Origins: Three Foot seam

Subject: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 17 Feb 08 - 11:46 PM

learned this song from 2 folks from the Shellback chorus - just recorded it with the Johnson Girls and looking for more background info -- and origins of the song
it has been recorded by Glenn and Vera Ashley and Anne Price.

It is purportedly a union song from the 1850s, but I'm not certain of that --

the chorus is:

working in a 3 foot seam, well I'll tell you boys that life is not a dream
there's no joy to be found when you're two miles underground
And you're working in a 3 foot seam

verses:
Don't you think they're making you a gift
When they pay a bloody pittance for a shift
and you're sweating out your soul and for every ton of coal
you've a ton of dirt and muck you have to shift

Up above the ground the weather may be fine
but you're stuck down where the sun don't ever shine
You're crawling like a rat and in your heart you're wishing that
you were any place except down in the mine

bad conditions have prevailed for far too long
so join the union boys, you'll never be far wrong
together we can tell, the bosses go to hell
for the union voice is many thousands strong.


So, if anyone knows where/when this song originates, I would be happy to hear about it.

Thanks,

Joy

digging as always

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 12:59 AM

I'd guess that it's a modern song, Joy. The language seems modern, and 1850 is a tad too early for a union song.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 03:16 AM

See also the earlier discussion Three Foot Seam (from Gary & Vera Aspey)

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 08:15 AM

Hi Jon - that was my thought as well, though the only info I have ever found on this is that it was written at the time the Lancashire Miners' union was being formed (1890s) - though some said 1860s or earlier-- it does seem more modern to me --

the link to the other thread has the same info as I already have -- tho my guess is since there appear to be no other recordings till Anne's and Steve's in the past couple of years (we all got the song from the same source, the Shellbacks folks on a folk music weekend, - just took me a long time to get it recorded) that the song origin info all comes from the earlier Gary & Vera Ashley recording (1970s)

Still trying to find another source -- but no luck yet

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 18 Feb 08 - 08:16 AM

Sorry - Greg and Very Aspey - it's early!

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 04:47 PM

OK, that's Vera -- a ming is a terrible thing to waste -- any other comments, thoughts or info out there?

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: GUEST,highlandman
Date: 19 Feb 08 - 05:10 PM

No comment on the wasted "ming"... get some sleep, Joy.

I used to work in the coal industry. It was widely mechanized (mechanised for you UK folks) starting around 1880. The first mechanical scoop was sold in the 1860s. The unioniz(s?)ation effort didn't really take hold (in the US at least) until much later.
The juxtaposition of manual mining imagery with the more modern language and the union references makes me suppose that it was an older song that got re-tooled into a union recruiting song.
I don't know any specifics about the song, just throwing some historical dates together and drawing some very shaky conclusions.

Oh, and it definitely doesn't sound like an American miners' song. I don't recall ever hearing anyone in a US mine refer to "dirt and muck", for one example, nor use the term "bloody." Again, just an impression; maybe it will help place it (or at least rule out some unlikely possibilities).

-Glenn

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: nutty
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 03:40 AM

Both Steve Suffett and Anne Price have recorded the song in recent years and have considered it to be traditional - which it possibly is.

However I would suggest getting in touch with Gary and Vera (if you can )as it is possible they may now know more about the song.

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Feb 08 - 04:47 AM

Suffet and Price both got it (at one or more removes) from the Aspeys, as mentioned earlier. Their immediate source(s) are named in the earlier discussion (see my link). I'd be very surprised if this isn't a modern composition, but we can only guess at the moment.

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 07:46 AM

Hi Malcolm - Anne Price and I heard it at the same time - on a Folk Music Society of NY weekend the Shellback Chorus attended - and two of the group sang it -- Anne and I promptly stole it and she managed to record it first - though I've been singing it with the Jgirls since a week after I first heard it. Steve Suffet got it from Anne. We all run pretty much in the same circles -- and happily nick songs where we can. The three recordings will likely be quite different -- and all worth the listening.

Hi Highlandman -- yeah, that's what we've been able to suss out so far -- Americans not using "bloody"? I use it all the time! Of course I've spent tons of time in the UK (though not in the last 2 years) -- hope to be back soon.

Subject: RE: Origins: Three Foot seam
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Feb 08 - 01:32 PM

A number of three foot seams worked in UK and in North America.
Canadians immediately think of the 3-ft. seam at Springhill (more than one ballad about it).
In UK, historically the first was the famous three foot anthracite seam near Castlecorner, first mined in 1640, but there were others.

Also see poem by Robling, "Goodbye to the Mines." A three foot seam is featured in it.

The song mentioned here is probably modern (See Malcolm's link).