Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 07:09 PM

"We're coming, we're coming, a brave little band,
On the safe side of temperance we've taken our stand;
We don't like tobacco. Do you know what we think?
The boys who will use it are quite sure to drink."

May, 1889. Home Mission Monthly. Vol. 3, No. 7. Published by
the Woman's Executive Committee of Home Missions of the Presbyterian
Church.

The opening header poem for the second part of a short story.


See here: https://books.google.com/books?id=INtMAAAAMAAJ

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 04:33 PM

Never trust Wikipedia, even in its improved version.

The U.S. North Atlantic Squadron was in existence in 1861 - long before the song, however.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 04:12 PM

The six U.S. armored cruisers mentioned by Thomas were launched in 1906.

Four more - North Carolina, California, Montana, and South Dakota - were commissioned in 1908.

So the most likely date for Thomas's verses appears to be 1906-1907.

From the same period comes this information: At Yale in 1906 was sung a version of "that...song...reputed to have been sung by Uncle Sam’s tars on their cruise round the world [in 1907-1909]:

“Away, away with fife and drum!
Here we come, here we come!
We’re looking for something to put on the fritz,
The piratical class of nineteen six.”

(Edwin R. Embree, "History of the Class of 1906, Yale College" [1911])

None of this says much, about the obviously related "North Atlantic Squadron." Now associated with the Royal Canadian Navy, it seems just as likely to have begun in the Air Force, in light of its various air force allusions. The RCAF No. 10 (Army Co-operation) Squadron (redesignated "No. 400 Squadron" in 1941), is said to have been nicknamed the "North Atlantic Squadron," but possibly only after the song had become popular.

Hopkins avers that the song was "well established in the Canadian military" by the 1930s. Well, maybe.

The USN "Book of Navy Songs" (1926, 1930) has seven humorous but perfectly respectable stanzas of "The Old Destroyer Squadron," to the tune of "Away with Rum" or "The Armored Cruiser Squadron." In form these resemble Prentice Strong's 1912 Army National Guard version (above).

Niles, Moore, and Walgren's sometimes reliable "The Songs My Mother Never Taught Me" (1929) includes a single stanza of "The Armored Cruiser Squadron," to the tune of "Away With Rum," and "sung very often [during WW1] by the old-timers in the U.S. Navy:

"Away, away, with sword and drum,
Here we come, full or rum,
Looking for some one to put on the bum,
The Armored Cruiser Squadron."

The verse presumably came from co-author and USN veteran Douglas Moore
(later a prominent American composer.)

Niles et al. also give a "Northern Bombing Squadron," from Lieutenant Beauregard Sweeney, USN:

"Oh, the F 2 A and the H-S one,
The finest ships you ever did see,
Flew across the sea to be
In the Northern Bombing Squadron.

Away, away, with sword and drum,
Here we come, full of rum,
Looking for something to put on the bum,
The Naval Aviation."

Interestingly, the NBS never used F2 or HS-1 flying boats.

Hopkins's (again respectable) version of "The Old Destroyer Squadron"
is mostly made up of stanzas from the USN version. Clearly from WW2,   Hopkins's "West Atlantic Squadron" is equally tame. He mentions the existence of a WW1 "Heavy Cruiser Squadron" too, but offers no text or reference.

To "put someone or something on the bum" became a widely used idiom shortly before 1900.

No "North Atlantic Squadron" seems ever to have existed in the Canadian Navy. The USN "North Atlantic Squadron," however, existed from 1865-1902; in 1902 the name was changed to "North Atlantic Fleet."

My theory: Separated from the rest of the song, Harrigan and Brahms's "Away with Rum" chorus became widely popular in the late 19th century. A version of it (with "put on the bum" and "North Atlantic Squadron") evolved around 1900 and was widely sung in the USN by 1906.

Then,some time before 1939, the American "North Atlantic Squadron" chorus, possibly with ribald verses already, was adopted in Canada and vastly expanded.

The phrase "put on the bum" was easily parodied.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 01:26 PM

And that other song to the nameless air reputed to have
been sung by Uncle Sam's tars on their cruise around the
world:

Away, away with fife and drum !
Here we come, here we come !
We're looking for something to put on the fritz,
The piratical class of nineteen six.

1911. History of the Class of 1906. Yale College. Volume II.   Reunion of the 1906 class.


See here: https://books.google.com/books?id=0nCFZEABzW0C

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 20 Apr 25 - 01:14 PM

[ hand written manuscript image]

An early draft of the song "The Armored Cruiser Squadron". From a
scrapbook of Rear Adm. Chauncey Thomas, USN-USNA class of 1871.
(transcript follows.)

The West Virginia and M.D.
Colorado and Pennsy See.
Are just about the proper choice.
For our Armored Cruiser Squadron.

The Washington & Tennessee
The Path-Finders--said to be
Can't hold a chandlestick to we
As an Armored Cruiser Squadron

Away, Away with Fife and Drum
Here we come
Full of rum.
Trying to put someone on the bum

Prior to 1912 when Chauncey Thomas resigned. He died in 1919.   From the book
Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships: Historical sketches p.260. Handwritten
manuscript reproduced.


See here: Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships: Historical sketches

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 06:57 PM

Hence the WW2 and after Air Force song, "Throw a nickel on the grass,/ Save a fighter pilot's ass!'

Which makes no sense without the drum/bum antecedent.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 06:54 PM

Salvation Army Song

We're coming, we're coming our brave little band
On the right side of temperance we'll now take our stand
We never use tobacco because we think
That a man who will smoke is likely to drink

Chorus:

Away, away with rum by gum
With rum by gum, with rum by gum
Away, away with rum by gum
The song of the Salvation Army

Well we never eat cookies because they have yeast
And one little bite makes man like a beast
Now can you imagine a bigger disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face

Chorus

Spoken:

I was hungry and they a gave me to eat.
        He was hungry and they gave him to eat.
I was thirsty and they gave me to drink
        He was thirsty and they gave him to drink
I was a sinner and they saved my soul.
        He was a sinner and they saved his soul.
Now all I do stand on this [bang] god-damned corner [bang] beating this [bang] god-damned [bang] drum.

Chorus

Well we never eat fruitcake because it has rum
And one little bite makes a man like a bum
Now can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he got tight.

Chorus

When you meet a folk singer you haven't any choice
But to sit there and listen while he proves he has no voice
And the most shocking thing to image by far
Is a girl with a G-string upon her guitar

Chorus

We never drink beer 'cause beer is beer
One little bottle puts you on your ear.
Can you imagine a worser thing
Than a man drinking beer and then starting to sing?

Chorus

Spoken:

If I had all the beer in the world I'd throw it in the river. Yay!!
If I had all the whisky in the world, I'd throw it in the river. Yay!!
If I had all the gin in the world, I'd throw it in the river. Yay!!

Brethren let us sing hymn number fifteen.

Sung:

Wade in the water.
Wade in the water, children
Wade in the water,
God's going to trouble the water.
[Slowly] Amen.

1962. Transcribed from a recording of Ash Alley Singers. Tucson, Arizona. A good performance.

The last part of the performance uses the song "Wade in the Water".

I have field collected a "testimonial" cante fable with a
chorus of "Salvation Army, Salvation Army, throw a nickel
on the drum save another drunken bum" which I believe is related.


Listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtwVN6wRL_U

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: GerryM
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 06:20 PM

With regards to the most recent posting of what might be termed the Queensland version, and for anyone not au courant with Australian slang, "Abo" is a derogatory term for Aboriginal, and "gin", also derived from Aboriginal, is a derogatory term for an Aboriginal woman.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 05:22 PM

THE SONG OF THE SALVATION ARMY

Chorus:

Away, away with rum by gum,
With rum by gum,
With rum by gum,
Away, away with rum by gum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

We cannot eat fruitcake, cause fruitcake's got rum,
One drop of rum turns a man to a bum,
Oh can you imagine a sorrier sight,
Than a man eating fruitcake till he is tight.

We cannot eat cookies, cause cookies have yeast,
And one taste of yeast turns a man to a beast,
Oh can you imagine a greater disgrace,
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face.

Away with Aboriginals, cos Abos have gins,
And one little gin turns a man to sin,
Oh can you imagine a sorrier sight,
Than a poor Abo bloke with no gin for the night.

Away with Tasmania cause Tassie has hops,
And one drop of hops and we call in the cops,
Oh can you imagine a greater delight,
Than the whole of Tasmania in the clink for the night.

ca. 1960. Queensland University (St. Lucia) Hockey Club Song Book. Undated Australian song book.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 19 Apr 25 - 04:24 PM

TEMPERANCE UNION

We're coming, we're coming, our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we do take our stand.
We don't use tobacco because we do think
That the people who use it are like to drink.

CHORUS: Away, away with rum by gum, with rum by gum, with rum by gum.
        Away, away with rum by gum
        It's the song of the temperance union.

We never eat fruitcake because it has rum
And one little bit turns a man to a bum,
Can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

CHORUS

We never eat cookies, they make them with yeast,
And one little bite turns a man into a beast.
Can you imagine such a sorry disgrace,
As a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

CHORUS

We never drink Pepsi, it's made from cocaine,
And you might as well shoot it right into your vein.
Can you imagine a sorrier bind,
Than rotting your teeth whit blowin' your mind?

CHORUS

We never drop tea 'cause it comes from a pot,
And that could be evil as likely as not,
We don't mind the taste, but it's really bad news,
To get busted for holding what Tom Lipton brews.

CHORUS

We don't step on grapes because that's making wine,
And one single stomp turns a man to a swine.
Can you imagine a fouler defeat,
Than a man getting stonkered by licking his feet?

CHORUS

Shun girls who are witty and pretty and kind,
There's nothing like love for corrupting your mind.
At least in our circle it just isn't done,
Our kids are adopted, we never have fun.

CHORUS

So drinking and eating and loving you see,
Are bound to destroy Spi-ri-tu-al-i-ty.
Our tastes are austere and our virtue is pure.
We don't have fun, but our honor is pure.

CHORUS

1980s. A Songbook of some Middle Kingdom Favorites. p.23.
Undated SCA [Society for Creative Anachronism] mimeographed songbook.
Some variant verses from a group with their own song traditions.


See here: http://www.calonsong.org/CalontirSongs/Songbook-MiddleKingdomFavorites.pdf

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Joe Offer
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 08:16 PM

As an ex-seminarian (8 years) and lifetime choir singer, I've always thought that the root of "Away With Rum" must be derived from a gospel song. But I haven't found it yet....

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 04:57 PM

To my ear, all three tunes - "Captain Jinks," the chorus of "Salvation Army Oh!" and the entirety of "The North Atlantic Squadron" - have strong resemblances, but they're not exactly the same.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 04:21 PM

Lighter, or anyone else that reads music, does the tune for
"The Salvation army, Oh!" match "Captain Jinks of the Horse Marines" ?


Salvation Army, Oh:
https://www.loc.gov/resource/music.mussm-sm1882-20303/?sp=2&st=image&r=-0.606,0.031,2.212,1.255,0


Captain Jinks:
https://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/collection/051/018


I know that later in the 20th century "Away with Rum" / "North Atlantic
Squadron" uses the "Captain Jinks" tune.   Does the original
"Salvation Army, Oh" song ?

Any help is appreciated.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 02:06 PM

Harrigan was also the lyricist of "Buffalo" (later called "The E-Ri-E Canal", 1873) and "The Regular Army O!" (1874).

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 18 Apr 25 - 12:57 PM

THE SALVATION ARMY, OH!
Copyright Secured 1882.

CAUTION.--All persons are warned from using this song under
penaldy of the law.
Words by Ed. Herrigan. Music by Dave Braham.
As sung bin E.d Harrigan's New Original LOcal Comedy, entitled
"McSorley's Inflation."

Music published by Wm. A. Pond & Co., N.Y. Will be sent by us
to any address Price 40 cents.

Come all ye creatures of woe begone,
Come join us and march along,
Join, oh, join the mighty throng
In the Salvation Army, oh!

CHORUS.
Away, away with rum and gum,
Hear the drum, come, oh, come!
The regular, proper lum-tum-tum
Is to join the army, oh!

New York City is run by two of the boys,
When they rattle their millions they make a big noise,
They own all the railroads and all of the land,
And tell all the public to go and be d----!
                        Away, away, etc.

Jonah lived inside of a whale,
In a little back room down by the tail,
Don't give it away, but he's out on bail,
And he's joined the Salvation Army, oh!
                        Away, away, etc.

Cleveland and Folger went out for a fight,
Cleveland hit Folger with all his might,
The winner he lives in Buffalo,
The loser has joined the Army, oh!
                        Away, away, etc.

Oscar Wilde came here for to show
His aesthetic taste, but it wasn't a go,
He's now reformed I'll have you to know,
And he's joined the Salvation Army, oh!
                        Away, away, etc.

Oh, now I've sung all I know
About the Salvation Army, oh!
I get a dollar for playing the drum,
And I'll drink it all in rum and gum.
                        Away, away, etc.

Undated (1880s). James F. Hoey's They are All Getting Stuck on My Shape Songster p. 44.

This gives a few extra ribald or irreverent verses that are in the sheet music.


See here: https://www.google.com/books/edition/James_F_Hoey_s_They_are_All_Getting_Stuck

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 06:18 PM

So the tune given "Captain Jinks of the Horse Marines" is the tune
I have heard for "Away, Away with Rum by Gum" / "North Atlantic Squadron".


Listen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmFD05b-kVo


Nice to have a name for that tune.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 04:54 PM

FIVE TROOPS OF THE SQUADRON,
(Tune—"Captain Jinks of the Horse Marines,")

Captain Vietor's troop is grand,
It likes to ride behind the band,
Perhaps that's way no horse will stand,
For E troop of the Squadron,

Chorus :
Away, away, now here we come,
Going some, chuck full of rum,
Looking for someone to put on the bum,
The five troops of the Squadron.

Captain Lull's social lights,
Sometimes drill on Thursday nights,
They'd rather skirmish at pink tea fights,
That F troop of the Squadron.

Captain Drowne can't get tight,
Though his troop drinks from morn to night,
They're always up in the morning bright,
That K troop of the Squadron.


VERSES OF 1912
(Words by Prentice Strong.)

Captain Townsend's troop is grand,
It marches right behind the band,
That may be why no horses stand,
For Troop One of A Squadron.

Captain Outerbridge's social lights,
They sometimes drill on Thursday nights,
They'd rather skirmish at pink tea fights,
In Troop Two of A Squadron.

Captain Wright can't get tight,
Though his troopers sit up and drink all night,
For they're always up in the morning bright*
In Troop Three of A Squadron.

Captain Olmsted's baby troop
He found one night in Stowe Phelps' stoop,
He nursed it through the measles and croup,
Into Troop Four of A Squadron.

Sergeant Sheldon's bunch of drunks,
Who carry machine guns in their trunks,
Will never be taken for holy monks—
The Gun Squad of A Squadron.


THE SONG OF THE COCAWAYS.

Away, away, with rum, by gum,
Here we come, here we come,
Away, away, with rum, by gum,
So Cockaway Tally-Ho !
(Repeat in ascending keys.)

June 14, 1930. Songs the Squadron Taught Me.    Connecting up
"away with rum" with a "squadron" but not the "North Atlantic Squadron".

See here: https://archive.org/details/1930songsthesquadrontaughtme/page/n5/mode/2up?q=%22full+of+rum%22

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Jack Horntip
Date: 16 Apr 25 - 03:47 PM

BILLY. No, no; fall into line. (Song; "The Salvation Army,
Oh!" Price 40 cents, obtainable of the publishers.)

BILLY.

Salvation Billy is my name;
To seek my fortune out West I came;
To make some money now is my game,
So I join the Salvation Army, Oh--

(Chorus.)
Away, away with rum by gum;
Here we come with fife and drum,
A regular sort of a "lum tum tum."
We belong to the Salvation Amry, Oh --

TRISS.

Our Army is small, as you can see;
There's only Billy, the Judge, and me,
But we holler and shout for the jubilee--
We're a dandy Salvation Army, Oh--

((Chorus.)

JUDGE.

I'm a funny old fakir, as you can see,
To be travelling around with this Ar-mi-ee;
I'm drunk from my head to the sole of my boots,
From handling so much of the laws statoots.

See here: T'riss; Or, Beyond the Rockies by Justin Adams. 1889

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Joe_F
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 09:48 PM

Here is another filker verse:

We never eat peaches, because they ferment,
And peaches will turn at the tiniest dent.
Oh, can you imagine a sorrier sight
Than a man drunk on peaches he thought were all right?

And here is one that I added a few years ago, for the Brits among us:

We shun Christmas pudding -- they souse it with brandy,
And one fiery bite turns a nice fellow randy.
If you think that's harmless, just contemplate this:
A man drunk on pudding might blow you a kiss.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: JennyO
Date: 25 Mar 18 - 09:04 PM

I decided to try and find the origins of this song, after seeing an episode of a 2012 Australian series, The Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries. The series is set in the 1920's and uses a lot of music from that period. The episode was called "Dead Man's Chest" and in a number of scenes, you see groups of angry ladies from a Temperance organisation waving placards and loudly denouncing the demon drink. The song, including a lot of verses, was sung at the end during the credits by Ange Takats, an Australian singer, and Greg Walker. It mentions the Temperance Union, rather than the Salvation Army, and it is described as 'trad', which got me wondering. I could probably find the words she sang somewhere with more research, but her version is not on YouTube, although there is a Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries Soundtrack album that can be bought or downloaded, including this song: Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries Soundtrack

Then I found another interesting page, which seems to take it back further - to 1882 in fact: The Jovial Crew

So it looks like the search might be getting even wider!

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Jun 12 - 11:17 AM

Thanks Folks - the search gets wider and older

Cheers

L i C#
in Millau, France

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Uke
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:29 AM

I was curious, so did another search on Google Books for "Away with rum", limiting it to books published between 1850 and 1940.


There's a hit from the 1915 edition of "Michigan's Favourite College Songs". Unfortunately, no preview.

Another relevant hit was from "Yale Sheffield Monthly", vol. 21, 1915. Snippet view. Here the song is mentioned by title in some kind of article.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Uke
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 05:54 PM

Haven't revisited this thread for some time, really interesting to see what's come up in the meantime.

Looks like 'Away with rum' was also printed in the 1919 edition of "Michigan's Favorite College Songs". Can see it listed on the contents page on Google Books, but only snippet view.

So that probably pushes it back another couple of years.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:33 PM

Away with rum, by gum, first appeared in print in 1921 in "Michigan's Favorite College Songs, according to Traditional Ballad Index.
They thank Jim Dixon for finding this reference.

Does this reference have an indication of whether it is based on Temperance Union or Salvation Army use?

(Perhaps explained somewhere above, but I have to go, and can't read the entire thread at this time,)

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:29 PM

Amos... I always 'thought' it was changed by someone who decided no one would know what the "Temperance Union" referred to. I heard Salvation Army several years earlier and then found a reference to "Temperance Union" as being the original. Can't tell you now...50 years later... where I saw that.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 01:16 PM

I am curious how this migrated from the WCTU to the Salvation Army. I learned the "Temperance Union" version around 1958 or so from Peter Hall, and haver sung it occasionally ever since. The SA version is a new twist to me. Of course, I could have the sequence backwards, historically.


A

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 11:08 AM

I'm not sure how I missed this 4 years ago.

The song has been around for many years, and is an obvious and easy one to add verses to...or change a few words when you forget exactly what was heard.

I heard it in Kansas in the early 60s, with the 'standard' tobacco, fruitcake, cookies and backrub verses...and soon after learned the "Temperance Union" title. Then, from somewhere this verse popped up, and 'our' little group in Kansas almost always ended with it.

♫"When you meet a folksinger, you haven't much choice,
But to sit there and listen while they prove they have no voice.
But the most shocking thing to imagine by faaaaarrr....
Is a girl with a G string upon her guitar."♫

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: r.padgett
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 04:46 AM

Been having a clear out and finally traced my Reprints from Out Volume 5 page 14

"The Salvation Army has always been fair game for 20th Century satirists ~~~~ Wobblies had nothing but contempt for the charitable hymn singing organisatio. Joe Hill's song "Pie in the Sky" was a direct response to Army groups who competed for street corners in teh struggle for men's souls and minds"

Joe Hill wrote

*And the Starvation Army they play and they sing and they clap and they pray,
Till they get all your coin on the drum, then theyll tell you when you're on the bum:

You will eat by and by in that glorious land above the sky,
Work and pray, live on hay, you'll get pie in the sky when you die*

A parody on Away with Rum, but which tune?
does it work?

3 main verses quoted tobacco, cookies and fruitcake with 6 extra verses of US origin

The Osmosis verse probably attributable to Mike Harding

Heard this song sung by Bert Cleaver (former Master of The Morris ring circa 1970) on Saturday and had not heard it live since Theresa Tooley some years ago. No other provenance stated in Reprints and other info sought!

Reprints from Sing Out6th print 1963 Oak Publications
Ray

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: GUEST,mert proctor
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 11:35 PM

The Armored Cruiser Squadron "Uke" above got two verses. Others were: The Maryland the Tennessee/the finest ships to sail the sea/they sailed around the Horn to be/in the armored cruiser squadron....The navigator's full of tar/he shoots the truck light for a star/then wonders where in the hell we are/in the armored cruiser squadron.

this song and other military ones were included in a book assembled and sold by the Field Artillery School at Ft. Sill, Okla., back in the 30's. It was a hand-held, narrow, stiff red paperback volume. I lost my ccpy years ago (lent). My dad was asst commandant of the school then.

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 01:42 PM

This song was the party piece of Eric Winter, Editor of "Sing" magazine, our equiv of "Sing Out", financed by the Workers' Musical Association which was one of the Marxist groups which jumped, inter alia, on to the 2nd [1950+] Folk Revival under auspices of such as Eric, John Hasted, Marxist physics professor at University College London (educ Winchester & New College Oxford!), et al. I met John's twin daughters last at a memorial party for Eric given by his wife Audrey, with whom I still exchange Xmas cards, when he died in 2002; John himself was also ill at the time & died soon after.

Anyhow, Eric probably learned the song from "Sing Out" & IIRC reprinted it in "Sing" c1960. He would always sing it to piano accompaniment provided by another guest at John Brunner's [sf writer & author of CND anthem The H-Bomb's Thunder] Hampstead (& later Somerset) parties; & it became popular on the London folk scene at the time. His version was pretty well analogous to most of those above: just the two verses, "We're coming...don't smoke tobacco" & "Never eat fruitcake for fruitcake has rum...Crumbs on his face".

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 12:36 PM

Sorry my mistake

L in C#

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 12:35 PM

Origins of a song below the line?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Origin: Away, Away with Rum, by Gum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 08:02 AM

Just rediscovered this old thread of mine.

Anything new?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 12:55 PM

The song certainly has evolved since 1921.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 04:45 AM

Thanks for the reminder about this brilliant old song - memories of Pete McGovern singing it in the Washhouse Folk Club in Liverpool around 1965.

Cheers

L in C

Subject: Lyr Add: AWAY WITH RUM (1913)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Apr 09 - 02:01 AM

From Michigan's Favorite College Songs edited by Roy Dickinson Welch, Earl Vincent Moore (Ann Arbor, Mich.: University Music House, 1921):

AWAY WITH RUM

1. Away, away with rum by gum
Here we come. Here we come.
Away, away with rum by gum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

2. We put Joe Parkers on the bum,
On the bum, on the bum.
We put Joe Parkers on the bum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

3. Put your nickels on the drum
On the drum, on the drum.
Put your nickels on the drum,
The song of the Salvation Army.

---

Song is copyright 1913 by University Music House, Ann Arbor, Michigan. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 01:49 AM

Thanks Bob.

I have a very small collection of those kind of song books. To call it a collection is to exaggerate, I have 3 or 4, but they are fascinating and throw up some good songs.

I keep meaning to re-read the whole of this thread and try to sum it up. But today the sun shines so it wont be today.

Cheers

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 06:42 AM

Les and Uke,

I haven't done a detailed song-by-song comparison, but it looks at a glance as if the Blue Ox Song Book may have been a partial borrowing from the earliest versions of the IOCA [International Outing Club Association] Song Fest, which was circulating perhaps in the late 1930s, certainly by the early 40s, and endured in later editions under the editorship of Dick and Beth Best into the early 1960s.

We were all doing songbooks in those years. College students in dorms and out on the trail were singing scads of ski bum, hiking, and general party songs, traditional folk, oldtime pop, and lots of parodies thereof. (No radio & TV for college students in those days -- they had to make their own entertainment, and anything was better than studying.) This was a very active movement in Europe as well - source of such gems as "I Love to Go a-Wandering" and its parody "I Hate to Go a-Wandering."

That in turn was part of the larger ferment that was breaking loose from the work of folklorists and educators, which resulted in many folk and folk-like songs becoming part of school songbooks, plus numbers of early folksingers like J J Niles, Burl Ives, Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie et al and publication of books by Sandburg, the Lomaxes, etc., so the songs were around and being actively sung, especially by those in their teens and twenties.

Young singers felt the need for songbooks to learn and sing from and circulate songs. So on campuses here and there they put together ad hoc collections, passed them out at sings. The IOCA Song Fest had become a classic by then, and was available in stacks for purchase through outing clubs, but we all knew hundreds more songs not included there, and issued them in mimeograph songbooks like the 1950s "Crud 'n Corruption" which circulated among New England hikers -- barely readable, but chock full of good songs (not bawdy songs, by the way, despite its title, just shoals of folksongs, ski songs, novelties and so on).

That's a capsule history of the milieu that produced the Blue Ox Song Book and many another like it. A good find, and a relatively early example of its kind.

Bob

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 06 May 08 - 07:57 AM

Thanks Uke I will do that

Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:08 PM

Hi Les, no I don't know anything much about it - just what can be gleaned from the pages and the website. It looks like a homemade song book, probably an edition of 25 or less (?), kind of an underground folk tradition all its own. You could drop a line to the website owner John Patrick and ask him about it.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 05 May 08 - 02:41 AM

Thanks Uke, that book is truly amazing. Can you tell us more about its origin?

Cheers
Les

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 04 May 08 - 09:36 PM

There's this version called 'The Salvation Army Song' from the 1947 homemade Blue Ox Song Book.


It goes:

THE SALVATION ARMY SONG

We're coming! We're coming! Our brave little band,
On the right side of temperance we now take our stand.
We don't chew tobacco- because we do think
That the people who do so are likely to drink.

We never eat fruitcake; it's chuck full of rum,
And the least little bit puts a man on the bum.
Have you ever seen a more horrible sight
Than a man eating fruitcake until he gets tight?

Have you ever seen a more public disgrace
Than a man in the gutter with crumbs on his face?

Away! Away with rum, by gum!
With rum, by gum! with rum, by gum!
Away! Away with rum, by gum!
Is the song of the Salvation Army.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,Willliam Hite
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 07:28 PM

Kinloch of Kinloch is the tune Robert Burns used for his stunningly beautiful song "Sweetest May".

I shall post it when I get home.

It is on the Linn Complete Burns set sung by John Moran, I think

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:35 PM

Here's another clue in the 'Away with Rum'-'North Atlantic Squadron' tune puzzle.

As posted above, 'North Atlantic Squadron' was published in 1931 in the book "Mud and Stars" where the tune was given as 'The Armormed Cruiser Squadron' or 'Away with Rum'.

According to the book "Mess Night Traditions" (2007, Charles J. Gibowicz), p.76, the 'Armored Cruiser Squadron' was connected to the banning of rum rations in the US Navy by teetotalling Josephus Daniels, Secretary of the Navy, in mid-1914:

"For one of the [New York] Tribune's cartoons, some verses had been composed to fit an old song of the times and these accompanied the cartoon. The verses became a hit and were popularly sung throughout the fleet.

Away, away with sword and drum,
Here we come, full of rum,
Looking for someone to put on the bum,
In the Armored Cruiser Squadron.

Josephus Daniels is a goose,
If he thinks he can induce
Us to drink his damn grape juice
In the Armored Cruiser Squadron."

(This book is available on Google Books.)


From this piece of information and the lyrics it might be deduced that 'Away with Rum' (complete with rollicking chorus tune) predates the 'Armored Cruiser'/'North Atlantic Squadron' songs. After Harrigan and Brahan wrote the original in 1882 it probably changed tunes and went into oral tradition - Randolph's informant was probably correct in dating 'Away with Rum' to around 1900. Certainly by 1914 it was being adapted and parodied itself.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:00 PM

A great lady from Fresno, CA, Linda Rau, performed that fine piece of music on one of the very first evenings I ever spent in our local coffee house, "The Renaissance," circa 1958-60. She also did another iconic masterpiece,"Logger Lover," as I recall. Having learned the song from Linda (and having embellished it freely) I am still asked to do "The Salvation Army Song" by the occasional odd person (emphasize odd).

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Flash Company
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:56 AM

Hi Les.. Malt Shovels in Altrincham in the years when it was a music pub.
Frank's response to 'What key is this in?' was usually 'Yale!'
The group would start playing, Frank would start singing, Kenny would laugh and change key to suit Frank, leaving the rest of them floundering. Happy Days!

FC

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: vectis
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:51 AM

I can't remember when I was told it was a 1920s song or by whom. The date is the only thing that stuck in what passes for my mind.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 12:27 AM

This verse

"Oh! We never send clothes to be dry cleaned or pressed,
'Cos ether and alcohol are used in the quest."

Has the possibility of some scientific dating - due to the technical nature of the 'dry cleaning process'. The ' 'dry cleaning' may have been been a 'home done' process - the gradual tightening of the free availability of ether and 'untreated' alcohol' would be a note. Of course, if it is just satirical, this may not be relevant anyway.

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 05:19 PM

Here's another piece of the puzzle:

One of the posts near the start of this thread mentions that 'The North Atlantic' might derive from 'The Old Destroyer Squadron'. A google search has turned up this - The Old Destroyer Squadron - from the 1931 book 'Mud and Stars - An Anthology of World War Songs and Poetry (ed. Dorothea York), pp.41-42. It was reprinted from an earlier book called 'The Book of Navy Songs', first published in 1926 by the Trident Society and the US Naval Academy at Annapolis. Here is the song in a later reprint, copyrighted to 1926, with tune (pp.40-41): The Old Destroyer Squadron (1926)

Most importantly, the tune is given by York as 'The Armored Cruiser Sqadron' or 'Away with Rum'! Meaning that 'Away with Rum' (with the popular chorus tune) goes back to 1926 at least...

(BTW: The google book links I've made don't seem to link to the specific pages, but I've given the numbers so it should be easy enough).

Subject: RE: Origin - Away away with rum
From: Uke
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

This is turning out to be a truly excellent thread.

Thanks Joe for the verse tune from 'Sing Out' - it differs quite markedly from the DT version. Whereas the chorus part aligns pretty closely with 'North Atlantic Squadron'.

Bob, thanks for your detective work! Here is a link to the sheet music for the 1882 song by Ed Harrigan and Dave Brahan, Salvation Army.