BS: Prince Harry - What a star!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,JTS
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 09:57 PM

Those terms are not appropriate. If they are in common use in his regiment, perhaps the regiment should be disbanded as an example.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 10:52 PM

This thread topic got me thinking much recently about the nature and culture of 'transgresive humour'
amongst friends and social peers..

..even the most educated & enlightened
and devoutly PC amongst us are only human after all,
and not always 100% in control of our deeper darkest naughtiest impulses..

..and that is the wayward part of our complex human psyches
laying in wait to catch us out by surprise
when we hear bad sick jokes we really should not find
the least bit amusing..

but.. occasionally crack us up in hysterics..



and its that aspect of human nature that has always provided ripe pickings
for the edgiest smartest comedians and social satirists
to exploit and manipulate, and reveal to ourselves our baser potential
to laugh out loud at subjects that are just very 'wrong'.


There is absolutely no such thing as a 'good' racist joke..

but sometimes despite our better nature and intentions
they can be really quite funny..

Why ???!! who knows..

This is by no means a justification.. just an observation of our less than perfect human nature..

Whilst thinking, and researching contextual material, I stumbled on this link..


http://www.sickipedia.org/index.php


don't go there if you know you will be angered by vile offensive bad jokes...

I don't recomend or condone it, just provide it as 'food for thought'

most of it is shit.. but there is also evidence of creativity and inventiveness
which far surpasses what the subject matter of any of those nastiest of jokes deserves..

And not too impossible perhaps to draw links with the 'military mindset'
under consideration here..

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 03:00 AM

I think a lot of people who are defending Harry are taking it for granted that this was a level of "banter" that was acceptable within the regiment. In fact, he doesn't actually say "Our little Paki friend" to the lad's face, but quietly, far from the soldier's hearing.

Those who describe this as regimental cameraderie are no better informed than those of us who perceive it as a possible example of institutionalised racism. No one knows whether Harry (and others) used this term to the Ahmed Raza Khan's face. We do know that Harry rang him to offer an apology, though - would this have been necessary if the soldier had been aware that this term was regularly used light-heartedly within the regiment? We also know that the soldier's relatives have been deeply offended by the use of the word.

The singer Billy Bragg joined the army in his youth. He was already somewhat disenchanted with the squaddie lifestyle when news came to the regiment one day that Bob Marley had died. Bragg was devastated, as Marley was one of his musical heroes. He was shocked and disgusted, though, by the fact that the barracks room resounded to the jeering racist slurs of his colleagues, who could not acknowledge and respect Marley as one of the greatest musical influences that the world has ever produced, but could only define (and demean) him by his race. Bragg cites this as the turning point which led to him resigning his commission.

While this is something that took place 30 years ago, I think it's fair to say that it is indicative of an institutionalised racism in the British army which it has been fighting ever since, but now and again, just like in the police force, an example comes to public attention which suggests that there's still a long way to go. When one of those examples is provided by a member of the royal family, it's rather inexcusable, IMHO.

Doesn it matter whether a racist slur is used in hatred or in jest? Whether it hurts, or simpply patronises? I don't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 05:48 AM

No! Sorry, but you can't have the moral high ground, if you regard any reference to black people as racist and unacceptable, while remaining blissfully unmoved by "Taffy", "Yank", "Jock", "Ginger",
"Whitey", and a lot of other references to origin or colour which are apparently exempt from your moral outrage.

Why do you believe that intent is unimportant, when you would all say that those names are affectionate banter.

In fact all of them have, at some time been used as pejorative terms, but have also been acceptable nicknames in military circles, and wouldn't raise an eyebrow here.

Why is that, I wonder? Could it be that in your world, only black people can be insulted?

Incidentally, I watched that video too, and considering that the camera was about four to six feet from the lieutenant, and the only sound was Harry's comment, I find it strange that Ruth should think that he didn't hear, especially as he was sitting looking directly into the lens and obviously aware he was being filmed.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:08 AM

Don, I am in absolute and total agreement with you.

I also think there are many members of 'Hypocrites R Us' in this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:39 AM

"I also think there are many members of 'Hypocrites R Us' in this thread."

Why, because not everyone agrees on a subject?

I can actually see Don's point of view, but happen to disagree as my experience of this sort of thing is not one where words like 'Paki' are used as terms of endearment.

Nothing hypocritical about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM

Jack, surely it's very hypocritical when people decry the use of what they judge to be 'racist' words, yet themselves describe members of the Royal family in terms which are equally derogatory, if not more so.

I think that's what Lizzie means (although she's clearly very capable of speaking for herself!) :-)

Let he who is without blemish cast the first stone.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:06 AM

BWM - we're in danger of getting mixed up here. Calling someone a name is not the same as using a term of racial abuse.

For instance, you might call me a fat talentless twat and you might well be correct and I might be offended but you can call anyone a fat talentless twat regardless of skin colour. You might be being rude and those who live in airy-fairy land and not the real world might baulk at such terms, but people have been trading insults since our ancestors uttered their first sentence.

Harry wasn't using a nickname, he was using a term based on his skin colour and ethnic origin. You could call me a paki, but of course it'd be meaningless as I'm not asian. I judge this to be a racist word because I've heard my friends called when it was being used pejoratively - what do you suggest I do, turn a blind eye?

So, I still think the Royal Family are a bunch of sponging tossers who should bog off, but I would not say they are a bunch of sponging niggers because that is racially offensive to a large proportion of the population the world over, regardless of however many gangsta rappers or Tarantino films bandy the word about.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:15 AM

No,
I have not been in the army - I live in the real world where people like Stephen Lawrence are murdered because they are a nig-nogs, or where Asians have petrol poured through their letter boxes and lit because they are Pakies. At present we are witnessing what amounts to a campaign of ethnic cleansing of Travellers - whoops sorry - knackers is the word used here to assist that particular process.
Nor do I hate the royal family - I consider them an anachronistic hangover from feudalism.
Any hatred I have is reserved for racists who consider it acceptable to use the above terms (and dress in uniforms which symbolize the behaviour described), including those who consider their social standing permits them to do so.
I am not particularly fond of apologists of such behaviour who facilitate these atrocities.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 09:22 AM

"I also think there are many members of 'Hypocrites R Us' in this thread."

Why, because not everyone agrees on a subject?


No.

Because some in here happily fire words at others, with intended malice behind them, choosing to deliberately verbally abuse them, on a personal level. Yet they set themselves up as some kind of saint when it comes to racism.

As I've said before in this thread, please explain to me why one is 'acceptable' and one is not, to the very people who do this.

You cannot say "This Stinks!" whilst causing a stink yourself.

Why is it OK to make some feel they have no talent, or they are worthless human beings, hated, loathed, looked down upon or intellectually bereft...and yet some of the very people who do this are now saying how utterly appalling it is to upset others, when it has 'racism' connected to it?

You cannot have one rule for 'racism' and one rule for everything else.

Racism is a feeling or belief that one race has particular traits and that one race, (that of the racist) is superior to another.

However, feeling that *you* are superior to ANY person, no matter if they are of another race or not, is one of the worst traits in people, in my book.

Feeling that you are 'superior' towards anyone is wrong, surely?

Unless, I guess, you belong to Hypocrites R Us.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:25 AM

I get your point Jack but, in Backwoods-World, abuse is abuse whether on the basis of skin-colour, parentage, waist-size, whatever.

Do you think that overweight people aren't hurt when others abuse them by calling them 'Fat Cunt' (exactly as I've been abused on many occasions)? You might see it as just 'name-calling'. I see it, and other similar stuff, as an insult made with the intention of causing hurt, and thus it is abuse.

I make no distinctions between different kinds of abuse, and I do my best to avoid indulging in abuse, whether it be racist, sexist, weightist, sexist, anti-Royalist, whatever.

Abuse is abuse. All kinds of abuse are to be deplored. People who criticise others for one kind of abuse, and then go on to perpetrate abuse themselves are indeed hypocrites. Period.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:31 AM

"Harry wasn't using a nickname, he was using a term based on his skin colour and ethnic origin."

Now could you explain that Stigweard/Sugarfoot Jack??

Oh, by the bye Jim the plural of 'Paki' would be 'Pakis' - no 'e' - Coming from a shortening of the name of the country Pakistan.

Which brings me back to Sugarfoot's remark - "ethnic" origin - WTF were they called before 1947 Jack?? I ask because that was when Pakistan came into being - name didn't exist before then. "Skin colour" what is being referred to is where the person, who by now we have clearly established took no offence at the remark, comes from - exactly the same as 'Jock', 'Taffy', 'Paddy', 'Yank', 'Yarpy', 'Frog', etc.

As to use of such terms in the services have a listen to the introduction on Shep Woolleys, "Norman Docherty and the Chinese Rock & Roll Band" - absolutely hilarious and I would find it very hard to believe that anyone would take offence at it, particulary the main character who did exist in real life.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:38 AM

"Why is it OK to make some feel they have no talent, or they are worthless human beings, hated, loathed, looked down upon or intellectually bereft..."

Er, what are you talking about? This is about calling asiam people names. As you've probably guessed, I'm a republican and a marxist and believe we are all born equal, regardless of race, creed or gender. I'm not superior to anyone, and equal to everyone, including those for whom birth means privilege provides them with more than most can even dream of.

All that matters is people - and that is the end of it. If those in positions of wealth and privilege can't behave responsibly then they should expect to be taken down a peg or two, especially if they take money from the public purse, where people who can ill-afford to are already giving too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:44 AM

Regards name calling and hypocricy.

Harry doesn't enter my thoughts much at all I must confess. And to be honest, though I have very strong misgivings about the Royal Family, I think Charlie isn't a bad man. And I think he takes his duties seriously. But if the Royals are to function usefully in any way, and as far as I can see, their sole 'legitimate' function (if any) is as *figureheads*, then their behaviours *must* be exceptional.

I have no feelings about Harry, other than his behaviours indicate to me that he is at best a weak, foolish, ignorant, and evidently over priviliged young man. Whose behaviours on more than one occassion *that we actually know of* again, strongly suggest to me, that he is a chip off the old (with his "slitty-eyes" and "fuzzy-wuzzies") Philip block.

And indeed, I've never called him *any* name in my life, apart from *on this thread*. And that, PURELY to demonstrate what I'd hope might be a pretty self-evident point. Which has obviously not been made... Or has it?

I for one remain distinctly unimpressed, and think that the Royals need to begin seriously cleaning up their act. We are now in a multi-cultural UK. The Wogs, Paki's, and Towelheads as well as the Slitty Eyes, Fuzzie-Wuzzies and Kykes ain't going back 'home', this is their home. With it's Tikka Masalas, Reggae, Irish pubs, Donner Kebabs and now the all new Eastern European Folk Music on our streets.

These people need to recognise that they now must represent *all* citizens of these Isles in order to maintain whatever legitimacy as figureheads for the UK, they may be capable of continuing to make any convincing claim for.

Evidently Eton is utterly worthless as an education for teaching the young Royals how to perform their duties correctly in this modern UK - where they are no-longer rulers of a 'great' Empire, but (exceedingly well paid) public servants of this multi-cultural little island. Well, well. I guess that's not exactly a surprise...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 10:50 AM

So........name-calling (a.k.a. "Abuse") is OK, as long as it's a member of the Royal family (who, incidentally, doesn't have the luxury of being able to argue back, Rosie - certainly not on a public forum like this one) who's the target?

Have I understood you correctly, Rosie?

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:13 AM

It's OK for Harry to call an asian a paki, but I'm wrong for calling him "and over-privileged tosspot"?*

Can I ask if any of those who are defending Harry currently use these names to the faces of people?







* Actually, in hindsight this is a little personal, so I would agree that wasn't so nice. But the question still stands.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:31 AM

No, Jack.

It's wrong for Harry to call an Asian 'Paki', if by doing so he intends to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's wrong for you to call Harry an 'overprivileged toss-pot' if by doing so you intend to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's wrong for someone to state on a public forum that someone else is illegitimate, if by doing so they intend to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's wrong for someone to call someone else 'Fat Cunt' if by doing so they intend to denigrate him and cause hurt.

It's simply a case of consistency - and it's consistency that's missing from the attitudes of some of the posters on here. You can't decry abuse, then go on to be an abuser yourself.

I don't like any sort of abuse. And speaking as a former Fat Cunt, I had plenty.

IMHO and my final word. I've got a life.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:47 AM

"It's wrong for Harry to call an Asian 'Paki', if by doing so he intends to denigrate him and cause hurt."

But we're not to worry about all the other people who are offended by this term then? They don't matter because it wasn't aimed at them personally?

"It's wrong for you to call Harry an 'overprivileged toss-pot' if by doing so you intend to denigrate him and cause hurt."

Which I've acknowledged . . . but if I have to kneel then . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Sugarfoot Jack
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:49 AM

. . . I won't.

Lost my cookie again - that was me above!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 11:56 AM

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:25 PM

Jack, you're not stupid, you know exactly what I'm saying. I'll say it once more for the sake of clarity.

Abuse is abuse. All abuse is wrong. An Asian is an Asian by accident of birth and abusing him because of that is wrong. It's equally wrong to abuse a Royal simply because he was born a Royal by an accident of birth. Neither the Asian nor the Royal has any influence over the circumstances of his conception or birth, and it's wrong to abuse him on the basis of that conception and birth - be it a fact, or a fiction that is the product of someone's over-fertile imagination.

And I do believe that there is a sub-culture nowadays who eagerly seek to find offence where no offence is necessarily intended. It's the kind of schoolgirl-playgound "You said somthing about Susan, she's my friend so I'm gonna kick your fuckin' head in" mentality that goes on amongst the young, and amongst the less-mature adults in our society.

And there I take my leave. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 12:36 PM

"Oh, by the bye Jim the plural of 'Paki' would be 'Pakis' -"
I bow to your obvious familiarity with racist terms.
"Racism is a feeling or belief that one race has particular traits and that one race, (that of the racist) is superior to another."
No Lizzie - racism is having petrol poured through your letterbox because you're a 'Paki'
"Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "
No need to stress the point Lizzie - we already know how you go through life.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 01:29 PM

No need to stress the point Lizzie - we already know how you go through life.

Is that the Royal 'we', Jim?



"Talk about the music, Lizzie"

This is *Excellent*


Prince Harry, carrying on his Mother's AIDS work

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Sleepy Rosie
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:18 PM

"Have I understood you correctly, Rosie?"

No, you haven't. And I don't know if you not understanding me, is deliberately obtuse, or that (what I assumed my perfectly clear) *ironic statement* was mysteriously veiled.

Which I don't believe it to be.

Do I need to refer to Harry as an "Inbreed", to make the point to those who find his very own "Paki" perfectly acceptable, that some 'Jokey' terms about other people, are indeed offensive?

What adds insult to injury, is the fact that I have to actually illustrate this highly hillarious point, to those same people.

Hypocrites R Us much?

I'm so outa this waste of time 'discussion'.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:23 PM

I'm so outa this waste of time 'discussion'.

Well, it does seem to be going round in circles. I'm with Backwoodsman and Lizzie and I don't mind if anybody else disagrees with us.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 02:42 PM

All this intellectualising (and spelling correction) and we still don't know if 'Paki (or Packie maybe) is a term of racist abuse.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Alan
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:12 PM

Leading members of the British Establishment are already looking forward to Barack Obama's first official visit. Gordon Brown is very keen to take him on a historical tour of Scotland, the Queen is very much hoping to entertain him at an official state banquet and Prince Harry is ready to tell him a few jokes.

I would love to be a fly on the wall when President Obama first meets Prince Phillip!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 22 Jan 09 - 06:40 PM

""Any hatred I have is reserved for racists who consider it acceptable to use the above terms (and dress in uniforms which symbolize the behaviour described), including those who consider their social standing permits them to do so.
I am not particularly fond of apologists of such behaviour who facilitate these atrocities.""


I don't suppose "Whitey", "Honky", and "Cueball" meet your highly specialised criteria for terms of racial abuse.

I don't think they would sell many extra copies of the News of the World either, so we probably won't see any outcry about THEIR use any time soon, either here or in the papers.

It is still about intent to denigrate or cause hurt.

Hypocrites R Us. Possibly Rosie, as long as you are viewing the world through those one sided blinkers.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:55 AM

"I don't suppose "Whitey", "Honky", and "Cueball...."
Don't like either but they don't lead to getting petrol poured through the letter box.
Still not got the bottle for a yea or nay on the racist offense given? As I said. sctatch an apologist......
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:58 AM

Sorry,
Before the phantom 'corrector' gets to work and avoids the issue again - that should read 'scratch' - must clear up the serious issues before dealing with the trivial.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 03:27 AM

Turkmenistan is the home of the Turkmen
Afghanistan is the home of the Afghans
Kurdistan is the home of the Kurds.
Uzbekistan is the home of the Uzbeks.
Pakistan is different because there is no Paki tribe and the people are properly called Pakistanis, but it is odd that an abreviation is regarded as offensive.
It is though.

Civillians do not get it about soldiers.
After going through Sandhurst together, the shared hardships and endurance and intimate living will make those men closer than most brothers. Eavesdropping on them will not bring understanding if you have not experienced that culture.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Al
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:03 AM

Hardships, endurance and a pack of murdering bastards, you forgot that one Keith. Well it appears as the weeks go by they are becoming fewer in number.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:09 AM

I did not forget it Al.
It is a slander that you can not justify because it is a lie.
You hate all ginger people.
You hate all soldiers.
You are just full of hate.
You must be very unhappy.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Stu
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 04:12 AM

"All this intellectualising (and spelling correction) and we still don't know if 'Paki (or Packie maybe) is a term of racist abuse."

The way I've seen it used (against a friend), it was so I associated with racist abuse. Backwoodsman, Don and eanjay don't so I guess it's down to personal experience. We're arguing in circles as eanjay said, so I take my leave.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 07:36 AM

"Civillians do not get it about soldiers."
Those living in Gaza did - with a vengeance
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 07:53 AM

Jim, Gaza is being discussed in other threads.
The reference was to relationships between soldiers in a small unit, not pro or anti war.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:44 AM

Keith,
Whoever this feller is, soldier, prince, whatever, he is prone to using racist abuse and dressing up in a uniform which symbolises racism in its most extreme form.
Added to this, members of his family also use racist terms and two of them in the past openly gave their open support to Hitler - you know - the feller who oversaw the extermination of countless millions.
Does this not ring alarm bells with you?
Is it really difficult to state whether or not you believe Paki, Towelhead, Sooty and Fuzzie-wuzzie are racist terms, therefore offensive, therefore unacceptable, particularly from members of Britain's most prominent family.
A number of people who have given their support to the behaviour of this character have ridden off into the sunset without having the bottle to answer this question, leaving me with the impression that they are either closet racists or supporters of racism by their silence.
It really is as easy as that.
Where do you stand?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 08:59 AM

Where do I stand on racism, racist behaviour and racists abuse?
Exactly alongside you Jim.
I detest it and always challenge it when I come across it.
Do I "support to the behaviour of this character "?
Some of it, yes.
Especially his voluntary work in Africa.
But this discussion is about that video clip, and I see it from a different perspective than yours.
I recognise that kind of banter between men closer than friends.
I have seen it many times, and I have seen disrespect, and I recognise the difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:22 AM

Yes and I stand by it.
I made Oakville tell the truth, except that the real Oakville felt no shame for the lies he told.
When the victim of a lying attack by a Guest, why should I not fight back when the mods did nothing?
Presumably you support the lying Oakville.
Tell us why.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: GUEST,Mr Yeahbut
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 09:35 AM

me..? I'm neither royalist or racist..

but I do have a mature positive respect for military service,
and am prepared to give the majority of UK service personel
the benefit of the doubt
that the culturally transgressive language they often use amongst themselves
does not indicate any genuinely significant active racist intent.

.. and yes, at the same time I am uncomfortable with the low level degree of institutionalized tacit racism
that may still be prevelent..

work always needs to be done to improve attitudes,
but human nature is neither yet perfect,
or without contradictions..!!??


Is it really difficult to state whether or not you believe Paki, Towelhead, Sooty and Fuzzie-wuzzie are racist terms, therefore offensive, therefore unacceptable, particularly from members of Britain's most prominent family.

Of course, these are all obviously terms that no sensible person would ever consider 'right' to use in public.
Even, if some of us leftie/liberal/progressive types
may occasionally use them in an 'ironic' cultural context
in converstion with our our closest friends,
we would still need to think twice and proceed with extreme caution..

"A number of people who have given their support to the behaviour of this character have ridden off into the sunset without having the bottle to answer this question, leaving me with the impression that they are either closet racists or supporters of racism by their silence."

So are we all of us damned to be racists by default
until
we all individually specifically seek to satisfy your personal terms of approval
of our true anti racist credentials ????????????????

well.. I repeat, me..? I'm neither a royalist or a racist..

but I definitely find it difficult to tolerate
self-rightious moral high ground grabbin' smug c@ntz...

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 11:06 AM

"A number of people who have given their support to the behaviour of this character have ridden off into the sunset without having the bottle to answer this question, leaving me with the impression that they are either closet racists or supporters of racism by their silence."


Er..I've ridden off into the sunset because I'm fair fed up with you wanting nothing but an endless *argey-bargey, Jim.

With of course, no disrespect meant there towards any *Argentinians.
;0)

Here, Jim....HERE is the young lad who you want to slam to hell!

Prince Harry talking about his beloved Mum on the 10th Anniversay of her death

Taken from that link, Harry's speech:

"William and I can separate life into two parts. There were those years when we were blessed with the physical presence beside us of both our mother and father.

And then there are the 10 years since our mother's death. When she was alive, we completely took for granted her unrivaled love of life, laughter, fun and folly. She was our guardian, friend and protector.

She never once allowed her unfaltering love for us to go unspoken or undemonstrated.

She will always be remembered for her amazing public work. But behind the media glare, to us, just two loving children, she was quite simply the best mother in the world.

We would say that, wouldn't we.

But we miss her. She kissed us last thing at night. Her beaming smile greeted us from school. She laughed hysterically and uncontrollably when sharing something silly she might have said or done that day. She encouraged us when we were nervous or unsure.

She -- like our father -- was determined to provide us with a stable and secure childhood.

To lose a parent so suddenly at such a young age, as others have experienced, is indescribably shocking and sad. It was an event which changed our lives forever, as it must have done for everyone who lost someone that night.

But what is far more important to us now, and into the future, is that we remember our mother as she would have wished to be remembered as she was: fun-loving, generous, down-to-earth, entirely genuine.

We both think of her every day.

We speak about her and laugh together at all the memories.

Put simply, she made us, and so many other people, happy. May this be the way that she is remembered."



Well, he has no mother to be beside him anymore, but he sure as hell has kind and sensible people who can see beyond the greed of the News of the World, and who will stand up and protect him from the vitriol that some LOVE to throw at him!

Diana, whether you liked her or not, was a damn wonderful mother to her boys. Would that she were still here for them!

Go and stand across from her island, look out there and ask yourself if this feeling, deeply emotional, loving and kind woman, who reached out to all, no matter what colour, what background, what faith, could *ever* raise a son who was a racist!! GEEZ!!

And as for the Nazi uniform, we've been there, done that...He was a young lad badly encouraged by his elder brother to wear something that neither of them thought deeply enough about. As I said, I've no doubt Harry ridiculed the SS something rotten at that party, along the lines of the TV series 'Allo 'Allo....and that he did NOT wear it to sit with a whole pile of other people dressed up at a fancy dress party, simply there to spout racist abuse!!

Holy Jumping Catfish!!!!!!!   GET REALLLLLLLLLLLL!!

Now, PLEASE get off his back once and for all, because this endless outpouring of abuse from you towards Harry is, for me, beyond belief.

I was one of those 'soppy twits' who took flowers up to London for Diana...and I saw the ARMY of people who descended upon the city from all over the world! I stood in Kensington Gardens, where the scent of flowers, three feet deep in places, was overpowering!   I heard the silence of thousands of people, utter, total silence...and felt the grief of a nation. I saw the many mementos people had tied to the gates of Kensington Palace, along the railings outside.....saw the poems, the artwork, incredible things that people had left for her...the flowers hanging from the trees, the bells, the ribbons..the horse belonging to the mounted policeman, only ONE was needed in that peaceful crowd of thousands...the flowers reached up above the horse's knees, all around him...as he stood there silently with his head bowed down, almost sensing the sadness that surrounded him.

As I stood there, Diana lay over in St. James's Palace...whilst her sons visited her coffin, and said goodbye to the mother who had loved them both, more than any other person on earth.

So, if now and again Harry, as a young man, says or does something a bit stupid, I am perfectly able to forgive him, because I have such admiration for a young man who is being made out to be the new 'baddie' of the Royals, by a media who gives not a shite, and some people who pour all their bitterness and anger on to him..

And why do I respect him..I'll tell you why....Because he has had the guts NOT to go on air and tell every damned umpleasant person to FOOOOK the hell off out of his life, out of his private life, out of his world, and leave him the hell alone..

And no, he can NEVER resign from being a Prince, because even if he did it 'officially' he is a Money Machine to evil and greedy bastards who will hound him until the day he dies, as they hounded his mother..

THE END

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 01:22 PM

Would or time not be better spent writing novels now that Barbara Cartland has popped her fluffy slippers Lizzie?
I don't think I have ever read such a load such sloppy sycophantic garbage.
Really does put everything else you have written into context.
Jim Carroll
PS Still don't know if you thing Paki is racist invective - but judging by above - it doesn't really matter!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 02:52 PM

Would that be the same Harry who also said last year, "I don't like England very much"?

He doesn't seem to mind my taxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:23 PM

Geez, some people just can't stop.

I pity them.

I really pity them for the hatred and bitterness they harbour. It seems to be what keeps them alive, the wanting to 'hate'

How sad that a young man has been made to feel almost alien in his own country, because of the hatred of others. In other countries he is liked, loved, treated as a human being and respected for the good work that he does, but over here, over here dwell so many with a deep bitterness inside their hearts, as can be seen from this thread and from a particular section of the English folk world.

Another reason I respect Harry is for actually staying in this country when almost every part of him must want to leave it, because of the twisting, spinning, lying b*stards who will never leave him alone.




"I don't think I have ever read such a load such sloppy sycophantic garbage.
Really does put everything else you have written into context."

Yes, it was written with emotion, and from the heart, and I make no apology for that, whatsoever.

If your heart has hardened to such an extent that you feel nothing watching that video of Harry talking about his mother and that ALL you can take from it is yet more sarcasm, more bitter bile, then my heart weeps for that heart of yours.

My heart also weeps for Sidmouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:31 PM

""I don't suppose "Whitey", "Honky", and "Cueball...."
Don't like either but they don't lead to getting petrol poured through the letter box.
Still not got the bottle for a yea or nay on the racist offense given? As I said. sctatch an apologist......
Jim Carroll ""

Since your debating ability is so weak that your only recourse is an attempt to bolster argument with ad hominem attacks (Joe and Clones please note!), I shall put this in terms simple enough for your limited understanding.

If Prince Harry had been making that comment in the course of deliberately trying to hurt or belittle the lieutenant, I would now be standing shoulder to shoulder with you baying for his blood.

I have repeatedly said that I am anti prejudice in all its forms, and not like yourself, concerned only with the narrow definition of racism as being prejudice against black people.

I repeat just once more, in the vain hope of actually getting a new idea into that impermeable head, RACIST LANGUAGE IS ABOUT INTENT. You dismissed out of hand my citing of the use of the N word by black people amongst themselves, saying that it is not a racist term in that context, then you state that Paki is racist no matter the context.

You really do believe in having your cake and eating it. You are more racist than I, because there are racist terms that don't bother you since they denigrate whites, not blacks.

It is pointless to discuss further with you.
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 05:56 PM

Time this thread was put to bed? It's disappearing up it's own fundamental orifice.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:17 PM

Yup, I thoroughly agree, John.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:28 PM

"My heart also weeps for Sidmouth. "

LOL!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:43 PM

My laughs have all run out.

As has this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Prince Harry - What a star!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jan 09 - 06:50 PM

400 and out. PLEASE !!