Gum.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:12 PM

According to the The Mitchell Trio Songbook (Chicago: Quadrangle Books, 1964), p. 80:

The was originally English. When it came here it was a parody satirizing the South Asian Army. People didn't think the South Asian Army deserved quite that bad, so the changed the focus to the Temperance Union.

I can't find any indication as to who did the notes to the songs, but it was probably one of the Trio.

The "Temperance Union" mentioned in the song probably refers to the Women's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU) which still exists and is active today. I can't find anything on the "South Asian Army", which simply means I can't find anything and not that it's a bad reference.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM

I am covered in dust and cobwebs and not been able to trace the Sing Out volume which contains this, I have about 5!! so far

I have only "Folk Singers Word Book" which contains 3 verses! and has no notes, largely I believe based on Sing Out!

So best of luck in the provenace dept

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:41 AM

Thanks Repair. I have found lots of verses perhaps as many as 40, some I understand and some I don't. It is clearly a living tradition, but it would be good to know who set it on it's way

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:22 AM

It was recorded by the Chad Mitchell Trio and is printed in the "Chad Mitchell Trio Songbook."

I'll try to remember to check and post the lyrics from that when I get home from work.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:30 AM

AP is probably a figment of MH and DB's vivid imagination at the time!
Will have a look at Sing Out!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 06:53 AM

Ray, do Reprints give any origin and what, prey, is the relationship between AP and DB?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:55 AM

Heard Mike Harding sing this many times and I have it in "Reprints from Singout" bought many years ago

Barnsley is 70 miles from the sea but Gawber Lighthouse and Pogmoor [Poggie] pier are well known here

Arthur Parrot ~ well know to Dave Burland I believe!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:56 PM

Just a wee comment on the MIDIS for Away with Rum and North Atlantic Squadron.

Joe, to my ears these don't really sound the same. Either that, or I'm getting mixed up with all the MIDIs.

The 'Away with Rum' MIDI is the tune for the verses only. For me, it bears something of a resemblance to the verse tune for 'Cigarettes and Whisky and Wild, Wild Women'.

The 'North Atlantic Squadron' MIDI is the tune for both verse and chorus of that song, and is pretty much the same as the chorus for 'Away with Rum'.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM

It was in the Forest School Camps songbook that I acquired at camp 40 years ago (and still possess), and is still in their online version....

Kitty

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SONG OF THE SALVATION ARMY We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band To drive all the fruit cake from this wicked land Away, away with rum, by gum With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum Away, away with rum, by gum That's the song of the Salvation Army We're going to ban fruit cake, it's chock full of rum Just one single bite puts a man on the bum Away, away with rum... A man who eats fruit cake is a terrible disgrace He rolls in the gutter with crumbs on his face Away, away with rum... Can you imagine a more horrible sight Than a man who eats fruit cake until he is tight? Away, away with rum... A man who eats fruit cake leads a terrible life He's cruel to his children and beats up his wife Away, away with rum... A man who eats fruit cake dies a horrible death With the odour of raisins and rum on his breath Away, away with rum, by gum With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum Away, away with rum, by gum That's the song of the Salvation Army

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 01:08 PM

The song appears (?) on the Mike Harding album, "Mrs 'ardin's Kid.

This is what Mike gives for it's origin:

"Learnt from a Barnsley Lighthouse Keeper called Aurthur Parrot who was a onetime Salvation Army Provisional adept at feeding Brewers drayhorses with senna pods. I once knew a Salvation Army girl, she'd got a square navel through carrying the flag without a pole bucket. It didn't look nice but it was great for putting salt in when we were having fish and chips in bed. Thanks to Frank Duffy."

Whilst I have no reason to doubt any of this, I suspect that Frank Duffy had more to do with the song than the alleged Aurthur Parrot.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:52 PM

A somewhat earlier version (I heard it in the late 1940s) was called "Demon Fruitcake". The chorus was:

Away, away, with rum, by gum
It's the song of the Salvation Army.

The verses were:
We're marching, we're marching our brave little band
Against Demon Fruitcake we'll all take our stand

cho:

Oh can you imagine an awfuller sight
Than the man who eats fruitcake until he gets tight

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake goes down to his death
With the odor of raisins and rum on his breath

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake lives a terrible life
He mistreats his children and he beats his wife.

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake goes down in disgrace
As he rolls in the gutter with crumbs on his face.

cho

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Note from Joe: the Guest who posted this message was either Dick or Susan of the Digital Tradition, not logged in (I'm guessing it was Dick). See the link above to the DT entry, "Demon Fruitcake."
Thanks, Dick (or Susan).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's North Atlantic Apprentice
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:16 PM

"The North Atlantic Squadron"
been known to play a verse or two on the piano *LOL*


Joe, I googled "North Atlantic..." and the Digital Tradition link was the first up..thanks for adding it here as well.

Charlotte (doesn't own a fife or drum, but piano doesn't scan into the lyrics)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:14 PM

I dunno, Les. Listen to the MIDI - I'd say it's more-or-less the same tune.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:10 PM

Thanks Charlotte,

This song "The North Atlantic Squadron" pops up in the search for Away with rum but the verses don't scan to the tune that I know for 'Rum' and it is quite clearly a different song.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:08 PM

Indubitably astute, Charlotte - I added The North Atlantic Squadron to the crosslinks above (your link got it from the Digital Tradition).
-Joe Offer-

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Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index:

Rum By Gum (Temperance Union Song)

DESCRIPTION: "We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band, On the right side of temperance we do take our stand.... Away, away with rum, by gum, The song of the (Salvation Army/Temperance Union)." Various verses on the value of sobriety
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1921 (Welch & Moore, Michigan's Favorite College Songs)
KEYWORDS: drink political nonballad
FOUND IN: US(So)
REFERENCES (6 citations):
Randolph 317, "Temperance Song" (1 text, 1 tune -- a fragment without the chorus)
CrayAshGrove, pp. 36-37, "Away, Away" (1 text, 1 tune)
Pankake-PHCFSB, pp. 6-7, "Away With Rum" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 233, "Away With Rum" (1 text)
DT, (AWAYRUM*) (AWAYRUM2*) (AWAYRUM3*) (AWAYRUM4*) (AWAYRUM5*)
ADDITIONAL: Roy Dickinson Welch & Earl Vincent Moore, _Michigan's Favorite College Songs_, Sixth Edition, University Music House, 1921 (available on Google Books), p. 224, "Away with Rum" (1 text, 1 tune)
Roud #12765
NOTES [57 words]: Warning: All the Digital Tradition versions are parodies of one sort or another (AWAYRUM5 is 35 verses, almost all silly, almost all modern). Many singers today sing this as a joke. But the roots of this piece are almost certainly serious (compare Randolph's version).
Thanks to Jim Dixon for pointing out the Wallace & Moore version. - (JD), RBW
Last updated in version 4.3
File: R317

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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's naughtycal Apprentice
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:02 PM

It reminds me very much of this

Charlotte (all at sea)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM

So far so erm, good then?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:42 AM

.........it's only the black ones that make me go mad!'

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:48 AM

Now that's what I call a real tear jerker!

Subject: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:38 AM

Away, away with rum by gum
With rum by gum, with rum by gum
Away, away with rum by gum
It's the song of the salvation Army.

I first heard this song around 1964 and had forgotten all about it until the other day. The L & R has lots of references and dozens of verses but no clear idea of where it comes from.

By the sheer number of verses many people must have contributed but I guess somebody started it off.

Any ideas?