BS: Who would Kirk vote for???

Subject: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:23 PM

Who would the greatest starship captain in the Universe vote for if he were voting in the 2008 election? Whaddya think? And what about Spock and "Bones"? Whaddya think?

Who would Kirk vote for?

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:33 PM

Spock would probably say it's illogical to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Emma B
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:35 PM

sorry LH but that's never William Shatner - his acting style is far too animated :)

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:36 PM

Are Kirk, Spock, and Bones aware that the United States government is in the control of surgically altered Ferengi?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:45 PM

Apparently not, Don! But I'm sure they will figure it out before the end of the episode. Dare we hope that they will mount a rescue mission?

(The voice acting for Shatner overemphasizes the "pauses between words" bit. Actually, Shatner tends to run rapidly through a phrase...then briefly pause...then stretch a phrase out...then rapidly through another phrase. He does...not.... pause....between...each...and...every....word!)

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:45 PM

Nobody Knows the Tribbles I've Seen ♫

Picnic at Hanging Chads, will be as nothing compared to the Clinton/ Obama, 'Dream ticket', that's coming to a ballot box near you.

G

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 12:58 PM

Proof!

Before surgery.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 01:03 PM

LOL!!!! I KNEW it!

The wonderful thing about hired mercenary soldiers (like the American "contractors" in Iraq and stateside) is they will do anything for you and kill anyone for you...as long as you pay them well. They have no scruples whatsoever. Such people are perfect to work with Ferengi.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Ernest
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 01:08 PM

I suppose "Clinton" would sound to much like "Klingon" for his taste...

<..>

Ernest

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM

I'd vote for Ohura.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 02:48 PM

I vote for 7 of 9.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:05 PM

Me, I'd vote for James T. Kirk for president. Who to pick as his running mate would be a bit tricky. Maybe Uhura? Maybe Sulu? Maybe Spock, but I'd rather see him as Secretary of State. His cool, calm logic would be the perfect counterpoint to Kirk's more dramatic and charismatic approach. McCoy would, of course, be put in charge of bringing in a universal national health care plan....totally free and for all citizens...plus legal visitors. That would be in line with the Federation charter.

The Prime Directive would be applied to foreign affairs. NO first attacks on anyone under any conditions. No wars to be launched against other nations because of a criminal act purportedly committed by some secret terrorist cell. That would be a police matter, not a pretext for war.

No one to be imprisoned without a formal charge. No one to be held without normal trial and legal representation. No torture of prisoners.

Military action to be initiated only by the legal armed forces...not by hired mercenaries. Domestic police actions only by the police...not by hired mercenary contractors.

Money to be phased out and replaced by a citizen's new constitutional rights, such as:

1. free education up to whatever level the citizen shows capability and willingness and interest to attain to.

2. full employment opportunities for all...that being the RIGHT to employment...under the condition that the citizen again shows capability, willingness, and adequate performance on the job. Jobs would be provided, naturally, in those areas where they are most needed, first of all...and after that in all variety of other areas, depending on people's interests and abilities.

3. all the necessities of life (as well as entertainment, etc) to be provided to all on an equal and completely free basis, through a non-monetary system of equal access.

4. the complete elimination thereby of poverty.

5. complete equality of gender, race, and religious choice (including of course, those who choice is to have no religion).

6. higher positions in society to be attained solely through personal achievement, and not on any other basis. The reward of those higher positions being not a monetary or material one, but an experiential one. (It's a far more inspiring experience to be at a managerial or command level than it is to unplug dranes every day...therefore the satisfaction of working one's way up in a society where no one needs money is completely obvious. The experience itself is the satisfaction.)

7. No capital punishment.

****

And that's your new Federation society. It would take about a generation to phase it in in the USA, because the Ferengi have been running things up till now and it would take at least a generation to undo the great psychological damage they have done to the population. It would take some time for people to realize that cooperation is far superior to competition if you want to attain a good result, and it would also take time to replace the present welfare mentality (passive) with a genuinely motivated community mentality (active).

The elimination of poverty would be step 1 in undoing the damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Sorcha
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:15 PM

Nice dream, Hawk. Very nice.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Emma B
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:28 PM

Well I'm afraid Star Trek was 'fantasy' - but yes - it would be nice :)

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:46 PM

"Librarians are the secret Masters Of The Universe. Don't ever piss one off."
                                 -- Spider Robinson, SF author

By leaving librarians out of your fantasy you have pissed all of them off. You might want to be very, very careful from now on.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Emma B
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 04:50 PM

left out? OOOK!

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: gnu
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 06:29 PM

Garge, me old buddy! Ye said, "...under the condition that the citizen again shows capability, willingness, and adequate performance on the job..." That surely fucks Shane and Dale! And a whack a the lads up country. I'll try ta spin some control fer ye, but ya know it ain't gonna be easy. Ya got any champagne funds ta cover the cost?

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:05 PM

Interesting vision of the future, Little Hawk.

There were a bunch of nuts and wackos back in the 1930s—scientists, engineers, technicians of various kinds—who had worked out a system, not of the usual kind of currency and trade, but of what they called "energy credits."

They had noticed that one of the precipitating factors in the Great Depression was that American industry had produced more in the way of consumer goods, particularly durable goods, than the existing population—and the export market—needed or wanted to buy. Warehouses full of unsold consumer goods. Well, they sure weren't goint to give it away, were they? So it stayed in the warehouses. Since sales were down, many industries began to lose money, so they laid a whole bunch of people off. Result? Soon people who might actually want to buy the stuff couldn't afford to. Well, one thing let to another. The stock market crashed (a result of the situation, not the cause) and the rest is history.

This bunch of technological wackos started crunching numbers (something they were good at) and came up with quite an interesting economic system. Which, they claim, would actually work. Nobody believed them. When they tried to explain the system, everybody considered them a bunch of nut-balls, scientific credentials notwithstanding.

In the sixties, one of my drinking-buddies was Jerry Pournelle, who shortly thereafter moved to California and soon became one of the country's better known science fiction writers (collaborated with Larry Niven to turn out such things as The Mote in God's Eye, Lucifer's Hammer, Footfall, and a couple of others). Jerry and I went to a lecture given by one of the members of this group of wackos—whom everyone thought had faded out of existence, along with the Wobblies and the dinosaurs. As the guy talked, Jerry made rapid notes. Then, after the lecture, he asked the guy a lot of pointed questions.

On our way home, as was our wont, Jerry and I stopped off at Seattle's infamous Blue Moon Tavern for a couple of brewskis, and Jerry said, "It would work! Sounds crazy as hell, but it would work!"

Gene Roddenberry was acquainted with this economic system, and this was the kind of society that he envisioned as being in place in the world of Star Trek.

I hesitate to mention what the system is called (no, not "socialism"), because 99.44% of the people who even recognize it will immediately hoot:   "That's insane! It'll never work!!"

Don Firth

P. S. Actually, in the system that exists now, the Powers That Be would never allow it! They'd fight it tooth and nail! Why? Because once you get through the usual prejudices, hang-ups, and unquestioned assumptions, you suddenly realize that—damn all, it would work! Might take a little minor tweaking from the system they figured out in the Thirties, but it would work!

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Feb 08 - 09:48 PM

Actually, the system I am speaking of didn't just come into existence in the 1930s. It got going in 1918, and in the process of their number-crunching, they predicted the Depression. But, of course, nobody paid attention because they were nothing but a bunch of wackos. Wackos with slide-rules, but wackos nontheless.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:16 AM

Very interesting, Don.

I think if people were born into a society where they number one were living free of problems like poverty...and where there was no financial impediment to them going as far in education as they wanted to and were capable of...I think that most young people would respond very well to such a situation. They would realize that there was nothing standing in their way from realizing their dreams except their own laziness. There would not be a sense of unfairness in that everyone would have the same start, and the same chances to move forward.

It would be wonderful.

Remove endemic poverty and gross material inequality and you have removed the basic causes of most crime and social disfunction.

A society based on the Ferengi approach (greed and selfishness as basic motivators) leads eventually to disaster...ecologically, morally, politically, and socially. A society based on what Roddenberry depicted in Star Trek leads to democracy, freedom, peace, and tremendous advancement in human affairs at just about every level imaginable.

In the world that Rodenberry created, they simply had to come up with "outside" enemies like the Klingons, the Romulans, etc to provide the usual exciting storylines with conflicts...because the society within the Federation itself quite naturally found itself at peace, since it was not based on competition, but on cooperation...not win/lose, but win/win scenarios for its entire population.

That's brilliant. That's a civilization worthy of the name.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:34 AM

"Who would Kirk vote for???

Who could possibly give a shit?   Well, I suppose the load of wankers on this thread which is filled with some of the most outlandish bullshit from some of the truly great Mudcat bullshit purveyeors.

Simply stated, Kirk would vote for himself so he could descend into the office and become a the first Presidential voyeur, watching Winona Ryder wipe her ass with Dachshunds.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:53 AM

Hey! We don't have commercial breaks on this thread. Go crawl back under your rock, you son of a broke-dick mamalucca. You need to talk to the Foul Owl and get straightened out, buster.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Ernest
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 11:30 AM

Besides that: Weimaraners have softer hair.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: freightdawg
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:08 PM

Sorry to report, cap'n, but in New Mexico none of them could vote.

Kirk would strike up a conversation with one of our southwestern beauties, and before he even got to the sign-in table they would be off to the nearest hotel...

Spock would attempt a mind-meld with Gov. Richardson, and the pure Klingon viciousness would paralyze the poor Vulcan...

Bones would realize that half of the people on the voter rolls are dead, and would spend all day trying to revive them. By the time he realized that most of them have already been *buried*, it would be too late to get back in line...

Scotty would get side-tracked (pardon the pun) by trying to fix the Rail Runner train between Albuquerque and Santa Fe, and would throw himself in the anti-matter tube once he realized how broke it really is...

Checkov, Uhura, and Sulu are, unfortunately, just the wrong minority types to count in NM - they would be told by the Secretary of State that without a photo id they will not be allowed into the polling place.

"prepare the photon torpedoes"

Freightdawg

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 12:48 PM

Is there such a thing as an intergalactic absentee ballot?

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Bill D
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 06:34 PM

Yes...in order to Dieboldly go where no man has voted before.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Greg B
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 10:59 PM

He'd French kiss Hilary, then turn around and vote for McCain.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Riginslinger
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 11:01 PM

The Troglodytes, would they be given a vote, and if so, who would they vote for?

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Feb 08 - 11:12 PM

Klingons would unquestionable vote for McCain.

Say, anyone tried those Weimie-Burgers? They're delicious.

Subject: RE: BS: Who would Kirk vote for???
From: Mrrzy
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 07:01 PM

I said YEARS ago that when we ended up in space, we'd be the Ferengi!