The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4

Subject: The Tin Sandwich
From: GUEST,Johnmc
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 09:10 AM

Loved this inventive documentary on BBC4 last night.Some geniuses on it I hadn't heard of before, like Levi. Worth catching repeats.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 09:30 AM

Yep, Definitely worth a catch if you can.
Russell Davies (A Fine Muso himself) has a great way of engaging people in very obscure stuff.
Years ago, he did a TV Doc about the Bass Saxophone (The Lowest Of The Low) whitch started with a Bass Sax Quartet in the Dinosaur section of the Natural Histort Museum, playing, a wonderful arrangement of "Abide With Me"...All players in Tuxes...Brilliant.
All his docs should have a wider audience.
Quality Television, and as Johnmc says, Geniuses I'd never heard of before.
Me Too!!!
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 10:19 AM

I saw that twice it was so fascinating.
OF course now I feel extra guilty about the Honer Chromatica 280 c
That is sitting on my desk as I type this.
Unplayed even though I just had to have it over a year ago.
Oh well thats im[pulse buying for you.
Maybe I should figure out how to open the box now.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich
From: Kiss Me Slow Slap Me Quick
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 11:13 AM

I was hopeing to see Donald Black and a mention of The Hohner Highlander, tuned for bagpipe tunes. Still this was a good show, more please and more music from the included parcipients.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM

Wow, I'm glad I recorded it now! Will watch it tonight if I can wrestle the telly from the "line manager" for an hour, and will report back.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich
From: Les from Hull
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 04:00 PM

Yes, excellent stuff! It shows how difficult it was to include everything that everyone wanted. I could have done with more Rory McLeod and Brendan Power. But I was glad the 'so-called' harmonica playing of Bob Dylan got what it deserved. Now I love everything thing else about Dylan's work, but his harmonica stuff makes me cringe. The only person that got a good effect out of 'rack' harmonica was the much-lamented Duster Bennett.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich
From: r.padgett
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 04:26 PM

Yeah this was a great documentary, some of which went over my head

the bit about playing a C to play in G?

Overblowing and such like

But then not unusual!

Ray

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Mar 08 - 09:58 PM

Ray....
Agreed, some of it left me scratching my head too!
But, isn't that the point of programmes like this, to make us think?
Going away to try and find a way of "Overblowing" the Concertina.!!

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:40 AM

A truly excellent programme that treated the harmonica with the dignity it deserves! It gets on my wick when people (even harmonica players of note) refer to "the humble harmonica." I'm glad they metioned my favourite chromatic player of all, Stevie Wonder. It was disappointing to hear Brendan say that he wasn't a fan of Larry Adler, surely the man who did more than anyone to raise the status of the harmonica, especially the chromatic. Fair dues to the man, even if you don't care for his style. There wasn't really enough about the great blues harp players - the likes of Little Walter, Sonny Boy and Big Walter Horton didn't get an airing, though Sonny Terry did at least. The harmonica's place in regional folk music styles was underplayed, too. There's Irish, Scottish, Northumbrian, Breton, French-Canadian, even bluegrass and Cajun. There are also the more formal harmonica styles of China and Japan, often using the tremolo harps which occupied something of a back seat generally in the programme.   An hour wasn't long enough! :-)

A good place to visit: http://www.harmonica.co.uk - the National Harmonica League.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:46 AM

That's http://www.harmonica.co.uk

I hope!

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: GUEST,John from Elsie`s Band
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:27 AM

A truly excellent programme. I suppose there never is enough time to cover all the well known exponents of the instrument but one troupe, not named, but worth mentioning was the Morton- Frazer Harmonica Gang.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: GUEST,Johnmc
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:27 AM

I think I would differ differ from Les regarding rack players. Andy Irvine and Jez Lowe get a great sound.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 11:04 AM

Agreed about Andy Irvine et al with their racks, but playing a harp in a rack precludes you from using your hands to contribute to your tone, which is a big drawback. It's perfectly valid when the harmonica is adding colour, when it's not the ~point~ of the whole piece.   And it's perfectly valid if you like it, too! ;-)

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 11:45 AM

I've never actually seen Andy or Jez play rack harmonica, and I must say I assumed their recordings were done as overdubs. Both of them play really well, but I don't play with a rack because I feel a bit limited, compared to what I can do with the gob-iron in my hands. But expressive playing also comes from altering the shapes inside the mouth and through breath control. I was really thinking about blues playing at the time, and Duster Bennett could get great sound from his harmonica in the rack (he was also playing guitar, high-hat cymbal and kick drum at the same time!). Have a listen
But his best playing was hand held.

The simple line on crossharp (playing blues style on a harmonica in a different key) is that it is a bit easier to bend draw (suck) notes than blow notes, so playing this way transfers some of the more important notes from blow to draw, to give that characteristic bluesharp sound.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: meself
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 12:01 PM

John Hammond Jr is a terrific in-the-rack blues player. Jimmy Reed was another. Even the mighty Charlie Musselwhite plays in the rack at times, and a fine job he does, too.
..................

"a bit easier to bend draw (suck) notes than blow notes"

It's actually impossible to bend most of the 'blow notes' - #7-10 being the exceptions.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 01:10 PM

Well it's not impossible on a standard blues harp, they just get harder to bend the lower they are. The exceptional players get all sorts of extra notes on bends and overblows.

For the average player I can really recommend Suzuki valved harmonicas (Promaster MR350V). I've been playing them, and you can get good bends on blow and draw notes up and down the scale. They're quite expensive and so it's taking them some time to replace my Lee Oskars. I don't get that many birthdays!

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: meself
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:15 PM

Overblows are of course much different critters. If you can point me to a recorded example of a blow bend on any hole below the 8th on a standard diatonic harp - your Hohners, Lee Oskars, etc. - I'd be interested.

With mechanical tinkering, or innovative design such as that of the XB-40, anything is possible, of course.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: Willa
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:24 PM

Enjoyed all 4 Channel four programmes that evening on music. Fascinating stuff.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 08:01 PM

I play Irish traditional music on blues harps and I hardly ever have to worry about what bends I can or can't do to get missing notes, and if I have a tune that needs an accidental that can't be achieved with a regular bend I reach for my chromatic. Lee Oskars or Special 20s, retuned to the Paddy Richter tuning (a single reed retune), are fantastic for ITM. In ITM, bending is better used for expression, not missing notes, most of the time. Like an awful lot of harmonica owners I know, I have XB40s and they stay in their cases.

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/trad_irish_harmonica

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:48 PM

Briliant documentary.Shame there was only so long to fit everything in. I'd have liked to see more folk and blues players. But some of the stuff was priceless

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:53 PM

Dannecker harmonicas are the best in my opinion.and he will retune blues harps.
anyone that makes hand made harmonicas of the qualitty of Danneckers,deserved to be supported. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: The Sandman
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:58 PM

I have just recorded some harmonica tracks,on my new cd concertinas and.http://www.dickmiles.com
I also have some tracks on dickmilesmusic on youtube ,playing irish trad tunes.

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 04:05 PM

The programme about the harmonica is most interesting indeed, recieved a copy of it, recorded by family. A great learning experience indeed. but not an instrument I personally play.

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: The Tin Sandwich-documentary on BBC4
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:26 PM

Those interested in folk harmonica might want to check out the Gabriel Labbe obit. thread - there's a link in there to some audio and video clips of this accomplished player.