Review: Worst club and why

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 09:17 PM

'On the whole I think most of us are fairly tolerant of others' foibles.'

So far nobody has whipped out their foibles at our club. I suppose in the sunny south, people have a more relaxed attitude to those sort of goings on.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Cats
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 03:21 PM

The worst folk club for me is the one in the town where I teach. I don't go, although it is rated as an extremely good club, because of the unthinking parents who go and who want to talk to me all night about how wonderful their son or daughter is now that I'm not teaching him or her any more! Even on the night I was guesting there, she cornered me as I was walking out as part of the end of the first 'act' and did not leave my side for the whole of the interval. I don't want to talk work when I'm out and I don't want to walk into a pub and see my students who are underage proping up the bar. So, I don't go.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Acorn4
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 04:20 AM

Having read all this, and pointed out one or two bits of minor annoyance, our social life now centres around the folk scene. We had ten years when we hardly went out due to work and being occupied with our autistic son.

Most of what we experience is great,with only a few minor annoyances at times. When you spend a week at Sidmouth, you really come down to earth with a bang when you stop at a motorway service station, and are remided how the "muggles" live, with their baseball caps, tattoes, Sky TV, etc.

Let's face it, if you are prepared to stand up in a folk club and perform in front of others, you have to have a bit of an ego, so there will be the occasional clash.On the whole I think most of us are fairly tolerant of others' foibles.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 05:08 PM

The Snail...he was reading the words from a notebook...reckon it was me! LOL

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Mr Happy
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:57 AM

Some years back, me & the fiends went to one in Mold where there was a tom-tom player & another chap with an African drum, so I guess if we'd not gone, there'd only've been the two of them

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: TheSnail
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:49 AM

Backwoodsman

no head-up-arse types

I am now conjuring up the image of someone with their head up their arse while wearing swirly, panchromatic, floral trousers (with optional fairy wings).

Georgiansilver

If you know of such a club that has only one person attending...thats probably the worst!

What's the sound of one folk singer singing?

If a folk singer sings in a folk club and there is nobody there to hear him, how can you tell if he was reading the words from a notebook?

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:33 AM

IMHO any club (if we are actually talking Folk Clubs) that has at least two people in, where there is live music, and at least one of the people attending enjoys it has got to be OK.
If you know of such a club that has only one person attending...thats probably the worst!

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:22 AM

It would be even better if they actually took the time and trouble to learn their stuff, so they don't NEED to fart around with books, folders, sheets of paper, Blackberrys, backs of fag-packets, etc.

I speak as a past-farter-around, who used 'I can't learn words' as an excuse for my indolence. Now I DO learn the songs, I find that it's far easier to do a good performance, make eye contact with members of the audience, and I enjoy performing far more.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: GUEST,MC Fat (at work)
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:19 AM

When I moved to South Yorkshire in 1979 I started going to a club somewhere in the Dearne Valley. It was a club blessed with an inordinately number of good unaccompanied singers so me being a guitarist/singer was an exception. One Club/Singers Night I followed two guitarists who I had never seen before said hello dumped the guitar and went downstairs for a pint. When I returned upstairs the two said musicians were leaving with guitars in hand. On asking one of the 'committee' on the door it transpired they had come all the way from Manchester only to be told by this person that there was no room for them to sing. Well she said 'You've got to look after your regulars' The club was full of the usual suspects.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Acorn4
Date: 23 Apr 08 - 06:08 AM

On the question of etiquette, I think one of the things which can be slightly annoying is folk who flip through their own folders of words when others are performing. It's as if to say:-"I'm not really listening to what yoiu're doing, but an just deciding what I'm going to do when my next turn comes."

I must admit to being slightly guilty of this at times when, for example I've arrived late, but it's normally just to avoid having to faff around when the turn comes which can be equally irritating. I would normally try to find said piece of paper quickly and with minimum of fuss.

I think this is especially noticeable when the organisers of a club do it - new arrivals aren'y likely to return when not showed respect.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 10:19 PM

Another vote for Bingham as a Good Place To Go. Friendly people, welcoming atmosphere, well-organised, no head-up-arse types, lovely lady on the door (Rosie??).

And they bought copies of my CD. Woo-hoo!

And I agree with the comments above about 'one man's meat...' etc. It's a question of personal taste. The club I disliked the most was packed out with people, all clearly having a great time. Was it the club that was bad, or just my taste that was out of kilter with theirs? I suspect the latter.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 07:07 PM

Aah, Reg. When Les Barker wrote "Nobody's as old as Derek Brimstone", he obviously didn't know about Reg. If we had any sense he'd be listed as a national treasure.

And as for Bingham, I've yet to experience a more welcoming club in such a potentially bloody awful venue. It's modern, utilitarian and with a bar in the room. Fortunately, it has organisers who appear to go back to the sixties and carry that etiquette with them, and when you get on your hind legs to perform there's a really appreciative audience.

In any field, there will always be the self-serving, the arrogant, the bullshitters, and in the arts in particular, those with a great deal more attitude than ability. When they club together, it only gets worse. Let them be on their way; fortunately, they do not constitute a majority.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: GUEST,Peter Stockport
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 08:05 AM

Have a look at this on My Space- He could be singing about any folk club.
down the folkclub
Click on "down the folkclub"
Best line for me is "It don't seem to matter if you're me mum down at the folkclub"

Which club is it? Work it out for yourself...Sounds like a great club to me!
Cheers
Peter

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 02:00 PM

About a year ago someone started a thread "What Was The Worst Thing You Have Seen In a Folk Club". It pretty soon disappeared as people were complaining that such a thread was "too negative". Personally I thought that it wasn't a bad idea especially for those of us who attempt to run a folk club to a high standard to see what turns people off and ensure that we are not making the same mistakes.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 01:37 PM

We close the bar, when the music is on.

We also have the following notices around the room and on the front of the hand out diaries.
FOLK CLUB ETIQUETTE - To maximise enjoyment of Faldingworth Live, there are a few considerations we'd like you to make towards the performers and fellow members of the audience:

PLEASE do not let small children, dogs or your conversation disturb the performance;

PLEASE switch off your mobile phones;

PLEASE do not enter or leave the Room during songs.


WE THANK YOU FOR YOUR CO-OPERATION.

I agree entirely, that when you pay a lot of money to put a performer on concert style and people pay decent money to see them, then we as organsiers need to limit the noise as best as possible.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Celtaddict
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 01:27 PM

As George has said, we all have clubs or nights that we find better or worse. I think this thread idea would be more useful to those of us in varied places, and probably more civil, if we could describe what makes a bad experience, and what makes a good experience, from the viewpoint of a performer or an audience member.
As an audience member (at concert-type clubs far more often than singaround type) I most object to cutting the guest short for any reason, the loud machines (espresso and frozen drink blenders), and, especially, loud talking, almost unavoidable when the bar is in the same room. It is discouraging when the 'regulars' of that performer talk; maybe they hear him often and are glad to get together, but I want to hear the performer! I also think it would be good if there were established expectations about when the audience sings along. If the performer asks us to join in a chorus, either well-known or taught then and there, great, I love singing together. But I go to hear the guest performer, and find it distracting, and detracting from the experience, if there are people who feel they must sing along with everything, including the verses or obvious solo type songs, and even when they do not even know the words and just 'aahh' along.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 01:55 AM

Well said Bill

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: GUEST,Bill the sound
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 08:06 PM

I don't know which is the worst because I haven't seen them all YET!
But anyone who is prepared to run a folk club gets my vote if you think it's bad don't complain -get in there and improve it, because if they all close you really will have something to complain about.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Graveyard
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 05:45 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 06:55 PM

Oh this is TOO easy - the last one I walked out of...

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 06:16 PM

East Stirling,Bottom of the Scotish third division.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Bert
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 05:43 PM

LOL, Bill S.

Here's one of mine in a similar vein

Espresso Machine (Tune: Spinning Wheel )

Last Wednesday night at the famous Steel City
It came to my turn to sing a short ditty
In the midst of a song of a lass and her lover
The Espresso machine goes
Shhhh, shuff, shuff, shuff, shweeee shoooooooow shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

My turn came again, thought I'd try something loud
A song of our flag that would make us all proud
When I got to the part where the flag started waving
Shew shew shew shew shew
Shhhh, shuff, shuff, shuff, shweeee shoooooooow shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Now came my last chance it was nearly nine thirty
A song that is funny, perhaps a bit dirty
I got to the part where they all roar with laughter
When that blasted machine goes
Shhhh, shuff, shuff, shuff, shweeee shoooooooow shhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 02:07 PM

Actually everyone at Bingham was very nice to me. And the lady on the door said as I left at the end of the night, oh do YOU go to other folk clubs as well.....

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 12:24 PM

Maybe we should have swapped - but I thought you were going to meet me at the club I didn't name!

Anyway, it was a bugger being pressganged, wasn't it: happened to both of us!

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Bill S from Adelaide
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 09:47 AM

I'm a singer in a bushband and I love to entertain
But theres one situation would drive a bloke insane
Its Friday night down at the club, I've just begun my song
And what's that bloomi noise I hear over the intercom

It goes number 97 to the snackbar please carton of chips hamburger with cheese
Number 97 to the snackbar pleeeeease Noumber 97 to the snackbar please

I used to sing sweet love songs, winning the ladies' hearts
Till the night my brother hit the jackpot right in the romantic part
There were flashing lights and ringing bells coming through the door
and 500 bloody two bob bits rattling around the floor

I was singing a song the other night, had the audience in my hand
They were rolling round with laughter which made me feel quite grand
I'm coming to the punchline draw my breath and then
Daphne Duffy wanted on the telephone theres that noise again

Well I don't mean to brag a lot but I think I sing quite well
But there's one place I dont excel its the local RSL (Returned Services Club)
So I chucked it and geaded off to the local pub
Im just getting into the swing of things there's a noisy overdub

Well I've gone back to the club you know and now I am a star
Though Im not singing any more, I work behind the bar
And its ILUV69 you've left your headlights on
Fred Jones is on the telephone
You're wanted in the foyer Ron

Describes what actually happens to singers down under, Can't find the source though. I remember years ago at a festival they were calling out meal numbers and when they reached 97 we all sang the chorus. Went down like a lead balloon.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 08:42 AM

Anyway, I told you that night to go to Bingham. I went to Bingham and sat there all night with the traddy gang waiting for you to turn up - listening to tales of what it bugger it was being press ganged, etc.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 08:35 AM

The thing about Reg Cooper is that he pre-dates all this bollocks about tradition and god knows what. He comes from an age when everyone from tommy Roe singing the Foksinger to Alex Campbell was folk music, or folk and country and nobody really knew the difference, or cared.

Rather like the sane and sensible portion of the population at this very moment.

The other thing about Reg is, he's been around such a very long time, I bet he's met and had stories to tell you about every musician you idolise. He's played alonside most of them and interviewed the rest for Radio Nottingham. A very interesting guy.

Occasionally weird music - but an interesting guy.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 08:19 AM

Oh come on, Dave, it was a wind up, wasn't it? Even I had to chortle once I had got over the culture shock!

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 03:39 AM

QED. One man's meat etc. Which is why I think this thread pointless at best. Especially when many clubs (in the 70s, 80s and 90s sense) are increasingly becoming isolated from the wider folk scene of fests, sessions and cafe-type venues.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 03:05 AM

Richard, as one of the above"jokers" as I recall you asked, at the last minute, for clubs in the Nottingham area. We duly obliged. Personally I live about five miles from the venue and it has always pesented a wide variety of folk music whenever I have attended.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 15 Apr 08 - 02:20 AM

>>Even the artist that has been booked can have their time reduced by this unreasonable reaction from the regulars<<

That is really bad

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:40 PM

Well, the worst musical night I had in my life was when some jokers from this forum suggested I would like a particular club on a particular night. It turned out it was an 80th birthday party do for the retured dude who used to host the local country and western radio programme. Not at all to my taste. But if I'd liked country and western I'd probably have liked it.

But the worst club I ever went to no longer exists. In Chester in the early 70s there used to be a club called "the Mucky Duck". One sat in rows on school-type chairs and awaited the revelations from on high. Floor singers were supposed to phone in in advance and to do an audition in advance. For some years I used the experience to add a verse to "Martin said to his man"

"Sought folk at the Mucky Duck
Etc
"Seemed that I was out of luck".

Same year I met a bloke passing through Chester who was great. He'd stand up in a bar, and belt out a song in a huge but non-operatic voice, refuse to use the mic in amplified venues. I wonder what became of him. His name was Danny Dove. I think he was from Liverpool.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Betsy
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 08:18 PM

Alan, you've touched on a valid point, and I ask myself when I read your note, where has all the fun and bon-hommie gone from many folk clubs ?.
Over blown Egos and 3-chord learners with heads as big as ten shilling piss pots , it really is tiresome , and you just have to live for those occasions when people would rather see the guest perform, than someone who has been religiously learning some 24 verse dirge, sing it badly with stops and starts, and eat into the guests time.
Blame Thatcher - is the ME,ME,ME attitude.
Oh woe is me.

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Alan Day
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 06:07 PM

It is strange how some clubs greet new visiting artists with open arms and others completely ignore them.A big guest will attract not only the regular club performers, but a number of guest artists.The club being packed out seems to bring the worst out in the regular performers who insist that they go on and bad luck to any visitor.Even the artist that has been booked can have their time reduced by this unreasonable reaction from the regulars.
Al

Subject: RE: Review: Worst club and why
From: Betsy
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 06:06 PM

Gervase - you gave a great response to the thread - I think we've all wasted time, money, energy and expectations on that sort of occasion.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Rasener
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 04:56 PM

LOL we gave them a good lickin on Saturday :-) Not that it is anything to gloat about. Derby County are so bad

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 04:39 PM

Derby County

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM

gotta be the best German meal....aufschnitt.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 02:02 PM

The Wurst Club

Charlotte R (also GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:54 PM )

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: TheSnail
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 02:01 PM

I once went to one where absolutely everybody was wearing swirly panchromatic trousers.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:55 PM

I think you can have a rubbish night at a good club, and a good night at a rubbish club. Its all an bit in the lap of the gods. Some of the best nights I've had have been in clubs where i wouldn't want to suck up to the cruddy denizens as a performer, but they just happened to have booked a brilliant guest.

Similarly you can go to a brilliant club and some lunatic will think of an ingenious way of sodding up the whole evening for everybody.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:55 PM

whorst club act?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:54 PM

Now this guy is completely nuts

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM

You rang?

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Emma B
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:24 PM

this one

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:15 PM

'What's that got to do with the thread? Absolutely nothing as usual.'

the as usual bit at the end of the remark says, loud and clear, one of the usual suspects/posters

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Nick
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 01:08 PM

A lot depends on what you expect - or have been led to expect. I have been to places that I would not return to and places that I wax lyrical to all and sundry. Others may go to the same places with different expectations and have a completely different experience.

We run a weekly get together which I have talked about before so won't bore you where we sing, play and even occasionally have Les Barker monologues or the occasional poem. Some of it is chorus, some of it is session all playing together some of it is individual (there is a list here on another thread of a week's worth of songs and tunes from a while ago). We try to be friendly to outsiders and make them welcome, encourage people to get involved (there was a lovely bit of unaccompanied singing recently from a young lad who came with his mother who would be about 12 I'd guess) and generally are what we are.

There was a man who came to visit once (one of the few who has never returned) who I think would put us down as one of the worse places he had been to judging by what he said to me (before I smacked him with a shovel - no, not really!). We sang all the wrong songs including 'The Deserter' by Fairport which should never be heard anywhere - there were guitars and fiddles - some people didn't do traditional songs (shock horror) and the women's beards probably weren't long enough. In short, we weren't what he was looking for or perhaps expecting. That he had to be so offensive about it when he was a visitor was I think wrong but chacun a son gout as they say. Perhaps what was surprising was that he had been invited by a long term regular who you would think might have explained a little more but there you go. Perhaps he has an agenda to change the places he visits into what he believes they should be rather than what they are.

One man's meat and all that.

I had a visit to a very respected singing venue which I found unhospitable but had a very civilised dialogue on this site with the chap who ran it when I explained my experience - it wasn't name and shame, just my particular experience and I don't thik any offence was taken just perhaps a little surprise.

To end on a positive note - Wigan folk club I'd recommend to anyone who enjoys a participatory singaround experience because it was brilliant; there's a pub in the backstreets of Dunstable that I thought was lovely and I can't remember the name (Tuesday night I think with a wooden floor in the back of the pub); Sunday afternoons in Beverley has always been enjoyable; Swinton folk club the few times I have visited; the Ormidale hotel in Arran on a Sunday evening - to name but a few.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: GUEST,Mike Cain
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 12:41 PM

I cannot see a problem with relating bad experiences and mentioning the venues. Like all bad publicity(consider the consumer world)it will those make responsible for the product or service take onboard the criticisms, do something about it and improve or ignore it and go to the wall. In the case of the latter we will be better off without it.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 12:26 PM

It can be OK, but it depends how it is done. In this case, an invitation for people to mention their worst club leads to a creation of a blacklist. If you are the organiser of one of the clubs likely to end on that list you would like a fair chance at responding, would you not? yet many of the organisers do not attend this forum, and are therefore denied that chance. They are tried in absentia, as it were.

"And so?" I hear you ask, "Let market forces do their work". But I don't consider a conversation on Mudcat to be equivalent to "market forces" - it is a trial "in camera".

Still, I don't suppose I will persuade otherwise those determined enough to name and shame here. So let their own conscience be their guide.

Subject: RE: Review: Whorst club and why
From: Graveyard
Date: 14 Apr 08 - 12:19 PM

I think it is quite ok to mention folk clubs you did not enjoy, especially if you say why