Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths

Amos 24 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM
Ebbie 24 Mar 08 - 09:07 PM
Amos 25 Mar 08 - 10:36 AM
Ebbie 25 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM
Amos 25 Mar 08 - 02:20 PM
Ebbie 25 Mar 08 - 02:55 PM
Jack the Sailor 25 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM
Bobert 25 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM
Amos 25 Mar 08 - 03:09 PM
Amos 25 Mar 08 - 03:23 PM
katlaughing 25 Mar 08 - 03:44 PM
Barry Finn 25 Mar 08 - 04:08 PM
Amos 26 Mar 08 - 09:30 AM
Amos 22 Dec 08 - 03:43 PM
Ebbie 22 Dec 08 - 04:20 PM
Amos 22 Dec 08 - 07:39 PM
katlaughing 22 Dec 08 - 07:49 PM
Bobert 22 Dec 08 - 08:11 PM
Amos 22 Dec 08 - 08:16 PM
Amos 22 Dec 08 - 08:29 PM
Ebbie 22 Dec 08 - 08:31 PM
meself 22 Dec 08 - 08:59 PM
katlaughing 22 Dec 08 - 11:55 PM
DougR 23 Dec 08 - 12:33 AM
Amos 23 Dec 08 - 09:34 AM
Amos 23 Dec 08 - 10:02 AM
jeffp 23 Dec 08 - 10:03 AM
Ebbie 23 Dec 08 - 11:33 AM
DougR 23 Dec 08 - 05:13 PM
GUEST 24 Dec 08 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 24 Dec 08 - 09:51 AM
SINSULL 24 Dec 08 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,beardedbruce 24 Dec 08 - 10:25 AM

Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:







Subject: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

With the end of this terrible Administration looming, I thought a catch-all thread for issues relating to cleaning up after the Rpeublilcans might be in order. There will be a lot of broken pieces, mea culpas, tua culpas, and possibly prosecutions among the aftermaths of Bushism.

For a start, here is an interesting analsyis by one time conservative Andrew Sullivan, a man who decided to support the invasion of Iraq, examing why he erred and the cardinal sins he committed -- including misestimating Bush's amoral nature.

What are the damages that need to be put right? How could they be repaired? Two that come to mind are the care of those broken in mind and body by the Iraq war, and the restoration of posse comitatus and the right to privacy. There are many others.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 09:07 PM

Thanks for that link, Amos. It seems that Sullivan's changed views have cost him some sleepless nights.

And it is far from over. He and other previous Bush disciples will sooner rather than later, I have no doubt of it, come to the awful realization their leader has betrayed them, betrayed their country and betrayed everyone who ever thought that America stood for something a good deal above what we now have to face.

I said in another thread that sometimes I think it would be only fair if a Republican administration got into office this fall, in order to clean up the unprecedented mess their party created. Someoe - was it you? - responded something to the effect that "Would you send in a three-year old to clean up a mess?" And I realized with finality that I was wrong.

I don't envy anyone who will next inhabit the Oval Office. As bad as we know it to be, I suspect that we don't know the half of it.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 10:36 AM

"...Conyers told the crowd there is one scenario that could trigger immediate impeachment proceedings against the president: "If Bush goes into Iran he should be impeached," Conyers said, noting that "many members of Congress" have signed their names to a letter warning Bush not to invade Iran.

The fifth annual Take Back America Conference includes forums that allow liberals to discuss important issues, including how to recover from the "ashes of this conservative era," as the Web site put it.

Conyers is one of the Bush administration's chief antagonists in Congress, opposing the president on almost every issue, including the Iraq war, health care, terrorist surveillance, and other issues.

Just last week, his Judiciary Committee took the rare step of filing a civil lawsuit against former White House aides Joshua Bolten and Harriet Miers for failing to obey a committee subpoena. Conyers wants to force the two to testify about the firings of nine federal prosecutors in 2006.

The House cited Bolten and Miers for contempt of Congress last month."




No, you're right, Eb, it ain't over yet. But just like George Marshall we need to think about the plan for repairing the destruction of the Neocon's war on America, as well as defusing the radical Muslim's war on AMerica and the radical Christian right's war on America. All these arrogant and fanatic "believers" have wrought harm that needs undoing.



A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 01:09 PM

Did anyone besides myself last night watch two-part series on the Iraq war? Tonight they will air the second half.

I watched it up until Colin Powell was addressing the United Nations and then I had to take the dog out; it had already been running for two hours and I don't know hom much longer it went.

But it is a hard-hitting, thorough, step by step expose of what and who led up to the war. If Americans watch it and internalize it, it is hard to believe that they/we would not rise up in outcry...

I'll watch the second part tonight.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:20 PM

Notice the "success of the surge" is beginning to crumble the minute the Mehdi army begins to activate its protest again. Sigh...

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:55 PM

Somehow my italicized word fell out of the above paragraph. That series is on Frontline, on PBS.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM

Ebbie, and everyone else, you can watch it here.

Bush's War


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:02 PM

Cleaning up after Bush will make Katrina look like a day in the park...

If there is one reason one earth for McCain to get elected it would be because a Repub would have to clean up behind another Repub... That's kinda justice...

One thing is for sure, whomevet gets this nasty little job is gonna have no other choice but to rescend the Bush tax cuts... This is a given...

(But, Bobert, the rich have used that money to creat jobs...)

That, for starters, is the biggest lie that we've heard since the mushroom cloud days...

As for Iraq... What a piss poor policy "The Surge" has been... The only reason that vilence went down is because the cornerstone of "The Surge" is paying people not to kill US... What a joke...

But, geeze... What a mess...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:09 PM

ABC reports:

"The Iraqi defector known as "Curveball," whose fabricated stories about mobile biological weapons labs helped lead the U.S. to war in Iraq five years ago, says he is not to blame for the war and that he never said Iraq possessed weapons of mass destruction, according to a new report released this weekend in the German magazine Der Spiegel. "


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:23 PM

Curveball is -- in any case-- a well-documented liar. So it is unlikely he would own up to what he told the Germans, who passed it to the Americans, who acted dumber than a box of BBs about it.


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:44 PM

Ebbie, I watched the first hour, then had to turn it off. I was feeling under the weather a bit, anyway, and it just made it worse! I thought it was very well done and I will try to watch more of it, but it was heavy going...the word inexorable comes to mind. I have a great sense of disbelief that the American people are not in the streets demanding the shrub's head, etc. It almost feels as though we are living in a Kafka story, it is so unreal.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 04:08 PM

Bobert, McCain will not clean up if he's elected. He's gonna keep at the war, no change here. A clean up has to be based on an end to the was, phsyiologically & economically, this can't begin to happen until the war's ended. The "Clean Up" will also won't happen unless our Vets are properly cared for & I don't see any of this happening aanytime soon. The youth will never trust this government again just as the youth of the 60's, we still don't trust or have faith. They still haven't taken care of the Vets from Viet Nam. My singing partner only recently (past few yrs) was diagnosed PTS disorder, finally he may start to recieve some diability. My brother will never be what he once was & they won't help him either. So as far as the vets are concerned we'll be taking bad care of them for their lifetime & paying the costs that will follow. This government can't clean itself up after a natural disaster where every one can agree to, never mind on the havoc that's rained down on us these past 8 yrs. A start would be a repeal of all of the Patriot Act & to restore all of our rights & liberties. A dismemberment of media monolopies, make poliicans divest in anything that puts them within the confins of conflicts of interests. Rehab the electorial system & do away with the college & speaking of colleges, we need a national education & a national health system, SS also needs a revamp as well as medicare & medicade. But I believe the first move should be a clean up of those that put US in our present day position. Those that knowingly sent US into war should be held accountable & tried in a world court (as soon as we join it). The companies that are found to have profitted illegally or stole/cheated need to reimburse the nation & their officers need to also stand trail in crimminal courts. We need a nation that apologizes to the world for it's conduct & we need the world back on our side, no matter what it takes. We need them to live with us, they no longer need US we need them. It seems to me that every department in our government is broken, from defense to energy, from the state dept to agri. They're top heavy & should be run more like a business. The enviorment needs a tremdous amount of TLC & money & "Homeland Security" needs to be buried along with all other 'Cold War' agencies. The pent-a-gone needs so much rehab it should be torn down & rebuilt from scratch. The qualifications to run for any public office should start with an IQ of over 100 (that would've left out both Bushes) & a lie detector test, have you ever commited a felony? Have you ever cheated on your taxes? Have you ever deserted? Rehash campain financing. Restore checks & balances.   
This could've all been accomplished slowly over the last 8yrs by the decider but because he wasn't up for the job & hit a few bumps on the road home it'll take the next at least 4 adminstrations more & the time & effort to come close to getting us back to sq 1 never mind trying to put US in front of where we where 8 yrs ago. Good luck to US all.

Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 09:30 AM

Quote of the day:

"If we didn't have this war going in Iraq, this thing would be a piece of cake. They could drop that much money through the cracks every lunch hour at the Pentagon."
Former U.S. presidential contender and special envoy for the U.N. food aid agency, George McGovern, who is pressing U.S. lawmakers to guarantee funds for overseas child nutrition programmes. He says mandatory funding for the McGovern-Dole programme - which sends U.S. crops to poor schoolchildren overseas - would sail through Congress were it not for the hundreds of billions of dollars being poured into Iraq. "


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 03:43 PM

In an interesting article the WaPo presents the case that the Department of Defense, throughout the Bush years, has encroached feeply into civilian affairs and compromised the Consittution.


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 04:20 PM

From the link: "Many of Cheney's and Rumsfeld's cronies still work at the Pentagon and elsewhere. Rumsfeld's successor, Robert M. Gates, has spoken of increasing America's "soft power," its ability to attract others by our example, culture and values, but thus far, this push to reestablish civilian leadership has been largely talk and little action. Gates is clearly sincere about chipping away at the military's expanding role, but many of his subordinates are not."

Question: Will Obama have the strength, the willpower, the insight to back the issues that must be addressed?

I think he has the best chance to do it of anyone I can think of but unless he has some excellent field marshals the likelihood of reform and a sustained new direction isn't great.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 07:39 PM

On Christmas Eve 1992, defeated President George H.W. Bush pardoned Caspar Weinberger, Elliott Abrams, Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, Clair George, and Robert McFarlane for their Iran-Contra crimes. Not one served a single day in jail; Weinberger was about to go on trial and would have tied Bush himself to the scandal.

Will George W. Bush follow his father's precedent and pardon Dick Cheney and his other criminal co-conspirators this Wednesday on Christmas Eve?

Last week, Cheney was all over TV setting the stage for pardons. He admitted he personally approved torture, but insisted it destroyed Al Qaeda and saved American lives.

According to a powerful article by David Rose in Vanity Fair, the Bush-Cheney torture regime accomplished exactly the opposite. The torture photos from Abu Ghraib helped Al Qaeda's recruitment soar. U.S. officers in Iraq say torture-inspired attacks on U.S. soldiers were the #1 and #2 cause of soldiers' deaths. CIA analysts say the "intelligence" produced by torture was worthless.

On November 20, Rep. Jerrold Nadler introduced H.Res. 1531 to urge Bush not to pardon his criminal co-conspirators. Nadler's bill has 9 co-sponsors but we need every Representative (and Senator) to speak out against corrupt self-pardons.

If you haven't signed our petition to Congress, please join over 48,000 who have:
http://democrats.com/nadler-pardons


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 07:49 PM

Amos, how can he pardon them if they haven't been charged, tried, and convicted first? Not arguing, just wondering how that would be?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Bobert
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 08:11 PM

Well, seemed as if I had seen this thread before and, well...

...I had...

(Halfheimerzes ain't half bad...)

But really, yeah, there is this very incidious thing that has gone on where the military has crept so close to runnin' the show and, it and the economy, will be Obama's largest challenge...

Obama has been smart in bringing in some high ranking military folks because he will need them if he is going to take on the Pentagon...

Whether or ot these folks will be loyal to Obama or their ol' buddies remains to be seen but there would be no civilians who would have stood a chance...

So, I guess, we'll just have to wait and see if Obama can cajole these military people to take on their ol' buds...

Might work... Might not...

B~


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 08:16 PM

I suppose he could do a pardon for "all crimes real or imaginary, disclosed or not, discovered or not, prosecuted or not, committed or not....". That's th ekind of doublespeak he's so good at.

A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 08:29 PM

In a recent interview with ABC News, Vice President Dick Cheney confirmed that, in the period after the 9/11 attacks, the Bush administration embraced a policy of torturing suspected al Qaeda detainees. Cheney did not refer to the Bush administration's practices as "torture." In fact, he insisted that "we don't do torture. We never have." He did admit, however, that he had supported the waterboarding of 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Muhammad. Waterboarding -- a technique in which water is poured over a prisoner's face to simulate drowning -- is considered torture under international law and has been prosecuted as a war crime by the United States. According to Malcolm Nance, a counterterrorism expert and former instructor and chief of training at the U.S. Navy's Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape school, waterboarding "is torture, without doubt." 

TORTURE DOESN'T WORK: In a recent story in Vanity Fair, journalist David Rose reports that the conclusion of numerous counterterrorist officials he spoke to is "unanimous: not only have coercive methods failed to generate significant and actionable intelligence, they have also caused the squandering of resources on a massive scale through false leads, chimerical plots, and unnecessary safety alerts." The use of torture has made Americans less safe. Former Air Force interrogator and author of How to Break a Terrorist Matthew Alexander (a pseudonym) recently wrote that "the No. 1 reason foreign fighters flocked [to Iraq] to fight were the abuses carried out at Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo." Alexander, who used non-violent methods of interrogation to obtain information on the whereabouts of terrorist leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, argued, "Our policy of torture was directly and swiftly recruiting fighters for al-Qaeda. ... Torture and abuse cost American lives."

TORTURE IS A VIOLATION OF OUR LAWS AND VALUES: Arguments about the practical utility of torture distract from the more important point that torture is a violation of U.S. law, and its use represents a significant abdication of the U.S. commitment to human rights. The U.S. federal anti-torture statute, formally known as Title 18, Part I, Chapter 113C of the U.S. Code, "defines the crime of torture and prescribes harsh punishments for anyone who commits an act of torture outside of the United States." Alexander wrote "there's no doubt in my mind" that the tactics allowed by the Bush administration "are illegal." The U.N. Committee Against Torture has been very clear in demanding that the U.S. "should rescind any interrogation technique...that constitutes torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment, in all places of detention under its de facto effective control, in order to comply with its obligations" under the U.N. Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment.

HOLDING PERPETRATORS ACCOUNTABLE: The Bush administration's embrace of torture marks a significant reversal of decades of U.S. policy. Back in 2006, then-senator Barack Obama said that torture "is not how a serious Administration would approach the problem of terrorism," and declared the use of torture to be "a betrayal of American values." While Vice President-elect Biden didn't rule out future prosecution of Bush administration officials involved in torture, he made clear yesterday that "President-elect Obama and I are not sitting thinking about the past. We're focusing on the future." Whatever legal course is chosen by the new administration to deal with recent abuses, the damage done to America's reputation by the use of torture -- making a mockery of U.S. claims to uphold human rights -- has been incalculable.



ADMINISTRATION -- CHENEY ECHOES NIXON: IF THE PRESIDENT DOES IT DURING WARTIME, IT IS LEGAL: On Fox News Sunday yesterday, host Chris Wallace asked Vice President Cheney, "If the President, during war, decides to do something to protect the country, is it legal?" "General proposition, I'd say yes," adding, "I think what we've done has been totally consistent with what the Constitution provides for." Cheney's answer is eerily reminiscent of former President Richard Nixon's claim that "when the president does it, that means that it is not illegal." Nixon made the comment in his famous interview with David Frost, responding to a question about whether "there are certain situations" in which "the president can decide that it's in the best interests of the nation or something, and do something illegal." In fact, numerous courts have ruled that the Bush administration has overstepped the bounds of the Constitution. In August 2006, U.S. District Judge Anna Diggs Taylor ruled that "the National Security Agency's warrantless surveillance program is unconstitutional, delivering the first decision that the Bush administration's effort to monitor communications without court oversight runs afoul of the Bill of Rights and federal law." The fact that Cheney's Nixon-esque comment came during an interview with Wallace is ironic, considering that Cheney recently thanked Wallace for defending the Bush administration against comparisons to Nixon.

ECONOMY -- BANKS CANNOT ACCOUNT FOR THEIR BAILOUT BILLIONS: The AP recently contacted 21 banks that had received at least $1 billion in taxpayer-financed bailout funds and found that the banks were unable or unwilling to disclose how they have used the money. The AP asked the banks four questions: How much has been spent? What was it spent on? How much is being held in savings, and what's the plan for the rest? However, "[n]one of the banks provided specific answers." In fact, "[s]ome banks said they simply didn't know where the money was going," and "no bank provided even the most basic accounting for the federal money." Earlier this month, a congressionally-appointed bailout oversight board found that the Treasury Department has not sufficiently monitored how banks are using Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP) funds. "If the funds committed under TARP...are not merely no-strings-attached subsidies to financial institutions, then it seems essential for Treasury to monitor whether those funds are used for those intended purposes," the report stated. "Treasury cannot simply trust that the financial institutions will act in the desired ways; it must verify." The panel's chairman, Elizabeth Warren, "said her oversight panel will try to force the banks to say where they've spent the money. 'It would take a lot of nerve not to give answers,' she said."

ETHICS -- BAILED-OUT WALL STREET EXECUTIVES STILL USING EXPENSIVE PRIVATE JETS: Last month, Big Three automaker CEOs were ridiculed by members of Congress for taking private jets to Washington to plea for a federal bailout. Subsequently, GM put two of its five corporate jets out of service, and the executives drove to Washington for a second round of bailout hearings. But Wall Street's similar excesses have largely avoided scrutiny. The AP reports today that "[s]ix financial firms that received billions in bailout dollars still own and operate fleets of jets to carry executives to company events and sometimes personal trips." Insurance company AIG, which received $150 billion in bailout funds, has seven planes, making it "one of the largest fleets among bailout recipients." Citigroup, Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JP Morgan, and Morgan Stanley all still own aircraft for executive travel -- after receiving a combined $120 billion in bailouts. A separate AP analysis today found that "the 116 banks that so far have received taxpayer dollars to boost them through the economic crisis gave their top tier of executives nearly $1.6 billion in salaries, bonuses and other benefits in 2007."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 08:31 PM

It reminds me of a notorious slum lord/lady with a number of properties in Juneau. When I took over the rental properties from the panicked absentee owner, I found a clause in the Rental Agreement form that I immediately removed:

"I agree to hold harmless the owner of (this building) and agent thereof in the event of damage or injury to myself or my belongings or of anyone else or their belongings residing in this unit from any hazard(s) whether known or unknown..."

As I told the owner, there was no way such a caveat would have held up in court- better to remove it and not appear such a fool...

Bush may try something similar.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: meself
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 08:59 PM

Did nobody else see the interview with Bush a few weeks ago? I found it so astonishing that I've almost come to believe I dreamed it, since it seems to have received no attention ... I don't know who it was with, or on what show; I just stumbled onto the tail end of it while channel-surfing. Anyway, Bush sounded almost apologetic as he said that he should not have relied so much on the intelligence he had received in the build-up to the Iraq invasion, and that his cocky, belligerent rhetoric had been unfortunate and unwise (not his exact words, but that was the gist of what he said). He actually seemed regretful. I, for one, was in shock ...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Dec 08 - 11:55 PM

I missed that, meself, but I haven't had the stomach to watch him in years.

Just for a humour break: 2008 Year in Review.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: DougR
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 12:33 AM

Ho Hum. Mudcatters writing history in advance. Typical.

Amos, this thread might be more appropriate after January 20, 2009. George W. Bush is STILL president until then.

DougR


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 09:34 AM

Not in any real sense.


A


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Amos
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 10:02 AM

The Deep Denial of Dick (NYT)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: jeffp
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 10:03 AM

Bush could pardon Cheney, et al, in the same way that Ford pardoned Nixon.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 11:33 AM

There would be some justice in that! If Bush pardoned everybody else that was involved in this government and then no one pardoned him, Bush would be the only one to go to prison. Rich.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: DougR
Date: 23 Dec 08 - 05:13 PM

Ebbie; I wouldn't cook up any care packages for Bush to enjoy in a federal prison just yet. Wishin' ain't gettin.

DougR


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 09:26 AM

Mudcatters writing history in advance. Typical.

At least preferable to your perennial re-writing of history, Douggie-Boy.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 09:51 AM

Bush's Legacy May End Up Better Than You Think: Kevin Hassett

Commentary by Kevin Hassett

Dec. 22 (Bloomberg) -- The George W. Bush farewell tour took off in earnest last week, with the president granting interviews left and right. The image that emerged was surprisingly upbeat. His party is in tatters, the economy is the bleakest in a generation, and yet Bush played the part of a man confident that history will side with him.

He recognizes that times are tough. "It turns out this isn't one of the presidencies where you ride off into the sunset, you know, kind of waving goodbye," Bush told a Washington audience. That's the understatement of the century.

Bush's popularity is about the lowest on record for postwar presidents. A recent Gallup Poll ranked his 29.4 percent approval rating as the 10th-worst quarterly ranking since 1945. Only Harry Truman and Richard M. Nixon saw lower ratings.

With those numbers, one might forgive Bush if he snuck out of town and entered the witness-protection program. Instead, we get a concerted effort at legacy management. Is this campaign hopeless, or might history judge him favorably?

The argument for his eventual vindication is stronger than many might expect.

On foreign policy, Bush emphasizes that he pursued a "freedom agenda" and spread freedom to Iraq. While the Iraqi future is far from clear, it is possible that the country becomes a democracy and a reliable ally of the U.S. If that transformation is completed, then it could well be viewed as a turning point in the war on terror.

On the home front, to virtually everyone's surprise, we've avoided a terrorist attack since Sept. 11.

Hard to Argue

So it is hard to argue that Bush's policies were a failure. The unpopular war may have trashed his party, but it didn't have the same effect on the country.

Turning to the economy, the pro-Bush argument becomes more of a stretch. First, his accomplishments were few. He passed a relatively small tax cut and was unable to hold the line on government spending. As a result, the deficit skyrocketed and set the stage for his tax cuts to be reversed. The prescription- drug benefit wasn't paid for, and the jury is out on his No Child Left Behind education policy.

The insignificance of Bush's economic policy, though, might work to his advantage. We are in the midst of the worst recession of our generation, yet it is hard to attribute this crisis to anything that Bush actively did. If his large deficits produced skyrocketing interest rates that crushed the economy, then the argument that Bush caused the mess we're in might hold water. If he was the one who deregulated the financial sector, then we could justifiably blame him for our predicament.

Before Bush

Instead, the forces that allowed the financial sector to blow up -- deregulation, for example -- were in place when he took office. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who failed to stem the crisis, was inherited from the previous president. Bush even tried to avert the crisis early and often in his presidency, as he sought strict limits on the actions of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage-finance companies that were at ground zero of the crisis.

Bush was unable to stop the housing crisis and its fallout, but he tried. In that failure, he is hardly alone. The crisis has touched just about everyone, wiping out wealth in countries run by both liberals and conservatives.

All told, it seems unlikely that history will blame Bush for the financial crisis. He may even receive credit for helping to minimize its impact.

Diminishing Importance

Capital markets, after all, have been anticipating a recession for most of this year. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke have defended their extraordinary actions as necessary insurance against a depression. If a disaster is avoided, if the recession begins to ease in the coming months and the bailout frenzy ends, then the terrible economy we see before us will diminish in historical importance.

This is the 11th recession of the postwar period, and 33rd in the National Bureau of Economic Research's business cycle chronology, starting in 1854. Most presidents have a recession or two during their term, but it is hard to think of one that historians blame on a president. Bush's tenure would have been unusual if it hadn't had a recession. It is hard to see why he would bear more blame than has been the historical norm.

It may well be that Paulson and Bernanke have made things worse, and we are going to enter a depression. If we do, then historians will view Bush as someone who at the very least failed to act as needed. Regardless of how foreign policy turns out, Bush would take his place next to Hoover in the rogues' gallery of history.

But if we look back and see only a worse-than-normal recession, then the Bush legacy will depend on the future of Iraq, and its role in smoothing out the Middle East. In the best-case scenario, Bush will have been a good -- maybe even a great -- president.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:21 AM

I'll bite:


"Turning to the economy, the pro-Bush argument becomes more of a stretch. First, his accomplishments were few. He passed a relatively small tax cut and was unable to hold the line on government spending."

Is this a joke? How many billions has bush's government poured into Iraq and Afghanistan?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: BS: Bush Administration: Aftermaths
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:25 AM

The insignificance of Bush's economic policy, though, might work to his advantage. We are in the midst of the worst recession of our generation, yet it is hard to attribute this crisis to anything that Bush actively did. If his large deficits produced skyrocketing interest rates that crushed the economy, then the argument that Bush caused the mess we're in might hold water. If he was the one who deregulated the financial sector, then we could justifiably blame him for our predicament.

Before Bush

Instead, the forces that allowed the financial sector to blow up -- deregulation, for example -- were in place when he took office. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who failed to stem the crisis, was inherited from the previous president. Bush even tried to avert the crisis early and often in his presidency, as he sought strict limits on the actions of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the mortgage-finance companies that were at ground zero of the crisis.

Bush was unable to stop the housing crisis and its fallout, but he tried. In that failure, he is hardly alone. The crisis has touched just about everyone, wiping out wealth in countries run by both liberals and conservatives.

All told, it seems unlikely that history will blame Bush for the financial crisis. He may even receive credit for helping to minimize its impact


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate


 


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.


You must be a member to post in non-music threads. Join here.



Mudcat time: 25 September 4:22 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.