BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:18 PM

Personally, I think Hillary's too close to McCain, and he does 'Repulican' better. I know that's based on a general personal feeling, but that's why Clinton isn't my favorite candidate.

Jim Lad, we delete attack threads, and that's what yours was, as cloaked in worm-eating spite as it was, it was an attack thread and would have eventually degenerated into attacks ON you instead of by you. If you feel that frustrated by what other people post here, maybe it's time to back off a little. You're coming off like someone having a public melt-down.

Personally, I hate the copy/paste articles. Like somebody saying, "Here you moron, because I know you're too stupid to find it on your own." They get deleted if they're too long. Otherwise, I just scroll past or go up to the top of the thread and click on a post that came after the flurry of copy/paste messages (and the spluttering reactions they've inspired).

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Amos
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

I have not seen any sign that threads have been deleted because of their political bias. Some have been closed because they were redundant, or because their ratio of spite to acceptable content got a bit too toxic.

If you have had a thread deleted for reasons you do not understand, please PM Joe Offer and get an explanation. He is generally reasonable and easy to work with if not pushed too far.

Obama's appeal, as demonstrated in today's speech, is clear, and it stands out as much more commanding and insightful than either of Hillary or John in their dinged up battle armor, creaking and bloviating, do.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:46 PM

I want Obama to win, but I also don't think Clinton is the anti-Christ and will vote for her if she's nominated. That's what's so damned hard about this nomination, and it's why the vote is so close. Most people don't really hate the 'other guy'. It's also why the polls about who can defeat the Republican nominee are, IMO, wrong. Let whomever win the nomination, let them campaign, and the Repubs will be toast. Things will change after the nomination, and party factions will unite.

Is Obama's speech on YouTube? I missed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:50 PM

Oh never mind about the Obama speech - I see there's a thread on it. Gonna fire up the laptop and go U-tubing.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 02:59 PM

I have to laugh when someone starts pointing at Obama's preacher.

Obama is distancing himself from that aspect of an old mentor...sadly, I'd presume.

McCain, on the other hand seems to be collecting such endorsements

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:14 PM

I like and respect the idea that people can associate with those they disagree with, often strongly.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,Appaloosa Lady
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:19 PM

"For as long as I have been here, Azizi has consistently started threads, loosely based on racial issues and at the first opportunity, pounced on unsuspecting newbies who have done nothing more than offer their unbiased opinions. The list of apologies she has extracted while perpetrating these ambushes would fill a library.
Obama is using much the same tactics.
I despise those methods.
Now to the point of the cutting & pasting. If you have nothing to say, say nothing. These long, long threads of articles from other websites do nothing but interrupt the flow."


I love Azizi's posts, be they entirely her own or filled with relative information which she has taken the trouble to bring over here, for others to read.

It is not compulsory to read anyone's posts you know, Jim, just scroll on by.

Many have a great deal to learn from Azizi, for she is always good-natured, passionate about her beliefs, humourous and polite. I'm very happy to cut and paste, to other places, much of what she has written on this board over the years.

That is an goal I think you might seek to aim for Jim.

And now, back to the US election, which, being over here in the UK, we hear very, very little about, so I am learning from this and other threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:31 PM

I don't think we need any more personal shit. Let's all talk about the election in the good ol' USA. C'mon Canadians and UKers, you KNOW what it's all about!

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 03:41 PM

Interesting Jeri: You' finished insulting people and now you'd like to move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 04:14 PM

Polls depend on too many factors to be reliable in the primaries, as past predictions show.
At the moment, Clinton is showing a double digit lead in Pennsylvania. A few brief extracts from Monday's Inquirer. If one is interested, google the Philadelphia Inquirer and search archives.

"Views on Pa. Primary Race Continue to evolve"
"The latest: State is Important but not the clincher."
Philadelphia Inquirer, 2008-03-17; Larry Eichel, Inquirer Senior Writer.

The Clinton campaign, which leads by double digits in state polls, has tried to talk up the state's role, while Obama's campaign manager has called it "only one of 10 remeining contests."
"...Pennsylvania seems to have been categorized in advance as Clinton territory because of her success in demographically similar states such as Ohio, her husband's lingering statewide popularity, and support she has been receiving from the local political extablishment, led by Gov. Rendell and Mayor [Phila.] Nutter.
"The candidates themselves have contributed to such sentiment in word and deed."
......................
"But the Obama campaign has been sending out signals suggesting that it has not yet figured out whether to go all-out in the state. Which in turnhas caused Clinton's chief stratigest, Mark Penn, to accuse Obama and his aides of "turning their back on Pennsylvania."
................................
"Obama an company are working hard to register voters before the March 24 deadline. This is a closed primary- another factor that could work to Clinton's benefit- meaning that independents and Republicans may vote in the Democratic primary only if they change their registration in advance."
"Obama's overall lead in delegates......... allows him to afford a respectable loss in Pennsylvania.
But he abandons the state at his peril. The Democrats proportional system of allocating delegates- the same system responsible for making this race so close- forces him to make a serious effort."
"That's because a blowout loss would give Clinton a substantial haul of delegates, make a big impression on the superdelegates, and perhaps create the idea among voters that the campaign has taken a turn.
"In the end, PA isn't going to be downplayed," said Neil Oxman, a Philadelphia-based political consultant not working for either candidate. "This is not Wyoming or Mississippi."

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Megan L
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:24 PM

Gad but you Americans make a meal oot a simple election.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 05:48 PM

This election is kinda important.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:04 PM

Bill, OK, your Constitution is under attack; your social and personal freedoms are being threatened; your country is so many trillions in debt there is likely NO way out; you are fighting wars and your health system (as such) is a mess; you have lots of people in the country that the country doesn't know are there; your politicians seem to be responsible to no one, including the electorate. But playing that "this election is kinda important" card is just plain picky.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Beer
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 06:45 PM

Good one Peace.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,Voice of Truth
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:21 PM

It's too bad that someone who calls him (her?) self "peace", and has some very intelligent insights on the state of the country, cannot refrain from name calling and bullying any person whose opinion or statement differs from his (her?) own. I don't believe I or Guestguest (as far as I can tell) have ever attacked Obama supporters in the mean spirited and childish way that Obama supporters accord those with different insights.

If I had to judge Obama by the company he keeps, based on the nasty, confrontational and misogynistic postings from his fans (along with the fact that this board cannot seem to stop censoring many thoughtful postings that are not starry eyed over Obama.), I'd say he's not only a weak candidate, but a pretty nasty guy. Only I don't say the latter. I just see a very flawed candidate, and as I have previously predicted, even more disturbing information about him is to follow. I don't even think he's any more nasty than many politicians, I just don't think he's much different, or any better. I am sure he has no chance of winning this election. If that threatens you so much that you have to resort to name-calling, perhaps you should ask yourself why.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:31 PM

GUEST,Voice of Truth: It really is out of character for him. The debate is just a little too heated.
Take the time to get to know him and you'll be the better for it.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:40 PM

Voice of Truth: Understand this--I read your posts and I did not call you any names. That was spin-head who said I did. You have the bloody nerve to talk about my handle on Mudcat? Take a good look at your own. The day you wish to be reasonable, you will find me willing to be reasonable, also. But parrot that other thing and there will be nothing but enmity for a long time. Have a nice day, and stop taking your cues from the twit.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 07:46 PM

And one more thing: Guestguest has often attacked Obama to the tune of about five threads. AND, GG attacked me. I responded. And I will continue to respond in that manner until such time as she starts to be civil. I do not care whether you like that or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 08:52 PM

"It really is out of character for him."
Thought so. I should have checked.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:46 PM

Azizi - This is a serious question. Do you often use the phrase, "twenty lashes with a wet noodle?" Where did it come from? Is it an American expression?

The reason I ask is this: One of my new, grade one students forgot to do her homework and was hanging her head and looked ashamed. It wasn't important and I didn't want her to fear any punishment from me so I laughed and said, "I guess that means twenty lashes with a wet noodle!" It was obvious she didn't understand so I explained that a wet noodle wouldn't hurt very much and that it was joke.

The next day, her parents withdrew her from my class without an explanation.

I have turned that phrase a hundred times in my head and wonder where I picked it up and whether or not it has another meaning. That little girl really needed the extra reading help and now she isn't getting it because I said something her parents didn't like.

Please jump in Mudcatters, if you can help me understand how that phrase can be scary, inappropriate or offensive to anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Beer
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:51 PM

??????????? I have heard it also but have no idea.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:53 PM

Hi, Dianavan. I feel for you. The parents may have received a very different story by the time the child got home. I'm pretty sure I heard the expression decades ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 18 Mar 08 - 11:55 PM

And, when I heard it it was something meant to be funny. Like, how can a wet noodle hurt? It was never meant to be offensive, and certainly you didn't mean it that way. So, lord knows what made its way to the parents.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 12:00 AM

Voice of Truth: I have apologized to GG, and I should to you, also. I hereby do so. Please excuse me.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: mg
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 12:57 AM

I think Ann Landers used to use the expression. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Amos
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 01:30 AM

DV, it was a harmless expression, and something else is behind the action. It's been around forever.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 02:36 AM

I suppose you guys and gals know that this discussion about the saying "twenty lashes with a wet noodle" is what is called "thread drift", right?

Well ya can't blame this thread drift on me. Or maybe you can since I was the one who used that saying in this thread. And truth be told, I'd rather talk about the origin and popularization of that saying rather than to talk about Hillary Clinton. Frankly, I want Hillary Clinton to exit stage right* and "ease on down the road""** with a quickness***. But even when Hillary leaves the scene as the losing contender for the 2008 Democratic nominee for President-as I believe she will probably sometime in May 2008-regardless of her loss to Barack Obama, she's bound to still be the subject of national conversations.

But, back to the question about "twenty lashes with a wet noodle". I'm sorry that happened to you dianavan. I hope that you didn't get the phrase from my using it online and then used it to confer that the child's actions were so minor that if she needed to get punishment, it would be very minor and perfuntory. That's what 20 lashes with a wet noodle mean to me. I'm not sure where I got that saying from. I like to pepper my comments with folk sayings, and 20 lashes etc is one that I've probably used before on this forum. I don't think that I'm the only one who has used it [??]

Interestingly enough, when I entered "20 lashes with a wet noodle" as the key phrase into Google, the first thing on that online listing that popped up was dianavan's comment in this thread. {What??!!}. dianavan, I guess the story about what you said to the child could have gotten convoluted by the time that the little girl got home and told her folks. However, in trying to think about what she might have said, it occurred to me that maybe another factor might have been who she was. I'm wondering was the child a person of color? I hadn't thought about the connection between being lashed with the slavery experience of whipping people with lashes but now that I think about it, maybe that's why the family got upset by you using that saying {?} Or maybe the thought that lashing someone with a wet noodle was equated with some sexual play{?} I'm trying to think about this as someone else might do. I definitely didn't think about the slavery connection or the masochist/sadist sexual play connection when I used that saying.

Btw, mg is correct that this saying was popularized by Ann Landers. I found this article through Google-and will cut and paste :o)) only a small portion of it:

"Ann Landers' popularity grew quickly. She immediately established herself as different from advice writers of the past. She became known for her easy writing style and her often funny answers. She related to her readers as if they were old friends. She seemed to say exactly what she thought, even when doing so might hurt the feelings of those seeking help. Most people considered Ann Landers' advice to be good, common sense....

As Ann Landers gained fame so did many of her words. People began to repeat some her short, pointed sentences. One of the most famous of these was when she told readers to "wake up and smell the coffee." She would use this comment when advice seekers seemed to be denying situations that made them unhappy or uncomfortable.

Another well known Ann Landers saying was "forty lashes with a wet noodle." She would say this if she believed someone had done something mean, dishonest or just stupid. Ann Landers did not protect herself from such criticism, however. She often published letters from readers who argued against advice she had given. When she agreed with their criticism, she sometimes ordered the forty lashes for herself!"

http://www.voanews.com/specialenglish/archive/2005-11/2005-11-05-voa2.cfm?CFID=215045938&CFTOKEN=93298198

-snip-

So, there ya have it folks! That's all I'm writing about that saying at this point in time-though I think that a discussion dedicated to that saying's origin and popularization would make an interesting thread...

Again, dianavan, I'm sorry you had that experience with the student being taken from your classroom because of about that experience. Talk about unexpected consequences of words! Picture me shaking my head at how folks can end up misinterpreting other folks intentions and what other fokjs say and do and write. It's been some of that going on on this thread with regard to me too, but I'm not even going there.


*exit stage right was/is a saying popularized by the cartoon character Snagglepuss {I think}

** "ease on down the road" {meaning "leave"} is the song refrain from the Broadway show/movie "The Wiz"

*** "with a quickness" is a not too often used anymore at least African American phrase meaning "quickly".

Btw, my attempted use of humor {humour} in that cut and paste sentence shouldn't be interpreted as brushing off, downplaying, or minimizing the guideline that was reinforced in this thread about sparing use of cut and paste. I promise I'll be good from now on-though I wasn't trying to be bad {"bad" here meaning not good, and not "good" in the African American vernacular sense of that word}...
What I mean to say is that henceforth, I'll be more conscientious about following that cut and paste guideline. I don't think that I have exceeded it in this post...

Enough already...

Positive vibrations.

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 03:40 AM

Careful with the innuendo, Azizi (grin).

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 03:35 PM

No, the little girl was not a person of colour.

I think I used an expression that was too difficult for a six year old to grasp. My attempt at humour went right over their heads. This usually gives me the opportunity to explain how English speakers use words to make jokes. Most of the kids, 'kinda got it' but this child took it literally and accused me of lying. I tried to explain that a joke was not the same as lying but...

What she told her parents I'll never know. Regardless, I now realize that I have to be more careful about joking in class. I feel really sad that this child is no longer receiving the instruction she needs and I'm trying to get enough courage to give her parents a call. I just wanted to make sure it didn't have an origin or a meaning that could cause offense.

Thanks for you comments. Thread drift, my fault.

I agree, I hope Hillary drifts off, too. I think she presents herself as a privileged but bitter and angry woman. I don't care how smart she is and she certainly does not represent most American women. There are better role models out there.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Azizi
Date: 19 Mar 08 - 07:59 PM

Hillary's White House schedules were just released, and it seems that she spoke at a meeting in 1993 in support of NAFTA, the trade agreement that she wants everyone to believes she never supported.

Here's an article about this subject:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/03/clintons-1993-n.html
Clinton's 1993 NAFTA Meeting-Jake Tapper, ABC News' Senior National Correspondent based in the network's Washington bureau

Here's a comment that was posted about that article:

"Now we are really only just seeing the start of the Clinton Vetting begin.

Clinton where are your Tax returns?

Clinton where are your earmarks?

Clinton where are the Clinton Library donor lists?

Clinton where are the donor lists to you campaign.

Now the lies are starting to come out. When we get the whole truth we will see real vetting start".
-TorontoP, March 19, 2008

-snip-

I also believe that when we get the whole truth [meaning Bill and Hillary Clinton's tax returns from 2001 on, the Clinton donor lists etc], Hillary's poll numbers will go down.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Azizi
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 08:58 AM

Some folks here may be interested in this.

In light of an item in the newly released White House schedule that shows Hillary Clinton promoting NAFTA at a 1993 White House meeting for invited guests, Al Giordano, editor of the Democratic political blog, The Field, has given this homework assignment to his posters/readers:

"Scour the Internets and let's create an archive of every Clinton surrogate, blogger and inaccurate journalist or pundit that repeated the false "Clinton always opposed NAFTA" claim, quote them accurately, with links, and, where possible, ask them aloud - on their blogs and every where else - what they think of having been used to spread a falsehood".

NAFTA Comes Home to Roost (a Homework Assignment for Field Hands)
http://ruralvotes.com/thefield/?p=914#comments

-snip-

As of this 8:50 AM EST there are already 79 comments posted on this subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 10:27 AM

Recent reports seem to indicate that Hillary's poll numbers are way up.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 10:29 AM

They are for now. It's like doing the 100 yard dash as opposed to a marathon.

"Time will tell
Just who has fell
And who's been left behind
When you go your way and I go mine"

from the Gospel of Bob

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 10:30 AM

BTW, for the ultimate in ups and downs, check out Otis.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Emma B
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 12:55 PM

My personal feelings from this side of the Atlantic are that Hillary Clinton is by far the best candidate but, as I'm a UK citizen and have no vote, my opinion is somewhat irrelevant.

However I've never seen such a negative campaign against anyone since Blair was demon eyesd and you guys are supposed to be on the same side even!

I don't seem to be alone in these thoughts.....

The recent CBS poll which showed Hillary Clinton ahead of her democratic opponent Barack Obama also commented on the 'Media Treatment Of The Candidates'

'Voters say the media have been harder on Clinton than on the other presidential candidates. Thirty-one percent of registered voters say the media have been harder on Clinton than the others, while 15 percent feel the media have been hardest on Obama and 14 percent say the same of McCain.

Twenty-eight percent say the media have been easiest on Obama, while just 13 percent say the same of Clinton. Women especially think Clinton has been treated harsher than the other candidates, with 39 percent taking that position.

And thirty-nine percent of African Americans think the media has been hardest on Clinton. Just 24 percent of African Americans say this about Obama'

CBS news today

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:37 PM

You may be interested in this.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Peace
Date: 20 Mar 08 - 01:45 PM

We shall see what we shall see.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Amos
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:33 PM

A WaPo article discusses Hillary's false (and self-serving) memories about here touted experience.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 02:39 PM

I think that the big rally Chongo is holding today in Chicago for the Primate Anti-Defamation League will take a lot of votes away from Hillary. But it will take votes away from Obama too. Chongo may yet be in a controlling position to determine the Democratic leadership. He could be the Kingmaker. We could even get to see a REAL chimp in the White House next time!

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 03:30 PM

I like hearing objective opinions about the Dem race from other countries.

It is a real pain in the ass to be continually painted "anti-Obama" or a Republican or a McCain lover, when what I am is a non-partisan independent voter who has clearly stated, again and again and again that I won't for any of the above.

Thanks EmmaB, for sharing your perceptions here. It does get mighty shrill at times, and my perception of the Democratic party race is that the party is likely split beyond the point of being able to reunify.

Who is to blame for that? It doesn't matter to me, actually. I'd like to see the Democratic party collapse, so new parties can gain power too.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 04:07 PM

I'd like to see every damn political party in the whole WORLD collapse! They have stolen the democratic process from the common people and turned it to their own selfish ends.

And that was predicted by some of the founding fathers of the USA. They warned that democracy could be damaged or destroyed by the formation of political parties. They were right.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: number 6
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 04:39 PM

yer bloody well damned right LH.

God save the Queen !!!!

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 05:34 PM

Which one would you choose?
Among the Very Earliest Political Parties

Democratic-Republicans (1794-1826)

Proponents: Thomas Jefferson (became US president)
            James Madison (became US president)
·Believed in a strict interpretation of the Constitution.
·Wanted a small federal government doing very little.
·Wanted very low taxes.
·Wanted the state governments to have more powers than the federal government.
·Wanted to help farmers.
·Wanted to help the common man.
·Wanted banks to be in no more than one state.
·Wanted good relations with France.
·Wanted a nation of family farmers, living free of the government, and only for themselves, enjoying liberty in pure and honest farm work.
**************************
Federalist Party 1780s-1801

Proponents: John Adams (became US president)
Alexander Hamilton (not president. Killed Aaron Burr in duel)

·Believed in a loose interpretation of the Constitution.
·Wanted a strong federal government to do many things.
·Wanted the federal government to build roads, build canals, set up a strong banking system, and more even if it means higher taxes.
·Wanted to help business and industry.
·Wanted to help wealthy people.
·Wanted good relations with England.
·Wanted a national bank to control the money system.
·Wanted a strong United States doing lots of business and industry, trading with other countries, with people getting richer building a strong and wealthy United States.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 05:54 PM

Time for a return to an absolute monarchy ruling in God's name (or substitute your own supernatural being).

It is sad to see the Democrat wagon losing its wheels and plunging over the cliff to destruction.

An amusing (and sad) Op-Ed column in the New York Times today.

"Donner Party Democrats," Timothy Egan, March 22, 2008.

One quote- but seek out the article and read it.
"The original Donner Party made history for one reason: by eating their dead. Cannibalism- it was all they could do to stay alive."

NY Times
www.nytimes.com
Opinion

Click on columnists, Timothy Egan, "Donner Party Democrats."
After today, look for it in the archives.

Oh, well, a few more extracts-
"Deep in the treeless expanse of the West, they came upon one of the stragglers from the other party: John McCain. Once, he had been a maverick. Now he looked old and worn and lost. His own party had left him for dead, he explained. Called him amnesty man.
"He seemed harmless enough. .......They didn't give him a second thought."
-------------------------
And then, as the snow piled high in March, the Dems turned on each other"..............
At their lowest ebb, they looked back and again saw the straggler, McCain. He was stronger, walking with renewed vigor despite his age."
------------------------
"His party was united. What had been hatred for McCain was now hatred for the other party's preacher. They could direct all their historic resentments, their bound-up frustrations, against this preacher, the Rev. Wright. So long as they hissed and booed at his picture every night, they stayed together, saying the nastiest of things."
............................__________________________.

Will anyone remain of the Democrats, or will they all be carrion, torn to bits by the victorious Republican Party?

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 06:00 PM

Bill, political parties are not the only alternative to a monarchy... ;-) Far from it. You can have local, civic, provincial, and national elections for a great variety of independent-minded persons for all levels of political office with the existence of NO political parties whatsoever...and if you did, it remove a huge element of established corruption and influence-peddling from the process.

I suspect the reason this doesn't occur to most people is simply because they are already so accustomed to the idea of having political parties that they don't realize there IS any democratic alternative.

This would be comparable to the onetime common assumptions of millions of people who didn't realize there was any real alternative to:

hereditary monarchy
males only having the vote
slavery
public crucifixion of criminals and nonconformists
Papal infallibility
etc....

It's an assumption founded in mere habits and arbitrary customs...to put it kindly.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 07:50 PM

There are a number of cities that have so-called independent parties, not taking tha name of a national party.

All of them require organization to get candidates and a platform, and suporters.

"Don't know what to call him- but he's mighty like a rose."

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 07:59 PM

I am not recommending independent parties. I am recommending a number of independent candidates be permitted to run for any given elected office, and no party structures whatsoever standing behind them. I am recommending that political parties themselves not be allowed to even exist.

They all turn into self-perpetuating, self-interested power structures within a very short time, and they subvert the democratic process and turn it into a huge, cynical game between big power blocs.

I am also recommending equal funding and equal media coverage for all official candidates...from a public election fund. Let them be elected strictly on the worth of their character, their accomplishments, and their ideas...not on the net worth of their insider funding sources.

If this were done, it would utterly end the present old power establishment, of course. ;-) That's why it won't be done.

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 08:00 PM

Thy

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 08:01 PM

will

Subject: RE: BS: Hillary's poll numbers down.
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 08:01 PM

BE DONE!

100!