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BS: Shannon found- alive!

McGrath of Harlow 15 Mar 08 - 06:32 PM
Jean(eanjay) 15 Mar 08 - 06:14 PM
katlaughing 15 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM
Mr Red 15 Mar 08 - 05:26 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Mar 08 - 05:10 AM
Partridge 15 Mar 08 - 04:39 AM
Liz the Squeak 15 Mar 08 - 02:34 AM
Charley Noble 14 Mar 08 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,Greycap 14 Mar 08 - 10:01 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 08 - 07:22 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Mar 08 - 06:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 08 - 06:40 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 08 - 06:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 08 - 04:04 PM
Emma B 14 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM
Georgiansilver 14 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM
skarpi 14 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM
Emma B 14 Mar 08 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Sapper on UTU4 nearing Newport 14 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM
Grab 14 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 08 - 02:15 PM
Emma B 14 Mar 08 - 01:32 PM
GUEST,scooby 14 Mar 08 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,PMB 14 Mar 08 - 12:47 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:32 PM

No one had denied that the McCann's were negligent in going round the corner to eat while their kids were in bed. The arguments were about about the degree of negligence involved was - whether it was the kind of daft thing that many good parents have done, or whether it was somethi g that no good parent could ever do.

Any time a child goes missing there is a question as to whether the parents have done something wrong. It's heartbreaking, but it's founded on the knowledge that all too often that is the case. And this applies just as much when parents are well off as when they are poor.

when it comes to people jumping to the worst conclusions on the basis of prejudice I don't think the experience of the McCanns indicates that this is something that only happens to poor parents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:14 PM

3 positives here:

Shannon has been safely found.

The police pulled out all the stops to find her.

The community have given her mother the support she needed .... however you can tell that, sadly, it has taken its toll of her.

Good luck to all of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM

Thanks, Patridge, for that glimpse of Dewsbury. It's really interesting.

There's got to be some classism in the coverage or lack of...to many, it was unusual and shocking to think that so-called higher class parents like the McCanns might have been negligent, yet people have no problem jumping to that conclusion when it comes to some one of lesser means. It's sad refelction of society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 05:26 AM

Considering the huge police effort and the community apparently did a lot it fills my heart with hope. The father thought that because they were poor it was more difficult for them than say the McCanns who were rich and had rich friends. The fact that the police and the community were so responsive may have been down to the fact that there were no unfortunate lapses on the parent's part. Plus a few cultural differences maybe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 05:10 AM

"But first of all, and before getting into the arguments and the moralising, isn't it great to have a story like this which doesn't have the terrible ending that we have learned to expect?   

I've just been watching the scenes of the friends and relatives and neighbours getting the news, and it was like watching a miracle unfold. Very moving and completely genuine. You don't see something like that very often on TV."

McGrath's right on the button. A child most of us thought of as abused and murdered has been found alive and, apparently, well. That's a cause for real celebration, and the picking-over of her mother's lifestyle is, at this moment, unworthy.

Like others, I suspect there's more to this story than first meets the eye, but I don't believe the mother's the one who should be targetted, she's clearly been a tormented woman these past few weeks and is deserving of real sympathy from all of us who have gone through parenthood. IMHO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Partridge
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 04:39 AM

Shannon lives three miles away from me, I was so happy to hear the news that she had been found alive and apparantly ok. There has been so much activity from the people of Dewsbury in an attempt to find her. The police activity has been very noticable - I've never seen so many!

The majority of my friends all live in Dewsbury, and its a strange place, one might say all life is there. Its had a lot of bad press recently because of the london bombers. It is a town that is run down. Many of the large retailers have pulled out of the town centre, and its become a pound shop, charityshop kind of place.

My local pub, The West Riding Refreshment Rooms, located on the station in Dewsbury, has won the best CAMRA(real ale) Pub in Yorkshire two years in succession. Again I would say all life is there, You have buiders sitting with teachers and MP's and actors and those who don't seem to work at all, you also get the occasional madman/woman. There are also some very dodgy looking types (that would be me!)

There has been much discussion about Shannon over the last month and the local papers made her front page news every week, there were posters everwhere. The good people of Dewsbury will have toasted her return with gusto. At least she is safe now.


I'm sorry if this has been a bit of a ramble, I was just trying to give a picture of the place.

Pat x


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 02:34 AM

I don't read newspapers except the free paper on the train, and I don't watch or listen to news programmes on radio or TV, but even I knew what Maddie McCann looked like after a week. I wouldn't be able to identify Shannon if she came up to me in the street - there is definately a huge difference in the press reaction to this case. Maddie was front page news every day for months - I've seen possibly one front page picture of Shannon in the 3 weeks she's been missing.

As a parent, I'm glad for her mother that she is alive and well, as a human, I'm sad that these things happen, but as a person who tries very hard to treat all equally, I am furious that this poor girl was relegated to the inner pages because she wasn't so photogenic, she wasn't the product of a middle-class upbringing or she was just those few years older and presumably more able to make cognitive decisions herself.

I had heard nothing of her upbringing until I read this thread - but suddenly the lack of people talking about it, becomes all too clear to me.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:19 PM

It's better.

With a little more support the mother and child might even survive.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:01 PM

I've just returned from a gig in the Dewsbury area tonight - while on the way to the tonight's gig, I heard the news on the Leeds radio that this little girl had been found.
I know that most of my friends assumed, as I did, that she was dead, sexually abused, buried in a shallow unmarked grave etc....
The important thing is that she is alive - thank Heaven!!
Her mother's sexual activities, her social background , are not in the frame as relevant, as much the fact that thise little girl is ok.
Right?
This little girl doesn't probably have our social upbringing, for lack of better word skills, but agree with me, it's miraculous that she has survived?
I don't doubt that she will have been molested, or worse, but she can survive.
In my humble opinion....
I'm so pleased she's ok.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM

It is fantastic, McGrath, yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 07:22 PM

But first of all, and before getting into the arguments and the moralising, isn't it great to have a story like this which doesn't have the terrible ending that we have learned to expect?   

I've just been watching the scenes of the friends and relatives and neighbours getting the news, and it was like watching a miracle unfold. Very moving and completely genuine. You don't see something like that very often on TV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:51 PM

And the same judgmentalism in Goa.

Women have as much right as men to a sex life.

I suspect a possible rescue mission. But not from the fact of her mother's sex life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:40 PM

There's a kind of prim prurience that always seem to emerge...


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:34 PM

...whose mother has been sexually promiscuous during her child's life,...

If you are going to make those kind of statements, please cite your source.

It would be nice if everyone would refrain from making assumptions AND judgements. Guess folks just can't help kicking when someone is down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:04 PM

And we'll undoubtedly get more. Lots and lots more. Not necessarily the relevant more, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM

West Yorkshire Police confirmed that Shannon had been found concealed in the base of a divan bed.

The abductor is reported to be a member of Shannon's stepfather's family; it is also suggested that his own children had been taken away from him, and he lived in the flat on his own.

Like all such situations there is probably a great more to this sad story.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM

Great that she has been found but I guess there has to be the usual inquest by the Police, the family, the community and of course the good old press. I will be really interested in the final story as there would seem to be more to it than meets the eye at present. I am sure this was not just a simple abduction by a 'strange' man......let's see....time will reveal all!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: skarpi
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

very good news , but again this is making many get through bad memory´s
that have lost their children through the years .

ATB skarpi


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:52 PM

With an unlocked door there was every chance that the almost four year old Madelaine McCann could have woken up and simply wandered away searching for her absent parents.

While agreeing that it was not 'unreasonable' to ask whether Shannon Matthews might have run away from home (although her mother certainly was under the impression that she had been abducted and by someone known to the family) the style of interviewing however certainly was not.

Accusations the Shannon was 'unhappy' at home had been denied by both her natural father and stepfather

Not just The Independent has commented on the contrasting media reaction to this case however...

'When Shannon Matthews vanished after leaving her primary school, there was an initial flurry of attention on the impoverished council estate in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, where she lived. West Yorkshire Police knew that they were dealing with a potential case of child abduction and threw unprecedented resources into their search. As the community pulled together, the satellite vans of the national media arrived on the hillside streets of Dewsbury Moor and for a few days Shannon's name featured prominently on newspaper billboards.

But no longer. The search for a vanished innocent continues but Britain seems to have lost interest.

This week the hunt appeared to have been classed as less newsworthy than the most minor developments in the search for Madeleine McCann, who disappeared nine months ago.

Is Shannon — a shy, timid, gentle girl — somehow deemed less worthy of our concern?

Dewsbury Moor is no Home Counties idyll, nor is it a Portuguese holiday resort. It is "up North", it is a bleak mix of pebbledash council blocks and neglected wasteland, and it is populated by some people capable of confirming the worst stereotype and prejudice of the white underclass.......

....Contrast the media-savvy McCann campaign with the brave efforts of Petra Jamieson, 30, a friend of Shannon's mother, who managed to persuade her local branch of Asda to donate 24 white T-shirts on which the girl's photograph had been printed.'
Times on-line 1st March

Anyways as PMB says - 'Good news for a Friday afternoon!'


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Sapper on UTU4 nearing Newport
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM

Thank God she is safe.
But there is now the question to be asked, was she hiding from her parents, or was she being hidden against her will?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Grab
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

I agree, great news.

But Emma - eh?

There was *big* criticism of the McCanns for leaving their child alone. There was also plenty of speculation about whether the parents were involved. And with the age of Madeleine McCann, there was no possibility that she'd run away.

But here we have a 9-year-old child who's independent enough to be finding her way around on her own, whose mother has been sexually promiscuous during her child's life, who's living in a large family on a run-down estate with little money to support them, and whose siblings have claimed her step-father had been physically abusing her. Given all those facts, is it a huge step to ask whether the girl had run away?

Really there isn't any comparison at all between the cases, and that writer on the Independent should have known better than to start the whole class-war thing. Having said that though, I would have also expected that interviewer to be more sympathetic to a woman who's clearly going through hell - asking the question is one thing, but to keep on going like that is plain nasty.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:15 PM

Thank you, Emma, for the link and the excerpts. That was my first reaction was what the aitch does it matter how many men the mother has had children with?!

It's good to know she was found alive!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 01:32 PM

Hardly pertinent to the case....

The reaction of the media has been strangely different from that of the photogenic child of professional parents

'Missing children and the media: The wrong kind of family?

The case of Shannon Matthews, the missing nine-year-old from Dewsbury, has developed a cruel overtone: an unspoken suggestion that, because of their lifestyles, her family deserve not our pity but our censure

There is growing disquiet that other questions, posed by the media, have gone far beyond necessity and lifted the lid on an uncomfortable hypocrisy in British society. Yesterday, Ms Matthews, 32, and her partner, Craig Meehan, gave an interview to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about how they have coped during the three-week hunt for the missing schoolgirl.

Some 90 seconds into the interview, the presenter, Sarah Montague, sought to clarify why it was possible Shannon could have been unhappy and run away from the family home on the Dewsbury Moor council estate – a ramshackle but robustly proud community that even the local vicar describes as "an area of acute social deprivation".

Ms Montague said: "Perhaps we should explain. It's a slightly complicated family picture you have, isn't it? You've got seven children, by six fathers?"...

Ms Matthews, a woman who her friends say has barely slept for the last three weeks and spends a part of every day in uncontrollable tears, could conceivably have answered in a number of ways. She might have asked what relevance such an inquiry had to the hunt for her daughter, who disappeared on the afternoon of 19 February while making her way home from a school swimming lesson. Incredulity, anger or a resigned silence may also have been expected.

Instead, she quietly gave the correct number of previous partners with whom she has had a child: "Five."'

The Independent


I celebrate that this child has been found alive and echo the statement of Lyn Costello, co-founder of Mothers Against Murder and Aggression (Mamaa), which campaigns on behalf of victims of violence, who said: "It is a truth that few people want to admit to but the amount of publicity and sympathy you get if you are the victim of a terrible crime in this country depends on your social status. The question asked of Karen Matthews about the numbers of her children and their fathers is very typical. How is that in any sense relevant to what has happened to Shannon?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,scooby
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 01:01 PM

Yes it is good news.I expect he was known to her as the mother had seven different fathers to her children.I just hope she was not sexually hurt to be scared for life.


Scooby.


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Subject: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 12:47 PM

The missing 9-year old Shannon Matthews has been found- alive ! Good news for a Friday afternoon!


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