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An ASBO for Morris Dancing?

Snuffy 30 Apr 08 - 07:34 PM
The Borchester Echo 30 Apr 08 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,allan 30 Apr 08 - 10:25 AM
The Borchester Echo 30 Apr 08 - 10:18 AM
Snuffy 30 Apr 08 - 09:41 AM
Roger the Skiffler 14 Apr 08 - 09:39 AM
steve_harris 12 Apr 08 - 09:52 AM
Andy Jackson 12 Apr 08 - 05:42 AM
Roger the Skiffler 12 Apr 08 - 05:28 AM
steve_harris 11 Apr 08 - 05:49 PM
TheSnail 11 Apr 08 - 07:51 AM
manitas_at_work 11 Apr 08 - 07:33 AM
gnomad 11 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM
The Sandman 10 Apr 08 - 05:43 PM
Mo the caller 10 Apr 08 - 06:00 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 09 Apr 08 - 12:06 PM
Kosmo 09 Apr 08 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,Neovo 09 Apr 08 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,Joe 09 Apr 08 - 09:11 AM
GUEST,BobL 09 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 09 Apr 08 - 08:27 AM
TheSnail 09 Apr 08 - 04:57 AM
Snuffy 09 Apr 08 - 04:17 AM
TheSnail 08 Apr 08 - 07:59 PM
Howard Jones 08 Apr 08 - 05:16 PM
Dave Earl 08 Apr 08 - 03:20 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 08 Apr 08 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,GEFF and Proud of it 08 Apr 08 - 03:13 PM
GUEST,Anonymous Guest 08 Apr 08 - 03:05 PM
Snuffy 08 Apr 08 - 03:01 PM
The Borchester Echo 08 Apr 08 - 02:59 PM
Dave Earl 08 Apr 08 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,Anonymous Guest 08 Apr 08 - 02:51 PM
GUEST,Anonymous Guest 08 Apr 08 - 02:49 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 08 Apr 08 - 02:47 PM
GUEST,Anonymous Guest 08 Apr 08 - 02:45 PM
GUEST,Anonymous Guest 08 Apr 08 - 02:41 PM
The Borchester Echo 08 Apr 08 - 02:40 PM
GUEST,Anonymous Guest 08 Apr 08 - 02:40 PM
The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive) 08 Apr 08 - 02:29 PM
GUEST,Anonymous Guest 08 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM
The Borchester Echo 08 Apr 08 - 02:08 PM
TheSnail 08 Apr 08 - 01:41 PM
The Borchester Echo 08 Apr 08 - 01:29 PM
GUEST 08 Apr 08 - 01:27 PM
The Borchester Echo 08 Apr 08 - 01:19 PM
The Borchester Echo 08 Apr 08 - 01:12 PM
Bonnie Shaljean 08 Apr 08 - 01:06 PM
Doug Chadwick 08 Apr 08 - 12:46 PM
Azizi 08 Apr 08 - 12:24 PM
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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 07:34 PM

My source was quite clear that he has never heard any of his fellow Offspring members (be they male or female, Ring or Fed) ever refer to "wavers".

I fail to see how this can be squared with your assertion that wavers is the preferred term in Morris Offspring. You can't both be right. And I know whom I believe, having known him since he was in junior school.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:35 AM

Well, quite. The thread is actually about a mythical, spoof side (provenance and composition unknown) who collected ASBOs for unlicensed dancing, whereupon several comprehension-challenged participants took this literally, having entirely missed the literary quiz significance, I think we can safely conclude that the plot is well and truly lost.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,allan
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:25 AM

Well we're a Ring side and whenever we refer to hankies one (and only one) of our men says they should be called wavers. it's not something worth arguing about in my mind.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:18 AM

Had you bothered to read the thread you'd have seen that the information about wavers came as a result of a specific inquiry to he Morris Federation. As the Offsprings are culled from a number of different Cotwolds side, doubtless different members are used to different terms. The woman member who told me that the term "wavers" was preferred came from a Fed side (natch). Possibly the Ring has Man Reasons for liking "handkerchiefs" and maybe one will come along and explain (if interesting). What Morris Offspring has debated hotly is whether to use bells and last time I say them, they did.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:41 AM

Last Saturday I was talking to a member of Morris Offspring who had returned for the day to dance with our (Ring) side, whence he sprang.

I asked him about "wavers" and he laughed out loud at the very idea of calling them anything but handkerchiefs. He told me Morris Offspring had had long and sometimes heated discussions about whether or not to dance with handkerchiefs, but they had never discussed calling them something else.

Which all leaves me very puzzled as to how and where Diane got her information about "wavers"


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 09:39 AM

Ah, Miskin Man, my minders normally only allow me to sing abroad, does IOW count, I wonder? However, I note that you and Eye Lander have taken the precaution of being off-island for my visit!

RtS
(face made for radio; voice made for mime)


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: steve_harris
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 09:52 AM

Cecil Sharp's Morris Book calls them "handkerchiefs".

Perhaps he was trying not to be elitist? :-)


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:42 AM

Well if you're coming over to the Island Roger, you'd better bring your own ASBO, we have run out over here.
I think Eyelander has cornered the market!!


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 12 Apr 08 - 05:28 AM

Well, my singing gets me a restraining order....

RtS


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: steve_harris
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 05:49 PM

A Morris Offspring person told me to call them wavers. She also told me not to attach beards to any of the dancers in the animation I was making

I think I know the one you mean. Bless.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: TheSnail
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 07:51 AM

nomad

you could fit the entire world population onto the Isle of Wight

The argument I heard against it was, that with the terrible ferry service, you'd never get them all across.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 07:33 AM

That's because they're not a morris team, they're a sword and step dance team.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: gnomad
Date: 11 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM

Blackadder Standard Kit doesn't seem to include a baldrick.

An addition to the "what do we call handkerchiefs?" section, linked handkerchief dances were often known in sides I danced with as "knotted snotties". I danced with a number of sides over 26 years, and still know plenty of dancers, but this thread is the first time I have encountered the term "wavers" in this context.

I heard and enjoyed the broadcast that gave rise to the thread, amazing that one broadcaster's humorous invention should inspire such vitriolic outpourings.

Reminds me that I once heard someone say that, provided they all stood up, you could fit the entire world population onto the Isle of Wight (Hm, connection there?) In minutes there was a whole set of arguments in progress: why should they all stand (couldn't they sit on each others knees), would the island sink, why the IoW, what would be left if they each took away a grain of sand for a souvenir, why would anyone want to go there, who says we're all going on holiday together, I can't take any more leave this year, does your mother have to come, she's going to the West Indies (Jamaica? No...)

Where is this going? Dunno, but not the IoW. Maybe we could sometimes do to take a look at ourselves and lighten up a touch.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 05:43 PM

what is the world coming to,handkerchief dances being called wavers.
Newspeak has hit the world of Morris. what is next?
Baldricks will become Blackadders.I suppose.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 10 Apr 08 - 06:00 AM

Back to the top of the thread. Were the IOW morris men dancing Vandals ?


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 12:06 PM

Neovo, I'm not suggesting that "wavers" is a common, or correct, term in NW Morris either. Just that when I googled "morris wavers" there seemed to be far more references to NW than Cotswold. The most common reference however seemed to be to Carnival Morris, which is of course quite different.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Kosmo
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 10:48 AM

At the somewhat tender age of 19, I consider myself perfectly normal, and I love morris dancing. I find it wonderful at the solstice and again to dance the summer in, I play music quite happily along with them. Plus after hanging about at rock fests and concerts, the folk morris clothing is A LOT less stupid, for one morris dancers can co-ordinate, and look cool.

At leasty they don't wear those horrendous velour tracksuits that apparantly "normal" people wear.

I personally think that it's shortsighted television programming by stiffs in suits (formerly known as "the MAN") that just don't want people to have fun anymore - it's the same story with the stuppid music liscnece thing. Live music - I reckon - is a human right!!!!

Anyway, what happened to teaching kids to do traditional dancing in schools - it's a better idea than sending them to cadets for a national service style training! Being at uni in Glasgow i can say that all the scotish students all learned their traditional dances as children.
This'd change some stupid stereitypes. *rant over*


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Neovo
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 10:07 AM

Well in my over 25 years involvement with North West Morris as dancer, musician and friend to many in traditional teams from the actual North West I've never heard of sticks being called "wavers", nor have I heard of slings being called "wavers" either although there are one or two other names for these items of equipment.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 09:11 AM

Never heard of 'wavers' in my 10 years in a 'traditional' cotswold team, although old photos show longer hankies compared to today, maybe we just produce less snot? I blame global warming.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM

According to the History of Great Western Morris, they use the term "wavers" for their morris linen in order to distinguish it from "hankies" which are merely, well, handkerchief-sized.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 08:27 AM

OK, a bit of casual googling has found a few references to Cotswold Morris handkerchiefs being called "wavers". However the term seems to be more usually applied to the decorated sticks used by North West sides.

I would still disagree with Diane's original implication that "wavers" is the correct term, rather than handkerchiefs. I would be interested to know when the term first started to be used. If it's favoured by the Morris Federation I wonder if it's because women don't have suitable handkerchiefs :-)

Cecil Sharp's Morris Book calls them "handkerchiefs".


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: TheSnail
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 04:57 AM

The cookie monster is on the prowl. That was me.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Apr 08 - 04:17 AM

Having spent a few, but happy, minutes with a tape measure, it seems I have been guilty of overstating the size of my equipment (it's a man thing).

Twenty inches is nearer the mark than thirty for the size of a morris napkin: the sets we had made 20 years ago were almost exactly 19", but the new pairs made last year are slightly larger, at 500mm (still just under 20"). This gives a diagonal distance of about 28", which, even with my short legs, would not quite touch the ground unless I were to dance barefoot.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: TheSnail
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 07:59 PM

In general I present processional dances first (unless a dance is distinctively a leading-off dance,in which case it may follow the set dances), stick-dances second, then handkerchief dances and finally jigs.

A Handbook of Morris Dancing, Lionel Bacon (c) 1974 (but according to the Foreword "This book was first prepared in 1951")

The Women's Morris Federation was formed in 1975 and became the Morris Federation in 1983. Most of Morris Offspring were probably born later than that.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Howard Jones
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:16 PM

It seems to me that the use of the word "wavers" is an attempt to introduce a new term where one is not needed. They have invariably been known as handkerchiefs up to now, and this thread is the first time I (and others, it appears) have come across the term.

The Morris Offspring may be fit, and good, and can no doubt dance the socks off the rest of us. But they are, by definition, young and therefore, by definition, don't know what they're talking about :)

Lionel Bacon's "Handbook of Morris Dances" undoubtedly is seen as authoritative, and refers to "handkerchiefs".

Sorry Diane, I beg your pardon, Ms Easby, but if the term "wavers" is in use at all then it is definitely a minority usage. Most morris dancers call them "handkerchiefs". If the Morris Offspring or the Morris Federation choose to call them something else, that's up to them, but it's not the usual word. I fear you've been misinformed.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:20 PM

Diane what I know about you I have learnt from this forum.

I could feel your explosion building as I read the post that caused it.

I've stated my feelings about the way express yourself on here.

I'll keep saying it too.

Dave


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:15 PM

'Some people do wind up very easily'

this isthe old old excuse, as if some people need it, to be insufferably rude.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,GEFF and Proud of it
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:13 PM

Some people do wind up very easily.

Do I detect signs of a new sport?


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Anonymous Guest
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:05 PM

I am a registered member, but I can't remember my login password and having just changed both my laptop and my email address, I can no longer log in, which is a pain in the proverbial, but it does give some opportunity for some fun.

Some people do wind up very easily.
    Hi- visitors are welcome to post as guests at Mudcat, but we expect everyone to use a consistent name and to conduct themselves in a civil manner. If for some reason you're unable to reset your membership cookie, you may post as a guest, but you should use your regular user name. "Anonymous Guest" isn't an acceptable name, and neither is your conduct (but you knew that). You may contact me by e-mail for your login information. Give me your full name and your previous e-mail address, so I can be reasonably sure you are who you say you are.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-
    joe@mudcat.org


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 03:01 PM

...........and 'Mole Catchers Apprentice' is your name then?

No, and Snuffy is not my real name, but ...

a) it's the only name I use on here

b) it's registered to me, so nobody else can use it.

Which is a bit different from being "Anonymous Guest" or any other name you care to use.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:59 PM

Oh so it's THAT Dave. You know me not at all if you think I'll ever put up with that sort of mindless blokishness.

And I'll be "felling" anyone else who tries it on.

Load of pillocks.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Dave Earl
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:52 PM

Doesn't Joe's message say something about deleting all Anon Guest stuff from midnight (his time I suppose)

Diane I would have thought you could have controlled your fellings rather better.

Ok, I have said that before (in several ways) but I live in hope.

Dave


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Anonymous Guest
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:51 PM

OK. Trolling over for tonight.

Just me being a bit mischievous.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Anonymous Guest
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:49 PM

Go on then - 'ave a guess...........


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:47 PM

My real name is scattered all over Mudcat, so, please don't try and pass off the responsibility, which is yours, onto me. Personally, I agree with Diane, you are a patronising prat( I think you do it for the effect more than anything)..and you know what? I've 'seen' that patronising attitude somewhere before...now let me think...... :-D

Charlotte R


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Anonymous Guest
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:45 PM

Charming!

Now thats not very ladylike at all. I am deeply offended, and am seriously considering not posting any more.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Anonymous Guest
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:41 PM

...........and 'Mole Catchers Apprentice' is your name then?


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:40 PM

From Anonymous Guest:

Well, dear, I can address you just as I please

No you bloody well can't. I am NOT your (or anyone else's) "dear" or "darlin'" and it is highly sexist and trivialising to use such terms.

As for your second paragraph, unless you can dredge up anything on topic to add, FUCK OFF, you patronising prat.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Anonymous Guest
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:40 PM

Well, I could tell you who I am, but then I would have to shoot you.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:29 PM

At least Diane takes responsibility for what she posts and doesn't hide behind the old "Guest", "Anonymous Guest" and the miriad permutations, which, as Joe Offer recently said, is to not take responsibility for your postngs.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST,Anonymous Guest
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM

Well, dear, I can address you just as I please, the fact that you know not who I am is neither here nor there. Bollocks is Bollocks, no matter how incomprehensible it may be, and, darlin' it is all Bollocks.

I don't quite know just where you seem to have picked up this enormous chip on your shoulder, but it might be an idea for you to read what you write, or perhaps think a little before hitting the send button - yes?


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 02:08 PM

Firstly, Anonymous Guest, you are not permitted to address me so familiarly. I know not who you are. I am Ms Easby to you.

Secondly, if ever I talk bollocks (and I do not concede that on this occasion I was), I am entitled to do so and will always sign it.

You confuse "stuff you cannot comprehend" with "bollocks". A common error among those too cowardly to put their name to what comes out of their mouth.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: TheSnail
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:41 PM

Then, of course, there are those who wear their underpants on their heads.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:29 PM

Oh and Azizi wonders if the way the thread has turned out was my intention. Well, yes in a way. I just wondered how many people take things absolutely literally. Like (as I said about halfway through), when they read the label on a tin of beans that says "stand in a pan of boiling water for 10 minutes", they leap immediately up onto the cooker. Rather a lot, it seems. The BBC is wasting its time making programmes such as The Write Stuff for such as they.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:27 PM

Well Diane, that is probably the biggest load of bollocks you have ever posted, and you have posted some bollocks in your time.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:19 PM

Doug Chadwick, I did not "quibble" with your reference. I quoted two authoritative sources who confirmed the correct term. I always think it better in a discussion to use the correct terminology, don't you? It saves on later confiusion. Not.


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:12 PM

I did say in the first post what an Anti Social Behaviour Order was for anyone who was not aware.

The Anonymous Guest above asks WTF is an Insider/Outsider. S/he can answer that by looking at him/herself. A non-Mudcat member and thus a pariah, technically unable to post, (though this one apparently can).

A Mudcat member is by definition, an Insider, a respected member of a "f*lkie" (yuk) community, a tie-die beclad, tankard swigger who never bothers to tune because anything is Good Enough For F*lk.

Anyone "outside" falls into one of two categories:

The first, led at the moment apparently by such as Matthew Parris or Fi Glover(ha!) are media types who never miss the chance to take the piss (I wonder why).

The other consists of those, largely musicians, who avoid the "scene", especially incestuous "f*lkie" gatherings, and get on with playing and discovering musics without boundaries. There are some Mudcat members who fall into the second category but these are hounded and abused constantly by GEFFs if ever they peek above the parapet.

Gawd, I'm getting bored . . .


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:06 PM

Hi Azizi - Nice to see you on "this side" of the pond.

An ASBO is an Anti-Social Behaviour Order. I think Philip Stubbes would have approved ;-)


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 12:46 PM

Have you any idea how ridiculous you'll look to knockers and outsiders if you descend into a squabble about what to call your kit

Diane,
You were the first one to quibble about my reference to handkerchiefs. Seems to me that it's a case of " physician, heal thyself ".


DC


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Subject: RE: An ASBO for Morris Dancing?
From: Azizi
Date: 08 Apr 08 - 12:24 PM

I'm just popping in to say that I opened this thread to learn more about Morris Dancing and what they heck an ASBO was {is}.
Instead {besides?} I'm finding this thread to be a fun read {in a play-on-words, witty kinda way}.

I gather that might not have been the intention of the thread starter, but I guess we never know how threads will turn out once they are started.

-a note from a true blue USA outsider


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