Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum

Subject: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:38 AM

Away, away with rum by gum
With rum by gum, with rum by gum
Away, away with rum by gum
It's the song of the salvation Army.

I first heard this song around 1964 and had forgotten all about it until the other day. The L & R has lots of references and dozens of verses but no clear idea of where it comes from.

By the sheer number of verses many people must have contributed but I guess somebody started it off.

Any ideas?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Obie
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 10:48 AM

Now that's what I call a real tear jerker!

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Mr Happy
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:42 AM

.........it's only the black ones that make me go mad!'

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM

So far so erm, good then?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's naughtycal Apprentice
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:02 PM

It reminds me very much of this

Charlotte (all at sea)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:08 PM

Indubitably astute, Charlotte - I added The North Atlantic Squadron to the crosslinks above (your link got it from the Digital Tradition).
-Joe Offer-

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Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index:

Rum By Gum (Temperance Union Song)

DESCRIPTION: "We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band, On the right side of temperance we do take our stand.... Away, away with rum, by gum, The song of the (Salvation Army/Temperance Union)." Various verses on the value of sobriety
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1921 (Welch & Moore, Michigan's Favorite College Songs)
KEYWORDS: drink political nonballad
FOUND IN: US(So)
REFERENCES (6 citations):
Randolph 317, "Temperance Song" (1 text, 1 tune -- a fragment without the chorus)
CrayAshGrove, pp. 36-37, "Away, Away" (1 text, 1 tune)
Pankake-PHCFSB, pp. 6-7, "Away With Rum" (1 text, 1 tune)
Silber-FSWB, p. 233, "Away With Rum" (1 text)
DT, (AWAYRUM*) (AWAYRUM2*) (AWAYRUM3*) (AWAYRUM4*) (AWAYRUM5*)
ADDITIONAL: Roy Dickinson Welch & Earl Vincent Moore, _Michigan's Favorite College Songs_, Sixth Edition, University Music House, 1921 (available on Google Books), p. 224, "Away with Rum" (1 text, 1 tune)
Roud #12765
NOTES [57 words]: Warning: All the Digital Tradition versions are parodies of one sort or another (AWAYRUM5 is 35 verses, almost all silly, almost all modern). Many singers today sing this as a joke. But the roots of this piece are almost certainly serious (compare Randolph's version).
Thanks to Jim Dixon for pointing out the Wallace & Moore version. - (JD), RBW
Last updated in version 4.3
File: R317

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Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:10 PM

Thanks Charlotte,

This song "The North Atlantic Squadron" pops up in the search for Away with rum but the verses don't scan to the tune that I know for 'Rum' and it is quite clearly a different song.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:14 PM

I dunno, Les. Listen to the MIDI - I'd say it's more-or-less the same tune.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's North Atlantic Apprentice
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:16 PM

"The North Atlantic Squadron"
been known to play a verse or two on the piano *LOL*


Joe, I googled "North Atlantic..." and the Digital Tradition link was the first up..thanks for adding it here as well.

Charlotte (doesn't own a fife or drum, but piano doesn't scan into the lyrics)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 12:52 PM

A somewhat earlier version (I heard it in the late 1940s) was called "Demon Fruitcake". The chorus was:

Away, away, with rum, by gum
It's the song of the Salvation Army.

The verses were:
We're marching, we're marching our brave little band
Against Demon Fruitcake we'll all take our stand

cho:

Oh can you imagine an awfuller sight
Than the man who eats fruitcake until he gets tight

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake goes down to his death
With the odor of raisins and rum on his breath

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake lives a terrible life
He mistreats his children and he beats his wife.

cho:

The man who eats fruitcake goes down in disgrace
As he rolls in the gutter with crumbs on his face.

cho

---

Note from Joe: the Guest who posted this message was either Dick or Susan of the Digital Tradition, not logged in (I'm guessing it was Dick). See the link above to the DT entry, "Demon Fruitcake."
Thanks, Dick (or Susan).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 01:08 PM

The song appears (?) on the Mike Harding album, "Mrs 'ardin's Kid.

This is what Mike gives for it's origin:

"Learnt from a Barnsley Lighthouse Keeper called Aurthur Parrot who was a onetime Salvation Army Provisional adept at feeding Brewers drayhorses with senna pods. I once knew a Salvation Army girl, she'd got a square navel through carrying the flag without a pole bucket. It didn't look nice but it was great for putting salt in when we were having fish and chips in bed. Thanks to Frank Duffy."

Whilst I have no reason to doubt any of this, I suspect that Frank Duffy had more to do with the song than the alleged Aurthur Parrot.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 04:03 PM

It was in the Forest School Camps songbook that I acquired at camp 40 years ago (and still possess), and is still in their online version....

Kitty

---

SONG OF THE SALVATION ARMY We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band To drive all the fruit cake from this wicked land Away, away with rum, by gum With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum Away, away with rum, by gum That's the song of the Salvation Army We're going to ban fruit cake, it's chock full of rum Just one single bite puts a man on the bum Away, away with rum... A man who eats fruit cake is a terrible disgrace He rolls in the gutter with crumbs on his face Away, away with rum... Can you imagine a more horrible sight Than a man who eats fruit cake until he is tight? Away, away with rum... A man who eats fruit cake leads a terrible life He's cruel to his children and beats up his wife Away, away with rum... A man who eats fruit cake dies a horrible death With the odour of raisins and rum on his breath Away, away with rum, by gum With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum Away, away with rum, by gum That's the song of the Salvation Army

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 14 Feb 08 - 06:56 PM

Just a wee comment on the MIDIS for Away with Rum and North Atlantic Squadron.

Joe, to my ears these don't really sound the same. Either that, or I'm getting mixed up with all the MIDIs.

The 'Away with Rum' MIDI is the tune for the verses only. For me, it bears something of a resemblance to the verse tune for 'Cigarettes and Whisky and Wild, Wild Women'.

The 'North Atlantic Squadron' MIDI is the tune for both verse and chorus of that song, and is pretty much the same as the chorus for 'Away with Rum'.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:55 AM

Heard Mike Harding sing this many times and I have it in "Reprints from Singout" bought many years ago

Barnsley is 70 miles from the sea but Gawber Lighthouse and Pogmoor [Poggie] pier are well known here

Arthur Parrot ~ well know to Dave Burland I believe!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 06:53 AM

Ray, do Reprints give any origin and what, prey, is the relationship between AP and DB?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:30 AM

AP is probably a figment of MH and DB's vivid imagination at the time!
Will have a look at Sing Out!

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:22 AM

It was recorded by the Chad Mitchell Trio and is printed in the "Chad Mitchell Trio Songbook."

I'll try to remember to check and post the lyrics from that when I get home from work.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:41 AM

Thanks Repair. I have found lots of verses perhaps as many as 40, some I understand and some I don't. It is clearly a living tradition, but it would be good to know who set it on it's way

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 11:48 AM

I am covered in dust and cobwebs and not been able to trace the Sing Out volume which contains this, I have about 5!! so far

I have only "Folk Singers Word Book" which contains 3 verses! and has no notes, largely I believe based on Sing Out!

So best of luck in the provenace dept

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:12 PM

According to the The Mitchell Trio Songbook (Chicago: Quadrangle Books, 1964), p. 80:

The was originally English. When it came here it was a parody satirizing the South Asian Army. People didn't think the South Asian Army deserved quite that bad, so the changed the focus to the Temperance Union.

I can't find any indication as to who did the notes to the songs, but it was probably one of the Trio.

The "Temperance Union" mentioned in the song probably refers to the Women's Christian Temperance Union (WCTU) which still exists and is active today. I can't find anything on the "South Asian Army", which simply means I can't find anything and not that it's a bad reference.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:13 PM

By the way, it's listed in the Songbook as Rum by Gum.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Susan of DT
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 10:05 PM

Rapaire - that is Salvation Army, another temperance charity organization, still around.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:43 AM

Hmmmm. "South Asian Army"? I like that....

I learned it as "song of the Temperance Union." In my experience, modern Sally Anns (Salvation Army representatives) spend more time feeding the homeless, rather than combatting Demon Rum.

I guess I'd never played the tune from the Digital Tradition. It isn't the tune I know at all. I've transcribed the tune from Sing Out! (except that I raised "think" a third on "because we do think"). The chorus is the way Bikel sings it - I learned the Chad Mitchell Trio version, but long before I ever heard the Chad Mitchell recording.

---

Click to play (joeweb)

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

Looks we have a hit a brick wall on this one?

Subject: ADD Version: Temperance Song (from Randolph)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM

Never say "die," Les. I'm still of the opinion that the song must come from the "North Atlantic Squadron" series of songs. I don't think we've found the missing link to trace the origins of this song, though. The Chad Mitchell Trio recorded the song as I know it in 1961 on their Mighty Day on Campus album, and Theodore Bikel recorded a version with what sounds like a Brooklyn accent on A Folksinger's Choice in 1964. It was published in Sing Out! Reprints in 1963.
Dick Greenhaus remembers "Demon Fruitcake" from the late 1940's, so that takes it back a good bit. Googling for "Demon Fruitcake" brings up lots of entries, but I think they all come from the Digital Tradition, with its spelling "immagine" (an occasional spellling error can have advantages).

Thern there's this from Randolph's Ozark Folksongs (Volume 2, #317):

Temperance Song

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.


Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago.

That fragment is all Randolph got. Frustrating, eh?

---

Click to play

-Joe-

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At St. Francis Seminary and School of Pastoral Ministry (my Alma Mater) we used to chant this at the end of "Rum By Gum":

Rooty toot, toot;
Rooty toot, toot.
We are the boys from the Institute.
We don't smoke and we don't chew;
And we don't go with girls that do.
(Our class won the Bible.)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 01:18 PM

Thanks Joe,

"We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago."

This is definitely the forbearer, does it ring a bell with anyone else?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Snuffy
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 07:13 PM

Are you dry? Are you dry?
Or are you bound for hell where you will fry?
We are the little troupe
Who will make the brewers droop
When they hear our battle cry
Are you dry?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rowan
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 10:43 PM

The 'North Atlantic Squadron' MIDI is the tune for both verse and chorus of that song, and is pretty much the same as the chorus for 'Away with Rum'.

Joe's contention that the song must come from the "North Atlantic Squadron" series of songs has a fair amount going for it; it wouldn't be the first song with different tunes for the verse and chorus where the tune for the chorus became subsequently attached to a later song.

1963/4 seems to be the earliest date anyone on this thread has yet put to 'Away with Rum' under its various names. The earliest date I can remember singing it (I picked it up aurally rather than from texts) was in the early 60s ('61-'64) during parties at Melbourne Uni. While is had only about seven verses (at that time and in that place) it rapidly acquired extra home-grown verses that melded with other versions at universities around Oz. But the temperance organisation in the chorus in Oz (within my hearing) was always the Salvation Army.

But I can't yet shed any light on earlier transformations/origins.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:24 AM

Joe points out that the Mitchell Trio recorded it in 1961, so it had to be around prior to that.

I suspect that the group was changed from "Salvation Army" to "Temperance Union" to avoid annoying the SA. The WCTU was (and is) considered fairly toothless, although I wouldn't want to annoy them either. Being bashed by little old ladies with parasols and handbags isn't my idea of a good time.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:44 AM

At the risk of repeating things endlessly:

"We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill - Day, Missouri, Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago."

This fits Away, away rather well and on the face of it takes us back to the turn of the Century!

I suspect the move from Temperance to Salvation could be when the song came to the UK. We don't know much about the Temperance Union but we sure the Sally Army

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 09:47 AM

My mother knew it from her youth, so 1930's to 40's, I expect.

Slightly different, e.g.

CAN YOU IMAGINE the shame and disgrace
To be found in the gutter with crumbs on your face

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:14 AM

Excellent pavane, do you recall the chorus?

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:20 AM

Same as already posted: (Only one word different from yours)

Away, away with rum, by gum
With rum, by gum, with rum, by gum
Away, away with rum, by gum
That's the song of the Salvation Army


I have remembered the whole verse now:

We never eat biscuits, cos biscuits have yeast
And one little bite turns a man to a beast
Can you imagine the shame and disgrace
To be found in the gutter with crumbs on your face

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: pavane
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:27 AM

Do I recall Diz Disley singing it, in the 60's?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 10:29 AM

Could be, he had a great collection of funny songs.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 11:37 AM

I believe (I'm at work) that the CMT sang it as:

We never eat cookies because they have yeast
And one little bite turns a man to a beast
Can you imagine a sadder disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Also

We never eat fruitcake because it has rum
And one little bite turns a man to a bum
Can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

At some point I also ran across

We don't approve back rubs, we think they're a crime
We'll alway oppose them in song and in rhyme
We just can't approve back rubs, they're much worse than gin
When you think of the alcohol absorbed through your skin.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 02:56 PM

These I certainly heard in English version from Mike Harding

and the one about alcohol rubbed on "tutsies" = toes/feet being absorbed by osmosis from MH himself

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Rowan
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 04:48 PM

Rapaire's chorus and the first two of the three verses he gives were word for word as sung in Oz in the 60s.

Sorry Les, if I gave you the impression I had ignored the 1941 date but I thought you'd be interested in the possibility of tracking transformations as well as origins and, obviously, didn't make that quite clear.

None of the versions above or in the DT include one from Oz in the early 60s where, before metrication, the standard sized glass for a beer was 7 fl.ozs.

Oh we don't eat trifle 'cos trifle has sherry
and one bit of trifle will make a man merry;
oh can you imagine the day comes to pass
they start serving trifle in a seven ounce glass

There may be others but, it was a long time ago and my books are in storage.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Scotus
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 08:46 PM

I definitely remember Hamish Imlach singing this in the mid to late 60s. He used the biscuits verse for sure.

Jack

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 11:50 PM

The filkers, who must have added a thousand stanzas by now, have:

We don't travel by rail -- they put club cars on trains.
It's like giving the devil the keys to your brains.
Oh, is there a sorrier tale you can tell
Than to leave from South Station and end up in hell?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 05:38 AM

It's a bit like some wild child that has run away from home. It's been charging around the world having a great time! I think I will join it

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:06 AM

"Away With Rum" was in wide circulation among college outing clubs in the early (I think) and certainly mid-1950s.

I first heard it from "Brigger" -- Bill Briggs, then itinerant around the Dartmouth campus. He never told me where he got it, but Brigger had many strange sources, including a wide acquaintance of singers the country over, plus chapbooks and 1940s phonograph records.

He and I included "Away With Rum" as part of our 1957 edition of "Crud 'N Corruption," a mimeographed collection of folk and novelty songs handed out among college singers in and around New England, so the full version was informally in print at least by then.

Brigger's source could not have been Rose O'Neill's 1941 version as sung in Randolph, Vol II, p 414. She sang only the first verse, and her tune was different from Brigger's.

What's notable about Ms O'Neill's version, which she called "Temperance Song," is that she says she learned it about 40 years ago. That would put the song's time of origin around 1900. Which means that the earliest occurrence as given in the Trad Ballad Index is 40 years after the fact -- and only covers the first verse of some half dozen or more.

(Funny thing, I could have sworn it was printed in Dick and Beth Best's IOCA Song Fest. But I checked my copy and it isn't there (so much for memory cells). The Brigger version in "Crud 'N Corruption" may thus have been the first printing -- but of course that wasn't published, just informally circulated as a songbook to "chubbers.")*
                                  *Hikers, campers, skiers, climbers, road bums.

The original must have been either a serious temperance song or a satirical one, probably professionally composed and published, between, say, 1890 and 1905. That would put it in the heyday of the Temperance Movement that achieved Prohibition in 1919 with the Volstead Act.

Fascinating ... I had no clue this song had such a mysterious background till I started looking into it.

Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:17 AM

Bob, thanks so much such a fine seam of information.It's clear that this song has had a life of its own for a long time.

I had a good time in New England, Summer of 1970, working at Camp Greylock in the Berkshire Hills. Tried my best to leave "Nobody likes me everybody hates me just 'cause I eat worms" with all who attended Greylock. we sang in some local bars and had a good day at Fox Hollow Festival,

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:19 AM

Seeing the more modern versions of "Away With Rum" in the DT, which feature many newly written verses, I thought it might be useful to put in Brigger's core version as I remember it. These were the only verses I ever heard sung in the 50s, either by Brigger or others.

AWAY WITH RUM

As sung by Brigger, 1955. He sang all the verses straight through if I recall correctly, using the chorus only at the end.

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we now take our stand,
We don't use tobacco because we do think
That the people who use it are likely to drink,
We never eat fruit cake, it's chock full of rum,
And the least little bite turns a man to a bum!
Have you ever seen a more pitiful sight
Than a man eating fruit cake until he gets tight?
Have you ever seen a more public disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

CHO   Away, away with rum by gum, with rum by gum, with rum by gum
          Away, away with rum by gum, that's the song of the Salvation Army.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 07:38 AM

Harrigan and Braham may have originated at least the refrain in an 1882 vaudeville song ... though the verses are different:

SALVATION ARMY

Words by Edward Harrigan, music by Dave Braham, 1882

Oh, Cleveland and Folger they went out to fight,
And Cleveland hit Folger with all his might,
The winner he lives in Buffalo,
And the loser's joined the Salvation Army, oh!

CHO
Away, away with rum and gum!
Here we come, hear the drum!
A reg'lar proper lum tum-tum,
As we join'd the army, oh!

I'll give you a pointer that's on the square,
The guy in the middle's a millionaire,
He does this for fun, 'cause he's stuck on the show,
And he follows the Salvation Army, oh!

Ol' Jonahy he lived away down in a whale,
In a little back room very close to the tail,
Don't give it away, for he's out on bail,
And he sings in the Salvation Army, oh!

Spinola he started a rousing big scheme
To heat up the city and county by steam,
He's block'd up the streets I would have you to know,
And he'll blockade the Salvation Army, oh!

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 08:39 AM

I think the verses may be a parody of a hymn -- just a guess. The tune as a whole sounds hymn-like, and the phrase "we're coming, we're coming, our brave little band" especially so.

The only occurrence of "we're coming, we're coming" I've been able to turn up occurs in the following 1844 anti-slavery hymn. The meter scans right -- but I can't find the melody "Kinloch of Kinloch" in my (admittedly limited} tune sources. Can anyone help? There's a slim chance it might be the tune to "Away With Rum!"

WE'RE COMING! WE'RE COMING.

AIR--Kinloch of Kinloch. From Geo. W. Clark, The Liberty Minstrel, 1844 (an anti-slavery songbook).

We're coming, we're coming, the fearless and free,
Like the winds of the desert, the waves of the sea!
True sons of brave sires who battled of yore,
When England's proud lion ran wild on our shore!
We're coming, we're coming, from mountain and glen,
With hearts to do battle for freedom again;
Oppression is trembling as trembled before
The slavery which fled from our fathers of yore.

We're coming, we're coming, with banners unfurled,
Our motto is FREEDOM, our country the world;
Our watchword is LIBERTY--tyrants beware!
For the liberty army will bring you despair!
We're coming, we're coming, we'll come from afar,
Our standard we'll nail to humanity's car;
With shoutings we'll raise it, in triumph to wave,
A trophy of conquest, or shroud for the brave.

Then arouse ye, brave hearts, to the rescue come on!
The man-stealing army we'll surely put down;
They are crushing their millions, but soon they must yield,
For _freemen_ have _risen_ and taken the field.
Then arouse ye! arouse ye! the fearless and free,
Like the winds of the desert, the waves of the sea;
Let the north, west, and east, to the sea-beaten shore,
_Resound_ with a _liberty triumph_ once more.

(By the way, Dave Braham's tune to "Salvation Army" is a modest rework of an Irish dance tune ... can't think of the title, but anyone who wants can check the Levy Collection sheet music for "Salvation Army" and see if you can identify it. It partly resembles the Brigger tune for "Away With Rum" but there are lots of differences too.)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 09:06 AM

Okay, all I had to do was check the Fiddlers Companion website.

"Kinloch of Kinloch" isn't noticeably the "Away With Rum" tune -- given that the writeup says "'Blow the Wind Southerly' is a song based on the 'Kinloch' tune."

"Blow The Wind Southerly" (not the shanty "Blow Ye Winds Southerly," which is a different kettle of fish) is a 19th century English pop song but though the scansion matches, the "Away With Rum" tune differs substantially.

Where to from here, brave little band?

Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 22 Feb 08 - 09:17 AM

From the sublime to the silly:

Hand Sanitizer Found to Pose Abuse Risk
Associated Press | February 1, 2007

BALTIMORE — Prison officials and poison control centers can add a new substance to their list of intoxicants — hand sanitizer. A usually calm 49-year-old prisoner prompted a call to the Maryland Poison Control Center after guards found him red-eyed, combative and "lecturing everyone about life." Other inmates and staff reported the unidentified prisoner had been drinking from a gallon container of hand sanitizer, which is more than 70 percent alcohol, or over 140 proof, the center's director wrote in an article appearing in the February issue of the New England Journal of Medicine.

That call was one of about a half dozen the Maryland Poison Control Center has received involving hand sanitizers, said Dr. Suzanne Doyon, the poison center's director and co-author of the article. Doyon wrote the article along with Dr. Christopher Welsh, assistant professor in the University of Maryland School of Medicine, to raise awareness of the potential for abuse of hand sanitizers.

While the hand sanitizer contains other chemicals in smaller amounts, it is primarily the same type of alcohol found in liquor, and acts on the body in the same way, said Doyon.

"I don't think a lot of people realize these are ethanol containing, or alcohol containing. They are really no different than a really concentrated liquor," Doyon said. ....

Well I just couldn't resist adding this:

We never use hand sanitizer, it's an ethanol punch,
And prisoners take it for breakfast and lunch,
Have you ever seen any vision so vile
Than a man with clean fingers and a dim goofy smile?
Have you ever seen a more disgusting scene
Than a sanitized drunk with his hands bright and clean?

Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:32 PM

I am just trying to pull this thread together. Can anyone throw new light?

Does anyone have a copy of Randolph's Ozark Folksongs Volume 2?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 04:58 PM

RANDOLPH, VANCE (COLLECTED AND EDITED BY). Ozark Folksongs (Four Volumes).
Columbia: University of Missouri Press, 1980. Hardcover. Complete in four volumes. Volume I: British Ballads and Songs, Volume II: Songs of the South and West, Volume III: Humorous and Play-Party Songs, Volume IV: Religious Songs and Other Items. Introduction by W. K. McNeil. Second, revised edition. Firs t printing thus. Volumes I and IV are fine in very near fine (slight sun fading to title portion of spine) dust jackets. Volumes II and III are fine in fine dust jackets. A clean, bright, and attractive set. ISBN: 0826202977, 0826202985,. Near Fine in Near Fine dust jacket .

Offered for US$ 350.00 by: Grendel Books

I'm sure there must be a Dover Edition of this set.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 05:15 PM

Thanks Charlotte,

I wondered if anybody had a copy they could look in.

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:13 AM

Les, yes, I have (access to) a copy locally. I've already put in this thread nearly everything that's to be gained from looking at the song in Randolph Vol 2. But here goes.

The song is nothing but a single verse on page 414 of Volume 2. It reads, in full:

TEMPERANCE SONG
Sung by Miss Rose O'Neill, Day, Mo., Sept 2, 1941. Learned about forty years ago.

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we loyally stand,
We don't use terbacker, for this is what we think,
Them that does use it most always does drink.

That's all: just that single verse. No chorus. You now have the complete Randolph entry, except for the tune.

Does that answer your question? Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 06:11 AM

Thanks Bob, you have confirmed what I thought. I am still reading all the posts and trying to come to some conclusions. As with many of these songs the origin may well be lost but it looks like it was brought to life by a burst of creativity in the 50's and well sung from then on

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Flash Company
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 10:14 AM

First saw this printed in 'Sing Out' circa 1963, no mention of authorship, although they said 'popularized by Barbara Dane'.
Frank O'Reilly used to do it with the Union Folk, usually in a different key to what the band were playing in!

We don't allow massage, stiff muscles to cure,
Those alcohol rubs turn a man to a boor,
Oh can you imagine the terrible fate,
Of a man being massaged 'til he can't stand up straight!

Sung with (un)suitable gestures it usually brings the house down.

FC

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:22 AM

Frank O'Reilly used to do it with the Union Folk,

Where was this then, Flash?

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:24 AM

But, Barbara:

http://www.barbaradane.net/


Barbara

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: vectis
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 12:01 PM

I've been singing this one for over 30 years but have no idea of the true origins. I was told it dated from the 1920's but that new verses got added all the time. The reference to cookies rather than biscuits suggests that it is American in origin.

AWAY WITH RUM

CHORUS
Away!Away! With rum, by gum.   With rum by gum, with rum by gum.
Away! Away! With rum by gum,   That's the song of the Salvation Army

We are coming! We are coming our brave little band
On the right side of temperance we come for to stand
We don't smoke tobacco for this we do think,
That the people who do so are liable to drink

Oh! We never eat cookies 'cos cookies have yeast
And a bite from a cookie turns a man to a beast.
Oh! Can you imagine a sorrier sight,
Than a man eating cookies until he gets tight?

Oh! We never eat fruit cake 'cos fruit contains rum,& a bite from a cake turns a man to a bum.
Oh! Can you imagine a sadder disgrace,
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Oh! We never send clothes to be dry cleaned or pressed,
'Cos ether and alcohol are used in the quest.
There's nothing so sorry or sad I suppose,
Than a man getting drunk from the smell of his clothes

Oh! We do not go hiking 'cos it gives you sore feet,   'Tho surgical spirit will cure it a treat.
Because it gets through the skin by osmosis,
And you end up with ten drunk little toeses

Oh! We never use 'Brylcreem' as it's got bay rum,
And too many rubbings turn a fellow quite numb.
And now here's a thought that should have you in fits,
Just imagine those millions of paralytic nits...

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM

Vectis,

"I was told it dated from the 1920's"

Any source for this?

Cheers

and thanks

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:15 PM

The song was popular in the folk coffee houses and clubs in the Fifties. The Limelighters did a version of it. Bud and Travis and many others at the time. Barbara Dane did her version of it and I think so did the Chad Mitchell Trio.

There were many rewrites from the early Temperance Union song.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 01:19 PM

Thanks Frank. I think we have a good trail going back to the early 50's. the song seems to consolidate to its present form by then.

The interesting bit is where it came from before WW2. Perhaps Barbara Dane could help. I tried her website but couldn't find an e-mail address. She is busy celebrating 80 years of life so she sure has some experience to draw on.

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 04:13 PM

Again, Randolph's source claimed she learned it around 1900. Sure wish he had drawn her out on the subject. Randolph always did informative headnotes to each song where he had anything to go on, citing previous publication, etc., but in this case no more info is given.

I'm convinced this was either a parody of a hymn, or an original satirical song, composed either in England or in the US, c. 1890-1900. There's a good chance it may have been intended as a parody of Harrigan and Braham's "Salvation Army", but there's no real paper trail and intervening versions 1900-1940 are entirely missing. No documentation to prove the 1900 timing, either apart from that remark of hers.

Also we have no good sources for anything but the first verse previous to the 1950s. Yet I doubt Brigger or anyone he knew wrote additional verses. Frustrating!

Best bet: It may yet turn up in one of those folios of comic songs that were so popular in both Britain and America around the turn of the century. Or on an obscure 78 rpm record maybe. Music hall origin is possible, given the Harrigan-Braham tie.

Can anyone knowledgeable about the British, American (or Canadian, Australian, etc.) music hall suggest a research route?

Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

This is turning out to be a truly excellent thread.

Thanks Joe for the verse tune from 'Sing Out' - it differs quite markedly from the DT version. Whereas the chorus part aligns pretty closely with 'North Atlantic Squadron'.

Bob, thanks for your detective work! Here is a link to the sheet music for the 1882 song by Ed Harrigan and Dave Brahan, Salvation Army.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 05:19 PM

Here's another piece of the puzzle:

One of the posts near the start of this thread mentions that 'The North Atlantic' might derive from 'The Old Destroyer Squadron'. A google search has turned up this - The Old Destroyer Squadron - from the 1931 book 'Mud and Stars - An Anthology of World War Songs and Poetry (ed. Dorothea York), pp.41-42. It was reprinted from an earlier book called 'The Book of Navy Songs', first published in 1926 by the Trident Society and the US Naval Academy at Annapolis. Here is the song in a later reprint, copyrighted to 1926, with tune (pp.40-41): The Old Destroyer Squadron (1926)

Most importantly, the tune is given by York as 'The Armored Cruiser Sqadron' or 'Away with Rum'! Meaning that 'Away with Rum' (with the popular chorus tune) goes back to 1926 at least...

(BTW: The google book links I've made don't seem to link to the specific pages, but I've given the numbers so it should be easy enough).

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 12:27 AM

This verse

"Oh! We never send clothes to be dry cleaned or pressed,
'Cos ether and alcohol are used in the quest."

Has the possibility of some scientific dating - due to the technical nature of the 'dry cleaning process'. The ' 'dry cleaning' may have been been a 'home done' process - the gradual tightening of the free availability of ether and 'untreated' alcohol' would be a note. Of course, if it is just satirical, this may not be relevant anyway.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: vectis
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:51 AM

I can't remember when I was told it was a 1920s song or by whom. The date is the only thing that stuck in what passes for my mind.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Flash Company
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:56 AM

Hi Les.. Malt Shovels in Altrincham in the years when it was a music pub.
Frank's response to 'What key is this in?' was usually 'Yale!'
The group would start playing, Frank would start singing, Kenny would laugh and change key to suit Frank, leaving the rest of them floundering. Happy Days!

FC

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:00 PM

A great lady from Fresno, CA, Linda Rau, performed that fine piece of music on one of the very first evenings I ever spent in our local coffee house, "The Renaissance," circa 1958-60. She also did another iconic masterpiece,"Logger Lover," as I recall. Having learned the song from Linda (and having embellished it freely) I am still asked to do "The Salvation Army Song" by the occasional odd person (emphasize odd).

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:35 PM

Here's another clue in the 'Away with Rum'-'North Atlantic Squadron' tune puzzle.

As posted above, 'North Atlantic Squadron' was published in 1931 in the book "Mud and Stars" where the tune was given as 'The Armormed Cruiser Squadron' or 'Away with Rum'.

According to the book "Mess Night Traditions" (2007, Charles J. Gibowicz), p.76, the 'Armored Cruiser Squadron' was connected to the banning of rum rations in the US Navy by teetotalling Josephus Daniels, Secretary of the Navy, in mid-1914:

"For one of the [New York] Tribune's cartoons, some verses had been composed to fit an old song of the times and these accompanied the cartoon. The verses became a hit and were popularly sung throughout the fleet.

Away, away with sword and drum,
Here we come, full of rum,
Looking for someone to put on the bum,
In the Armored Cruiser Squadron.

Josephus Daniels is a goose,
If he thinks he can induce
Us to drink his damn grape juice
In the Armored Cruiser Squadron."

(This book is available on Google Books.)


From this piece of information and the lyrics it might be deduced that 'Away with Rum' (complete with rollicking chorus tune) predates the 'Armored Cruiser'/'North Atlantic Squadron' songs. After Harrigan and Brahan wrote the original in 1882 it probably changed tunes and went into oral tradition - Randolph's informant was probably correct in dating 'Away with Rum' to around 1900. Certainly by 1914 it was being adapted and parodied itself.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Willliam Hite
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:28 PM

Kinloch of Kinloch is the tune Robert Burns used for his stunningly beautiful song "Sweetest May".

I shall post it when I get home.

It is on the Linn Complete Burns set sung by John Moran, I think

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 04 May 08 - 09:36 PM

There's this version called 'The Salvation Army Song' from the 1947 homemade Blue Ox Song Book.


It goes:

THE SALVATION ARMY SONG

We're coming! We're coming! Our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we now take our stand.
We don't chew tobacco- because we do think
That the people who do so are likely to drink.

We never eat fruitcake; it's chuck full of rum,
And the least little bit puts a man on the bum.
Have you ever seen a more horrible sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

Have you ever seen a more public disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Away! Away with rum, by gum!
With rum, by gum! with rum, by gum!
Away! Away with rum, by gum!
Is the song of the Salvation Army.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:41 AM

Thanks Uke, that book is truly amazing. Can you tell us more about its origin?

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:08 PM

Hi Les, no I don't know anything much about it - just what can be gleaned from the pages and the website. It looks like a homemade song book, probably an edition of 25 or less (?), kind of an underground folk tradition all its own. You could drop a line to the website owner John Patrick and ask him about it.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:57 AM

Thanks Uke I will do that

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 06:42 AM

Les and Uke,

I haven't done a detailed song-by-song comparison, but it looks at a glance as if the Blue Ox Song Book may have been a partial borrowing from the earliest versions of the IOCA [International Outing Club Association] Song Fest, which was circulating perhaps in the late 1930s, certainly by the early 40s, and endured in later editions under the editorship of Dick and Beth Best into the early 1960s.

We were all doing songbooks in those years. College students in dorms and out on the trail were singing scads of ski bum, hiking, and general party songs, traditional folk, oldtime pop, and lots of parodies thereof. (No radio & TV for college students in those days -- they had to make their own entertainment, and anything was better than studying.) This was a very active movement in Europe as well - source of such gems as "I Love to Go a-Wandering" and its parody "I Hate to Go a-Wandering."

That in turn was part of the larger ferment that was breaking loose from the work of folklorists and educators, which resulted in many folk and folk-like songs becoming part of school songbooks, plus numbers of early folksingers like J J Niles, Burl Ives, Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie et al and publication of books by Sandburg, the Lomaxes, etc., so the songs were around and being actively sung, especially by those in their teens and twenties.

Young singers felt the need for songbooks to learn and sing from and circulate songs. So on campuses here and there they put together ad hoc collections, passed them out at sings. The IOCA Song Fest had become a classic by then, and was available in stacks for purchase through outing clubs, but we all knew hundreds more songs not included there, and issued them in mimeograph songbooks like the 1950s "Crud 'n Corruption" which circulated among New England hikers -- barely readable, but chock full of good songs (not bawdy songs, by the way, despite its title, just shoals of folksongs, ski songs, novelties and so on).

That's a capsule history of the milieu that produced the Blue Ox Song Book and many another like it. A good find, and a relatively early example of its kind.

Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 01:49 AM

Thanks Bob.

I have a very small collection of those kind of song books. To call it a collection is to exaggerate, I have 3 or 4, but they are fascinating and throw up some good songs.

I keep meaning to re-read the whole of this thread and try to sum it up. But today the sun shines so it wont be today.

Cheers

Les

Subject: Lyr Add: AWAY WITH RUM (1913)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 02:01 AM

From Michigan's Favorite College Songs edited by Roy Dickinson Welch, Earl Vincent Moore (Ann Arbor, Mich.: University Music House, 1921):

AWAY WITH RUM

1. Away, away with rum by gum
Here we come. Here we come.
Away, away with rum by gum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

2. We put Joe Parkers on the bum,
On the bum, on the bum.
We put Joe Parkers on the bum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

3. Put your nickels on the drum
On the drum, on the drum.
Put your nickels on the drum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

---

Song is copyright 1913 by University Music House, Ann Arbor, Michigan. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 04:45 AM

Thanks for the reminder about this brilliant old song - memories of Pete McGovern singing it in the Washhouse Folk Club in Liverpool around 1965.

Cheers

L in C

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 12:55 PM

The song certainly has evolved since 1921.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 08:02 AM

Just rediscovered this old thread of mine.

Anything new?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM

Origins of a song below the line?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 12:36 PM

Sorry my mistake

L in C#

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 01:42 PM

This song was the party piece of Eric Winter, Editor of "Sing" magazine, our equiv of "Sing Out", financed by the Workers' Musical Association which was one of the Marxist groups which jumped, inter alia, on to the 2nd [1950+] Folk Revival under auspices of such as Eric, John Hasted, Marxist physics professor at University College London (educ Winchester & New College Oxford!), et al. I met John's twin daughters last at a memorial party for Eric given by his wife Audrey, with whom I still exchange Xmas cards, when he died in 2002; John himself was also ill at the time & died soon after.

Anyhow, Eric probably learned the song from "Sing Out" & IIRC reprinted it in "Sing" c1960. He would always sing it to piano accompaniment provided by another guest at John Brunner's [sf writer & author of CND anthem The H-Bomb's Thunder] Hampstead (& later Somerset) parties; & it became popular on the London folk scene at the time. His version was pretty well analogous to most of those above: just the two verses, "We're coming...don't smoke tobacco" & "Never eat fruitcake for fruitcake has rum...Crumbs on his face".

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: GUEST,mert proctor
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 11:35 PM

The Armored Cruiser Squadron "Uke" above got two verses. Others were: The Maryland the Tennessee/the finest ships to sail the sea/they sailed around the Horn to be/in the armored cruiser squadron....The navigator's full of tar/he shoots the truck light for a star/then wonders where in the hell we are/in the armored cruiser squadron.

this song and other military ones were included in a book assembled and sold by the Field Artillery School at Ft. Sill, Okla., back in the 30's. It was a hand-held, narrow, stiff red paperback volume. I lost my ccpy years ago (lent). My dad was asst commandant of the school then.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 04:46 AM

Been having a clear out and finally traced my Reprints from Out Volume 5 page 14

"The Salvation Army has always been fair game for 20th Century satirists ~~~~ Wobblies had nothing but contempt for the charitable hymn singing organisatio. Joe Hill's song "Pie in the Sky" was a direct response to Army groups who competed for street corners in teh struggle for men's souls and minds"

Joe Hill wrote

*And the Starvation Army they play and they sing and they clap and they pray,
Till they get all your coin on the drum, then theyll tell you when you're on the bum:

You will eat by and by in that glorious land above the sky,
Work and pray, live on hay, you'll get pie in the sky when you die*

A parody on Away with Rum, but which tune?
does it work?

3 main verses quoted tobacco, cookies and fruitcake with 6 extra verses of US origin

The Osmosis verse probably attributable to Mike Harding

Heard this song sung by Bert Cleaver (former Master of The Morris ring circa 1970) on Saturday and had not heard it live since Theresa Tooley some years ago. No other provenance stated in Reprints and other info sought!

Reprints from Sing Out6th print 1963 Oak Publications
Ray

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 11:08 AM

I'm not sure how I missed this 4 years ago.

The song has been around for many years, and is an obvious and easy one to add verses to...or change a few words when you forget exactly what was heard.

I heard it in Kansas in the early 60s, with the 'standard' tobacco, fruitcake, cookies and backrub verses...and soon after learned the "Temperance Union" title. Then, from somewhere this verse popped up, and 'our' little group in Kansas almost always ended with it.

♫"When you meet a folksinger, you haven't much choice,
But to sit there and listen while they prove they have no voice.
But the most shocking thing to imagine by faaaaarrr....
Is a girl with a G string upon her guitar."♫

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:16 PM

I am curious how this migrated from the WCTU to the Salvation Army. I learned the "Temperance Union" version around 1958 or so from Peter Hall, and haver sung it occasionally ever since. The SA version is a new twist to me. Of course, I could have the sequence backwards, historically.


A

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:29 PM

Amos... I always 'thought' it was changed by someone who decided no one would know what the "Temperance Union" referred to. I heard Salvation Army several years earlier and then found a reference to "Temperance Union" as being the original. Can't tell you now...50 years later... where I saw that.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:33 PM

Away with rum, by gum, first appeared in print in 1921 in "Michigan's Favorite College Songs, according to Traditional Ballad Index.
They thank Jim Dixon for finding this reference.

Does this reference have an indication of whether it is based on Temperance Union or Salvation Army use?

(Perhaps explained somewhere above, but I have to go, and can't read the entire thread at this time,)

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Uke
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 05:54 PM

Haven't revisited this thread for some time, really interesting to see what's come up in the meantime.

Looks like 'Away with rum' was also printed in the 1919 edition of "Michigan's Favorite College Songs". Can see it listed on the contents page on Google Books, but only snippet view.

So that probably pushes it back another couple of years.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Uke
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:29 AM

I was curious, so did another search on Google Books for "Away with rum", limiting it to books published between 1850 and 1940.


There's a hit from the 1915 edition of "Michigan's Favourite College Songs". Unfortunately, no preview.

Another relevant hit was from "Yale Sheffield Monthly", vol. 21, 1915. Snippet view. Here the song is mentioned by title in some kind of article.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:17 AM

Thanks Folks - the search gets wider and older

Cheers

L i C#
in Millau, France

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: JennyO
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 09:04 PM

I decided to try and find the origins of this song, after seeing an episode of a 2012 Australian series, The Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries. The series is set in the 1920's and uses a lot of music from that period. The episode was called "Dead Man's Chest" and in a number of scenes, you see groups of angry ladies from a Temperance organisation waving placards and loudly denouncing the demon drink. The song, including a lot of verses, was sung at the end during the credits by Ange Takats, an Australian singer, and Greg Walker. It mentions the Temperance Union, rather than the Salvation Army, and it is described as 'trad', which got me wondering. I could probably find the words she sang somewhere with more research, but her version is not on YouTube, although there is a Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries Soundtrack album that can be bought or downloaded, including this song: Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries Soundtrack

Then I found another interesting page, which seems to take it back further - to 1882 in fact: The Jovial Crew

So it looks like the search might be getting even wider!

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Joe_F
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 09:48 PM

Here is another filker verse:

We never eat peaches, because they ferment,
And peaches will turn at the tiniest dent.
Oh, can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man drunk on peaches he thought were all right?

And here is one that I added a few years ago, for the Brits among us:

We shun Christmas pudding -- they souse it with brandy,
And one fiery bite turns a nice fellow randy.
If you think that's harmless, just contemplate this:
A man drunk on pudding might blow you a kiss.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 03:47 PM

BILLY. No, no; fall into line. (Song; "The Salvation Army,
Oh!" Price 40 cents, obtainable of the publishers.)

BILLY.

Salvation Billy is my name;
To seek my fortune out West I came;
To make some money now is my game,
So I join the Salvation Army, Oh--

(Chorus.)
Away, away with rum by gum;
Here we come with fife and drum,
A regular sort of a "lum tum tum."
We belong to the Salvation Amry, Oh --

TRISS.

Our Army is small, as you can see;
There's only Billy, the Judge, and me,
But we holler and shout for the jubilee--
We're a dandy Salvation Army, Oh--

((Chorus.)

JUDGE.

I'm a funny old fakir, as you can see,
To be travelling around with this Ar-mi-ee;
I'm drunk from my head to the sole of my boots,
From handling so much of the laws statoots.

See here: T'riss; Or, Beyond the Rockies by Justin Adams. 1889

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 04:54 PM

FIVE TROOPS OF THE SQUADRON,
(Tune—"Captain Jinks of the Horse Marines,")

Captain Vietor's troop is grand,
It likes to ride behind the band,
Perhaps that's way no horse will stand,
For E troop of the Squadron,

Chorus :
Away, away, now here we come,
Going some, chuck full of rum,
Looking for someone to put on the bum,
The five troops of the Squadron.

Captain Lull's social lights,
Sometimes drill on Thursday nights,
They'd rather skirmish at pink tea fights,
That F troop of the Squadron.

Captain Drowne can't get tight,
Though his troop drinks from morn to night,
They're always up in the morning bright,
That K troop of the Squadron.


VERSES OF 1912
(Words by Prentice Strong.)

Captain Townsend's troop is grand,
It marches right behind the band,
That may be why no horses stand,
For Troop One of A Squadron.

Captain Outerbridge's social lights,
They sometimes drill on Thursday nights,
They'd rather skirmish at pink tea fights,
In Troop Two of A Squadron.

Captain Wright can't get tight,
Though his troopers sit up and drink all night,
For they're always up in the morning bright*
In Troop Three of A Squadron.

Captain Olmsted's baby troop
He found one night in Stowe Phelps' stoop,
He nursed it through the measles and croup,
Into Troop Four of A Squadron.

Sergeant Sheldon's bunch of drunks,
Who carry machine guns in their trunks,
Will never be taken for holy monks—
The Gun Squad of A Squadron.


THE SONG OF THE COCAWAYS.

Away, away, with rum, by gum,
Here we come, here we come,
Away, away, with rum, by gum,
So Cockaway Tally-Ho !
(Repeat in ascending keys.)

June 14, 1930. Songs the Squadron Taught Me.    Connecting up
"away with rum" with a "squadron" but not the "North Atlantic Squadron".

See here: https://archive.org/details/1930songsthesquadrontaughtme/page/n5/mode/2up?q=%22full+of+rum%22

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 06:18 PM

So the tune given "Captain Jinks of the Horse Marines" is the tune
I have heard for "Away, Away with Rum by Gum" / "North Atlantic Squadron".


Listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmFD05b-kVo


Nice to have a name for that tune.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 12:57 PM

THE SALVATION ARMY, OH!
Copyright Secured 1882.

CAUTION.--All persons are warned from using this song under
penaldy of the law.
Words by Ed. Herrigan. Music by Dave Braham.
As sung bin E.d Harrigan's New Original LOcal Comedy, entitled
"McSorley's Inflation."

Music published by Wm. A. Pond & Co., N.Y. Will be sent by us
to any address Price 40 cents.

Come all ye creatures of woe begone,
Come join us and march along,
Join, oh, join the mighty throng
In the Salvation Army, oh!

CHORUS.
Away, away with rum and gum,
Hear the drum, come, oh, come!
The regular, proper lum-tum-tum
Is to join the army, oh!

New York City is run by two of the boys,
When they rattle their millions they make a big noise,
They own all the railroads and all of the land,
And tell all the public to go and be d----!
                        Away, away, etc.

Jonah lived inside of a whale,
In a little back room down by the tail,
Don't give it away, but he's out on bail,
And he's joined the Salvation Army, oh!
                        Away, away, etc.

Cleveland and Folger went out for a fight,
Cleveland hit Folger with all his might,
The winner he lives in Buffalo,
The loser has joined the Army, oh!
                        Away, away, etc.

Oscar Wilde came here for to show
His aesthetic taste, but it wasn't a go,
He's now reformed I'll have you to know,
And he's joined the Salvation Army, oh!
                        Away, away, etc.

Oh, now I've sung all I know
About the Salvation Army, oh!
I get a dollar for playing the drum,
And I'll drink it all in rum and gum.
                        Away, away, etc.

Undated (1880s). James F. Hoey's They are All Getting Stuck on My Shape Songster p. 44.

This gives a few extra ribald or irreverent verses that are in the sheet music.


See here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/James_F_Hoey_s_They_are_All_Getting_Stuck

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 02:06 PM

Harrigan was also the lyricist of "Buffalo" (later called "The E-Ri-E Canal", 1873) and "The Regular Army O!" (1874).

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 04:21 PM

Lighter, or anyone else that reads music, does the tune for
"The Salvation army, Oh!" match "Captain Jinks of the Horse Marines" ?


Salvation Army, Oh:
https://www.loc.gov/resource/music.mussm-sm1882-20303/?sp=2&st=image&r=-0.606,0.031,2.212,1.255,0


Captain Jinks:
https://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/collection/051/018


I know that later in the 20th century "Away with Rum" / "North Atlantic
Squadron" uses the "Captain Jinks" tune.   Does the original
"Salvation Army, Oh" song ?

Any help is appreciated.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 04:57 PM

To my ear, all three tunes - "Captain Jinks," the chorus of "Salvation Army Oh!" and the entirety of "The North Atlantic Squadron" - have strong resemblances, but they're not exactly the same.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 08:16 PM

As an ex-seminarian (8 years) and lifetime choir singer, I've always thought that the root of "Away With Rum" must be derived from a gospel song. But I haven't found it yet....

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 04:24 PM

TEMPERANCE UNION

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we do take our stand.
We don't use tobacco because we do think
That the people who use it are like to drink.

CHORUS: Away, away with rum by gum, with rum by gum, with rum by gum.
        Away, away with rum by gum
        It's the song of the temperance union.

We never eat fruitcake because it has rum
And one little bit turns a man to a bum,
Can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

CHORUS

We never eat cookies, they make them with yeast,
And one little bite turns a man into a beast.
Can you imagine such a sorry disgrace,
As a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

CHORUS

We never drink Pepsi, it's made from cocaine,
And you might as well shoot it right into your vein.
Can you imagine a sorrier bind,
Than rotting your teeth whit blowin' your mind?

CHORUS

We never drop tea 'cause it comes from a pot,
And that could be evil as likely as not,
We don't mind the taste, but it's really bad news,
To get busted for holding what Tom Lipton brews.

CHORUS

We don't step on grapes because that's making wine,
And one single stomp turns a man to a swine.
Can you imagine a fouler defeat,
Than a man getting stonkered by licking his feet?

CHORUS

Shun girls who are witty and pretty and kind,
There's nothing like love for corrupting your mind.
At least in our circle it just isn't done,
Our kids are adopted, we never have fun.

CHORUS

So drinking and eating and loving you see,
Are bound to destroy Spi-ri-tu-al-i-ty.
Our tastes are austere and our virtue is pure.
We don't have fun, but our honor is pure.

CHORUS

1980s. A Songbook of some Middle Kingdom Favorites. p.23.
Undated SCA [Society for Creative Anachronism] mimeographed songbook.
Some variant verses from a group with their own song traditions.


See here: http://www.calonsong.org/CalontirSongs/Songbook-MiddleKingdomFavorites.pdf

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 05:22 PM

THE SONG OF THE SALVATION ARMY

Chorus:

Away, away with rum by gum,
With rum by gum,
With rum by gum,
Away, away with rum by gum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

We cannot eat fruitcake, cause fruitcake's got rum,
One drop of rum turns a man to a bum,
Oh can you imagine a sorrier sight,
Than a man eating fruitcake till he is tight.

We cannot eat cookies, cause cookies have yeast,
And one taste of yeast turns a man to a beast,
Oh can you imagine a greater disgrace,
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face.

Away with Aboriginals, cos Abos have gins,
And one little gin turns a man to sin,
Oh can you imagine a sorrier sight,
Than a poor Abo bloke with no gin for the night.

Away with Tasmania cause Tassie has hops,
And one drop of hops and we call in the cops,
Oh can you imagine a greater delight,
Than the whole of Tasmania in the clink for the night.

ca. 1960. Queensland University (St. Lucia) Hockey Club Song Book. Undated Australian song book.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: GerryM
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 06:20 PM

With regards to the most recent posting of what might be termed the Queensland version, and for anyone not au courant with Australian slang, "Abo" is a derogatory term for Aboriginal, and "gin", also derived from Aboriginal, is a derogatory term for an Aboriginal woman.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 06:54 PM

Salvation Army Song

We're coming, we're coming our brave little band
On the right side of temperance we'll now take our stand
We never use tobacco because we think
That a man who will smoke is likely to drink

Chorus:

Away, away with rum by gum
With rum by gum, with rum by gum
Away, away with rum by gum
The song of the Salvation Army

Well we never eat cookies because they have yeast
And one little bite makes man like a beast
Now can you imagine a bigger disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face

Chorus

Spoken:

I was hungry and they a gave me to eat.
        He was hungry and they gave him to eat.
I was thirsty and they gave me to drink
        He was thirsty and they gave him to drink
I was a sinner and they saved my soul.
        He was a sinner and they saved his soul.
Now all I do stand on this [bang] god-damned corner [bang] beating this [bang] god-damned [bang] drum.

Chorus

Well we never eat fruitcake because it has rum
And one little bite makes a man like a bum
Now can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he got tight.

Chorus

When you meet a folk singer you haven't any choice
But to sit there and listen while he proves he has no voice
And the most shocking thing to image by far
Is a girl with a G-string upon her guitar

Chorus

We never drink beer 'cause beer is beer
One little bottle puts you on your ear.
Can you imagine a worser thing
Than a man drinking beer and then starting to sing?

Chorus

Spoken:

If I had all the beer in the world I'd throw it in the river. Yay!!
If I had all the whisky in the world, I'd throw it in the river. Yay!!
If I had all the gin in the world, I'd throw it in the river. Yay!!

Brethren let us sing hymn number fifteen.

Sung:

Wade in the water.
Wade in the water, children
Wade in the water,
God's going to trouble the water.
[Slowly] Amen.

1962. Transcribed from a recording of Ash Alley Singers. Tucson, Arizona. A good performance.

The last part of the performance uses the song "Wade in the Water".

I have field collected a "testimonial" cante fable with a
chorus of "Salvation Army, Salvation Army, throw a nickel
on the drum save another drunken bum" which I believe is related.


Listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtwVN6wRL_U

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 06:57 PM

Hence the WW2 and after Air Force song, "Throw a nickel on the grass,/ Save a fighter pilot's ass!'

Which makes no sense without the drum/bum antecedent.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 01:14 PM

[ hand written manuscript image]

An early draft of the song "The Armored Cruiser Squadron". From a
scrapbook of Rear Adm. Chauncey Thomas, USN-USNA class of 1871.
(transcript follows.)

The West Virginia and M.D.
Colorado and Pennsy See.
Are just about the proper choice.
For our Armored Cruiser Squadron.

The Washington & Tennessee
The Path-Finders--said to be
Can't hold a chandlestick to we
As an Armored Cruiser Squadron

Away, Away with Fife and Drum
Here we come
Full of rum.
Trying to put someone on the bum

Prior to 1912 when Chauncey Thomas resigned. He died in 1919.   From the book
Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships: Historical sketches p.260. Handwritten
manuscript reproduced.


See here: Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships: Historical sketches

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 01:26 PM

And that other song to the nameless air reputed to have
been sung by Uncle Sam's tars on their cruise around the
world:

Away, away with fife and drum !
Here we come, here we come !
We're looking for something to put on the fritz,
The piratical class of nineteen six.

1911. History of the Class of 1906. Yale College. Volume II.   Reunion of the 1906 class.


See here: https://books.google.com/books?id=0nCFZEABzW0C

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 04:12 PM

The six U.S. armored cruisers mentioned by Thomas were launched in 1906.

Four more - North Carolina, California, Montana, and South Dakota - were commissioned in 1908.

So the most likely date for Thomas's verses appears to be 1906-1907.

From the same period comes this information: At Yale in 1906 was sung a version of "that...song...reputed to have been sung by Uncle Sam’s tars on their cruise round the world [in 1907-1909]:

“Away, away with fife and drum!
Here we come, here we come!
We’re looking for something to put on the fritz,
The piratical class of nineteen six.”

(Edwin R. Embree, "History of the Class of 1906, Yale College" [1911])

None of this says much, about the obviously related "North Atlantic Squadron." Now associated with the Royal Canadian Navy, it seems just as likely to have begun in the Air Force, in light of its various air force allusions. The RCAF No. 10 (Army Co-operation) Squadron (redesignated "No. 400 Squadron" in 1941), is said to have been nicknamed the "North Atlantic Squadron," but possibly only after the song had become popular.

Hopkins avers that the song was "well established in the Canadian military" by the 1930s. Well, maybe.

The USN "Book of Navy Songs" (1926, 1930) has seven humorous but perfectly respectable stanzas of "The Old Destroyer Squadron," to the tune of "Away with Rum" or "The Armored Cruiser Squadron." In form these resemble Prentice Strong's 1912 Army National Guard version (above).

Niles, Moore, and Walgren's sometimes reliable "The Songs My Mother Never Taught Me" (1929) includes a single stanza of "The Armored Cruiser Squadron," to the tune of "Away With Rum," and "sung very often [during WW1] by the old-timers in the U.S. Navy:

"Away, away, with sword and drum,
Here we come, full or rum,
Looking for some one to put on the bum,
The Armored Cruiser Squadron."

The verse presumably came from co-author and USN veteran Douglas Moore
(later a prominent American composer.)

Niles et al. also give a "Northern Bombing Squadron," from Lieutenant Beauregard Sweeney, USN:

"Oh, the F 2 A and the H-S one,
The finest ships you ever did see,
Flew across the sea to be
In the Northern Bombing Squadron.

Away, away, with sword and drum,
Here we come, full of rum,
Looking for something to put on the bum,
The Naval Aviation."

Interestingly, the NBS never used F2 or HS-1 flying boats.

Hopkins's (again respectable) version of "The Old Destroyer Squadron"
is mostly made up of stanzas from the USN version. Clearly from WW2,   Hopkins's "West Atlantic Squadron" is equally tame. He mentions the existence of a WW1 "Heavy Cruiser Squadron" too, but offers no text or reference.

To "put someone or something on the bum" became a widely used idiom shortly before 1900.

No "North Atlantic Squadron" seems ever to have existed in the Canadian Navy. The USN "North Atlantic Squadron," however, existed from 1865-1902; in 1902 the name was changed to "North Atlantic Fleet."

My theory: Separated from the rest of the song, Harrigan and Brahms's "Away with Rum" chorus became widely popular in the late 19th century. A version of it (with "put on the bum" and "North Atlantic Squadron") evolved around 1900 and was widely sung in the USN by 1906.

Then,some time before 1939, the American "North Atlantic Squadron" chorus, possibly with ribald verses already, was adopted in Canada and vastly expanded.

The phrase "put on the bum" was easily parodied.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 04:33 PM

Never trust Wikipedia, even in its improved version.

The U.S. North Atlantic Squadron was in existence in 1861 - long before the song, however.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 07:09 PM

"We're coming, we're coming, a brave little band,
On the safe side of temperance we've taken our stand;
We don't like tobacco. Do you know what we think?
The boys who will use it are quite sure to drink."

May, 1889. Home Mission Monthly. Vol. 3, No. 7. Published by
the Woman's Executive Committee of Home Missions of the Presbyterian
Church.

The opening header poem for the second part of a short story.


See here: https://books.google.com/books?id=INtMAAAAMAAJ