England's National Musical-Instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:48 PM

HEY!!! DICKLESS SLIMETURNIP!!! Yeah, Wavy, that's you....

Answer the questions that Pip asked. There are SEVEN questions. Write a number 1....Now write your answer to her first question. Next write a number 2 and then the answer to THAT question.

Its simple and only a total nabob and simpleshit would not be able to do it. What with all your fine education and technical prowess it should be a snap. Just do it the way I said, no dumbfuck references to your pathetic life's lack of work.....Just the answers to 7 easy questions. Any other answers not in that for mat will be strtuck down as non-responsive.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:45 PM

the news is, we are now, sadly, moving toward record amounts of unemployment

Just goes to show you know fuck all about the history of the country you're living in.


Pip has asked you a series of questions which you repeatedly avoid answering which demonstrates that you're not only a racist but also a coward.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon (still awaiting straight answers)
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:26 PM

I've read them again and have covered them

But refuse to give a straight answer. What are you trying to hide?

And to somewhat petulant Volgadon and Woody - I was out at a singaround last night, and will now address Pip, AGAIN: I've said, as part of my regulationism, that economic/capitalist (NOT all) immigration/emigration should be stopped, the world over, from now on.

That is not what pip asked.

Granma's post exemplifies how Eliza can set the mood here - after what WAS a misunderstanding, she tells me to F-off, and then follows a stream of childish, false and defamatory, kick-him-while-he's down attacks, from most of the rest of you.

WHAT misunderstanding?

PLEASE ANSWER THIS, WITHOUT EVADING AND IGNORING IT.

"Now Wav, do you think that just anybody would be asked to edit the revised edition of the Penguin book of English Folksongs?
And guess who is on the cover.
Take a good look at the picture.
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/cefs.htm

But what is Israeli music, Wav, and doesn't that come into conflict with your statement that goes along the lines of the tradition is people doing things the way their ancestors did? Mine aren't from Israel.
Is this Israeli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08lKGzOGRKE"

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:17 PM

I've read them again and have covered them

David, let me put it like this. Is it true that England is currently a multi-cultural country?

Do you believe that trying to have a multiple number of cultures living under the one state law will always cause problems?

Do you therefore believe that England should not be a multi-cultural country?

Is it true to say that cultures are carried, lived and perpetuated by people?

Do you therefore believe that people who don't have an English culture should not come to England?

Do you also believe that it would have been preferable if people who don't have an English culture had not come to England in the past?

Do you specifically believe that England would have been a better place if there had not been large-scale immigration of non-Europeans over the last 50 years?

Seven questions, mostly quite straightforward. You haven't answered them already, so don't tell me you have.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 01:06 PM

So, two directions this goes in. Firstly, the comment about how Israeli musicians ought to perform "Israeli music". A rather extraordinary degree of igniorance about the whole culture of Israel there. In fact Israeli musicians are doing an EXCELLENT job of making music relevant to the society they live in, by combining music brought from wherever in the world Jewish immigrants have come from with the whole range of music that was there before they arrived. The heterogeneity of the result is the whole POINT. It's one of the major areas of the culture where Jews (of whatever regional origin) and Palestinians (of whatever ideology) can cooperate in a serious, productive and often exhilarating way.

Excellent point, Jack. Just the one I was going to make with Wav, thanks for putting it into words so well.

My Arab coworkers all have Israeli songs on their phones, as well as Arab music. I once talked through Skype with a SYRIAN, who wanted me to translate the words of an Israeli song. The song I linked to, Jerusalem of Gold, is considered one of our folksongs, everyone knows it, but the melody is a modification of a Basque tune, brought over by Paco Ibanez. One of my favourite bands is Habrera Hativit, which combined North African and Indian music with Hasidic music too. Ehud Banai, a folk-rocker (can't think of a better term) combines Persian music with Arab, Yemenite, American, Irish and other genres. Nothing sounds more Israeli. Even our folk music is a fusion of four main genres: Eastern European, Ladino (music of the Mediteranean Jews) Yemenite, and Arab. Emanuel Zamir, in an atempt to create a new, Israeli sound which would be closer to our historic roots, seriously studied Bedouin music. When as chief-of-staff, Rafael Eitan reformed the army bands into choirs, he was asked what sort of songs they should sing. Traditional Israeli songs. When pressed for details, he replied: Russian songs, of course.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 12:55 PM

I've read them again and have covered them - however, having just watched the news, I'll add this: Labour have recently claimed that they fixed the roof during the good economic weather of the last decade or so; on the contrary, what they did was allow record amounts of economic/capitalist immigration and, the news is, we are now, sadly, moving toward record amounts of unemployment.
Cheeky Ralphie - it's you that is dodging (see just above).

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 10:04 AM

WAV
Pip doesn't think that you've answered anything.
Along with the rest of us!
Go On.
It's easy. Start at Question 1 and then continue until you finish.
Surely a man of your undoubted talents can do that?
What with a degree in fork lifting under your belt!(Have you no Humanity? Whoops, sorry I forgot that you have)
Slight lack of mentions for youe website recently. How come? Ashamed of it?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:23 AM

I'm strangely reminded of one of my favourite scenes from Citizen Smith. In the local pub, Wolfie's just had an altercation with a blazer-clad posh boy and had to back down. Wolfie turns away.

WOLFIE [sotto voce]: "Ponce."
POSH BOY [in tones of offended dignity]: "I didn't hear that!"
WOLFIE: "Oh." [sotto voce] "Deaf ponce."

All you're doing at the moment, David, is promoting yourself from the 'racist' category into the one marked 'dishonest racist'.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:15 AM

No, David, you haven't so much as addressed my questions, let alone answered them 'adequately'.

Are all of those statements true? If not, which of them is untrue?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 09:00 AM

...By focusing on what's best FROM NOW ON, I did adequately answer Pip's, Ralphie - it's you who hasn't answered mine...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:45 AM

I'm puzzled as to what a "good REGULTION| is at the moment.
Come on Wav, answer Pips questions, theres a good chap

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 08:02 AM

I was out at a singaround last night, and will now address Pip, AGAIN: I've said, as part of my regulationism, that economic/capitalist (NOT all) immigration/emigration should be stopped, the world over, from now on.

Sorry, you seem to be answering someone or something else. Here's the question I asked. Which of these statements is inaccurate, if any?

1. England is currently a multi-cultural country.

2. You believe that trying to have a multiple number of cultures living under the one state law will always cause problems.

3. You therefore believe that England should not be a multi-cultural country.

4. Cultures are carried, lived and perpetuated by people.

5. You therefore believe that people who don't have an English culture should not come to England.

6. You also believe that it would have been preferable if people who don't have an English culture had not come to England in the past.

7. Specifically, you believe that England would have been a better place if there had not been large-scale immigration of non-Europeans over the last 50 years.

(Just spotted I had two number 5s in the original comment, but the renumbering is the only change I've made.)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 07:45 AM

Granma's post exemplifies how Eliza can set the mood here - after what WAS a misunderstanding, she tells me to F-off, and then follows a stream of childish, false and defamatory, kick-him-while-he's down attacks, from most of the rest of you.
Meanwhile, my accurate post about good REGULTIONS at NE folk festival competitions (follow the links for the list), regarding local material and unaccompanied singing, has been completely ignored.
And to somewhat petulant Volgadon and Woody - I was out at a singaround last night, and will now address Pip, AGAIN: I've said, as part of my regulationism, that economic/capitalist (NOT all) immigration/emigration should be stopped, the world over, from now on.
And again to Ralphie - since my myspace music (use above link, if you wish) is so bad that you don't want me attending your folk club, you'd better tell me which one it is - as, despite all the above remarks, I remain a keen English folkie (whose performances some HAVE apparently enjoyed).

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: peregrina
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:51 AM

What Stigweard said. Precisely.

There is even another thread for musical melting pot discussion

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 15 Oct 08 - 02:24 AM

The boy's winding us all up, and we're falling for it. Surely.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:51 PM

"In fact Israeli musicians are doing an EXCELLENT job of making music relevant to the society they live in, by combining music brought from wherever in the world Jewish immigrants have come from with the whole range of music that was there before they arrived. The heterogeneity of the result is the whole POINT. It's one of the major areas of the culture where Jews (of whatever regional origin) and Palestinians (of whatever ideology) can cooperate in a serious, productive and often exhilarating way."

Amen. I love the music of Palestinian and Jewish fusion music, and find it holds out some dim ray of hope in an otherwise hopelessly intransigent situation.

I think WAV would HATE the artistic policy we launched on Saturday at Sidmouth which, while celebrating English tradition, deliberately acknowledges the wonderful blends and diverse mixes which result from Britain's many non-indigenous cultures being here. One of the things that gives me great joy: a young musician of Cypriot extraction who plays both the music of his heritage and English trad - he's currently doing the degree at Newcatle, and is bloody talented. Another is a traditional Zimbabwean singer and dancer who has lived for many years in Kent, and in addition to providing wonderful workshops and performances in his native traditions, has gone out of his way to learn morris dancing.

When WAV fills me with despair, I think of people like these and I smile, because in the end, we have won. Let Waveydavey stew and fume in his backward little backwater; wonderful things are happening in the real world, and I will do all I can to make sure they get the attention and platform they deserve.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:16 PM

Sue. Well said..
But you and I know that he won't...
(Shuffles off to bed shaking his head in bewilderment......)
Regards Ralph

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Sue Allan
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 07:08 PM

At the risk of sounding like Victor Meldrew: I don't believe it!
I haven't been on Mudcat for weeks and now I do I see WAV's insane thread is STILL on the go. Reading through it (only because it's a displacement activity: I'm supposed to be writing something else)Malcolm Douglas' post stands out as the embodiment of both erudition and common sense. Heed him WAV, heed him. And just shut up.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:51 PM

Wav

When someone as illustrious as Ms Carthy tells you to Fuck Off, (along with the rest of us).
Maybe you should just do it.
Having read through all of your many threads, I have not read 1 message that supports your wierd views.
God Almighty, you must have the hide of a Rhino to keep coming back here just to get slapped again.
Maybe thats how you get your kicks?
The one upside to this particularly sad thread is that I've encountered many erudite and funny people. So, trying to be positive, Thank you Oh Wavy one for allowing sensible posters to converse with each other.
Without you, the rest of us might never have met.
Thanks Guys and Gals. Will meet again on other threads no doubt!

As for you Wav....Go Forth and Multiply, (but not in a multiracial way)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:22 PM

I'm not that bothered if he answers Pip's questions or not. I think of idiots like that on web forums as acting like human yarrow sticks in an I Ching divination - a bundle of sticks doesn't actually need any brains to spark off connections you might not have thought of. You certainly don't think of yourself as communicating with the sticks when you reflect on the commentary.

So, two directions this goes in. Firstly, the comment about how Israeli musicians ought to perform "Israeli music". A rather extraordinary degree of igniorance about the whole culture of Israel there. In fact Israeli musicians are doing an EXCELLENT job of making music relevant to the society they live in, by combining music brought from wherever in the world Jewish immigrants have come from with the whole range of music that was there before they arrived. The heterogeneity of the result is the whole POINT. It's one of the major areas of the culture where Jews (of whatever regional origin) and Palestinians (of whatever ideology) can cooperate in a serious, productive and often exhilarating way.

Secondly: let's look at the result of the one attempt there has been to implement Franks's programme in a thoroughgoing way, i.e. the cultural policy of the Third Reich. It turned out to be catastrophically destructive to German traditional music *more than any other* - Jews and Gypsies may have been slaughtered wholesale but culturally they got the last laugh: their music came out of WW2 largely intact. I remember asking a German singer around 1980 why he didn't do any traditional German material - he said "there is blood on those songs", and his attitude was that of the two generations that came after the war. Nothing could undo the damage done by having it used as a training tool in making children into robot killers for the Hitler state. Even now it has nowhere near recovered the status of something you can just play in public for fun, without making a political statement about why you're doing it. It's hardly surprising that almost all German folkies do Irish music instead.

The greatest favour Franks could now do for English music is to shut the fuck up about it, refrain from associating his pustulent Daily Mail ideology with it, and take his asinine website off the air for good. I don't expect he will, but we can still use a steady supply of random verbal hexagrams.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:41 PM

WAV,I dont like your viewpoint on English traditional music.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Woody
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 05:30 PM

WAV - why don't you answer Pip's questions?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:48 PM

Answer Pip's questions.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Darowyn
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:48 PM

There are some forums which have an "ignore" facility, so that if one should choose to ignore a contributor, their posts will never sully your monitor screen.
I cannot imagine how anyone could put up with the lambasting that WAV has had and still think himself welcome in the company of Mudcatters.
Perhaps he should move from the North to the Midlands- to a town associated with that well known English legend, Lady Godiva.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:45 PM

You know, I really get kind of disgusted with myself when I think of the inordinate amount of time I've wasted on this nincompoop.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:21 PM

WaV - Good answers to my questions might have been "economic" and "no". Think about it.
That said, cultural diversity isn't going to have any negative effect on the preservation of any perceived 'English culture'; quite the opposite I reckon. Anyone throwing the odd Tibetan goat-milking shanty into their act is going to be fairly careful to point out its non-English origins for the benefit of the less informed members of their audience, lest they mistake it for a Derbyshire love song, for example. Oh dear, I appear to have started rambling..

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 03:17 PM

Answer me, please.

"But what is Israeli music, Wav, and doesn't that come into conflict with your statement that goes along the lines of the tradition is people doing things the way their ancestors did? Mine aren't from Israel.
Is this Israeli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08lKGzOGRKE"

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:40 PM

I asked a market trader where his fruit had come from . . . etc

It was said to me, as were the blatantly racist remarks of a London Co-op shopkeeper when, as a district committee member, I was examining the stock for what shouldn't have been there. He was in business to make profit and not to observe "political" boycotts.

The point I was making was that these are exactly the attitudes of "separate development" WAV would applaud.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:32 PM

"Surreysinger - I didn't have to look up 'dullard,' and I think only a dullard or a bigot would call someone with 4 technical certificates and a degree in humanities a dullard."

This is really pretty limp, David. Your technical certificates and degree do not qualify you to speak on matters of ethnomusicology, which is the field you are trying to lay down rules and laws for. When you are wrong, you are wrong, no matter how many degrees and certificates you can wave about. Even if you had a Ph.D in Ethnomusicology, you would still be wrong if you kept on saying what you're saying.

And whether you like it or not, whether you believe it or not, the person who says "I have nothing against (insert ethnic or national group). In fact, I like them very much. But I just don't want them living next door to me," is a bigot, no matter how vociferously they try to deny it.

Volgadon, sing whatever you want to sing. And enjoy!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:16 PM

That's exactly what i was thinking. Considering how many of the students I've observed populating festival sessions, and the ones who, post-degree, perform in bands and ensembles, and the material I've heard them playing and singing, I reckon the majority of their repertoires is English.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Gervase
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 02:02 PM

whilst the English students I've seen perform mostly non-English music.
Indeed Ruth, I think he's talking through his fundament (yet again). By the time they graduate, most of the students seem to perform English music, so there must be something going on there...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:51 PM

It's not worth it, Pip R - you won't get a straight answer. I said about 3,000 posts ago that DF simply stalls, postures evasively, and makes back-references to his crappy, half-arsed website - all in "answer" to the many questions posed here. Pointless.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:47 PM

Here's a direct question for you, David. Which of these statements is inaccurate, if any?

1. England is currently a multi-cultural country.

2. You believe that trying to have a multiple number of cultures living under the one state law will always cause problems.

3. You therefore believe that England should not be a multi-cultural country.

4. Cultures are carried, lived and perpetuated by people.

5. You therefore believe that people who don't have an English culture should not come to England

5. You also believe that it would have been preferable if people who don't have an English culture had not come to England in the past.

6. Specifically, you believe that England would have been a better place if there had not been large-scale immigration of non-Europeans over the last 50 years.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:30 PM

"whilst the English students I've seen perform mostly non-English music.)"

I don't believe you.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:23 PM

It answers it the best I can, Volgadon - I don't have statistics; the only other thing I can add is that the competitions I just referred to can be found by following the links, and from there you could find some of their good REGULATIONS regarding local material, unaccompanied singing, etc.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:14 PM

I think that answers Stigweard and Volgadon as well
How does that answer this:
"Now Wav, do you think that just anybody would be asked to edit the revised edition of the Penguin book of English Folksongs?
And guess who is on the cover."
Take a good look at the picture.
http://www.mustrad.org.uk/reviews/cefs.htm



But what is Israeli music, Wav, and doesn't that come into conflict with your statement that goes along the lines of the tradition is people doing things the way their ancestors did? Mine aren't from Israel.
Is this Israeli?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08lKGzOGRKE

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 01:01 PM

"David, I hope that by mentioning me in the same post as saying that English folkies by and large perform music from other cultures you weren't suggesting I do that thing, because I'll remind you that out of 19 albums to date only two of them have been material other than traditional English material, and those two were self-penned. The contents of the latest self-penned out of those two contains 50% trad material in melody even. I have always been and remain committed to the playing and promulgation of English traditions, songs and music, more than most, and certainly more than you." (Eliza)...no I wasn't, believe it or not - I was going by the singing and instrumental sessions I've attended: NOT the competitions which usually REQUIRE local material and sometimes unaccompanied singing. (And I think that answers Stigweard and Volgadon as well - but I'll add that the Folk-degree Scots students I've seen at the Sage Gateshead perform mostly Scottish music, whilst the English students I've seen perform mostly non-English music.)
Surreysinger - I didn't have to look up "dullard," and I think only a dullard or a bigot would call someone with 4 technical certificates and a degree in humanities a dullard.
Volgadon - SINCE YOU ASKED, if you were born and live in Israel, I think you should practise and perform Israeli music, whilst appreciating the music of other lands.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 12:40 PM

I asked a market trader where his fruit had come from. He reassured me that his oranges were not from there. "It's not nice to think of all those black hands all over them", he sympathised.

I've heard this same story from so many sources over the years that I've always assumed it to be an Urban Myth. I'm not doubting your word, Diane - after all, this is the first time I've heard it in the first person - but it's an oft told tale, a classic of Foaf-lore indeed, as it was back then too as I recall.

do you think that just anybody would be asked to edit the revised edition of the Penguin book of English Folksongs?

What follows is from the introduction to the 1959 edition. The fact that it remained as part of such an important part of the English Folk Song revival has always made me feel at a tad uneasy about the whole business.

A search for the roots of jazz leads to American folk song, and a search for the origins of American folk song leads the astonished enthusiast back home to his own traditional music. (RWV & ALL)

Astonished indeed! Is it in the revised edition I wonder? Let's hope not, no matter who's on the cover... Who is on the cover anyway? The cover of my 1969 paperback shows The Dancing Bear by W F Witherington which I chanced upon recently in a visit to the Walker Gallery in Liverpool, having no idea it was there. Certainly put a smile on my face, which was wiped when I realised in my haste to get to to Medieval Manuscripts I'd walked past Waterhouse's Echo and Narcissus without noticing it.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:48 AM

"And, as said here, while some Scots and Irish are, of course, performing the music of other nations, the percentages are nowhere near that of English folkies"

Prove it. Do you want to supply refs to back up this statement? No tradition exists in isolation, and the traditions of these Islands exist in a state of close co-existence and long may it remain so.

I showed an example, of just 3 Planxty CDs, which show Wav to be wrong. He hasn't commented on it.

Now Wav, do you think that just anybody would be asked to edit the revised edition of the Penguin book of English Folksongs?
And guess who is on the cover.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:26 AM

I got this chap to come and replace some bits of floorboards where someone had helpfully poured cement to fill up gaps. Getting him to use seasoned timber was a tad fraught. Endowed as he was with the aesthetic tastes and design skills of a dung beetle, he completely missed in the point with his puzzled whinge of "It'll be all right with carpet over it",

At the height of the economic boycott of goods from the South African apartheid regime, I asked a market trader where his fruit had come from. He reassured me that his oranges were not from there. "It's not nice to think of all those black hands all over them", he sympathised.

WAV is both these people. Dim and nasty. He's been around for four years (wow!) yet has failed to realise that Malcolm Douglas is the bees' knees when it comes to knowing stuff and that Eliza C is the dogs' bollocks in versatility and excellence.

May I join the queue in exhorting you to fuck off.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 11:02 AM

If for some reason there was anyone on Mudcat who held any residual respect for you Wavybrokedick, you lost it all with that disrespectful comment about Malcolm Douglas. He "seems to be"???????? You dumbass........HE IS!!!!!! He's the REAL THING that you so longingly aspire to be and yet prove through remarks like that one that you will NEVER BE.

You really ARE pathetic.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 10:29 AM

"And Eliza PC? Now you can fuck off."

Glorious.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:53 AM

>> And speaking of Aus., I see Ralphie/Nellie/Chief Laissez Fairy has made yet another comeback to call me a "dullard".

No WAV ... if you care to read Ralphie's posting properly, you will see that he actually came back onto this thread as you asked who other than the one name you mentioned played the cittern. I pointed this out to him, as I know that he does .... hence his return. Out of the 12 line posting the first 11 are solely related to the cittern, the type of music that he uses it for (ie generally not English) etc. Only the very last short sentence, as an afterthought expresses his opinioni that you are a dullard ...I looked that up. I wonder if you did - it's an opinion which I think more than one person on this thread has expressed... and quite often more than once. But whatever the rights and wrongs of that... that was NOT ,as far as I know, the principle reason for Ralphie's return.

As to your rather condescending statement that Malcolm Douglas "seems" (!) to know what he's talking about, I'm afraid that it does suggest yet again that you are _still_ not aware, despite having it more than once pointed out to you, that many of the people posting to this thread are actually authorities in their area, and have studied the subject area that you have dabbled your toes in for most of their lives.(I would hardly call four years acquaintance with the subject an intense study ... particularly not if based on just a few CD's, an encyclopedia entry (what do they usually know?), and the very occasional TV programme, of which there have been scarcely any of relevance)

Oh well, back to trying to perfect my performance of an Irish broadside ballad,collected by an English Victorian folksong collector (oh no, sorry, she was born in Scotland, though she lived most of her life in London), and performed to a duet concertina accompaniment (wonder if that's allowed?)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:38 AM

"And, as said here, while some Scots and Irish are, of course, performing the music of other nations, the percentages are nowhere near that of English folkies"

Prove it. Do you want to supply refs to back up this statement? No tradition exists in isolation, and the traditions of these Islands exist in a state of close co-existence and long may it remain so.

i hate sprouts, so imagine my surprise when I tried one raw, and it worked.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 09:09 AM

David, I hope that by mentioning me in the same post as saying that English folkies by and large perform music from other cultures you weren't suggesting I do that thing, because I'll remind you that out of 19 albums to date only two of them have been material other than traditional English material, and those two were self-penned. The contents of the latest self-penned out of those two contains 50% trad material in melody even. I have always been and remain committed to the playing and promulgation of English traditions, songs and music, more than most, and certainly more than you.
And Eliza PC? Now you can fuck off.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 08:50 AM

Wav, tell me what I should sing and play.
I was born in Israel, but my parents are from the USA. Dad's family is Jewish, from Bukovina and Galicia mostly, while mum's family are not Jewish and are of Anglo-Scottish extraction with several Scandinavians thrown in. Mum's grandmother was born in Mexico, Dad's grandparents in what is currently Ukraine.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:58 AM

other than Michael Tyack, who is playing the wire-strung, 5 times 2 course, elusive English cittern?

John McCusker plays one, but wait a minute, damn he's Scottish!

Simon Emmerson plays one and he's English! But wait, shock horror, he's in bands with Asians! and Africans! This will never do....

Oh yes, 800

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:47 AM

"Also, while Stigweard is off playing his Greek bouzouki, may I ask, other than Michael Tyack, who is playing the wire-strung, 5 times 2 course, elusive English cittern?..."

It certainly isn't a greek bouzouki - that's a three-course round-backed instrument (although the mighty Alec Finn plays one to great effect in De Dannan).

It's an Irish Bouzouki, made in Norfolk by John Hullah, of the sort used for accompanying Irish, English, Breton, Scottish, Welsh and Asturian traditional music. It's up for sale if you want it as I've got one on order from Joe Foley in Dublin.

My friend Flanny plays a Sobell Cittern, not that elusive if you get out of the house and mix with traditional musicians, who tend to understand the subtleties of the culture they live in, especially when the influence excerpted by them and from their neighbours make the traditions so very interesting. There are exceptions of course, and some people who claim insight and understanding don't have a fecking clue what they're talking about.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:44 AM

"I do think trying to have a multiple number of cultures living under the one state law will always cause problems - the most extreme of which is a current court case regarding terrorism and doctors."

Of course, pointing out cases of terrorism as a reason why cultures should live seperately is in no way culturally or racially stereotyping great swathes of people; nor is it writing off all of the many cultures which have managed to peacefully co-exist in England for centuries (long before that big, scary non-white migration of the 50s which basically equates to WAV's Ground Zero...)



"Ruth Archer/Joan Crumb"

Honestly, Wavey - if wit were shit you'd be constipated.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 14 Oct 08 - 06:41 AM

It could be worse, Gervase : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eggE7K2j_uo

Or even http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-mKnY2HMXg - in which we hear it sung to the melody of The Water is Wide.

And here's one just for WAV:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFaWjnr9C7o

Your territory's calling!