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BS: Shannon found- alive!

GUEST,PMB 14 Mar 08 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,scooby 14 Mar 08 - 01:01 PM
Emma B 14 Mar 08 - 01:32 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 08 - 02:15 PM
Grab 14 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM
GUEST,Sapper on UTU4 nearing Newport 14 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM
Emma B 14 Mar 08 - 02:52 PM
skarpi 14 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM
Georgiansilver 14 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM
Emma B 14 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 08 - 04:04 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 08 - 06:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 08 - 06:40 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Mar 08 - 06:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Mar 08 - 07:22 PM
katlaughing 14 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM
GUEST,Greycap 14 Mar 08 - 10:01 PM
Charley Noble 14 Mar 08 - 10:19 PM
Liz the Squeak 15 Mar 08 - 02:34 AM
Partridge 15 Mar 08 - 04:39 AM
Backwoodsman 15 Mar 08 - 05:10 AM
Mr Red 15 Mar 08 - 05:26 AM
katlaughing 15 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM
Jean(eanjay) 15 Mar 08 - 06:14 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Mar 08 - 06:32 PM
Emma B 15 Mar 08 - 06:55 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Mar 08 - 08:26 PM
GUEST,Guest. who also hopes. 16 Mar 08 - 06:43 PM
Dave the Gnome 16 Mar 08 - 06:56 PM
GUEST,Happy Tapper 16 Mar 08 - 07:52 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Mar 08 - 08:00 PM
GUEST,leeneia 17 Mar 08 - 10:53 AM
the lemonade lady 17 Mar 08 - 11:59 AM
Emma B 17 Mar 08 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,PMB 17 Mar 08 - 01:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Mar 08 - 01:14 PM
Backwoodsman 17 Mar 08 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,Happy Tapper 17 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,Yorkie 17 Mar 08 - 02:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 17 Mar 08 - 06:22 PM
Backwoodsman 18 Mar 08 - 09:44 AM
Keith A of Hertford 18 Mar 08 - 10:43 AM
GUEST,PMB 18 Mar 08 - 10:58 AM
Emma B 18 Mar 08 - 11:25 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 18 Mar 08 - 11:28 AM
Emma B 18 Mar 08 - 11:55 AM
Wesley S 18 Mar 08 - 12:03 PM
GUEST,Yorkie 18 Mar 08 - 12:29 PM
Richard Bridge 18 Mar 08 - 01:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Mar 08 - 04:45 PM
theleveller 19 Mar 08 - 04:52 AM
GUEST,Yorkie 19 Mar 08 - 05:19 AM
Emma B 19 Mar 08 - 06:21 AM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 08 - 06:26 AM
GUEST,Yorkie 19 Mar 08 - 06:59 AM
theleveller 19 Mar 08 - 08:13 AM
Backwoodsman 19 Mar 08 - 08:49 AM
GUEST,guest 19 Mar 08 - 09:07 AM
theleveller 19 Mar 08 - 09:27 AM
Richard Bridge 19 Mar 08 - 11:33 AM
theleveller 19 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,Guest 19 Mar 08 - 12:10 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Mar 08 - 02:33 PM
theleveller 19 Mar 08 - 04:24 PM
GUEST,dianavan 19 Mar 08 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,Guest 19 Mar 08 - 06:34 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Mar 08 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,Guest 19 Mar 08 - 07:31 PM
GUEST,Guest 19 Mar 08 - 07:50 PM
Emma B 19 Mar 08 - 08:09 PM
John MacKenzie 19 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 08 - 08:41 PM
GUEST,Guest 19 Mar 08 - 09:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 08 - 09:26 PM
Emma B 19 Mar 08 - 09:30 PM
GUEST,guest 19 Mar 08 - 09:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Mar 08 - 09:46 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Mar 08 - 11:06 PM
Richard Bridge 19 Mar 08 - 11:08 PM
theleveller 20 Mar 08 - 04:43 AM
GUEST,guest 20 Mar 08 - 05:20 AM
GUEST,Harris Glenn Milstead 20 Mar 08 - 05:35 AM
theleveller 20 Mar 08 - 11:33 AM
the lemonade lady 20 Mar 08 - 03:05 PM
theleveller 20 Mar 08 - 04:30 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Mar 08 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,Guest 03 Apr 08 - 01:49 PM
Emma B 03 Apr 08 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,leeneia 03 Apr 08 - 02:08 PM
GUEST,Guest 03 Apr 08 - 03:38 PM
Richard Bridge 03 Apr 08 - 07:06 PM
Bryn Pugh 04 Apr 08 - 03:44 AM
theleveller 04 Apr 08 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,Neovo 04 Apr 08 - 11:17 AM
GUEST,Guest 04 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Guest 04 Apr 08 - 01:33 PM
Emma B 04 Apr 08 - 02:34 PM
GUEST,Guest 05 Apr 08 - 04:44 AM
the lemonade lady 05 Apr 08 - 05:45 AM
theleveller 05 Apr 08 - 06:41 AM
GUEST,Guest 05 Apr 08 - 07:41 AM
GUEST,Guest 05 Apr 08 - 07:58 AM
theleveller 05 Apr 08 - 09:57 AM
Richard Bridge 05 Apr 08 - 10:02 AM
GUEST,Guest 05 Apr 08 - 11:28 AM
Backwoodsman 05 Apr 08 - 12:15 PM
GUEST,Guest 05 Apr 08 - 12:39 PM
Captain Ginger 05 Apr 08 - 02:14 PM
GUEST,guessed 05 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM
GUEST,Guest 05 Apr 08 - 03:43 PM
Captain Ginger 05 Apr 08 - 04:21 PM
Don Firth 05 Apr 08 - 06:04 PM
Richard Bridge 05 Apr 08 - 06:22 PM
Emma B 05 Apr 08 - 06:41 PM
GUEST,Guest 05 Apr 08 - 06:49 PM
Dave the Gnome 06 Apr 08 - 05:37 PM
Sorcha 06 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,Guest 06 Apr 08 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Guest 07 Apr 08 - 03:05 AM
theleveller 07 Apr 08 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,Guest 07 Apr 08 - 06:26 AM
Emma B 07 Apr 08 - 06:30 AM
GUEST,Guest 07 Apr 08 - 06:55 AM
Georgiansilver 07 Apr 08 - 08:19 AM
GUEST,Guest 07 Apr 08 - 08:43 AM

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Subject: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 12:47 PM

The missing 9-year old Shannon Matthews has been found- alive ! Good news for a Friday afternoon!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,scooby
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 01:01 PM

Yes it is good news.I expect he was known to her as the mother had seven different fathers to her children.I just hope she was not sexually hurt to be scared for life.


Scooby.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 01:32 PM

Hardly pertinent to the case....

The reaction of the media has been strangely different from that of the photogenic child of professional parents

'Missing children and the media: The wrong kind of family?

The case of Shannon Matthews, the missing nine-year-old from Dewsbury, has developed a cruel overtone: an unspoken suggestion that, because of their lifestyles, her family deserve not our pity but our censure

There is growing disquiet that other questions, posed by the media, have gone far beyond necessity and lifted the lid on an uncomfortable hypocrisy in British society. Yesterday, Ms Matthews, 32, and her partner, Craig Meehan, gave an interview to BBC Radio 4's Today programme about how they have coped during the three-week hunt for the missing schoolgirl.

Some 90 seconds into the interview, the presenter, Sarah Montague, sought to clarify why it was possible Shannon could have been unhappy and run away from the family home on the Dewsbury Moor council estate – a ramshackle but robustly proud community that even the local vicar describes as "an area of acute social deprivation".

Ms Montague said: "Perhaps we should explain. It's a slightly complicated family picture you have, isn't it? You've got seven children, by six fathers?"...

Ms Matthews, a woman who her friends say has barely slept for the last three weeks and spends a part of every day in uncontrollable tears, could conceivably have answered in a number of ways. She might have asked what relevance such an inquiry had to the hunt for her daughter, who disappeared on the afternoon of 19 February while making her way home from a school swimming lesson. Incredulity, anger or a resigned silence may also have been expected.

Instead, she quietly gave the correct number of previous partners with whom she has had a child: "Five."'

The Independent


I celebrate that this child has been found alive and echo the statement of Lyn Costello, co-founder of Mothers Against Murder and Aggression (Mamaa), which campaigns on behalf of victims of violence, who said: "It is a truth that few people want to admit to but the amount of publicity and sympathy you get if you are the victim of a terrible crime in this country depends on your social status. The question asked of Karen Matthews about the numbers of her children and their fathers is very typical. How is that in any sense relevant to what has happened to Shannon?"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:15 PM

Thank you, Emma, for the link and the excerpts. That was my first reaction was what the aitch does it matter how many men the mother has had children with?!

It's good to know she was found alive!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Grab
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

I agree, great news.

But Emma - eh?

There was *big* criticism of the McCanns for leaving their child alone. There was also plenty of speculation about whether the parents were involved. And with the age of Madeleine McCann, there was no possibility that she'd run away.

But here we have a 9-year-old child who's independent enough to be finding her way around on her own, whose mother has been sexually promiscuous during her child's life, who's living in a large family on a run-down estate with little money to support them, and whose siblings have claimed her step-father had been physically abusing her. Given all those facts, is it a huge step to ask whether the girl had run away?

Really there isn't any comparison at all between the cases, and that writer on the Independent should have known better than to start the whole class-war thing. Having said that though, I would have also expected that interviewer to be more sympathetic to a woman who's clearly going through hell - asking the question is one thing, but to keep on going like that is plain nasty.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Sapper on UTU4 nearing Newport
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM

Thank God she is safe.
But there is now the question to be asked, was she hiding from her parents, or was she being hidden against her will?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:52 PM

With an unlocked door there was every chance that the almost four year old Madelaine McCann could have woken up and simply wandered away searching for her absent parents.

While agreeing that it was not 'unreasonable' to ask whether Shannon Matthews might have run away from home (although her mother certainly was under the impression that she had been abducted and by someone known to the family) the style of interviewing however certainly was not.

Accusations the Shannon was 'unhappy' at home had been denied by both her natural father and stepfather

Not just The Independent has commented on the contrasting media reaction to this case however...

'When Shannon Matthews vanished after leaving her primary school, there was an initial flurry of attention on the impoverished council estate in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, where she lived. West Yorkshire Police knew that they were dealing with a potential case of child abduction and threw unprecedented resources into their search. As the community pulled together, the satellite vans of the national media arrived on the hillside streets of Dewsbury Moor and for a few days Shannon's name featured prominently on newspaper billboards.

But no longer. The search for a vanished innocent continues but Britain seems to have lost interest.

This week the hunt appeared to have been classed as less newsworthy than the most minor developments in the search for Madeleine McCann, who disappeared nine months ago.

Is Shannon — a shy, timid, gentle girl — somehow deemed less worthy of our concern?

Dewsbury Moor is no Home Counties idyll, nor is it a Portuguese holiday resort. It is "up North", it is a bleak mix of pebbledash council blocks and neglected wasteland, and it is populated by some people capable of confirming the worst stereotype and prejudice of the white underclass.......

....Contrast the media-savvy McCann campaign with the brave efforts of Petra Jamieson, 30, a friend of Shannon's mother, who managed to persuade her local branch of Asda to donate 24 white T-shirts on which the girl's photograph had been printed.'
Times on-line 1st March

Anyways as PMB says - 'Good news for a Friday afternoon!'


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: skarpi
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

very good news , but again this is making many get through bad memory´s
that have lost their children through the years .

ATB skarpi


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM

Great that she has been found but I guess there has to be the usual inquest by the Police, the family, the community and of course the good old press. I will be really interested in the final story as there would seem to be more to it than meets the eye at present. I am sure this was not just a simple abduction by a 'strange' man......let's see....time will reveal all!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 03:07 PM

West Yorkshire Police confirmed that Shannon had been found concealed in the base of a divan bed.

The abductor is reported to be a member of Shannon's stepfather's family; it is also suggested that his own children had been taken away from him, and he lived in the flat on his own.

Like all such situations there is probably a great more to this sad story.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:04 PM

And we'll undoubtedly get more. Lots and lots more. Not necessarily the relevant more, of course.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:34 PM

...whose mother has been sexually promiscuous during her child's life,...

If you are going to make those kind of statements, please cite your source.

It would be nice if everyone would refrain from making assumptions AND judgements. Guess folks just can't help kicking when someone is down.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:40 PM

There's a kind of prim prurience that always seem to emerge...


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 06:51 PM

And the same judgmentalism in Goa.

Women have as much right as men to a sex life.

I suspect a possible rescue mission. But not from the fact of her mother's sex life.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 07:22 PM

But first of all, and before getting into the arguments and the moralising, isn't it great to have a story like this which doesn't have the terrible ending that we have learned to expect?   

I've just been watching the scenes of the friends and relatives and neighbours getting the news, and it was like watching a miracle unfold. Very moving and completely genuine. You don't see something like that very often on TV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM

It is fantastic, McGrath, yes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Greycap
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:01 PM

I've just returned from a gig in the Dewsbury area tonight - while on the way to the tonight's gig, I heard the news on the Leeds radio that this little girl had been found.
I know that most of my friends assumed, as I did, that she was dead, sexually abused, buried in a shallow unmarked grave etc....
The important thing is that she is alive - thank Heaven!!
Her mother's sexual activities, her social background , are not in the frame as relevant, as much the fact that thise little girl is ok.
Right?
This little girl doesn't probably have our social upbringing, for lack of better word skills, but agree with me, it's miraculous that she has survived?
I don't doubt that she will have been molested, or worse, but she can survive.
In my humble opinion....
I'm so pleased she's ok.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 10:19 PM

It's better.

With a little more support the mother and child might even survive.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 02:34 AM

I don't read newspapers except the free paper on the train, and I don't watch or listen to news programmes on radio or TV, but even I knew what Maddie McCann looked like after a week. I wouldn't be able to identify Shannon if she came up to me in the street - there is definately a huge difference in the press reaction to this case. Maddie was front page news every day for months - I've seen possibly one front page picture of Shannon in the 3 weeks she's been missing.

As a parent, I'm glad for her mother that she is alive and well, as a human, I'm sad that these things happen, but as a person who tries very hard to treat all equally, I am furious that this poor girl was relegated to the inner pages because she wasn't so photogenic, she wasn't the product of a middle-class upbringing or she was just those few years older and presumably more able to make cognitive decisions herself.

I had heard nothing of her upbringing until I read this thread - but suddenly the lack of people talking about it, becomes all too clear to me.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Partridge
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 04:39 AM

Shannon lives three miles away from me, I was so happy to hear the news that she had been found alive and apparantly ok. There has been so much activity from the people of Dewsbury in an attempt to find her. The police activity has been very noticable - I've never seen so many!

The majority of my friends all live in Dewsbury, and its a strange place, one might say all life is there. Its had a lot of bad press recently because of the london bombers. It is a town that is run down. Many of the large retailers have pulled out of the town centre, and its become a pound shop, charityshop kind of place.

My local pub, The West Riding Refreshment Rooms, located on the station in Dewsbury, has won the best CAMRA(real ale) Pub in Yorkshire two years in succession. Again I would say all life is there, You have buiders sitting with teachers and MP's and actors and those who don't seem to work at all, you also get the occasional madman/woman. There are also some very dodgy looking types (that would be me!)

There has been much discussion about Shannon over the last month and the local papers made her front page news every week, there were posters everwhere. The good people of Dewsbury will have toasted her return with gusto. At least she is safe now.


I'm sorry if this has been a bit of a ramble, I was just trying to give a picture of the place.

Pat x


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 05:10 AM

"But first of all, and before getting into the arguments and the moralising, isn't it great to have a story like this which doesn't have the terrible ending that we have learned to expect?   

I've just been watching the scenes of the friends and relatives and neighbours getting the news, and it was like watching a miracle unfold. Very moving and completely genuine. You don't see something like that very often on TV."

McGrath's right on the button. A child most of us thought of as abused and murdered has been found alive and, apparently, well. That's a cause for real celebration, and the picking-over of her mother's lifestyle is, at this moment, unworthy.

Like others, I suspect there's more to this story than first meets the eye, but I don't believe the mother's the one who should be targetted, she's clearly been a tormented woman these past few weeks and is deserving of real sympathy from all of us who have gone through parenthood. IMHO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Mr Red
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 05:26 AM

Considering the huge police effort and the community apparently did a lot it fills my heart with hope. The father thought that because they were poor it was more difficult for them than say the McCanns who were rich and had rich friends. The fact that the police and the community were so responsive may have been down to the fact that there were no unfortunate lapses on the parent's part. Plus a few cultural differences maybe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:01 PM

Thanks, Patridge, for that glimpse of Dewsbury. It's really interesting.

There's got to be some classism in the coverage or lack of...to many, it was unusual and shocking to think that so-called higher class parents like the McCanns might have been negligent, yet people have no problem jumping to that conclusion when it comes to some one of lesser means. It's sad refelction of society.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:14 PM

3 positives here:

Shannon has been safely found.

The police pulled out all the stops to find her.

The community have given her mother the support she needed .... however you can tell that, sadly, it has taken its toll of her.

Good luck to all of them.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:32 PM

No one had denied that the McCann's were negligent in going round the corner to eat while their kids were in bed. The arguments were about about the degree of negligence involved was - whether it was the kind of daft thing that many good parents have done, or whether it was somethi g that no good parent could ever do.

Any time a child goes missing there is a question as to whether the parents have done something wrong. It's heartbreaking, but it's founded on the knowledge that all too often that is the case. And this applies just as much when parents are well off as when they are poor.

when it comes to people jumping to the worst conclusions on the basis of prejudice I don't think the experience of the McCanns indicates that this is something that only happens to poor parents.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 06:55 PM

Kevin as a professional Child Care worker I have criticised the McCanns for spending several hours drinking in a Tapas bar with friends every night of their holidays (which was not 'round the corner' as the media choose to repeat) and not because they were 'middle class', although they could well have afforded the cost of a baby sitter.

I have also criticised the way that the buisness fund was set up so that the money that ordinary people donated was not able to be used at all to assist in the search for Shannon or indeed any other child.

I replied to scooby's post because it not only brought up the totally irrelevant issue of mother's serial relationships but couldn't even get that accurate!
It seemed all too indicative of a pernicious attitude to what people 'were' rather than anything that they had done.

In this case mother, and the rest of this large, rather 'chaotic' family appear to have done nothing but to act as any other parent would in these circumstances, calling in the police immediately and assisting them at every stage of their enquiries.

As eanjay said - a positive outcome and hopefully a happy recovery for the child too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 08:26 PM

On the maps I've seen the Tapas bar does look quite literally round the corner. But aside from that I can't see that what you wrote there in any way differs from what I wrote - there was different opinions expressed about the level of negligence, but no one disputed that the McCann's had behaved foolishly.

Rushing to judgement in these kind of cases, without the kind of detailed knowledge that would be required, is indeed always a mistake. There is often a tendency to do so, and parents of any kind can be the target.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest. who also hopes.
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 06:43 PM

Emma..
I think you misunderstood Scooby's post.
Her comment did not refer adversely to the mother's serial relationships. She simply pointed out the fairly obvious fact that there were several men friends of her mothers that she would know well enough to go away with.
I think the hope that the girl was not "sexually hurt to be scarred for life" was the more important part of her message.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 06:56 PM

Different circumstances. Different cases. Different outcomes. Different eveything apart from the ones who would still castigate the McCanns for the disappearance of their daughter. Amazing the lengths to which some poeple will go to justify their own previously ill thought arguments.

Sad really.

D.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Happy Tapper
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:52 PM

I agree it's great that she has been recovered, and hope that she does recover from it all.

What I want to know is how come ITV were exclusively filming the story, and had been 2 days before and were coincidently present when she was 'discovered'? I think there is much more here than we have been told. This family are going to be rewarded by magazines, sleazy tabloids, worldwide tv interviews, morning telly, Richard and Judy... need I go on?

HT


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 08:00 PM

If you were filming what was going on, you'd have to be pretty thick not to have missed it when the news came through.

Remarkable what you can do in the way of malevolent insinuation just by inserting quote marks round a word...

"...need I go on?" Preferably not.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:53 AM

It's important to distinguish the attitudes and behavior of the media from those of real people. I've learned here that the media were not much interested in Shannon because she was not well-off and was not photogenic. Real people, however, have been looking very hard for her and are rejoicing in her return.

Always remember that a newspaper, a TV news program or a magazine is just a business, and its goal is profit.

As for Shannon's photogenicity, I bet a good photographer could make her look pretty cute. Nobody's bothered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 11:59 AM

Does anyone know why she hasn't been allowed to see her mum?

Sal


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 12:05 PM

'Mrs Matthews, 32, was allowed to see Shannon for just two minutes - just enough to whisper: "My baby, my baby, I love you" as she gazed at the daughter she had feared she might never see again.

A police source explained why Shannon will not be allowed to return home for some days                              
"There is the forensic evidence we need to take first, then the slow interviewing process," they said. "Only when this is completed can we look at sending her home" '

From today's newspaper reports


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 01:01 PM

That's a very peculiar procedure. You'd think a small child would be traumatised at being removed from her parent, and that restoration to normality would take precedence over all other concerns. I suspect that she has asked not to be sent home, but the police aren't saying that for fear of making the redtops go bananas. The whole thing looks like a runaway rather than an abduction. Was she 'hidden' in the bed drawer, or 'hiding'?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 01:14 PM

Speculation is pointless in regard to all this. It can rapidly turn into a kind of mob feeding frenzy, with nothing real to base it on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 01:17 PM

"Was she 'hidden' in the bed drawer, or 'hiding'?"

Dunno, but her Step-father's uncle was reportedly 'hiding' in the other drawer. I'd say that sounds very suspicious, if she'd simply run away from home, why didn't he either march her straight back or, if for some reason he didn't want to do that, alert the police?

And the fact that she's being kept from her family is surely to ensure that she's able to answer questions without her story being 'massaged' by other (adult) influences.

And surely what has to "take precedence over all other concerns" is to ensure that the person responsible for her abduction doesn't get the chance to do it again with some other child.

This looks like a can of worms that's barely been opened yet.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Happy Tapper
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 01:52 PM

He was hiding in the other drawer? Was he a midget?

HT


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Yorkie
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 02:59 PM

There is one hell of a bad smell about this whole case. Voices on the ground say it was all a scam and family members are openly laughing at which newspaper will make the highest bid for their story.

The media called the family "Working Class" well believe me, NONE of the family work, without exception. Unless you call living of Incapacity Benefit or Disability Living Allowance and scrounging of the Welfare State working.

It is a relief that the child is safe. Many of us living here hope the child who is still in the care of Social Services remains there and never returns to that home or that family.

There is a television series in that family, and it wouldn't be a comedy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:22 PM

Those last few posts would seem to indicate what I meant about "It can rapidly turn into a kind of mob feeding frenzy..."

There's no need in the world to hurry to make judgements about this. The motives of people who do feel that need are themselves pretty suspect.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 09:44 AM

"He was hiding in the other drawer? Was he a midget?"

No idea, I wasn't there. Maybe it's another case of the Journos stirring it up as usual. Never let the truth get in the way of a good story, eh?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:43 AM

It is just prurient curiosity, but you have to ask why the delay in charging the man who was holding her.
The police had to ask for extra time before charging him with kidnap and imprisonment.
So, on what grounds was/is he denying the charge?
Consent of the parent?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:58 AM

'appen. Note no child abuse charge. Curiouser and curiouser.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:25 AM

The defendant is charged with two offences, unlawfully kidnapping the schoolgirl and imprisoning her against her will.

Isn't that enough?

Yes I would say it IS purient curiosity to question why the police should request just an additional 24 hours in order to obtain the evidence they would need from a young girl described frequently as 'timid' and questions are being allowed to occupy only two hours a day.

As Sir Norman Bettison, the chief constable of West Yorkshire Police has stated
"Talking to a nine-year-old isn't a question of sitting them down with a pen and piece of paper and getting that information,"

'Shannon's story, which is slowly unfolding over several days of specialist questioning, has satisfied detectives that they are dealing with a genuine case of abduction.

Police insiders have also poured scorn on a theory that Shannon's disappearance was a hoax staged by one or more members of her family in the hope of gaining the reward money offered for her safe return. "Don't be in any doubt. This is an incredibly serious case," a police source told The Times. ....

Almost all the medical tests have been completed, but some forensic science work is continuing.'

From Time on-line yesterday


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:28 AM

Charming post from henryetta. It'e easy to see how rumours take root, with that kind of mentality abroad.

The mother went on that radio programme specifically to deal with those issues on which she was challenged, and which had been widely thrown around in the print media. Emma B, with her experience, should know that family circumstance is highly relevant in all investigations into crimes against children. Nine times out of ten the answers are within the family. The McCanns, after all, are suspects in the disappearance of their daughter. (And as such they sail pretty close to the wind, circulating on their own initiative, and against police advice, descriptions of others they claim to be suspects.)

Kat: Shannon's mother, who is 32, has seven children by six guys. Even if that's the limit of her sexual adventures I regard that as promiscuity, though I know a lot of people don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:55 AM

I understand very well that family cirumstances are important to the police in investigating any crime and in the court detirmining where care and welfare of children should best rest.

My 'complaint' is that the prurient style of interviewing of Ms. Matthews on Radio 4 was inappropiate in the circumstances and the prominence given to the fact that she has her children by 5 (FIVE! please get it right!) fathers and repeated (inaccurately again) in the second post here wholly disproportionate.

As to the question of promiscuity...

'In some cultures, the term is applied to any man or woman who has more than one lover at a given time. In some industrialized societies, it is likely used only, and derogatorily, in describing women who have many sexual partners' - defn from wiki

In fact there is no evidence that Ms Matthews was promiscuous in the first sense just that she had children by a series of relationships, personally I condemn the sexism inherent in the more derogatory usage of the word.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 12:03 PM

I seem to recall that BB King has 15 children by 15 different women. Has he been called promiscious? No ? Hmmmmm........


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Yorkie
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 12:29 PM

While the relevant authorities are investigating the case maybe they could team up with the Social Security Benefits Branch and ask why this extended family are all work-shy. No one in the family have worked within the last decade and this poor child has witnessed daily day time drinking binges and in-house family brawling.

Social Services are dealing with a nightmare here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 01:33 PM

Emma B, may I agree with your view of the sexism in the use by idiots of the word "promiscuous".

Fionn - go somewhere else and try to reduce someone else to chattel status. Dinosaur!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:45 PM

Unfair to dinosaurs!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:52 AM

"The media called the family "Working Class" well believe me, NONE of the family work, without exception. Unless you call living of Incapacity Benefit or Disability Living Allowance and scrounging of the Welfare State working"

Yorkie, your comments are grossly offensive. What do you know about the lives these people lead? My wife works amongst them, teaching parents who want to become classroom assistants, and there is a real desire for self-improvement and a pride in what they do. What these people need is a chance, not snide remarks from a smug, self-satisfied prig like you.

I suggest you read this.

ttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2008/03/19/shameless-to-sneer-at-shannon-s-family-89520-20355532/


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Yorkie
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 05:19 AM

theleveller, maybe they could become classroom assistants and teach kids how to mix cider, Redbull and lager ? and maybe you could open both eyes and live in reality once in a while.

What's a prig ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 06:21 AM

Yorkie, The Penguin English Dictionary defines a prig as

'one who is sure of his moral superiority to others and quick to condemn them; conceited pedant'

Hope that helps.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 06:26 AM

Seems spot on in this case. There are other words which would fit as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Yorkie
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 06:59 AM

Thanks Emma. So why doesn't McGrath of Harlow use it as his handle ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:13 AM

"What's a prig ?"

As I anticipated, your ignorance knows no limits.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:49 AM

What has the family's position on the 'social scale', or their attitude to work, their appetite for alcohol, or the mother's appetite for sex got to do with anything?

The thread is about a child, repeat CHILD, who disappeared for three weeks, and was found alive and well, thank God.

The police and social services will get to the bottom of what happened to her and, hopefully, she will recover from the ordeal.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:07 AM

theleveller is clearly the type that allows children to live under such conditions as their "Do gooder" attitude shows. It makes me sick.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:27 AM

I'm not a 'type', my anonymous friend. Nor is it up to me how other people live. If by 'do-gooder' you mean someone who, in the course of their job, tries to improve people's lives and help them fulfill their potential, then 'yes', my wife does that. You and Yorkie condemn people for the lives they are forced to lead, then condemn them for wanting to better themselves - you make me sick, you nasty crew. What have you ever done to help anyone except yourselves? I wonder from your ignorant comments if you even have the brains to do that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:33 AM

The Leveller's comments are usually considered and rational, and well rooted, as his handle shows, in an ancient and necessary UK political tradition. When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?

MacGrath, however, is consistently one of the best informed and most constructive Mudcat posters.

Anyone who wants to produce an cheap sneer at the two together really does need to engage brain before putting mouth in gear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:51 AM

Thanks for your support, Richard. You opinions carry great gravitas.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 12:10 PM

Oh come on Richard, if anyone has crossed swords here with these guys it's you.

I have always enjoy reading your comments, but this one is a little below par.

"The Leveller's comments are usually considered and rational"

Oh come on, he usually tries to explain away his embarrassing words as mere "expressions". your post comes across as pandering.

Yes there is a fleeting enthusiasm in some of his comments, but really who could agree with everything he says.

Yet he has his defenders do their best to ignore the facts of this case. The subject of the thread is the wonderful news that the child has been found alive, but personally I do not think she should be returned to the situation which I saw on television on Monday night.


Would I say The Levellers comments here are rational ?

Sorry no Richard, not in this case.

I agree MacGrath is consistent and on occasion he can be reasonable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 02:33 PM

Gigi, I have had disagreements with many. Happily there are few with whom I have allegorically crossed swords. Mostly they fall into three categories: -

1. Horse definitioners
2. Inverted snobs
3. Fascist bastards (including those who apply the fasces to the cause of sexual repression)

The Leveller has a point of view, but I don't think he would assert that there is NO truth save in the underclass.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:24 PM

I'm sorry, guest, I simply don't follow your argument. What embarrassing words do I explain away as expressions? Every post I make is an expression - of my beliefs. I love to 'cross swords' with people if they have intelligent, rational (sometimes even irrationa)and heartfelt opinions but you just talk shit; in which case, the best response is a metaphorical slap. As I once pointed out, my rhetorical skills were first honed in the dockland pubs of Hull and I still have the scars on my knuckles to prove it (Ah, happy days!).

Richard, I wouldn't assert that there is no truth save in an underclass but, then, I don't believe there is an underclass - merely a downtrodden class. Their faces may be in the gutter but a great many are looking up at the stars.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 04:35 PM

Richard - Do you mean sexual repression or sexist oppression?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 06:34 PM

Oh my God another guy with a blanket over his head concerning leeches.

Leveller (the self appointed saint of mudcat), Do you never ask yourself when are the politicians going to get a grip on our benefits system?

They have created this madness where people like these can have as many children as they like and not go out to work, and then claim – quite rightly – that they would be poorer if they did. This woman had even children to six different guys.

One solution would be to put a belt around their ankles.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:07 PM

What's the matter Gigi, not getting any? It seems you can't count so if you can get anyone to screw you, better not use the rhythm method. Maybe you should try to bring up children on benefits before you call it the easy option.

Leveller, you are not using the expression "underclass" correctly. I don't mean the bottom rank of the working class. I don't mean those who are excluded from working by some or other part of the system. I mean those whose position and economy is anathema to the values of society.

I know a number. If they eat goose it is swan. They earn - here and there - by ducking and diving. Property is theft - or at least theirs is (save as far as those they know). By and large they do not claim benefits (some do) often because they have no fixed abode. Some are dealers, some informers. They eat by the longbow or crossbow. Arson is met with arson. They have no capitalist aspiration or puritan work ethic. They are not part of "society" as we know it. Some are my friends.

To borrow the words of Tom Robinson "I'm a middle class kiddy, but I knwo where I stand"


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:31 PM

Get your head out of the clouds Richard. Are you saying it is fine to steal money from the government ? Listen benefit thief does go on and if anyone is in receipt of someone making false claims it is their moral right to report them.

Too many these days decide to opt out and enjoy a wealth of benefits including Housing benefit, Mobility car and Incapacity benefit when they are fit to work but choose not to.

Clearly we are people with differing values.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:50 PM

Social security fraud costs the UK taxpayer up to £4 billion a year.
The level of fraud is unacceptably high and something must be done to weed out fraudulent housing benefit claims.

£4 billion is much too high but that is only 3% of what is given to people in social benefits.I believe fraud is theft of money which many people who are sick and disabled really need.

Do you know you can get housing benefit without a national insurance number ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:09 PM

'Tax avoidance by UK's super-rich 'worth £13bn'

'Tax avoidance by the super-rich costs the British taxpayer £13bn a year - enough money to increase old-age pensions by 20 per cent.'

The Observer, Sunday January 27 2008

Some reports put it higher....

'HMRC say tax avoidance could be costing every household more than £1,500 a year
In a document published late on budget day with no publicity, HMRC has said that the cost of tax avoidance in the UK could run as high as £40 billion a year. This tax avoidance could cost every household in the UK more than £1,500.

The HMRC admission, contained in the report 'Measuring the tax gap - an update', estimates that in 2005 tax avoidance was between £10b and £40b. This figure is even higher than the £25 billion a year estimated by the TUC in it's 'Missing Billions' report'


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:15 PM

Tax evasion illegal, tax avoidance, legal.

G


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 08:41 PM

a wealth of benefits - now that's a phrase to ponder on.

The benefit system at times is so complicated that the only way to avoid desperate poverty traps can be to bend the rules. For example if someone on benefit gets a few days work and informs the benefit agency of this the result can be that, when the temporary work is gone, they may have to wait for many weeks before benefits are restored. The effect is to push people into fiddling the system, or to discourage them from making any effort to get back into working. Either way they are liable to be seen as scroungers.

This is thread drift - but clearly there is an appalling lack of knowledge about how the system actually works on the part of some people.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:01 PM

Emma, at least they worked to earn it. McG, stop splitting hairs. You know there are families who will never work and produce second generation scroungers.

All they are is human rats. Anyway I have made it my business on more than one occasion to telephone the Social Security office to inform them of someone either making a false claim for incapacity benefit, living with a partner while claiming single parent housing benefit or working and claiming unemployment benefit.

I have a contact I keep in touch with who has informed me of several successful prosecutions or suspension of benefits of those I reported.

It's your duty man.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:26 PM

You know there are families who will never work and produce second generation scroungers. Of course. Typically people with a lot of money who avoid paying taxes by employing crooked accountants to work out clever ways of cheating.

They aren't the only ones - but sorting out the rich cheats should be the priority. That;s where the big money is being stolen.

I take it "Guest, Guest" is not the same as "Guest, guest".

Have you seen that vigilante man?
Have you seen that vigilante man?
Have you seen that vigilante man?
I been hearin' his name all over the land.


Nasty people, vigilantes...


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:30 PM

Now where I did hear people described as 'human rats' before?

Oh yes........ I remember


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:37 PM

Keep flying your red flag comrade.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:46 PM

That one the same as "Guest, Guest", or the same as the American "Guest, guest"? I suspect it's the former. Silly game to play.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:06 PM

Oh, you're not Gigi or GiGi, sort of UgUg?

Proud to be part of the secret police? Can you find Romania on the map?

Why don't you try surviving on benefits before you say it's easy? I know of one chap, disabled (yes, he really is, close to wheelchairbound) who despite an upper second in Philosophy seems unable to balance his budgets. I sort of get a feeling you might not have a dgree in philosophy, Uggie. You certainly don't seem to have read the facts about underclass survival.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:08 PM

It just came to me! I know where I've seen that ranting before, Uggie! You're David Hannam with a new handle, aren't you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:43 AM

Richard, sorry for the misunderstanding - I appreciate your definition of 'underclass'.

And to those who have such a 'downer' on them let me say this:

How we see things and judge people is, of course, influenced by our inbuilt prejudices.

For instance, if I talk about a bunch of drunken, abusive layabouts who don't work, take drugs and smash up bars and clubs, who do you think I mean? A gang of chavs from a sink estate? Or some over-privileged sloanies from wealthy, titled or even royal families on a typical evening out?

Think carefully before you answer – you will be exposing your prejudices.

This was brought home to me the other evening on the train back from work. The only seat was opposite a young lad of around 16 or 17 in full chav gear, slugging lager and with his feet on the seat. I told him to move his feet so I could sit down and after giving me an 'old fashioned' look, he did. As the train started, he pulled out a fag and started to light it. I told him to put it away and, after giving me a load of abuse, he saw I meant business and put it behind his ear. A little later he pulled out a pack of syringe needles and started to push them into himself, first his hands, then his thigh, then his cheeks. People on the train were getting a little upset at this stage so I leaned over to the lad, put my hand on his shoulder and quietly asked him if he was OK. He looked up at me and there were tears in his eyes and he explained that he got very stressed and pain of the needles helped him to relax. So, what I first thought was just a lout who should be locked up, turned out to be a very disturbed young man who desperately needed help. I see him on the train from time to time and he comes up and has a chat to me. He's not a bad lad, just one with big problems that he finds hard to deal with – and the only help he'd received was a pack of sterile needles.

Oh, and if you think living on benefits is easy, just you try bringing up a family of four on £86 a week, or whatever it is these days.

And, guest, if you think I'm a saint. what the f**k does that make you?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:20 AM

"he saw I meant business" Wow, we are dealing with a tough nut here chaps. Handbags at twelve paces.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Harris Glenn Milstead
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:35 AM

Hi Richard my old friend hope all is well. Have a wonderful Easter.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 11:33 AM

"Wow, we are dealing with a tough nut here chaps. Handbags at twelve paces. "

Hmmm. I'm afraid it's the way I look - think Uncle Fester with scars. Actually, I'm a pussy cat.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 03:05 PM

'I think there is much more here than we have been told. This family are going to be rewarded by magazines, sleazy tabloids, worldwide tv interviews, morning telly, Richard and Judy... need I go on?'


well I was wondering this too.


Sal (not spending all night infront of the pc)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:30 PM

'I think there is much more here than we have been told. This family are going to be rewarded by magazines, sleazy tabloids, worldwide tv interviews, morning telly, Richard and Judy... need I go on?'

Oh, so it's perfectly OK for so-called celebrities to get a fortune to talk about their sordid, drug-addled lives but not for a woman without a penny to scratch her arse to take advantage of what's being offered and maybe give herself and her family a bit of a treat for once in their lives.

Talk about double standards!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:57 PM

"'I think there is much more here than we have been told." There is always more than we have told and time the press gets into gear.

Even when we appear to have been told an awful lot, there is virtually always a process of selection and editing going on to make the story fit into a predetermined shape.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 01:49 PM

The stepfather of Shannon Matthews, who was missing for three weeks, has been remanded in custody over charges of possessing indecent images of children.

Craig Meehan, 22, of Dewsbury, West Yorkshire, was arrested at the family home on Wednesday and appeared before the town's magistrates on Thursday.

After her partner's arrest, Shannon's mother, Karen Matthews, was allowed a meeting with her daughter, although the schoolgirl remains in the care of Kirklees Social Services.

So do you still think she would be better living at home ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 01:59 PM

That's a decision for a court to make guest.

I recently spent some time with a younger friend who had been brought up in foster care after her father abandoned the family and her mother couldn't cope.
I know what her answer would be - but each case is different.

Remember that Shannon is currently in the care of the local authority with her mother's permission who hasn't been charged with any offence as far as I'm aware.

These decisions are not easy or taken lightly as past posts on 'evil social workers who remove children from families' will demonstrate - 'damned if you do, damned if you don't!'


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 02:08 PM

Good thoughts, Emma B. It's nice to hear from someone who has a little warmth in her heart for Shannon as a person and a child.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:38 PM

"I know what her answer would be "
Why is it better to live in a home environment despite the circumstances ?

She is better in care than living with a family of half wits.

Tell me honesty, would you allow your child to stay in that house with that family for a weekend ?

Honest answer please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 07:06 PM

My late wife Jacqui was a social worker. Every time you take a kid into care you do damage. The question is whether that is more damage than the damage probably/possibly done by leaving the kid at home.

Part of the trouble with deciding is that "indecent images of children" is such a wide net. A boy of 2, a girl of 15, a boy of 15 getting lucky (I'd have prayed for that at the age of 15) or even in some US states a person under 18 or I think 21. And in any event does not prove a likely threat of interference with Shannon (although I had my suspicions from some time ago that Shannon might have been being resued rahter than abducted).


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 03:44 AM

My thoughts entirely, Richard. My beloved commented when the news of Shannon's finding broke : 'We're only getting half a story, there'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 08:19 AM

"So do you still think she would be better living at home?"

As usual, you're judging the issue based on your own ill-informed prejudices and sensational headlines in the papers.

Surely, the decision should rest on whether her stepfather, or any other family member, has abused Sharron in the past and whether he is likely to do so in the future. As I can't answer either of these, I'll let those who are better informed make the decision. Perhaps you should do the same and stop spouting your vitriolic crap.

Oh, and GG, when did you stop beating your wife/husband?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 11:17 AM

It has just been announced that the police have arrested two women in connection with this case. One for assisting an offender and another for perverting the course of justice. This plot thickens by the day!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM

Another sensible comment by "theleveller" poor soul. Seems a troubled person, more to be pitied than laughed at.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 01:33 PM

Benefit scroungers the lot of them. Not a single member of the family circle work for a living.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 04 Apr 08 - 02:34 PM

Guest, not only are you anonymous but you are as uncouth as you are ill informed and bigoted.

' While between 10 and 15 per cent of Moorside's working-age population lives on sickness benefit, most of its families contain a worker.

The problem is pay, which is often around the minimum wage.'

in addition ...

'Moorside is no longer an exclusively council-owned estate. You can tell the privately owned houses by their new grey roofs. A basic house with three bedrooms costs about £90,000, while one that's been modernised and had an extension put in is nearer the £120,000 mark'

Lynsey Hanley, author of a study of council housing, Estates: An Intimate History, states....

"The real problem is segregation - the farming out of the poorest families to estates on the outskirts of towns, often badly served by transport and shops. The 'right to buy' scheme of the Eighties removed many of the more affluent families in council areas as they sold up and moved on.

''Council estates became places of last resort for people who had failed to keep up. They have been given this label of the 'underclass'. They are treated as worthless and begin to act like worthless people, so you get domestic violence, alcohol abuse and family breakdown.

"It was a shock to the media that Shannon's step-father worked. In fact, most people on these estates work; it's just that they are very badly paid. The idea that people choose to live these lives, choose to live on benefits and would in any circumstances, is ridiculous. Of course they would change their lives if they could."

The above is quoted from The Telegraph not usually known for 'left-wing' sentiments.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 04:44 AM

Emma, Living off benefits is now a profession. You really need to open your eyes. We live in a work shy society and if a girl decides to get pregnant at 17 and keepthe child and then get a council house and raise a squad of kids to different fathers, why should I have to pay to support her ?

If someone chooses to put on an act to their GP and benefits assessor (if one bothers to come out) and lives off D.L.A. and Incapacity benefit instead of seeking a job, why should I have to pay for it.

D.L.A. and a free Mobility car are the goals of many leeches.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 05:45 AM

'... I think there is much more here than we have been told. This family are going to be rewarded by magazines, sleazy tabloids, worldwide tv interviews, morning telly, Richard and Judy; need I go on?...'

There's more to this than meets the eye. News is coming out all the time about this case. Tabloids love to eek it out just to keep the interest going and newpaper sales.

Sal


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 06:41 AM

Totally misinformed, as usual, GG. You know nothing of these people and how they live, so your comments don't merit a response.

Why are you such a sad and bitter person; what has happened in your life to make you so unpleasant? Have you thought about seeking professional help - it's available on the NHS, if you can bear the thought of other people's taxes paying for it. I, for one, would not begrudge it as they may be able to stop your constant vomiting up of noxious bile and make you a happier person.

On the other hand, it would deprive us all of a good laugh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:41 AM

It never fails to amaze me how this clown "theleveller" comes onto a thread saying things like "so your comments don't merit a response" or "I am leaving this this thread" or "this is my last comment" then five minutes later this terminal bore returns !

Going through their previous posts on various threads it is clear there is either a personality disorder or some who is just bored in their life and thinks their opinion counts for something.

For what reason would anyone wish to either converse, read posts or debate with such An ill-informed individual ?

I didn't fully understand the comments about them by other members at first, I certainly do now !


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 07:58 AM

Leveller, there is a website I would advise you consider going onto, it is geared for those who are worried about their own mental health.

It discusses how you can spot the symptoms ( as a few here spotted from your ranting posts)of a potential mental health problem and suggests some simple ways to stay mentally healthy.

It does not contain detailed information on any mental health conditions and should not be seen as a substitute for talking to your doctor or healthcare professional if you are worried about any aspect of your mental health. Further information on mental health problems can be found on a range of websites listed in the directory of services section of the site or by visiting the Royal College of Psychiatrists website at www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation.aspx

If you are Concerned about yourself,(as we are for you) please take my advice and visit www.mindingyourhead.info/template.asp

People of different ages can face different problems that can affect their mental health, there are also dedicated sections for Young people, Adults and Older people.

Health and other Professionals who may be in a position to spot mental health problems in others, or who are concerned about their own mental health, will find this website useful for information, sources of training and other resources. It provides a central source of advice and contact information for support groups and organisations across.

The website will be updated regularly and you can leave your comments there instead of here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 09:57 AM

LOL. A phrase containing the words "pot", "kettle" and "black" springs to mind.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 10:02 AM

Gigi - go and check your facts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 11:28 AM

Can someone help me out there, I don't know what's happening. I keep waking up here in my Edinburgh laboratory to find that someone has made some really unpleasant posts on Mudcat in my name. It's like some evil part of my psyche has taken over - maybe it has something to do with that potion I drank....oh god, no, it's happening again...........


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 12:15 PM

"Benefit scroungers the lot of them. Not a single member of the family circle work for a living."

And this is Shannon's fault? It's a reason to pour disdain on a 9-year-old child? It's a reason to spout vitriol on what is a very sad situation for an innocent little girl?

I've just realised your true identity, GG - you're Terry Fuckwit, and I claim the £5 prize.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 12:39 PM

Ha, ha, ha, you snivelling lot. So that pathetic do-gooder Dr Jekyll has found out what's going on, has he? That'll teach him to hide his identity to protect his professional reputation. But that's exactly what he's created...me..Mr Hide. I can say anything I want to about you Richard Bridge, and you theleveller and you Emma B and there's not a thing you can do about it. You think I'm evil? Just wait until you hear what I've got to say next.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 02:14 PM

Evil? Nah - just extremely childish. Anonymous attention-seeking with a keyboard is really rather sad if that really is all you have to offer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,guessed
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM

I think you're going to tell us that you have your evil way with cats and that your name is Claud Balls.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 03:43 PM

The reason we have dysfunctional families such as the Matthews in the UK is because of the Nanny state whereby it is considered ok if you are on the dole, sitting in front of the telly watching 'am I bovvered' and generally acting like the parasites they are.

This government has made our country a laughing stock with a million single mums having children by whoever takes their fancy for five minutes,given free housing and handouts for their various offspring.

Can you blame them? Well yes, because the poorest person can still have values and standards, but the wastes of space in the country are going to grab every penny they can and live off the taxpayers! The answer is to stop giving money to single mums, get people back to work and away from the idea that if they have a backache they can get disability etc. Family allowance should only be for the first child too. Bring in drastic changes and we will see a change overnight in peoples' attitudes.
Having said all that, I am so happy that Shannon is safe and well and long may she and her siblings remain so!

These people are a disgrace to the UK nothing but scroungers 7kids!! 5 fathers!! I bet everyone in this family will be a doleite when they grow up! if ever. Seems like some sort of scam to me if they benefit 1penny from this it should be given to charity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Captain Ginger
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 04:21 PM

You are Paul Dacre and I claim my £5!
Or is it Richard Desmond? Or Richard Littlejohn? Or Nick Griffin? Or Nigel Farage?
Hard to tell, really.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 06:04 PM

The inanity of GUEST,Guest used to bug me, but since I have attained enlightenment, I speak no weevil.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 06:22 PM

Gigi - First, learn to read. Second, learn to think. Third, learn to check your alleged facts. Fourth, please emigrate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 06:41 PM

but not necessarily in that order :)


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 06:49 PM

Still not answering questions posed to you Emma, nothing new there !

Yes see Dick Bridge as a compassionate person lmfao

Subject: RE: BS: Maggie Thatcher Day
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 11 Jan 03 - 04:04 PM

I am glad to hear Thatcher had a stroke. I enjoy it every time I hear it. I hope she suffers long dying. I hope she rots in hell for eternity thereafter.

She destroyed the progress this country and the western world (possibly except America) were making towards civilisation, and towards reducing the gap between rich and poor.

For selfish and doctrinaire reasons she made millions suffer so her few fair weather friends could benefit. She did no good and much harm.

There may be others who have recently been more evil and malevolent than she. But not many.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 05:37 PM

Just trawled through this lot. Only one observation realy.

Maddie case - No one in the family arrested or any longer under suspision by any authorities.

Shannon case - Members of the extended family arrested and under investigation by the police.

Can the people who castigated the McCanns in the former case realy justify supporting the Matthews clan here? Slight case of reverse snobbery methinks but I do not wish to go down that route too far.

Like someone said earlier. Lets wait to see what the courts say. In BOTH cases please?

Cheers

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Sorcha
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:02 PM

Why hasn't some of the crap and attacks here been deleted?


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:45 PM

Because they are called "The opinions of others" Sorcha.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:05 AM

Shannon's mother now arrested this morning in connection with the case. The only member of this clan not in custody is the family dog.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: theleveller
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:03 AM

Alright, all you people out there posing as GUEST:Guest, don't you think the 'Mr Angry' scam is wearing a bit thin? You've wound us up, you've made us laugh, but now the joke's starting to get a bit sick…and very boring. Give it a rest, now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:26 AM

Sorry theleveller, people are allowed to comment on current news stories. If you prefer to ignore the comments, fine please do so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Emma B
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:30 AM

Of course comment on current news is acceptable do you consider that this is?

From: GUEST,Guest - PM
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 12:39 PM

Ha, ha, ha, you snivelling lot. So that pathetic do-gooder Dr Jekyll has found out what's going on, has he? That'll teach him to hide his identity to protect his professional reputation. But that's exactly what he's created...me..Mr Hide. I can say anything I want to about you Richard Bridge, and you theleveller and you Emma B and there's not a thing you can do about it. You think I'm evil? Just wait until you hear what I've got to say next.......

or I'm sorry - did you take the wrong potion again?
It's not only the 'joke' that's sick!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:55 AM

Emma, it is headlines on the BBC today, so yes I do consider it a current news story.

Emma the comment (5th April 08) you refer to is from a current member (I think you probably know who). IP address can disclose a lot (pm a mod regarding it).


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:19 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: Georgiansilver - PM
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 02:57 PM

Great that she has been found but I guess there has to be the usual inquest by the Police, the family, the community and of course the good old press. I will be really interested in the final story as there would seem to be more to it than meets the eye at present. I am sure this was not just a simple abduction by a 'strange' man......let's see....time will reveal all!


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Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:43 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Shannon found- alive!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 07:22 PM

I've just been watching the scenes of the friends and relatives and neighbours getting the news, and it was like watching a miracle unfold. Very moving and completely genuine.

You don't see something like that very often on TV.

THANK GOD !

This thread has been closed due to its deterioration into personal attacks. Everybody step back and chill out.


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 20 October 7:18 AM EDT

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