Women's Hour - Chris Wood

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 06:44 PM

Is a fox ache what you get if someone accepts the offer too enthusiastically?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 03:30 PM

"Offer fox ache"

I really must stop looking at, and laughing at this (it's hilarious)It's also VERY tempting to use it as a sign in name *LOL*

Charlotte(aka guest offer fox sake))

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Snuffy
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:59 AM

I liked "Offer fox ache". Computers may soon be able to wreck a nice beach accurately!

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:49 AM

Perpendicular on a sofa? Is there no end to his athletic ability?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: KeithofChester
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 02:45 AM

This gadget in a Charlie Brooker article from a couple of weeks back might also be helpful for those that think they need to change how they hear how everyone sings or speaks.

"Coo! I can design my own font for the subtitles! Wow! I can flip the picture sideways so I don't have to lift my head if I'm lying perpendicular on the sofa! And look! There's a slider for adjusting the level of regional accents! Now I can make the Geordie guy who narrates Big Brother sound like a Cornish fisherman".

More Here

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Brian Peters
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:04 PM

>> "but it is time to stick up for how we talk"

isn't there a song-writer from the south-west of England who echoed these sentiments in one of his songs...? ;-) <<

I don't know about the South West, but Jim Woodland from (I think) Grimsby wrote a rasping song called "I Talk Like That".

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: KeithofChester
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 01:49 PM

An here is Rex Harrison to sing it

Why Can't The English

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: KeithofChester
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 01:13 PM

Indeed there is, but he then went off on an ill-judged rant about Estuary English, which spoiled his argument a bit.

I think George Bernard Shaw's observation (in the preface to Pygamlion) is better. "It is impossible for an Englishman to open his mouth without making some other Englishman hate or despise him".

Shaw, with a little help from Loerner and Lowe

"An Englishman's way of speaking absolutely classifies him,
The moment he talks he makes some other
Englishman despise him.
One common language I'm afraid we'll never get.
Oh, why can't the English learn to set
A good example to people whose
English is painful to your ears?
The Scotch and the Irish leave you close to tears.
There even are places where English completely
disappears. In America, they haven't used it for years!"


Why Can't The English

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:33 PM

"but it is time to stick up for how we talk"

isn't there a song-writer from the south-west of England who echoed these sentiments in one of his songs...? ;-)

Charlotte (has roots deep in the soil)

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: r.padgett
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 12:27 PM

Sorry I was crass!

I stand by every word though, including good luck in all Chris's endeavours

Does not detract from his undoubted talent and those who who went before from whom we can learn a great deal, yes be your own man and sing with your own voice then!!

the person who said that regional accents are common [noddy] I suspect is from the North or Midlands and conscious of his own accent [we often are] but it is time to stick up for how we talk and avoid the Southerners accent being felt to be superior ~ it aint mate!

Ray

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: melodeonboy
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 06:47 AM

Well said, Nigel.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: mattkeen
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 04:47 AM

Good man Ralphie

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 07:19 PM

Nigel
Couldn't agree more.
I don't really see the point of this thread, apart from the worthy ambition of promoting any mention of traditional music on the national media, without the tired old cliches of Arran sweaters, etc, etc...
To my mind, Chris has single handedly taken the debate to much higher limits than most other performers. More power to him, and people like him.
Comparing his singing style to other performers is just crass, and unnecessary. He is who he is, Nuff said.

Now to bed

Ralphie

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Giant Folk Eyeball (inactive)
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 07:09 PM

Apparently so.

Chris Woods, in my opinion, is one of the main reasons to remain enthusiastic about the future of English folk music. Does it matter if he's a better interpreter of traditional songs and composer of new material rooted in tradition than he is a Midweek interviewee?

And let's have more of those 'funny voices'. It's how some of us speak.

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 07:05 PM

Never touched a drop of lemonade - had a few "Farmer's Blonde". It was well - superb really but I felt a bit expensive - £2.30 a pint.

Proposals so far.......nil.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:44 PM

Have we all had too much lemonade?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Dave Higham
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:42 PM

Yeah, June Tabor when she sings traditional songs unaccompanied.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Folkiedave
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 05:41 PM

I've got nothing against Carthy, Jones or Rose - I'm just irritated by people who think that, in order to do 'Folk', they need to sound like them.

This includes the women too?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:50 PM

Common, geddit?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:42 PM

I suppose they do...if you're a snot nosed little (or big) git *LOL*

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 03:54 PM

Regional accents in music sounds so common don't they?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:18 PM

"Mr Wood seems to have adopted the nasal, slightly 'Mummerset', 'all-purpose-Carthy-Jones-Rose' voice beloved of many 'English-folky-guitar-heroes'

I don't think Chris Wood does sound like any of the aforementioned, but the above remark does sound rather smarmy.....

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:12 PM

I've got nothing against Carthy, Jones or Rose - I'm just irritated by people who think that, in order to do 'Folk', they need to sound like them.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: KeithofChester
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:30 AM

someone else said that once...

Probably Obi-Wan Kenobi or Yoda.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's uncloned Apprentice
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:14 AM

"I don't know about you but clones make me nervous!"

someone else said that once...

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: r.padgett
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 09:48 AM

Perhaps one thing of particular note is the distinctive articulation of words and the stress and tone which is integral within folk songs as sung by our greatest exponents

That is that folk songs are concise and meaningful and convey a geat deal in feelings and often social comment in a short space of time

Regional accents do exist but the overall feeling is communicated generally extremely well

I will leave you to fill in the blanks appropriately! I hope!

Ray

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 09:41 AM

"!an argument where Chris was really over-egging and exagerating the difference between "popular" and "folk" just a bit too much."

I didn't really take that from the interview. I thought it was Chris Wood explaining why, in his youth, pop music left him a bit cold.



"he was positively celebrating the alleged fact that English folk music had died out and bewailing that in Ireland and Scotland people still remembered folk music for what it was"

See, I didn't get that from him, either. I think he was saying that the fact that English music is less prescriptive than Irish or Scottish (he clearly doesn't visit this place!) gives him, as an artist, more freedom. The theory proposed to him was that English music had "died out", whereas Irish and Scottish music hadn't. Of course, this is a misconception in both respects - Irish and Scottish music have both had the life breathed back into them at various times, and it's probably the very nature of these revivals which has led to the prescriptive interpretations Chris Wood was referring to.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: mattkeen
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 08:49 AM

I find Chris's voice very distinctively his own, but he doesn't try to cover up the fact that Martin Carthy has been a strong influence on his approach.

As much as I also like Nic Jones, I don't think Nic's singing is in the same league as Chris or Martins. Its honest and lovely but does not have the depth of expression that Chris's has IMO.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:31 AM

Martin Carthy is 67.
Chris Wood is 48.

(For those interested).

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 06:23 AM

Martin lives in the wild frozen north overlooking Robin Hood Bay, and to me, now, sounds quite northern and distincly not Mummerset.

I don't think Chris Wood sounds Mummerset either.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: melodeonboy
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 05:48 AM

I know that Carthy did sing in one of those silly generic folky/rhotic accents in his younger days, but he (thankfully) ditched that a long time ago. Listen to his spoken voice and his singing voice these days; to me they're one and the same for the most part. I haven't noticed that Chris Wood sounds particularly "Mummerset" either.

Given that they're both from south-east England, they both write/interpret similar kinds of music and song, and they're not a million miles apart in age, it's not so surprising that we notice similarities.

The similarities that I notice (in singing) between Seth Lakeman and Sting worry me far more!

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 04:30 AM

"I am struck just how many similarities Chris has in his singing with Martin Carthy, or is that just me?"

I am struck also! Mr Wood seems to have adopted the nasal, slightly 'Mummerset', 'all-purpose-Carthy-Jones-Rose' voice beloved of many 'English-folky-guitar-heroes'. I don't know about you but clones make me nervous!

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: r.padgett
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 02:39 PM

"Similarities" wasnt meant to be construed as being a bad thing necessarily!

Indeed I find Chris very listenable too

Ray

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:26 PM

"but most of what he said was confused self-contradictory rambling."

Much the same can be said of more than a few contributors to these threads...and you know what? I think I'd much rather listen to Chris Wood

"I am struck just how many similarities Chris has in his singing with Martin Carthy"

can't think of a better singer to have similarities to than Martin Carthy

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:15 PM

Great singer,/ guitarist. When he sings he tells stories and he moves the words, tune and guitar in a flexible way to make the most of the stories. I really enjoy him but it wouldn't matter if I didn't.

I thought he had a good go at explaining how traditional songs and their singers reflected how the rural working class had been dispossessed of land during the enclosures. He also made a good argument for how they lost pretty well everything else withe changes in farming that came around the time of the Industrial revolution.

It's not often that someone as good at singing traditional songs gets on Midweek and talk intelligently about history, music, traditional songs and what current songwriters are doing in that context. If it wasn't perfect should we be surprised? Libby Purvis sounded like somebody making up questions about something of which she knew little, again should we be surprised? It was difficult to spot the questions from the general rambling she did about all sorts of things.

As for the Ark of the Covenant, Prof. Thingy seemed to believe that the box, said Ark, that contained Moses' tablets of stone had been used as an explosive in battle and had ended up in Zimbabwe inspite of the fact that the artefact he had traced could only be dated to around the 13C! Is this why the origins of Morris are so had too pin down?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 01:04 PM

Indeed. He sings a very lovely version of Silver Dagger (which he calls Katy Dear which Tom Paley was extremely interested in last week at The Cellar Upstairs. This led to an animated debate about the Louvin Bros and The Blue Sky Boys.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:59 PM

I was driving at the time I was listening, but what I thought I heard him say, Diane, does not agree with your summary.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: KeithofChester
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:45 PM

You will not be surprised that I am horrified that readily adopted the assumption that singer songwriter music was "folk".

Chris' inclusivity extended to asserting that Country & Western is a "folk music" too (with which I might concur).

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: KeithofChester
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:40 PM

most of what he said was confused self-contradictory rambling.

I wouldn't say most, although I did enjoy Libby Purves picking him up for using just the chorus of She Loves You as an example of a simplistic pop song. The verse of that song may not be the most complex song Lennon & McCartney wrote, but that was an argument where Chris was really over-egging and exagerating the difference between "popular" and "folk" just a bit too much.

So the Ark of the Covenant is in Rhodesia? That sounded a good story and I must look out for the Channel 4 documentary.

Subject: RE: Midweek- Chris Wood
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:24 PM

Should have written "there is but one trad song on Trespasser . . . and I forgot to alter the title to Midweek.

Perhaps an Elf can do this on the front page?

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 12:15 PM

And why do other constituent parts of the United Kingdom retain an affinity with their national music? Obviously because this is in the interests of an elite which used it for their own purposes and provided massive monetary input via the tartan/shamrock tourist industry.

Chris Wood did not say that English music had "died out" (he's not as dim as Cecil Sharp a century ago) but that it had been discouraged and suppressed because nationalism (except in the interests of military recruitment) was not on the ruling class agenda.

There is but one song on Trespasser, a version of The Cruel Mother. And? There were three on Lark Descending. So are you going to argue that he is that he is becoming that much less of a "trad" performer? That would be nonsensical and diversionary. He wants to float the idea of an English diaspora and chooses his material accordingly. And because there is proportionally more self-written material "in the tradition", doesn't this indicate that he finding more and more the confidence to follow his own advice, working in and adding to the tradition, as is the stated aim of the English Acoustic Collective?

And he didn't "adopt an assumption" that singer-songwriters are "folk". No-one is more averse than he is to sticking stupid labels on music. He just didn't disagree with Libby Purvis's "assumptions" as a contradiction would have taken too long.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 11:49 AM

That may be so Diane, but he was positively celebrating the alleged fact that English folk music had died out and bewailing that in Ireland and Scotland people still remembered folk music for what it was. What he presented was quite the contrary of your last paragraph, and the proof of the pudding being what it is he also mentioned that only one of the songs on his album was "traditional".


You will not be surprised that I am horrified that readily adopted the assumption that songer songwriter music was "folk".

Subject: RE: Midweek - Chris Wood
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 10:36 AM

original trespass songs

These were single issue complaints of harsh treatment meted out by the ruling class and their gamekeepers on the dispossessed people who had always regarded common land as their birthright. What Chris Wood has expanded this issue of our fairly hidden past into is "enclosure" as an all-embracing issue: as he says in the notes to Trespasser; "spiritual, geographical, cultural, legislative, chronological, imaginitive".

The enclosures of the 18th and 19th century robbed the common people of over 20% (6.5 million acres) of the total area of England and Wales. What Chris was saying about the internal diaspora thus created was not made up on the spot but it's a concept that has been absorbing him for a number of years. He is concerned at how England's people are ever more divided and just how easy this was to achieve when our "rulers" had first the "improvers" then the "developers" to do their dividing and ruling for them.

He sees the parliamentary enclosures as ultimately responsible for today's underclass which sees no reason to regard themselves as stakeholders in society, nor to have much connection to our cultural heritage. That and the education system which has encouraged them to despise it.

It is his view (and that of Martin Carthy who was a strong mentoring influence on Chris Wood while he served his musical apprenticeship) that it is a musician's duty to attempt to instill once more into those once taught to ignore and ridicule our music and dance a will to learn, participate, share and pass on.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: r.padgett
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 09:26 AM

I am struck just how many similarities Chris has in his singing with Martin Carthy, or is that just me?

I caught some of this on my car radio this morning on Radio 4

I was a bit concerned that Ewan Mccoll wasn't mentioned or A.L.LLoyd being the major links from original trespass songs exemplified by poaching songs after Land Enclosure, Cecil Sharpe wasn't the only active song collector!

But it can be difficult thinking "on the spot"

It is noteworthy that singing traditions do still take place and did not totally die out ~ Sheffield singing at Christmas is a prime example

yes folk music is most certainly still being kept off the major airwaves, brilliant as the newer/younger professional singers and musicians are.

This is a great pity as currently many songs are either right up to date with social comment and listenable than songs which gain valuable air time in the name of commercialism

Best of luck to Chris!

Ray

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:53 AM

Keith, your are indeed correct. How my ears heard Midweek and converted it to Women's Hour I don't know - maybe because there is so much folk music on it.

Anyway, for those that missed it, there is the replayer, podcast and a condensed repeat tonight at 9.30.

Task for later - order Trespasser.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: GUEST,Studentoffolk
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:49 AM

What an idiot he sounded! The track from the new album was very promising, and there was the occasional soundbite that had value, but most of what he said was confused self-contradictory rambling.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: KeithofChester
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:46 AM

You puzzled me as to how you could listen to a programme that hadn't yet started, until I realised you were both talking about Midweek and not Womans Hour.

Subject: RE: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: John J
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:17 AM

Listening, good stuff!

JJ

Subject: Women's Hour - Chris Wood
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 27 Feb 08 - 04:03 AM

He is on this programme now, BBC Radio 4.