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Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush

michaelr 16 Mar 08 - 06:54 PM
Sorcha 16 Mar 08 - 07:51 PM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Mar 08 - 07:55 PM
Amos 16 Mar 08 - 07:59 PM
michaelr 17 Mar 08 - 01:24 AM
Folkiedave 17 Mar 08 - 05:25 AM
MartinRyan 17 Mar 08 - 06:03 AM
Ernest 17 Mar 08 - 08:21 AM
GUEST,Terp 19 Mar 08 - 06:39 PM
Jack Campin 19 Mar 08 - 07:11 PM
Gulliver 19 Mar 08 - 10:51 PM
michaelr 19 Mar 08 - 11:00 PM
Gulliver 19 Mar 08 - 11:43 PM
katlaughing 20 Mar 08 - 12:47 AM
michaelr 20 Mar 08 - 12:49 AM
MartinRyan 20 Mar 08 - 04:54 AM
irishenglish 20 Mar 08 - 10:37 AM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 20 Mar 08 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 20 Mar 08 - 01:35 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 20 Mar 08 - 01:42 PM
michaelr 20 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM
irishenglish 20 Mar 08 - 03:40 PM
JedMarum 20 Mar 08 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 20 Mar 08 - 04:14 PM
JedMarum 20 Mar 08 - 04:18 PM
Donuel 20 Mar 08 - 04:49 PM
GUEST,Save the Mole 20 Mar 08 - 05:01 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 20 Mar 08 - 05:05 PM
irishenglish 20 Mar 08 - 05:07 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 20 Mar 08 - 05:11 PM
michaelr 20 Mar 08 - 07:20 PM
meself 21 Mar 08 - 11:42 AM
MartinRyan 21 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM
meself 21 Mar 08 - 04:31 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Mar 08 - 04:38 PM
MartinRyan 21 Mar 08 - 04:54 PM
Chanteyranger 22 Mar 08 - 03:00 AM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 22 Mar 08 - 12:05 PM
michaelr 22 Mar 08 - 12:55 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 22 Mar 08 - 01:00 PM
Ernest 22 Mar 08 - 06:11 PM
Nerd 22 Mar 08 - 10:23 PM
GUEST,Moleskintrousers 23 Mar 08 - 06:29 AM
michaelr 23 Mar 08 - 01:47 PM
Gulliver 23 Mar 08 - 02:53 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 23 Mar 08 - 05:16 PM
michaelr 24 Mar 08 - 12:04 AM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 25 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM
michaelr 25 Mar 08 - 03:26 PM
irishenglish 25 Mar 08 - 03:58 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 25 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM
Wolfgang 31 Mar 08 - 06:54 AM
Ernest 31 Mar 08 - 07:12 AM
Teribus 31 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM
Roberto 31 Mar 08 - 01:02 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 31 Mar 08 - 04:36 PM
irishenglish 31 Mar 08 - 04:44 PM
Wolfgang 01 Apr 08 - 10:39 AM
Roberto 03 Apr 08 - 11:41 AM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Apr 08 - 03:16 PM
Wolfgang 09 Apr 08 - 08:32 AM
Roberto 09 Apr 08 - 12:56 PM
Fortunato 09 Apr 08 - 04:07 PM
michaelr 09 Apr 08 - 07:48 PM
Barry Finn 10 Apr 08 - 01:42 AM
Ernest 10 Apr 08 - 02:00 AM
GUEST,Chicken Charlie 10 Apr 08 - 10:28 AM
michaelr 11 Apr 08 - 07:56 PM
GUEST,crusty4rich 11 Apr 08 - 08:46 PM
michaelr 11 Apr 08 - 09:08 PM
Elmore 30 May 15 - 10:43 PM
GUEST,Phil 31 May 15 - 12:06 AM
Elmore 31 May 15 - 12:07 AM
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Subject: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 06:54 PM

From Ramblinghouse: "Frankie Gavin will play in the White House for George W and friends on St Patrick's Day. The former De Danann fiddle player will be joined by singer Michelle Lally, Eric Cunningham on bodhrán, and guitarist Joe Fallon."

FUCK HIM AND THE HORSE HE RODE IN ON! Gavin has just lost what respect I had for him as a musician. Fuck you, Frank. With a two-by-four.

Disgustedly,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:51 PM

I won't go quite that far, but I am dissapointed. Didn't know he'd left DeDannan either.....


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:55 PM

Of course it might depend what they play and sing...


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 08 - 07:59 PM

Aww, Michael, come on now. Tell us what you really feel about it....,

Seriously though, it is not the man but the office. Hwo many folkies will get to say, before they die, that they played a gig at the White House?

(Not that I don't deeply sympthize with your senitments).


A


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 01:24 AM

The office has become irreparably tainted by the man. (not the first man, but certainly the worst.) Any musician who takes that gig is by association stained with blood.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 05:25 AM

How many folkies will get to say, before they die, that they played a gig at the White House?

The Glenrock Carolers turned down an invitation to the White House one Christmas and they are American and about two hours drive away.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: MartinRyan
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 06:03 AM

Let's keep a sense of perspective:
Click here.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Ernest
Date: 17 Mar 08 - 08:21 AM

Bravo, Martin!

Regards
Ernest


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,Terp
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 06:39 PM

Say it ain' so, Frankie!


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Jack Campin
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:11 PM

Do we have Frankie's set list for the occasion?

Including "The Little Pig's Lament for the Empty Trough", maybe?


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Gulliver
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 10:51 PM

Michaelr, there's no need for that kind of language here. If you can't express yourself in acceptable English then go somewhere else.

And check your facts. According to the Irish Independent there were representatives of both sides of the still tense political set-up in the North of Ireland, present, as described here :

US president George Bush will give over half his day to a small, neutral country on the edge of Europe. He will accept a crystal bowl of herbs from the head of this country and meet with other leaders from both sides of its borders.

After that, the entourage heads off to Capitol Hill, where a lunch will be hosted by the speaker of the house of representatives, Nancy Pelosi.

Mr Bush and Speaker Pelosi don't get along, so the chemistry between them will be captivating.

But the presence of Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, the North's deputy first minister Martin McGuinness and junior minister Jeffrey Donaldson, means the pair will keep up appearances and smile as they listen to the fiddler Frankie Gavin entertaining the gathering.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:00 PM

I don't give a shit who was present. To my moral compass, it's indefensible for Gavin to entertain at the White House. I wouldn't have played for Clinton, and certainly not for the current Resident (not that they'd ask me).

My language is an expression of the depth of my anger, Gulliver. If you can't stomach straight talk, maybe you should be elsewhere. The Mudcat is a bastion of free speech -- I posted the same at thesession.org, and it was quickly deleted. No such censorship here.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Gulliver
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 11:43 PM

Ah, I see, a troll. Well, I'm out of here...


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:47 AM

Not a troll, Gulliver, just very angry folk.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:49 AM

Calling me names does not invalidate, or even address, my point.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: MartinRyan
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:54 AM

Michaelr

Can I take it you would condemn Paul Robeson in the same vitriolic terms, then?

Regards


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: irishenglish
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 10:37 AM

Perhaps you should ask Frankie rather than condemming first. When Martin Carthy received his MBE (I believe it was that, or OBE? feel free to correct me) he said he wrestled with the decision. Should he take it as an honor purely, should he say hell no and not take praise from the monarchy? I believe in the end what he said was, he was accepting it for all the people before him-the Sam Larner's, and Fred Jordan's, etc. I agree with the above post that he might have just done it to say he played for a President, and if you do that michaelr, you might find that you need to condemn an inordinate number of performers, folk and non folk alike who have played for a President, or a Prime Minister, or what have you. I'm sure Frankie had his own reasons for doing it, so you have no right to condemn him unless you know that reason.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 11:21 AM

Thanks for the Robeson text. On seeing it at first, I initially expected something quite different (i.e., PR expressing disillusionment at learning the darker truths of Stalin's rule). I think it was Orwell who, in the 1930s, was scornful of those who felt compelled to support everything said or done in the USSR simply because they agreed with some of the work of Lenin, Stalin et al. In addition to the musical/cultural emphasis of Robeson's words, there's certainly significance in what he writes about "empty promises" made to black people in USA, and the typical attitude of cultural/racial superiority he mentions. Before Khruschev's denunciation of Stalin, how much was generally known of the truth about the Stalinist regime? Or was PR perhaps thinking that, in the long, long run, a Soviet approach was better "for the greatest happiness of the greatest number" than the Free Market Economics of the "West"? I don't know; but I've always regarded Paul Robeson as a truly great person, and certainly would not condemn him for the terms of his praises here.

With regard to modern-day performers refusing to perform for certain people, well, it all depends on what you consider of primary importance. Bush is easy amused; Krusty the Klown seems a more appropriate invitation.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:35 PM

"or even address, my point."

what infernal drivel.

There I addressed your point

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:42 PM

Oh...and will you be breaking all your De Dannan CD's/ records in protest? (if you own any)

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM

Well, I happen to have misplaced Gavin's phone number, so please ask him for me. And it's not about playing for "a" president but this one.

As concerns Paul Robeson, ABCD makes a good point when he says that Stalin's atrocities may not have been widely known in the US at the time PR was eulogizing him.

I think I'll keep my De Dannan vinyl records, but I certainly won't be buying any of Gavin's future products.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: irishenglish
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 03:40 PM

To my moral compass, it's indefensible for Gavin to entertain at the White House. I wouldn't have played for Clinton, and certainly not for the current Resident (not that they'd ask me).

That's having it both ways-he shouldn't have played at the WHITE HOUSE, and not for Bush. So which is it-no one should ever play at the white house, or just this particular one? Is this another music and politics thread, or just a condemnation of a man you don't know? My point was not that you actually could call the man, but that it is unfair of you to vehemently condemn the man without knowing his own reasons for playing there, and then, copping out by holding onto your De Dannan records while telling him to fuck off.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 03:52 PM

I'd be happy to perform for George Bush.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:14 PM

"you to vehemently condemn the man without knowing his own reasons for playing there, and then, copping out by holding onto your De Dannan records while telling him to fuck off."

exactly! and would you say FUCK HIM/YOU AND THE HORSE HE/YOU RODE IN ON! to Frankie Gavin's face...again, I think not. I wonder how you would have reacted to hearing that the Canadian band The Guess Who played at the White House for Richard Nixon back in the early seventies, I think it was...they were, however asked not to play American Woman.

I'd love to hear Frankie Gavin's side of the story, maybe it's similar to Martin Carthy's situation, you just never know.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:18 PM

I would probably play for any President who asked. It is the office that I honor and that is more important to me them the person in the office. I guess I'm one of the few Mudcatters who likes George Bush - and so I wouldn't have any problem playing for him. I sent him a CD last year.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 04:49 PM

leave that horse alone.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,Save the Mole
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:01 PM

Frankie Gavin is, in this holy week, playing the part of Judas in many people's eyes. He'll most likely get his thirty pieces of silver for the gig.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:05 PM

"He'll most likely get his thirty pieces of silver for the gig."

well that's not the way I see it, I fully support Frankie Gavin appearing at The White House, like it or lump it.....and I don't need saving by anyone, thank you

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: irishenglish
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:07 PM

Listen, for all we know Frankie might support some of Bush's policies. I doubt it, but look at this forum. Not everyone on here is a liberal. Just because he's a musician doesn't mean he's a liberal. Maybe he doesn't think about politics and what some guy on a folk forum thinks about his performing at the White HOuse.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 05:11 PM

'Just because he's a musician doesn't mean he's a liberal. Maybe he doesn't think about politics and what some guy on a folk forum thinks about his performing at the White House.'

well any credibility this 'arguement' may or may not have had went out of the window with michaelr's initial posting, so juvenile.

re De Dannan...are they still together?

Charlotte (enquiring minds and all that)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 07:20 PM

"...would you say FUCK HIM/YOU AND THE HORSE HE/YOU RODE IN ON! to Frankie Gavin's face?"

I would, given the opportunity.

"I wonder how you would have reacted to hearing that the Canadian band The Guess Who played at the White House for Richard Nixon"

Probably similarly.

"re De Dannan...are they still together?"

Nope. Their last recording was "Welcome to the Hotel Connemara" (2000).


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: meself
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 11:42 AM

If professional musicians stopped performing for and accepting money from criminals and scoundrels, there were be no such thing as a professional musician.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM

Come to think of it, would there be such a thing as Jazz?!!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: meself
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 04:31 PM

Not as we know it. People like Louis Armstrong were the type of commodity every gangster wanted in his club. You either played for the bad guys or quit - like my friends who dissolved their band when they realized they'd become the favourite party band of a certain motorcycle gang ...


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 04:38 PM

I'd imagine he might say he's playing for the visitors from Ireland rather than for the host. If they have to put up with sitting in the same room as Bush, why shouldn't Frankie put up with playing music in the same room to ease their suffering?


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Mar 08 - 04:54 PM

Some of them don't hear traditional music much, anyway, methinks!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 03:00 AM

I would consider it a great honor to play traditional music at the White House, whether it's occupied by a liberal or conservative.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 12:05 PM

well being Canadian, I wouldn't turn down (if offered) the chance to play before the Prime Minister..regardless of his or her politics. POlitics simply doesn't enter into the equation as to where and when I do gigs.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 12:55 PM

And that makes you part of the problem.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 01:00 PM

"And that makes you part of the problem."

from yours and other people's point of view, yes.. to many other's I don't think so..and I'm not going to apologize for it

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Ernest
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 06:11 PM

I wonder how you choose your audiences, michael....

Regards
Ernest


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:23 PM

This is kind of a non-issue. Most Irish musicians have played in front of people whose politics and policies they disagree with. Playing at the White House for a government function need not imply acceptance of the administration's policies. There are many reasons why people play such gigs, including:

(1) For the other guests
(2) For the honor of being asked to the White House
(3) For the money
(4) To put it on their resume or in their press kit
(5) to get an insider's view of the White House that few people ever get etc., etc....

Rail as you will, Michaelr, you won't convince too many people to condemn him, even those of us who might agree with you on many political questions.

One more thing:

You say: "Gavin has just lost what respect I had for him as a musician."

Why as a musician? Surely his skills as a musician haven't changed. It's really as a political thinker that you can't respect him. Well, it seems pretty likely you never really respected him as a political thinker, because you never knew f-all about his politics.

It seems to me that in losing your respect, he hasn't lost much...


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,Moleskintrousers
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 06:29 AM

What happened to Tim Edey as guitarist? Was he starting to upstage Frankie?


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 01:47 PM

I was expressing my feelings when I heard the news. It's sort of like finding your favorite science teacher exposed as a child molester. I suppose I should have said "Gavin has lost what respect I had for him as a person".

It's not a goal of mine to get lots of people to condemn Gavin; in fact I'm pretty much over this thread. It does, however, amaze me that folks can be so blithely able to separate their musical endeavors from the world's ugly realities.

There's an old German adage: "Mitgegangen, mitgefangen, mitgehangen" - meaning something like "you associate with `em, you get caught with `em, you get hung with `em". In other words, if you associate with murderous scum, you're tainted. Simple as that.

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Gulliver
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 02:53 PM

That's not an old "adage"--it's an expression from Karl May, and doesn't apply here anyway.
All I can say about this discussion is: "Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience".


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 05:16 PM

It does, however, amaze me that folks can be so blithely able to separate their musical endeavors from the world's ugly realities.


What fascinates me is, in a sense, the reverse. Much as I love music, in so many forms, I don't REALLY expect it to change the world - nor value it less for that.

Regards
p.s. That said, Michaelr - beir bua (Good luck).


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 12:04 AM

Thank you, Martin.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 12:21 PM

'All I can say about this discussion is: "Never argue with an idiot. He'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience".'

or if ignorance is bliss, some folk must be positively orgasmic.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:26 PM

Anyone else care to take a gratuitous parting shot?


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: irishenglish
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:58 PM

Michaelr, I have said my piece, but I will just say that what a lot of us had a problem with was your guns a blazing approach with your initial post, and I'm not even talking about the cursing! Like others, my initial thought was gulp, oh Frankie, how could you do that. You wrote- "It does, however, amaze me that folks can be so blithely able to separate their musical endeavors from the world's ugly realities." Well a number of us gave possible reasons for why Frankie Gavin might play for Bush, all of them perfectly plausible. Not being able to separate the music from the world's ugly realities is your own interpretation. Even if this administration was wonderful, as Johnny Cash said, "there's things that will never be right I know", meaning as President of the US, or PM of Britain, etc, someone's always going to have a beef about something. Which also means, like my Martin Carthy example, you yourself as an artist make the decison about what you should do in the end. Simple as that. By the way, let's use your own example-you say you wouldn't have played for this Bush and Clinton, but would you have possibly played if invited? Using past President's, who would you have played for? Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon? Everyone had a beef with each of them about something, be it domestic, foreign, education, environment, etc. Not so easy to choose when there's always something you have against them, so is it play or don't play for any of them? Your blood on the hands doesn't have to apply only to foreign policy btw.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 04:33 PM

'Anyone else care to take a gratuitous parting shot?'

You mean like,'And that makes you part of the problem.'

Irish you're right, I don't like having the door kicked open and someone come in both guns blazing,especially when, at that point, I had no idea what the person was talking about. I tend to have this urge to want to fire back under such circumstances. After some brief research I finally figured out what it was all about, the event had already taken place, so there's not a whole lot to be done, short of burning one's De Dannan records, which apparently our friend is not prepared to do. After all this I find I'm part of some problem or other, this I can't be bothered trying to figure out...must be from the saying, if you're not part of the answer etc...

Cheers,
Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Wolfgang
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:54 AM

Frankie goes to Washington

Article from the Galway Advertiser with a bit more of information and some quotes by F. Gavin.

My God, I. Paisley and G. Adams will also be among those listening.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Ernest
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 07:12 AM

Your God was among the listeners, Wolfgang?

I never knew Sceptics had a god... St. Agnos perhaps?

Regards
Ernest (getting his coat)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 08:30 AM

A quote from the man himself, could not have been put better:

"We are there to represent our own culture and Irish traditions and that is what we will do to the best of our abilities."

What better reason could anyone offer who plays traditional music.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Roberto
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 01:02 PM

Before this thread, I did love Frankie Gavin's music and I didn't like Bush politics. After this thread, I do love Frankie Gavin's music and I don't like Bush politics. R


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 04:36 PM

and I still love the Dé Danann line up with Dolores Keane and their first record

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: irishenglish
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 04:44 PM

Thanks for the link to the Galway paper, and as I suggested, Frankie did clearly think about what he was doing, whether one agrees with him or not.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Apr 08 - 10:39 AM

Ernest and Roberto,

you've made me laugh out loud.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Roberto
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 11:41 AM

Dear Wolfgang, I'd like to know what made you laugh, and as it seems you didn't express your opinion about the issue discussed in this thread, I'd also like to know it, you could be convincing, or maybe you would help us enlarging the area of laughing people. R


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 08 - 03:16 PM

Explaining humour is not really feasible - but, whether it was meant to be or not, that line of Roberto came across as dryly humorous, largely by virtue of the way the words were neatly balanced, and also by the way it put the argument in this thread into perspective.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 08:32 AM

Roberto,

McGrath has nailed it. As for my opinion, I completely agree with your post.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Roberto
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 12:56 PM

Thanks, Wolfgang. That's right. I was in a fighting mood. R


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Fortunato
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 04:07 PM

As Louie DePalma said in the episode of Taxi where Jim has torched Louie apartment: "...there is a number". A number just high enough to assuage my feelings of political resentment and not so high as to price me out of the gig. Oh and a few other things.

Cash
2 Sets: 45 on 15 off
I don't carry anything bigger than my guitar
Jenna cannot sing...
Dick leaves his gun at home


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 07:48 PM

A number just high enough to assuage my feelings of political resentment...

While I realize that this remark is probably tongue-in-cheek, it is nevertheless a sad statement.

Re-reading this thread, the following came to mind:
Frankie Gavin is quoted as saying "traditional Irish music and foreign policy should not mix and have no connection."

How many here would say that international sports (as in Olympic Games) and foreign policy should not mix and have no connection? The Chinese government's human rights abuses are just as egregious as the Bush regime's, if not marginally more so. Should they be ignored by athletes, or should the China Olympics be boycotted as a political statement?

Cheers,
Michael


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 01:42 AM

Is it Frankie's fault that after trying all these yrs to get an invite from the White House, it finally comes from an asshole that doesn't deserve to be there.

Barry


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Ernest
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 02:00 AM

Athletes taking part in the Olympic games always are (at least formally) amateurs and claim to be in for idealistic reasons.

Professional musicians on the other hand have to make a living by playing for various audiences (whose political opinions they seldom know).

Someone who claims to be into something for "higher" reasons than money has to fulfil higher standards than someone earning his money IMHO.

Regards
Ernest


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,Chicken Charlie
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 10:28 AM

McGrath had a point: we should review the program before passing judgment. Perhaps the lad intends/intended to perform the smash-hit single, "If You're Happy and You Know It, Bomb Iraq."

Seriously, I tend to want to live life as a whole person. I can't lay aside deep beliefs in any category--political, personal, religious, whatever--and "just perform," or "just attend," or "just whatever." My sympathies are with the boycotters of the world. Maybe they can't topple the tyrants. Maybe the tyrants won't even feel bad because they're being boycotted. But at least the tyrants will know that somewhere in the world there are people who know that their shit stinks too.

CC


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 07:56 PM

My point exactly, Charlie. Not standing up to injustice, or kowtowing to tyrants, makes one guilty of aiding and abetting.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,crusty4rich
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 08:46 PM

You are complaining that some guy played a gig for the U.S President yes? Correct me if Im wrong but wasn't he voted in by a majority of adults in his country? So if more than 50% of his nation surely support him whats so wrong with one musician playing for him?


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: michaelr
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 09:08 PM

Maybe if you read the thread...


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Elmore
Date: 30 May 15 - 10:43 PM

Always heard he was an a-hole, but saw him play The Burren in Somerville, Ma. tonight, and he is a great fiddler, Always was.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: GUEST,Phil
Date: 31 May 15 - 12:06 AM

I just love these Mudzombie threads!

Was being 'honored' by GWB any different? Are we even remotely familiar with the number of artists who cheerily posed with Bush-the-Younger at their Kennedy Center Honors? If not, you'ns have a powerful lot of hate and and "two-by-fouring" to catch up on here. Many, if not most, are already dead and you're not going to live forever either. Better get busy.

2001: Julie Andrews, Van Cliburn, Quincy Jones, Jack Nicholson, and Luciano Pavarotti
2002: James Earl Jones, James Levine, Chita Rivera, Paul Simon, and Elizabeth Taylor
2003: James Brown, Carol Burnett, Loretta Lynn, Mike Nichols, and Itzhak Perlman
2004: Warren Beatty, Ossie Davis & Ruby Dee, Elton John, Joan Sutherland, and John Williams
2005: Tony Bennett, Suzanne Farrell, Julie Harris, Robert Redford, and Tina Turner
2006: Zubin Mehta, Dolly Parton, Smokey Robinson, Steven Spielberg, and Andrew Lloyd Webber
2007: Leon Fleisher, Steve Martin, Diana Ross, Martin Scorsese, and Brian Wilson
2008: Morgan Freeman, George Jones, Barbra Streisand, Twyla Tharp, and The Who (Pete Townshend & Roger Daltrey)
2009(?): Mel Brooks, Dave Brubeck, Grace Bumbry, Robert De Niro, and Bruce Springsteen

And I'm thinking R. Reagan is a pretty sure bet on Mudcat so consider:
Katherine Dunham, Elia Kazan, Frank Sinatra and James Stewart stood together on one stage in 1983.

As you were.


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Subject: RE: Frankie Gavin plays for George Bush
From: Elmore
Date: 31 May 15 - 12:07 AM

Please ignore my previous post. It was stupid.


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