funding a new album

Subject: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 02:33 PM

I was just reading in the MCPS magazine how the Incredible String Band funded their last album by inviting 120 people to contribute £60 each for the privilege of watching them record a new album at Real World.
I don't think I could ask for contributions of £60, but I'm floating the idea via MySpace, Facebook and also my private email list that if 500 people could each contribute £10 I could afford to do a new CD - they'd each get a copy of the CD in due course, so really I'm just asking them to pay in advance for their album. Has anyone on this list tried doing this before, and did it work out?

Anne
www.annelister.com

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 03:51 PM

Anne,

    I've seen some folks in the states use that approach. It works well if you keep on a schedule and keep the subscribers informed on your progress. If there are any delays some people can get a little upset.

--Phil

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Howard Kaplan
Date: 24 Mar 08 - 11:08 PM

You might want to take a look at an article by Bob Bossin, How To Raise $25,000 For Your CD.

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 12:46 AM

Hi, Anne-
Take a look at what Debra Cowan is doing to fund her next CD. People who give advance funding get advance MP3's, as she completes them. It's a treat to get these songs one at a time, well ahead of publication.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:44 AM

Thank you for these links - a lot of food for thought here! But it looks possible, so I'm beginning to feel excited.

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:03 AM

Hey Annie...!!
Count me in....
When's the gig?
Do you need a Concertina/Bouzouki player?
Hugs
Ralphie

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 08:03 AM

Wow, Ralphie, that'd be great - I'm just getting my head around what I can do on the Debra Cowan/Bob Bossin model, but I'll certainly keep you informed(and the rest of Mudcat, while we're about it)!

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:01 AM

OK Anne.
Would love to work with you.
Hugs Ralphie

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 09:22 AM

Publishing or producing artistic works by public subscription has a long and honourable history, and without this method of funding we would not have many of the great collections of music, including some invaluable sources for Welsh harp.

This is my long-winded way of saying I would be delighted to pre-order the new album, so let us know if & when it happens.

Always look forward to a new Anne record -

Bonnie xxx

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:11 AM

I shall obviously have to start putting names into a list!

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:19 AM

I wonder if you should PM the elves and ask them to re-title this thread so that it's more info-specific? A lot of folks may skip over it if they just see that general subject heading, whereas if it says "Anne's/Tabster's new CD" or something similar it's bound to attract the fans' attention.

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 11:37 AM

Initially I was just looking for information - what I'll do is get my thoughts in order about levels of sponsorship (taking a leaf out of the books of both Debra Cowan and Bob Bossin) and then put up a proper thread on the new album. But thanks for the thought, Bonnie!

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Surreysinger
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 02:51 PM

Anne- Martyn Wyndham-Read's Song Links CD's were both funded with donations from individuals, clubs and concerns. As far as I recall, people stumped up a certain amount per track, and are credited on each of the CD's.... for instance, a Copper Family track on the American one was funded by Electric Voices through Lawrence Heath (if I've remembered which track he sponsored correctly). You might like to contact Martyn to see how he went about it.
Regards
Irene

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 03:31 PM

Fans of the somewhat legendary Canadian band, Stringband, partialy funded their album, Thanks to The Following, in return, individual names were printed on the cover of the album...in 2001, the fans also partially funded a 30th aniversary Stringband CD.
So anything is possible.

Charlotte (the view from ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,perplexed
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:18 PM

Why does anyone in this day and age need £5,000 to make an album?

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 25 Mar 08 - 05:43 PM

Dear Perplexed Guest - studio time, including mixing. Paying musicians who add to the quality. Manufacturing the CD. Paying for the artwork. £5,000 isn't a lot of money in terms of making an album. You might note that the two role models suggested on this thread are talking in terms of $25,000.

What were YOU thinking? Yes, of course I could sit in my home and record myself onto the computer, and then make MP3 downloads available. Or I could do it more professionally, which is what I intend to do, and have some real, actual CDs for sale at gigs (which is what my audience still prefer).

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 11:11 AM

Oh Anne, You're so old fashioned!!!!
Professional productions? It's so yesterday.
Paying musicians? Blimey Guv!
My offer still stands. It's been a long time since we met.
Regards. your old mate Ralphie.
(Maybe we can persuade Bonnie to come out of retirement and play some Harp...well, it would make a nice trip to Ireland wouldn't it?)
Building a band on the net........neat idea!!

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 01:25 PM

*bumbling in Fenella Fielding voice* "I'm just an old fashioned girl ..." What was that about the old fashioned millionaire?!

Ralph,your offer is most gratefully accepted. We'll have to exchange real email addresses - I'm easy to contact via my website or MySpace. I have no idea yet when and where I'll be proceeding with all of this but it's all looking more possible.

The last album, btw, featured contributions from Maine, Cornwall and Yorkshire despite the musicians concerned staying home.

I wonder who else we could get involved?

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 01:58 PM

The Mudcat Band
The Mudcat Country Band
The Mudcat Dance Band...

on second thoughts I'll stay with the group of musicians I'm with right now..and personally I have nothing against a professional production, nor using paid musicians.

and 'It's so yesterday.'? is soooo last week.

Charlotte (today's view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 06:23 PM

OK Anne.
Will be in touch.
Ralphie

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Nick
Date: 26 Mar 08 - 08:53 PM

If you want a bass player...

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 05:23 AM

This is great - you know, Nick, it's very possible! Where are you - do I know you already?

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 12:03 PM

Hey Anne.
Seems like you're forming a band!
Weird But Nice!

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 01:03 PM

I remember the two of you singing as a duo for a short while back in the old Rising Sun in Catford days. Sounded good, too. So good that I nicked your version of Lowlands of Holland some time later!

Deja vu setting in... better than senility, I suppose...

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 05:30 PM

Just an observation.

It is definitely possible to produce a commercial quality CD without shucking out vast quantities of money to a professional recording studio. In fact, considering the surprisingly inexpensive technology now available, one could make a case that taking a wheelbarrow full of money to a recording studio in order to pay for something that you can do yourself for a fraction of the cost verges on the not-too-bright. Especially considering that you still have the equipment yourself, and can keep right on going and record a whole library of CDs if you want.

Get thee a copy of Roger McGuinn's Guide to Home Recording on a Computer.

This is one very enlightening DVD, packed with good information, complete with demonstrations. McGuinn has produced his most recent commercial quality CDs using a couple of good microphones and an analog-to-digital converter plugged into a laptop computer, upon which his has a copy of Cool-Edit, with which he can clean up and edit what he has recorded. With this kind of desktop equipment you can record at bit depth and sample rates that actually exceed the capability of the commercial CD medium (limited to 16 bit, 44.1 mHz), then convert the WAV files to CDA (commercial CD format) all ready to burn a master disk, and to MP3 if you also want to put them on a web site. Free format conversion programs are available for download on the internet, as is Audacity (as an alternate to the fairly pricey Cool-Edit, which is now Adobe Audition).

I know several people who are doing exactly this, with excellent results. After watching McGuinn's DVD, taking a bit of advice from people, and doing some research of my own, I have recently bought a couple good mics (Marshall MXL "Pro Pack Plus") and a Lexicon Omega "Desktop Studio," which connects to my computer, along with a very good set of Audio-Technica monitor earphones, all for not much more that $600, then bought a Zoom H2 to do some practice recording with, and to take to songfests and such. I bought most of this stuff through Amazon, and got it for well under the manufacturer's suggested retail price. Now, I'm busily lining up and practicing the program of songs I want to do for the first CD of what I hope will be a whole series.

You may want to make use of a professional outfit to package the CD when it's done (make copies with jewel cases, inserts, shrink-wrap, etc.). That could run a few bucks, but there are lots of outfits around that do this.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Nick
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 05:48 PM

I live near York (I see you are at the Black Swan on the 10th). I don't think we've ever met. I play in a recently formed Irish band, a rock band with my son and co-run a little folk gathering on a Wednesday about 10m north of York.

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 06:49 PM

"...considering the surprisingly inexpensive technology now available, one could make a case that taking a wheelbarrow full of money to a recording studio in order to pay for something that you can do yourself for a fraction of the cost verges on the not-too-bright."

So hardware is all you need to create art? By that reasoning, all I'd have to do to be a world-class fiddler would be to buy an expensive instrument. I don't play fiddle now, but what the heck - it's just a matter of getting good equipment. Talent & practice have nothing to do with it. Right?

Making a GOOD recording requires more than just sticking a microphone in front of your instrument and pushing a button. A range of skills and talents are involved, and many of those are very different from what is required to perform. It's not just a matter of plunking down the money to buy the toys, and magically you'll get a high-quality CD. A recording engineer is a specialist artist. And just like performers you see at sessions, some engineers are good, a few are great, many yield results that are at best mediocre, and some "talk the talk" but can only produce cr*p.

Also, most homes are not the best spaces to get a good acoustic recording. The occasional toilet flush, distractions from family, or maybe just a room that is either too "dead" or has odd reverb... all add to frustration or distract from recording quality. It quickly becomes worthwhile to find a space that has been set up specifically for recording.

So let's say you have all the gear, and the space, and the skills to use it. Do you have enough hands and enough ears and enough concentration to be able to perform music at peak ability while also managing the recording process?

I've made a couple of home recordings on cassette (it was a few years ago) using a multi-track system. I put in a modicum of study into recording techniques, and quite a few hours of practice with the gear, so I'm talking from a little personal experience here. Although, of the categories I mentioned above, I know I'm pretty much at the "talk the talk but produce cr*p" level.

Yes, it is possible to create a not-too-horrid home recording with a modest investment of money, time, and education. But it takes specialized gear and a LOT of expertise to get the best possible results, especially from acoustic instruments & vocals. For some people, the results are worth paying for.

BTW, I do plan on getting a new multi-track recording system & a moderately decent mic or two in the near future - but that will only be for practice/rehearsal and for developing multi-instrument arrangements so if I decide that I want to go into the studio someday I'll be better prepared. I have more respect for my potential audience than to think I can achieve excellence in the recording art without a lot more work.

Val

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 06:58 PM

Maybe see you at the Black Swan, then, Nick?

Don, yes, I know it's completely possible to record an album using home equipment. There are several reasons why I prefer to use a studio, however, chief among which are the advantages in having an external "pair of ears" in the form of an engineer who isn't me or my husband, and having someone who may well know short cuts to do something we can't or who might have the imagination to do something I wouldn't have thought of. It's not a question of my intelligence or lack of it. I've been recording albums now for over 20 years, (this will be my eighth solo CD) and I personally would far rather concentrate on my own performance than on whether or not I know how to use the technology or can use it to best effect. We all make choices - many performers enjoy the freedom and cheapness of recording themselves. I'd rather stick to what I'm best at. There's the additional problem with recording at home that we are generally busy with lots of other stuff and it's far easier to block the time in the diary to go out than attempt to do stuff staying in. We've recorded a number of voice-over projects at home and I'm well aware of the advantages and disadvantages.

I should point out, though, that the percentage of my budget that will go on studio time isn't the whole story. As I've said earlier, I do intend to pay my friends for playing on my album, which seems only right to me, there may be travel expenses to sort out and there will be costs involved in artwork, manufacturing and packaging. Packaging is an interesting one - my last album didn't involve a jewel case but was an eco friendly digipack (not sure that's the right word for it) which is far cheaper to send around because it's far lighter. It cost me more initially, but it's been worth it.

At the moment, whether the album costs me £5,000 to record or £500, however, is immaterial as I don't have any spare cash. At all. So if I'm going to set about raising some money I may as well think creatively about raising enough to do it the way I'd prefer to do it. If I set my sights on £5,000 and only achieve half of that I'm sure I can still get a good album out of it, but I may just get the amount I want and then have enough in the budget to do some proper marketing for a change. Which might just help to raise my profile and get me more gigs and sell more CDs.

As I said, we all make choices. I didn't start this thread to ask about how cheaply I could make an album - I knew that already. I was simply curious to know whether anyone had tried the "advance payment" method.

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Mar 08 - 11:44 PM

Well, excuse me for protruding. I was under the impression from the first post that money was an issue.

I haven't time to post anything more right now, but I'll be back later. Perhaps my error was that I do know quite a bit about recording and perhaps forgot for a moment that others don't.

All of you objections, Val, I am fully aware of and have essentially solved them for myself in a variety of ways.

Back later.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:54 AM

Don, no need for the "excuse me for protruding" line. As I said, we all make choices. I started the thread to ask if anyone had tried this route before and, as in another forum, have been a little surprised to be on the receiving end of all kinds of information I already know, unconnected to the original question. Also a little surprised (and, yes, irritated) to hear people equate NOT using home-based equipment with being "less than bright".

In my way of seeing things (you have yours, I have mine) I already write all the songs for my albums, choose which ones to record and the running order, sing them, play guitar on them, choose and liaise with the other musicians involved, make all the decisions on the mix, design or make the important decisions on artwork, fonts, packaging, manufacturing, sorting out any paperwork, delivery, sales, distribution, marketing, launch parties and so on. I don't need or want to be in charge of the technology for recording as well.

It may cost me more, but I think it's money well spent. I like being able to concentrate fully on my own performance and being able to listen with full focus on the playback and editing (when necessary). I've made recordings at home but I prefer to make my albums in a studio.

Which doesn't make anyone wrong or "less than bright" if they make other choices. Although I have heard many an album recorded on home equipment and in studios with only the musicians as engineers and producers which have had some glaring faults. I'd rather, as I said before, have someone else dealing with the buttons and knobs (not me, not my husband) and someone else (not me, not my husband) listening at all stages for how I could improve my performance or do something different.

If I can't raise enough money to do a studio recording, I'll wait until I can. It's really as simple as that.

But thank you for your contributions.

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 11:27 AM

"All of you objections, Val, I am fully aware of and have essentially solved them for myself in a variety of ways."

Good for you. There are usually multiple ways to approach any challenge - some work well for one person, other methods might be better for someone else.

It just seems insulting when you call someone who chooses a different but equally valid solution "not too bright".

Val

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 01:29 PM

'It just seems insulting when you call someone who chooses a different but equally valid solution "not too bright".'

it is and incredibly patronizing to boot.


'All of you(r) objections, Val, I am fully aware of(,) and have essentially solved them for myself in a variety of ways.'

As have other people, in their own ways, so.......

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Tom Bliss
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:21 PM

Hello Anne

For myself it would scare me rigid to have pre-sold an album. I find finishing the darn things causes quite enough stress as it is, and I'd be worried that knowing there were people out there baying for product might cause me to make some bad decisions. But best of luck if you do go down that route. It does seem eminently sensible if you can make it work - and I'm sure you would manage it admirably.

Just one thought re keeping costs down, and using home recording - which I know was not what you were asking, so apologies for slight thread dilution.

I'm a producer myself and know a fair bit about recording (I wrote music for tv for years and produce other bands), plus I've always had some decent kit - but I'd NEVER consider making a record myself without someone else to at least co-produce, and someone else to co-engineer. Both those roles need a different head to performing, and the number of people who can deliver a really good professional standard of recording entirely on their own is tiny. You need to loose yourself in the music, and not be watching levels and tweaking knobs etc.

And if you intend to use session musicians, there's all the more reason to use a comfortable studio with a wide range of mics, the correct acoustic areas for each instrument, and all the other bells, whistles, coffee machines and parking spaces.

That said, what I have taken to doing, to more than halve my costs, is to swap back and forth between home and studio to get the best of both worlds.

Now that I have protools on a mac laptop, and, crucially, an SE Reflexion filter (which is a whole studio the size of half a pressure cooker) I can now record guide tracks and minor overdubs at home, while using the skills and kit of a proper studio for the main takes and sessions.

I can also do basic time-consuming editing at home, but benefit from the expensive plug-ins, studio speakers, sweetening software and, most importantly, the fresh expert ears of my co-producer/s.

The last two albums have been done like this. Mixed Moss went back and forth between my house and Ali Russell's studio (then at the Music Room) 10 times. I think I did four full days with him but many many more at home.

I doubt this is an option for you, Anne, but it could work for others who, like me, enjoy fiddling and twiddling with kit, but are aware that in can get in the way of capturing that killer take.

Tom

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 05:51 PM

Thanks, Tom. On the finances front, I think I'd far rather owe people an album than owe the bank (or other people) lots of money, so that's my way of rationalising the fear factor!

As to the recording, what I've done on the last couple of albums is use a studio to lay down my vocals and guitar (and a couple of my own overdubs) and then sent out copies of what I've done to the various musicians. Who can often (but not always) record their contributions in the comfort of their own home studios and then send me back the results. It keeps main studio time to a minimum and means we don't have to worry about everyone's travelling time, accommodation issues and expenses. We then mix it all together in the main studio once that's all happened. Mixing sessions are therefore a wonderful voyage of discovery. I spend a lot of time listening (at home, on headphones)to the combined talents of all my chums and making decisions. It's worked for me so far - as to what I'll do this time around, much depends on how the plan works out!

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 06:19 PM

I think I'm too much of a control freak for that! I'd keep sending the files back saying can you pay an F# in bar 57? LOL.

But I can see the attractions. It makes it feasible to use a lot more musicians and opens up some interesting possibilities for serendipity.

Actually I did want to use that method to record a chanty choir from Cornwall for The Kelping, but ran out of time. And I considered it again for the brass band on the last one, but in the end it was safest to take the laptop to London.

Tx

See you next week

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: mattkeen
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 06:57 PM

Best of luck with this Anne - its great to hear people coming up with new ways of doing things -

Don - just for the record, the equipment you mentioned is not professional in standard, (good professional microphones tend to cost £1000 plus each etc etc...) and the other thing a studio will give you is good acoustics and a known mixing environment so that you can trust what you are hearing.

Thats coming from a dedicated home recordist, but also a former studio owner.

I think a combination approach is the way to go these days, I def want somebody else to master recordings for me at least.

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Mar 08 - 10:41 PM

GUEST,Val, I was making a valid suggestion for an alternate way of producing a CD, one that many musicians are using successfully in these modern times. And you haul off and attack what I posted in a most rude and patronizing manner, apparently making the automatic assumption that I'm some kind of fool.

My remark about "not too bright" might have been a bit over the top and I apologize for that. After all, all things being equal, there are those who may not want to take the time to learn to use the equipment or may want the experience of recording in a professional studio with an engineer behind the glass manipulating a couple of acres of sliders for a few hundred dollar$ per hour. It is indeed interesting.

I much prefer my way. Your mileage may vary.

And my apologies especially to Tabster. I was not aware of your prior recording experience, and that you have probably already considered the possible alternatives.

But as to my choice of methods. First of all, my qualifications. I've been involved with music for some 50 years now, and that involves considerable formal training in music schools and conservatories. So obviously I know that Art is not just a matter of having the right equipment. But I also know that the right equipment helps.

I have been a professional performer (television, concerts, clubs, coffeehouses, and folk festivals) for most of my life. I've spent time in recording studios, both recording my own stuff and as a studio musician for other performers. I know the drill. And I've also picked up on a few of the negative aspects of recording in a studio. Although I haven't actually worked as a recording engineer, I worked in radio broadcasting for a number of years. Part of my broadcasting job included writing, voicing, and producing commercials. I have used all types of recording equipment, from the old wire recorders, to open-reel tape recorders (including studio Ampexes), to cassette recorders of all qualities, and lately, digital recorders. I have used all kinds of microphones, I know the characteristics of the different kinds, and I know a great deal about such things as mic placement, because I've been doing it for years.

The equipment I have recently purchased was thoroughly researched before I rejected a number of options, decided on what to buy, and pulled out the credit card. The MXL "Pro Pac Plus" consists of two condenser microphones, one large diaphragm, especially good for voice (frequency response 20 Hz to 20 kHz), and a smaller diaphragm tubular mic tailored for recording "quick attack" instruments such as pianos, drums—and acoustic guitars (30 Hz to 20 kHz). The pack comes with shock mounts for both mics, wind screens if necessary, and two 15' cables with XLR connectors. I still have to purchase a couple of mic stands and a pop filter. There are indeed far more expensive mics on the market, but relatively inexpensive though these may be, I've heard (with fairly sophisticated and experienced ears) what others have done with this set and I know they are up to the job. Experience has demonstrated that the magnitude of the price tag is not always a reliable indication of the quality of the microphone. Ears, on the other hand. . . .

The Lexicon Omega "Desktop Recording Studio" is not a particularly impressive-looking unit—until you start reading the specifications and features. It is specifically for use with an adequate home computer and it comes with its own software package. I won't bore you with the details. If you're curious, google "Lexicon Omega" and read.

I have two computers, a laptop and a desktop, either of which will work fine with the Omega. And the Audio-Technical ATH-M50 monitor headphones are not the little ear-buds you get with your iPod. "Exceptionally accurate response combined with long-wearing comfort; 45mm large-aperture drivers with neodymium magnet system for ultra-efficient signal transfer; frequency response: 15hz-28khz." Plus other dandy features. I'm quite used to wearing "cans" and can tell quality when I hear it. Well worth the price.

There is much more elaborate equipment on the market, but since my purpose is to record just my voice and my acoustic (classical) guitar, once I have everything plugged in and turned on, mics properly placed, and levels set, all I need do is to put my mouse pointer on "Record," click it, and start playing and singing. I think my number of hands is adequate for the job. After all, I've done it many times before with equipment far more complicated to run.

I've had other people record me with their digital equipment, and my ears—quite familiar with what to listen for—have been pleasantly impressed by the results. And a couple of people have offered to assist my efforts by recording me on their equipment, but I prefer to do it myself for a number of reasons. First, is that, as I say, I have worked with recording engineers who are "specialist artists" with, presumably very discriminating ears, and I've found many of them to be easily satisfied with far less than what would satisfy me. I prefer to strive to work up to my own standards, thank you.

And with the home recording equipment (most definitely not—as it was so contemptuously put—"toys," considering the actual capability of this equipment, and the number of well-known and respected people who are turning out commercial CDs with it), one has the luxury of doing this on one's own time and being able to take the time to get it right, without the kind of pressure that comes with knowing that retakes eat up expensive studio time. Roger McGuinn noted this on his DVD, and I have felt this kind of pressure myself. It is not conducive to the best performances on the eventual recording.

As to the surroundings and the problem of ambient noise ("The occasional toilet flush, distractions from family. . . ."), I live in a large apartment (living room, bedroom, formal dining room, large kitchen, two baths, and two "bonus rooms," one of which is my office, where my desktop computer resides). It is a quiet building in a quiet neighborhood. I hear a car horn about once every month or so. The fellow in the apartment directly above ours is out of town on business for weeks at a time, and my wife works several days a week as do most of the other tenants, so I am often the only one in the building. Recently (with my recording project in mind) I have been listening carefully for all kinds of background noise. I have also turned on the Zoom H2, stayed quiet myself, and let it record whatever it hears. As I say, this is a very quiet building. If, for example, I'm recording a song and the phone should ring, I can just re-record. A little irritation perhaps, but nothing out of pocket. Other tests show no odd reverbs or other problems with the room, and if I encounter any, they're easy enough to fix—inexpensively.

I can do it my way, on my schedule, and make certain that it's up to my standards. I will burn test CDs, listen to them carefully on my stereo equipment (two tweeters, four midrange speakers, and a sub-woofer), and, of course, solicit the opinions of others whom I know to be knowledgable, critical, and frank, not just those who'll tell me "Gee, that's great!" But—I will be the final judge.

Using one's own judgment is an essential ingredient in what makes Art.

But GUEST,Val, the vociferous nature of your comments about my suggested alternative to using a professional recording studio makes me think of the kind of response I might expect to hear from a recording engineer who has noted the sudden recent increase in high quality "guerilla" home recording and feels his career as a recording engineer beginning to circle the drain.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Anne Lister
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 04:21 AM

I think Tom Bliss summed up my point of view about recording engineers versus diy.
In my case, additionally, I live in a house where sound travels (it's mostly a wood construction, unusually for the UK). My father in law lives with us, leads a fairly home-based life, loves to have the television on most of the time (and he's a little deaf, so the sound levels are high) and we also have an extremely vocal, rather deaf cat. Who "talks" to me quite a bit. We have successfully recorded some voice overs at home, but the prospect of a full album?

But I return to the need for an external pair of ears. And someone with a full grasp of the technology, and experience. And an ability to see answers to problems I might not have even noticed. Don, you may have all the technical expertise necessary, you may have an all-encompassing view of all aspects and maybe you can produce exactly the result you want. Good for you. I recognise my own limitations (and I'm happy to live with them). This will be my ninth album so yes, I have looked at all the possibilities and made my own choices about what to do. Which is why my initial question wasn't about how to make a CD cheaply. A good recording engineer is worth paying for, in my experience. I also use other musicians, and again very often my engineer has been able to deal with them and their contributions in a way that I couldn't. It's hard to tell a friend when they're out of tune, to take one small example - which is also why if you do all of the recordings yourself you might not get the full and frank feedback you need. A frequent problm in self-produced, self-recorded albums is musicians who are out of tune and too high in the mix. But of course Don isn't going to make that mistake.

I did, incidentally, google Don's name to find out what CDs he'd already made, or what recordings he'd been associated with and nothing came up within the first five pages of results. This isn't a dig, an insult or patronising, just my own curiosity. My own website is here

Anyway, back to the subject of the thread itself. In a day or so I'll post up the link to the page on my website where anyone who wants to help can do so, because events in the past few days have shown me that quite a few people would like to help. Which is great news.

Anne

Subject: RE: funding a new album
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Mar 08 - 02:42 PM

No, Anne, you won't find anything under my name. Back in the 1950s and 60s when I was most active, the two local (Seattle) record companies were into "do-wop" and soft rock, and were not at all interested in (downright hostile toward) folk music and folk singers. I have made audition tapes in professional recording studios and these got me a number of jobs, and one of them got a nibble from Vanguard Records, but the deal didn't go through.

My studio musician work consisted of providing guitar backing for other singers, particular a fellow named Bob Weymouth who was well-known locally and performed some on national television. He accompanied himself on the guitar, but he was more of a popular singer. His guitar work was very simple, and he hired me to do "the fancy stuff." I recall spending four hours in a studio one afternoon with Bob and two other musicians recording two songs. And Bob was paying all of us and for studio time. Recording those two songs cost him pretty close to a thousand dollars. I have no idea how much the total project cost him, but I guess it was a good investment, because he got a lot of jobs as a result of having a record out. As Dave Van Ronk said, "In vinyl, veritas." Somehow, having a record or CD out gives one a certain "legitimacy."

I was unwilling to move to New York or Los Angeles where most of the major record companies were located, and they seemed to think that there was nothing going on out here in the "Wild West," despite the fact that there were folk singers in this area who were as good as any in the country. And especially at the time, doing one's own recording was much too expensive.

During my work in radio, I became very familiar with microphones, recording equipment, recording techniques, and such, and became quite adept at using the equipment.

I had pretty much retired from performing, except for the occasional concert or appearances at folk festivals, but was recently pressed into service for a couple of special projects. My wife and I were asked to join an ad hoc group called "Miscellany," consisting of Nancy Quensé (voice and guitar), Isla Ross (fiddle), my wife, Barbara (voice and small, portable reed organ), and me (voice and guitar), to provide songs and incidental music for readings by a well-known local poet. After several presentations, the poet (also a writing professor at the University of Washington) was asked to put the presentations on CD and possibly do a DVD, with an idea of telecasting it. So once again, back to the recording studio.

But nothing under my own name.

I have always regretted the fact that I have no records out (except for one cut on an LP made at a concert at the United Nations Pavilion during the Seattle World's Fair in 1962) and decided recently—in the light of the recent move toward "guerilla recording"—and especially since I know a couple of other people who are producing their own professional quality CDs on the same kind of relatively inexpensive computer-based equipment that I just purchased.

I have a large repertoire of folk songs and ballads that I have been singing for years and I have had many people ask me if I had any records or CDs they could buy. So I figure that it's about time. As to the matter of the essential "other pair of ears," I'm fortunate that I know a number of knowledgeable, supportive, and honestly frank other musicians. A good "support group."

Also, I will soon have my own web site. All these things are starting to come together.

I didn't mean to toss a cigar butt into the punchbowl and I certainly didn't expect to receive so negative a response (not so much from you, but from a couple of others) when I made my suggestion. I was trying to be helpful.

Good luck with the project.

Don Firth