Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune

Subject: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: dulcimer42
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:03 AM

I found Gilderoy in the DT, but for the life of me, I cannot seem to fit those words with the midi tune supplied. I need to "hear" the words and tune sung together.   Does anyone know of a youtube or other video where I could hear this. Thank you!!

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:16 AM

Maybe this will help?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:18 AM

Or this?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Willa
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:30 AM

This?
http://www.shazam.com/music/portal/sp/s/media-type/html/user/anon/page/ctrack/trackid/11193978/Shirley+Collins/Gilderoy.html

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: dulcimer42
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 10:43 AM

Well....Thanks for the links, but still not quite... The first two have the tune.   The last link, I can hear her sing the first and last lines.    Still need to hear the entere verse sung, if possible.   Just seems that the DT lyrics have too many syllables for the notes in the tune.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:02 AM

Anything here helpful?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Mr Happy
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:03 AM

Like lots in DT, could be errors.

Depends on memory of who made the initial submission.

If it doesn't scan right, or to your satisfaction, you could modify it to fit your own interpretation

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:07 AM

From "The Fiddler's Companion" site:

GILDEROY [2]. AKA and see "Black Rock"(Pa.), "The Duck Chewed Tobacco" (Va.), "Guilderoy," "Gilder Roy," "Gilda Roy," "Gilroy," "Gilderoy's Reel," "Injun Et a Woodchuck" (Pa.), "Mairi ban Og," "Nellie On the Shore" (Pa.), "The Old Soldier," "Red-Haired Boy," "Wooden Leg." Old-Time, Breakdown. USA; Ky., Va., Ohio, Pa., Mass. A Minor/Mixolydian. Standard. AABB. The title Gilderoy is an Englished version of the Gaelic 'Gilleruadh' or 'Giolla Ruadh', meaning red-haired lad or youth. Historically, Gilleruadh was the nickname of a famous Scottish highwayman named McGregor who was captured and executed in 1636; the song describes his exploits and moralizes on his fate. Glen records that the tune was first printed in the British Isles in 1726 (where it appears in Alexander Stuart's Musick for Allan Ramsay's Collection of Scots Songs), in William Thompson's Orpheus Caledonius of 1733 and again in 1742, though Cazden (et al, 1982) dates the tune as "possibly from 1650," perhaps to coincide with the demise of the famous highwayman. It quickly became popular and appears in the later 18th century Scottish collections of Aird, Bremner, Gillespie (1768), Oswald, McGibbon, and McLean (1772) {where it is ascribed to Robert McIntosh}. The Scots national poet, Robert Burns, set one of his early lyrics to it, called "From Thee, Eliza." Macfarlane, in his 'Studies' claimed this tune, among others, was a Gaelic melody, and postulated that an analysis of airs for alteration of musical accent and the introduction of what he termed 'slurs' could detect which tunes had been originally Gaelic but were altered to fit English lyrics. Bayard (1981), Cazden (et al, 1982) and others have long determined that 'Guilderoy', in both vocal and instrumental settings, stems from the protean 'Lazarus' air (see also "Bonaparte's Retreat"), and numbers among one of the half-dozen or so most extensively used melodies in the entire English-speaking folk tune repertory (see JWFSS, I, 142). Elaborates Bayard: "This melody is one of several which provide some index of the extent to which the local tradition is independent of commerical printed collections of fiddle tunes. Bub Yaugher's (Pennsylvania-collected) variant represents the version in which 'Guilderoy' seems always to be known in western Pennsylvania--distinctive in melodic outling, and invariable played in the mixolydian mode. As might be expected the tune is not always known under this name, which is, however, the one most often attached to it. The mixolydian version of 'Gilderoy' is undoubtedly Irish: the editor has repeatedly heard it performed by Irish fiddlers in Massachusetts, and they have always played this version, in variants rather close to the Pennsylvania sets. The printed collections, on the other hand, nearly always give the tune in dorian or aeolian tonality, which corresponds to the tonality of its well known (English and) Scottish versions. Tune versions like this, therefore, present good evidence for the comparative freedom of the Pennsylvania folk fiddlers from influence of printed collections, and for the independence and authenticity of their tradition. The reason for the tenacity of the name 'Guilderoy' is that the famous song by that name was frequently sung to forms of this tune in British tradition" (Bayard, 1944). Flood (1906) claims the tune as Irish and says it was originally called "Molly MacAlpin," a lament written soon after five members of that family (also called Halpin or Halfpenny) were outlawed. Another related Irish tune, likewise in the Lazarus family, include the oft-heard "Star of the County Down" (in duple and triple versions). The title appears in a list of traditional Ozark Mountain fiddle tunes compiled by musicologist/folklorist Vance Randolph, published in 1954. The alternate Pennsylvania titles given above are floaters--"Injun Et a Woodchuck" comes from the ditty sung to the tune:
***
Injun et a woodchuck,
He et it in a minute
(or: I'll be darned if he didn't.)
He et it so darned quick
He had no time for to skin it. (Bayard, 1981)

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:12 AM

?????????

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Mr Happy
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:15 AM

You have to wait a few secs while it loads

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 11:17 AM

Sugar in the Gourd Old-Time Forum :: View topic - Need midi of ...It opens on Bonapart's Retreat, but Guilderoy is tune #85, and they seem to be related. No midi, but interesting notes, and sheet music included. ...
forum.sugarinthegourd.com/viewtopic.php?t=588&start=0&sid=dddf8cc2ca34e94c7667db978f6ccb1a


I can't open that.

Maybe?

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tu
From: curmudgeon
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 01:06 PM

Ewan MacColl recorded "Gilderoy" on the Riverside LP, "Bad Lads and Hard Cases."

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 01:27 PM

The Gilderoy tune is a variant of Dives & Lazarus / Star Of The County Down / Murder Of Maria Marten (and so on). It is also related to Bonaparte Crossing The Rockies. But not Bonaparte's Retreat. That's the tune which Martin Carthy snaffled for King Henry. Can't see / hear any resemblance at all.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Snoozer
Date: 28 Feb 08 - 02:05 PM

You can hear a version of Gilderoy by Carl Peterson on CDBaby (well you can hear 2 minutes of it): Here

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tune
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 02:51 AM

The problem, as is so often the case here, is that the text is from one source and the tune from another, entirely different one. The DT text is from the singing of Henry Burstow of Horsham, Sussex: Lucy Broadwood noted his tune from him in 1893 and he subsequently wrote down the words for her. Whoever copied the text from Roy Palmer's book and added it to the DT evidently didn't think the traditional source was important enough to mention. The link on the DT page suggests that there was once a midi to go with it; but it doesn't seem to be there now.

The separate 'Mudcat Midis' tune was submitted later; I don't know by whom or where they got it; perhaps they didn't say. It certainly isn't Henry's form of the tune, though, so it's not surprising that it doesn't fit his words. You can easily make them fit, though, by learning the tune first; it will then be obvious which notes need to be split to accommodate the 'extra' syllables.

Don't believe everything in that quote from The Fiddler's Companion', incidentally. It's a confusing mixture of good information and complete nonsense.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: Gilderoy: need to hear words with tu
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 29 Feb 08 - 03:07 AM

I prefer both the words and tune as sung by Shirley Collins on For as Many as Will.