BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?

Subject: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM

In the UK a building tradesman who is either unqualified or insufficiently skilled, and who leaves a botched job is commonly referred to as a "cowboy".

(Fawlty Towers fans will no doubt recall the episode where Basil engages the services of O'Reilly to slap through a doorway and he does so without installing a proper lintel in a loadbearing wall, causing the "proper" builder to mutter "flipping cowboys")

Anyway, I wondered whether this phraseology was ever used in the US, or whether, as I suspect, it is purely a UK idiom.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Ebbie
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:50 PM

Hmmmmm. We have a cowboy president...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

In several professional circles, a "cowboy" is an impulsive usually male person who relies on a fast-draw and his own sharp-shooting talents, usually firing from the hip, to handle things, rather than doing a professional, workmanlike process which results in predictably solid results. A sort of fiery young turk who has not learned the benefits of contemplation and good process, who skates the rules for the sake of speed and excitement and testosterone. I've heard the expression used frequently in engineering and software companies.


A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 02:58 PM

I've heard it used in both Murray and Amos' usage. A similar term is 'hot dog'

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM

Over here used in the sense of Ebbie's post- reckless, impulsive, shoots from the hip without regard for the consequences.
Dictionary of American Slang (Lighter) has quotes going back to 1928, but it is probably older.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: meself
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:45 PM

Often used to denote reckless, impulstive or otherwise overly-bold driving habits.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: peregrina
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 03:50 PM

hmmm...
so a cowboy builder is one thing,
but a builder cowboy wouldn't last too long on the prairie or the rodeo ring.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 04:30 PM

I have heard reports of a Sign Written van in London - Something like "Singh and Sethi for ALL your building needs . You've seen the cowboys , now try the Indians !"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Bee
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:23 PM

Leadfingers, that's great - hope it's real (funny either way).

Maybe it's used out West in Canada, but though I know the colloquialism from general reading, I don't think I've ever heard it used in East Coast Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: open mike
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:29 PM

ha-rumph...
way out here in the wild west we respect cowboys.
Those of us who enjoy cowboy poetry and music do
not think about these negative images...associated
with COWBOY. The strength, endurance and co-operation
needed to drive herds of cattle on the trail through
rough terrain for little compensation would not allow
a lesser person to succeed under these conditions.

I rather think of the "Cowboy Way" as a code of
honor, hard work and loyalty.

"Ride for the Brand"

I have to speak in the defense of the cowboy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: meself
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:35 PM

Now that Bee has mentioned it, I don't recall hearing 'cowboy' used in the way we've been talking about while I was down east - but it's used that way in Alberta ... where at least the cowboys share open mike's assessment of themselves ...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 05:46 PM

open mike, ME, too! Though my dad used the term "cow man" for himself and his dad, etc., that was a distinction meant for the ranch owners, but not always or only. They hired cowboys and cow men both to work on their ranch. It infuriated dad whenever he heard the shrub refer to himself as a cowboy. It was quite an insult in his opinion.

There is also the expression to "cowboy up" which is the same as "suck it up" which is to say do what ya gotta do and quite whining about it. Sometimes I don't mind it, but I do not like it when the old "take it like a man" is implied. THEN it bothers me.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:21 PM

Here in the Northeast USA, Murray, the tern in the building trades would be "Hack" or "Butcher".

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 08:36 PM

I typed "Cowboy builders" into Google Images, and this is the first one that came up in response.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:41 PM

open mike, and kat, of course it's used that way too! But it's odd that you never really hear 'sheepherder' used the way Murray brought up!

For all you non Westerners, a 'sheep man' is just about the lowest, dirtiest, nastiest thing you can call a person out here!

Somehow, that insult never reached the Basque herders tho...I've never heard them referred to with anything but respect, even by cow men.

Could this usage have become popular after the films Midnight Cowboy and Urban Cowboy?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:45 PM

I'm a western Canadian. Around here, I've never heard "cowboy" used in the marginal-building-contractor sense, unless it was an ex-Brit speaking.
About ten or fifteen years ago I knew a guy who worked at a ski hill doing whatever job presented itself from carpentry to snow-grooming. He used the word "bo-jang" to describe improvised techniques and technologies--as in "we bo-janged the carb from an '84 Ram Charger into the #3 generator, duct-taped the seams, and let 'er rip". Similarly, a person who could get hot and cold running water to the kitchen sink, eventually, but to the wrong taps, would be described as a bo-jang plumber. I think "bo-jang" refers to the noise made when you try to fix something by hitting it with a bigger hammer this time.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 09:57 PM

Even in my dad's time there were sheep men and there were sheep men. The former lived on the land they ranched and had some respect afforded to them by even the cow men. The latter were hired hands for big conglomerates which owned the land and those hired hands, back then, were just as likely hired guns. My granddad was involved in a big row, guns and all, with a bunch of them. Thank goodness no shots fired, but there was a big to-do with granddad writing the rancher's side up for the newspaper in which he notes the local sheep men backed the cow men, NOT the corporate sheep men. Well, there were shots at one point because my dad remembered being told to get under the bed once because of it.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Rowan
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:25 PM

In the UK a building tradesman who is either unqualified or insufficiently skilled, and who leaves a botched job is commonly referred to as a "cowboy".
snip
Anyway, I wondered whether this phraseology was ever used in the US, or whether, as I suspect, it is purely a UK idiom.

It isn't purely a UK idiom; it's quite common in Oz, where it is also used in the sense of Ebbie's post- reckless, impulsive, shoots from the hip without regard for the consequences, as applied to any activity.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:37 PM

What about "grafters" ala the comedy series with Robson Green? Is that the same in the Uk as cowboy or slightly different?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Rowan
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 10:42 PM

Sorcha,
Your For all you non Westerners, a 'sheep man' is just about the lowest, dirtiest, nastiest thing you can call a person out here!
has its equivalent in Oz where, in some parts of cattle country, they disparagingly refer to sheep farmers as "monkey farmers". But those who drive cattle from place to place in Oz aren't called "cowboys" (it's almost always a term of disparagement, pace open mike); instead they're called "drovers" and enjoy the same esteem as open mike's cowboys.

There are other terms that are different too. Instead of cattle or sheep ranches we have "cattle or sheep stations" if large enough (more than, say, 1000 acres) the term "properties" prefixed by the animal type is used for enterprises smaller than 1000 acres.

The stealing of animals in Oz isn't "rustling" but,
for sheep it's "stealing",
for branded cattle it's "duffing" and
for unbranded young cattle it's "poddy dodging".

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 11:36 PM

Murray--

The first time I remember hearing the word 'cowboy' used in a US context in the manner you describe was in the 1972 Charles Bronson movie, "The Mechanic." Bronson is a hitman, and in referring to some competition in a disparaging manner, he calls them cowboys.

I'm thinking cowboys used to get a hoot out of riding into town, shooting up the saloon and riding out again--a lot of sound and fury signifying not too much. (Sort of like your average Mudcat thread.)

Whoa! I was about to tell you about the "second time," but now I realize this had to be earlier, because I was "in-country" in 1969-71, so I couldn't have seen "The Mechanic" till after. Anyway, as I came & went through Saigon, I heard that there were nefarious characters who rode mopeds downtown. Dumb GI truckdriver comes to an intersection, puts his arm out to signal left turn; the moped guy bolts past and peels off his expansion-band wristwatch on the run. They were "cowboys."

Since then, I have heard repeats of the same idea, not a lot, and probably more in movies than real life, but it is an American usage too.

CC

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Metchosin
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 12:02 AM

I'm from BC too and have been associated with the building trades for the past 30 years. The term "cowboy" for builders that do things in a high ball and rush manner, with little regard for the end result has been commonly used in the trades here for as long as I can remember...and were not Brits.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 08:32 AM

I bow to your insider's knowledge, Metchosin. Ever heard the bo-jang thing? I got that from Grouse Mountain. It struck me as wonderfully folkloric at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 09:33 AM

A grafter would mean someone who wasn't afraid of a bit of hard work. The implication would tend to be reliability and honesty - just about the opposite of a "cowboy" in this context.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 09:44 AM

wow! I think here in the USA the first thought if someone was called a "grafter" would be that they were dishonest, they embezzled, or were somehow corrupt!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:28 AM

I think the word "cowboy" started to get that use in England around the same time as "mickey mouse" began to take on the meaning of useless or second rate - like e.g a mickey mouse guitar would be a cheap,low quality instrument. Do Americans use mickey mouse in that way?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: MMario
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:32 AM

oh boy do we! (but not where mouse-minion s might hear. the mouse is sue-happy)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Amos
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 10:59 AM

OM:

You are of course talking about the sober, hard-working, cattle-driving cowboy; while I was referring more to the drunk, reckless, wench-chasing version -- often the same man at a different moment!


A

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 11:26 AM

McGrath, thanks for that. We enjoyed the first set of CDs of The Grafters and I didn't get the impression it mean they were "cowboys" in the derogatory sense, so I am glad I got that right.

Over here, it would be one taking graft, i.e. a bribe, etc. as MMario noted.

Then we get into grift...a group of methods for obtaining money falsely through the use of swindles, frauds, dishonest gambling, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Metchosin
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 12:00 PM

BTP, I've never heard of the expression "bojang" but I've heard jerry-rigged or Rube Golberged. The first sounding Brit and the latter American.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Grab
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 02:17 PM

Metchosin, more usually "jury-rigged", which has a specific nautical meaning of fixing a boom to the stub of a broken mast to get your ship home. It's since become fairly common to mean a temporary emergency repair. Quite likely it's been corrupted to "jerry-rigged", but that's not the real phrase.

"Jerrybuilt" is another thing altogether, which is something thrown together quicky and shoddily. Often this is also temporary, but usually it's a crap-because-it's-temporary kind of thing, as opposed to "jury-rigged" which is an anything-to-get-you-home improvised solution. With the name, there would seem to be a clear link to WWI or WWII, but I suspect it's older, and Germans were generally known for their quality engineering anyway.

As for "Rube Goldberg", there's a direct British equivalent of "Heath Robinson".

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Metchosin
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 02:40 PM

Thanks Grab, I imagine it is a corruption of the nautical term. A lot of ship's carpenters ended up in the house building trade with the demise of wooden ships. Some families have continued in that line for generations. BG

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 02:45 PM

jerry-built- 1859, Lonsdale Glossary. The term originated in England and imported to America. OED
jury-rigged, jury-legged- 1788, probably older. Jury-masts mentioned in 1666. OED
Definitions by Grab OK

Graft, grafter, in the American sense of to make money by dishonest of shady means in print in 1859, National Police Gazette (NY).
Not to be confused with other uses, of which there are several. OED and Webster's.

Amos has defined properly 'cowboy' in the western sense. A cow man, a property owner, could afford better quality wine and women when he came to the city.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 03:10 PM

"I think "bo-jang" refers to the noise made when you try to fix something by hitting it with a bigger hammer this time."

I had never heard the term "bo-jang" in the US, but reminded me of two things:

1) Jerry Jeff Walker's "Mr. Bojangles" (of course), and also

2) I my days working as a carpenter's helper, one of my boss/mentors would say, when about to embark on a bit of emergency adjustments via some sort of crude methodology, "it's time to get out the old ball-peen wrench."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Micca
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 05:24 PM

Metchosin, "Jury rig" was originally from INjury rig and was a temporary repair to a piece of shipboard equipment for either safety or to get the ship into a position to make,or have proper repairs.
As to "Bo-jang" I have heard the term to "Banjo" somethiing so maybe its a slightly "spoonered" version of this.
I have personally seen the ad in West London that says" you've tried the cowboys now try the Indians"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 05:48 PM

"You've tried the cowboys now try the Indians" - there was a stall, at the Country Music Day we used to have in Harlow run by an Indian family selling clothes and so forth, which used to have a sign saying that.
.................................

"Banjo" used to be rhyming slang for suit, as an alternative to "whistle" - "banjo and flute" or "whistle and flute".
..........................................
"Jerrybuilt" is a bit older than either of the Great Wars. It's in Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, in the original 1893 edition - "unsubstantial - a 'jerry-builder' is a speculative builder who runs up cheap unsubstantial houses, using materials of the commonest kind".

And the suggestion in Brewer is that it is indeed related to the naval term "Jury Mast"- but this is said to be "a corruption of "joury mast"... ie a mast for the day" from the French word for day "jour".

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Rowan
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:11 PM

it's time to get out the old ball-peen wrench

Which used to have the phrase (in Oz) "percussion testing". And it was still spelled "pein" when I was in school, although we were becoming accustomed to terminology from the US. For example, a hammer was often called an American screwdriver.

"Jerry built" also appeared in Oz with the meaning given by Grab and Q but there was also another term with the same meaning; to describe something as "brummy" meant it was more or less useless. It was a contraction of "brummagem" which I think my aging memory says was a term for Birmingham in the 19th century.

The UK version of "graft" also came to Oz more or less unscathed; "hard graft" had the same meaning as "hard yakka", ie very hard physical labour.

You've tried the cowboys now try the Indians has also appeared in Oz, as Woolgoolga has the largest Sikh population outside India.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:15 PM

The Oxford English Dictionary says that there is no supporting evidence for Jury Mast being derived from injury mast. That is landlubber folklore.
Capt. John Smith, 1616, spoke of using one in his "Descr. New England." It was defined in "Seaman's Grammar, 1627. A temporary mast to replace one broken or carried away.

Jerrybuilt is older than noted in Brewer (see prev. post). There is no direct evidence for the source of the term. In 1875, Ruskin wrote of rows of jerrybuilt cottages being put up. OED says "origin not ascertained."

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Grab
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:57 PM

Thanks for the gen on dates, Q. I realised I was being lazy by not checking an online dictionary for dates on "jerrybuilt", but I couldn't be arsed at the time. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: GUEST,Bob the Postman
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 09:21 PM

Rube Goldberg

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 09:35 PM

Online dictionaries-
Wikipedia has accurate information and citations (including from OED) for 'jury mast' and 'jury rigged,' but not for jerrybuilt- which is defined but not dated or provided with quotations in any of the links.
There is some unsubstantiated speculation as well in some of the links. In other words, be careful of accepting undocumented comments from the internet.

Only the OED has compiled all of these English words, including dialects and regional uses, into one shell. One may subscribe to the OED online, but it is expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 12:14 AM

Yikes, Q, I'd be careful calling Micca a landlubber!

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Grab
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:00 AM

If I wanted precise info, I'd be using dictionary.com, not Wikipedia. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 10:26 AM

There is an ACW song in which an Irish woman complains about her son being "grafted" into the army. First I thought it was an instance of making fun of the Irish mispronouncing things or using the wrong word for something. Now I think maybe it's deeper than that. In the American sense, maybe he was "grafted" because the rich kids were paying for substitutes, leaving the poor to do the fighting. In the Oz sense, maybe he was "grafted" because now he's in for some hard marching, drilling, getting shot at, and all manner of difficult things. Curiouser and curiouser [said Alice].

CC

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:37 PM

In this morning's paper, I saw a reference to the risk-taking account managers at Bear Stearns (the failed mega-mortgage banker) as "cowboys."

This is in the US, by the way...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:59 PM

Thanks, everyone, for your input, as always I have learnt something new ...

My main reason for enquiring was because I have written a parody of " The Roving Ploughboy", which is entitled, wait for it, "The Roving Cowboy", concerning just such a builder as I referred to in the opening post.

I wanted to know whether I would have to do a bit of pre-performance explanation in the event of performing the song in the States. I think the weight of opinion so far is yes, I would (except if I sang the song for Sorcha, who would pick up on it straight away !)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:22 PM

An interesting side bar as it were. During our Revolutionary War A loyalist militia was known as the cowboys they were either heroes (Loyalist version) or butchers (US version) They operated in the New Jersey area and were not above "Requisitioning" lovestock (Mainly horses read that as stealing) Neil

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:25 PM

Grab, I noted that the Wick article was referenced, and depended on the OED, which was my source. I also noted that onemust be careful with internet 'information.'

dictionary.com is fairly good, based on Random House, but the random House dictionary is a poor shadow of the OED.
The OED has an earlier citation for 'jerrybuilt,' and many more citations on every entry, than dictionary.com

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: GUEST,Janice now in western NY State
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 09:38 AM

The word "cowboy" is also used in the United States to describe a police officer who disregards the rules of proper conduct on the job.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Snuffy
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 10:28 AM

Enron was a "cowboy outfit"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 12:17 PM

"percussion testing" having evolved more recently to "gravity testing," but implying a higher degree of frustration.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Slag
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:37 PM

I really hate to defer to Hollywood but there is an old movie, "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" which gives a pretty good depiction of what a "Cowboy" is. John Wayne is the Cowboy, in case you need to be told. Jimmy Steward is the "dude" which is essential to defining the cowboy by contrast. Their conflict in dealing with the problem of evil defines the diferences and strengths of both men and both the Eastern and Western US cultures of that time.

The environment of the Old West was the condition(s) with which the cowboy dealt on a daily basis. He was responsible for his own well being and beholden to the man who paid his wages, meager as they were. He was a "can do" guy because if he didn't do it, it didn't get done. Law was non-existent in vast stretches so a man was his own law, true to his beliefs and his own assessment of right and wrong. He didn't have overseers as such, maybe the foreman, the ramrod. He didn't go to committee meetings and he didn't have a lawyer to consult when things were maybe perplexing to him. He didn't have a cop nor could he dial 911. He lived or died by his own lights and that was that.

Hollywood would lead one to believe that everyday in just about every town in the Old West there was a dramatic crisis that was going to end in bloodshed and a hail of bullets. No doubt about it, there were violent episodes and evil men who saw the lack of a structured legal system as an opportunity to prey upon the weak and unsuspecting. And a lot of so-minded men wound up on the wrong end of a rope for their troubles. But, contrary to the Hollywood depiction, the Wild West was tame by today's standard of violence in America. More crimes, more robbery and murder goes down in just one major city in a year than the entire period of the Old West. That's the truth.

A cowboy, in the best sense of the term, is someone who sees what needs to be done and does it, regardless of his own personal hazard. He's the kind of guy you would want on your side in a scrape. Unfortunately the word has come to mean someone who is reckless and impulsive in their actions. This, I take, as a corruption of the term. I've never herded cattle though I have known those who have and worked with and for those who have and I'll take a cowboy in leather over a plastic man in a plastic suit any day of the week.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:23 AM

In US usage, the derogatory connotations of the term "plastic cowboy" are generally imbedded in usages of the derogatory sense of "cowboy."

A sparkling, gistening, glowing example appeared quite recently, in reports of prisoners' lawyer's complaint against Gitmo representatives, in
Gitmo prosecutors taken to court:

"Are these prosecutors bound by the rules that are binding on all prosecutors everywhere?" MacLean said. "Or are these prosecutors going to be allowed to be cowboys, doing whatever they want?"

I'd expect that the judge(s) and the Gitmo prosecuters knew exactly what he meant, even if the term is less commonly used in that way than was the case a decade or two ago.

John

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM

Irish sergeant writes:

"They operated in the New Jersey area and were not above "Requisitioning" lovestock (Mainly horses "

Surely the term "lovestock" properly applies to sheep, not horses. Perhaps a Scots or Welsh non-com would like to weigh in on this latest instance of a perenniel Mudcat topic.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:22 PM

Typo on my part. That should have read Livestock and I didn't catch it before I submitted :~) Neil

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:47 PM

Bah

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Slag
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 11:42 PM

Boh

Subject: RE: BS: 'Cowboy' : UK usage only ?
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

BooH