BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race

Subject: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:40 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Ralph Nader on Sunday announced a fresh bid for the White House, criticizing the top contenders as too close to big business and dismissing the possibility that his third-party candidacy could tip the election to Republicans.

The longtime consumer advocate is still loathed by many Democrats who accuse him of costing Al Gore the 2000 election.

Nader said most people are disenchanted with the Democratic and Republican parties due to a prolonged Iraq war and a shaky economy. He also blamed tax and other corporate-friendly policies under the Bush administration that he said have left many lower- and middle-class people in debt.

"You take that framework of people feeling locked out, shut out, marginalized, disrespected," he said. "You go from Iraq, to Palestine/Israel, from Enron to Wall Street, from Katrina to the bungling of the Bush administration, to the complicity of the Democrats in not stopping him on the war, stopping him on the tax cuts."

Nader, who turns 74 later this week, announced his candidacy on NBC's "Meet the Press."

In a later interview with The Associated Press, he rejected the notion of himself as a spoiler candidate, saying the electorate will not vote for a "pro-war John McCain." He also predicted his campaign would do better than in 2004, when he won just 0.3 percent of the vote as an independent.

"This time we're ready for them," said Nader of the Democratic Party lawsuits that kept him off the ballot in some states.

Democratic candidates Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton quickly sought to portray Nader's announcement as having little impact.

"Obviously, it's not helpful to whomever our Democratic nominee is. But it's a free country," said Clinton, who called Nader's announcement a "passing fancy."

Obama dismissed Nader as a perennial presidential campaigner. "He thought that there was no difference between Al Gore and George Bush and eight years later I think people realize that Ralph did not know what he was talking about," Obama added.

Republican Mike Huckabee welcomed Nader into the race.

"I think it always would probably pull votes away from the Democrats, not the Republicans," the former Arkansas governor said on CNN.

Nader said Obama's and Clinton's lukewarm response was not surprising given that both political parties typically treat third-party candidates as "second-class citizens." Nader said he will decide in the coming days whether to run as an independent, Green Party candidate or in some other third party.

Pointing a finger at Republicans, he described McCain as a candidate for "perpetual war" and said he welcomed the support of Republican conservatives "who don't like the war in Iraq, who don't like taxpayer dollars wasted, and who don't like the Patriot Act and who treasure their rights of privacy."

"If the Democrats can't landslide the Republicans this year, they ought to just wrap up," Nader added.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 06:41 PM

Bobert, don't you ever say I never gave you nothin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:20 PM

Without a party, how could he do much of anything?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:33 PM

Now is the time for that great Ronald Reagan quote---sounds better with the voice---

"...there you go again".   Nader insists on screwing things up.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:38 PM

How sad everyone can only imagine that the media driven horse race, and not the process of airing views on issues, as the point of our increasingly undemocratic voting process.

He isn't in this to win the horse race. He is in it to give voice to the voiceless, to have a platform for bringing important issues to the forefront that are now locked out and being ignored.

He is picking up the torch left lying in the road by Kucinich and Edwards.

He is running for all kinds of reasons, but not to win the horse race.

For the love of god, this democracy is about far more than the bloody race and winner take all.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:49 PM

Somebody put him out of our misery!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 07:54 PM

Well, we are all for **NOBLE CAUSES**, but some of us want to be sure we do NOT get 4 more years of Republican rule...and we think Nader might get just enough votes somewhere to torpedo that. If he was really serious, he'd have been in the fray before now.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:03 PM

Nader won't be the reason why you have four more years of Republican rule. All of you, and the Democratic candidate you keep voting for blindly, will be to blame.

The reason why independent and third party candidates don't step into the fray before now is because the process at this point is the Democratic and Republican party processes. Not the 3rd party process or independent candidate process.

But it is clear that Mudcatters know precious little about the actual mechanics of the US electoral system. For instance, many of them think that the two major parties should be able to shut out everyone else, in order to insure their major party candidates will win.

Not very democratic, but clearly that is what everyone who says Nader shouldn't be running truly believes. That Nader shouldn't be allowed into the democratic process, because voters might actually vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:09 PM

I'm quite sure YOU have it all sussed out, GiGi....why don't YOU run? I'm sure we'd all vote for you in a heartbeat.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:10 PM

". . . it is clear that Mudcatters know precious little about the actual mechanics of the US electoral system."

That is one of your steamier piles of bovine excrement, GiGi.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:18 PM

It is nearly impossible to believe otherwise, when the majority of posts to the Nader thread are people claiming Nader shouldn't run.

Why shouldn't he run? According to them, because he will actually get people to vote for him.

How many? Hard to say. In 2000, according to the Electoral College results, 2,858,843 votes.

In 2004, far less--240,896.

Why do Anybody But the Republicans voters feel that we need less competition in our electoral system?

You tell me Don. It is, after all, your opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:20 PM

"All of you, and the Democratic candidate you keep voting for blindly, will be to blame."

Oh, SURE! We'll all slpit our votes beteen Nader, Kucinich, Ron Paul, Mike Gravel, Tom Vilsack, Al Sharpton, Ross Perot....and maybe Harold Stassen!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:21 PM

OK...YOU run! THIS year!!!! FILE NOW. Git 'er done, bud. After all, YOU can fix US!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:22 PM

Well, if that is what happens, that is what happens.

I see it Obama's way though. If you are one of the two major party candidates, you should be able to win on your own merits, and not live in mortal fear and combat mode over a couple of percentage points.

Hmmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:24 PM

Buck, buck, buck...buckaw!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:31 PM

Looks like GiGi just isn't up for it. Like a catfish, perhaps.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:33 PM

Nader said he needs $10 million to run a campaign through November.

Obama, otoh, is currently raising $50 million per month.

Perhaps you'd like to dine on that your sweet little self, Miss Sorcha.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:39 PM

Look, I'M not the one ranting about nobody doing it MY Way! YOU are! As you said, you don't need the money to run...just go DO it! I mean, jeeze, you gots a computer, you can print mailers, get a free mailer stamp just like they do..., get some bucks from the Feds....it's all YOUR idea here!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:42 PM

I'm not ranting about anything like that Sorcha. You just are looking for an argument with me, is all.

Talk about silly seasons in politics...you do take the cake today.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:44 PM

GiGi, read THIS.

While you're sitting in front of your computer being snotty to people who don't agree with you, I'm out there, working with a number of dedicated people who are striving to put a little starch into the Democrats.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:48 PM

OK Don, I promise to read it, but later. It's from 2003.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:58 PM

LOL...so now I have an Agenda do I? You amuse us.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 08:58 PM

I posted this for Bobert, not you, Gigi.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:03 PM

Let's simmer down just a little. As Gigi has mentioned (although not in quite these words)Nader doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of harvesting many votes this time, certainly less than in 2004, and way less than in 2000 (when I probably did vote for him after checking to make sure Gore didn't need my vote to win in Maine). Nader might be able to raise a few important issues that are being ducked by the Democratic contenders who would prefer to debate health care or NAFTA, or even the Iraq War.

That's not a bad thing if it were to happen, and if McKain were also proked to respond. I doubt that it will happen, not so much because I'm grown cynical, but I have learned to follow races rather closely, almost as if they were a competitive sport. That's one of the byproducts of having been a staff person in a major failed U.S. Senate campaign. It's hard for me to just go with the flow. I need to step back periodically and see where the flows going, and where it's not.

Now Gigi probably doesn't appreciate me standing up for her. She may even prefer just blowing everyone away, including me. But she's a player, and a good one.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:06 PM

Last time I checked Rapaire, it is still a free country, and the Mudcat mods haven't censored me yet today.

Further, I am not holding Bobert hostage with a gun to his head, telling him I'm hijacking the thread you dedicated to him.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:08 PM

Later might be too late, GiGi. The year in which Hartmann wrote it doesn't alter it's relevance to what's going on right now. In fact, it's all the more timely.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Peace
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:11 PM

OK. One question: Who are his corporate backers?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:12 PM

To you it may well be. To me it is yesteryear's opinion du jour, I didn't agree with the idea that electoral politics can reform government, and I don't agree with the idea now.

True systemic governmental change just doesn't come from within the system. Not even in Velvet Revolutions.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:13 PM

Who are Nader's corporate backers?

What's yer punchline?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Peace
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:18 PM

I had to ask.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:21 PM

"When you get into running for your third or fourth time, I don't think people will pay that much attention to it, and I wouldn't see it having any effect on the race," Virginia Democratic Gov. Tim Kaine said on "Fox News Sunday."

Yeah, that's what they said about Ronald Reagan too, when he got into his third presidential race in 1980.

I'm just sayin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:25 PM

Yes, Gigi. As Mao said, "Power comes from the barrel of a rifle."

I have rifles (and shotguns, and pistols), therefore I am powerful. You do not, so you don't matter unless you agree with me.

THAT'S revolution.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:27 PM

HEY! I have GUNS too! Can I be Vice Prez? Or at least in charge of vice? guns...got lotsa guns.....bullets too!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Peace
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:28 PM

Guns don't matter. Bullets matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:30 PM

Gotz bulletz! Lemme help! Inside the 7 yard line, I'z deadly! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:34 PM

Mao We Can!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Peace
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:34 PM

. . . and beer. Beer matters, too. Cold beer, warm beer, fizzy beer, smooth beer, bottled beer, draft beer. I could go on, but anchovies also matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:37 PM

Whether you agree or not, GiGi, doesn't mean that Hartmann wasn't right then and is still right now.

I know quite a few people who agree with him, and the number is growing.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:39 PM

Bullets don't matter. Butter sculpture matters.

Especially during State Fair season. I can't wait to see a butter bust of Bush (I'm sure we'll have several entered into the competition this year, in honor of the Repub convention).

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Peace
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:41 PM

Well, the fat content should be close!

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:53 PM

Only between the ears, Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 09:54 PM

Sorch, you can be head of Sekrit Poo-lease.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 11:22 PM

"Yeah, that's what they said about Ronald Reagan too, when he got into his third presidential race in 1980..."


                But he was the Republican nominee. Nader was only a threat when he was endorsed by the Green Party, and then only as a spoiler. Now, I don't think he even qualifies as a spoiler.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Sorcha
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 12:19 AM

Oh Gee, Rap...THANKS! I think......lol.
I guess I just wasn't a contendah, eh? In spite of bullets....and reloading equipment too. Hey, I can even COOK!

Do Seekrit PooLeace need food?

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 12:44 AM

And once again those who live outside the USA see why a first past the post system has its flaws compared to a preferential voting system... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: irishenglish
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 10:42 AM

I would not vote for Nader because he is 73 years old, which is too old I believe. I would not vote for Nader because admirable (actually astounding) as his legislation efforts have been over the last 40 plus years, I am very concerned about his lack of foreign policy experience. I would not vote for Nader because of the sharp drop off he experienced between the 2000 and 2004 campaigns, ad much as 80% one pundit wrote. I absolutely admire everything he has done, a true Goliath-but as President, I firmly believe that is not his strong suit.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Peace
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 10:56 AM

I would not vote for Nader because I am not an American.

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: DougR
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 06:09 PM

Go Ralph!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 06:43 PM

Agree with ya' there, Dougie...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Nader Enters Presidential Race
From: Greg B
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 07:09 PM

Nader's getting down to being near comic relief, like Pat Paulsen was
in an earlier time.

And I don't buy that he's giving voice to 'the meek.' I think he's
giving voice to Ralph Nader. The man's ego has surpassed his
contributions.

As to guns and Vice Presidents, I don't know why it continues to
be such a joke. So he shot his hunting buddy in the face. Before he
did that, Bill Clinton shot Monica Lewinski in the face.