England's National Musical-Instrument?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Stu sans cookie
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:49 PM

As I read it WAV you left Australia for the UK as a protest against the policy towards the Australian Aboriginal and the loss of their land rights. Why didn't you stay and attempt to address the issue? Did you have the vote in Australia? Do you still have the vote in Australia? Do you have the vote in the United Kingdom?

Will you leave the UK as a protest against the governments immigration policies?

Just curious

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 01:59 PM

Volgadon - see above, we've covered that.

Joseph - thanks, I had a look and put it on my favourites, but my best chance remains manufacturing; I haven't seen either of those groups you saw on "Friday - at the lovely Sage.. Mawkin:Causley and The Shee", but I have seen members through the Newcastle folk degree etc, and know Jim C. quite well. "where were you?" (J)...I've probably paid to see about 20 gigs the last 4 years, but only occasionally nowadays to avoid going broke.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:02 PM

What about the land rights of the Ancient Britons? Oh. I'm forgetting - it's from tomorrow we're calling immigration a bad thing, isn't it?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:21 PM

"Volgadon - see above, we've covered that."

David, I do not find where you have covered that at all. If you indeed did—and if you wish to add a measure of credibility to such statements—it would help if you would reference the date and time of your post in which you covered the matter.

When you stated that you had covered the matter of banning the practice of ballerinas dancing en pointe (on their toes) because of potential lower-leg injuries, you referred me to one of your poems, in which you mentioned having actually seen Swan Lake and The Nutcracker, which doesn't exactly make you an authority on classical ballet. This was hardly what I would call "covering" the matter.

Just saying that you "covered that" doesn't wash. So let's see an answer to Volgadon's question just above.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 02:28 PM

WAV, I have read all (or nearly so) of this thread and also the weekly walkabout and the 5000 morris dancers thread. I don't recall you specifically saying why your parents (and you) moved to Australia when you were three or why you moved back to England at age 30. I would like you to explain even if you have done so already. Thank you.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,VOlgadon
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 03:15 PM

Volgadon - see above, we've covered that.

See WHAT above? Please go into detail. Which point of mine are you reffering to?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 28 Oct 08 - 04:49 PM

WaV, you just aren't English mate, you're not even good at pretending to be, and you certainly have no right to tell us how to be. To me you will always be an Australian immigrant, obviously intent on not actually 'being English' and in a state of denial about it. However, I should make it clear that I would never discriminate against you for being an Australian or an immigrant.

Do you honestly believe you are right and everyone else is wrong? Haven't you ever wondered why people disagree with you so much? Has anyone ever actually agreed with you about this stuff? Why is your forum name so blatantly Australian? Why do you emphasise the fact that you are from Australia so much?

Answers in fluent gibberish, please.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:15 AM

Smokey - of course I'm aware that my views are heavily against the status quo (but not quite as heavily as they were a few months ago, with so called "world leaders" now talking of global regulations, etc.; and even New Labour finally questioning diversity with English tests, etc.). But why you don't think it's good that I've made an effort with English songs, hymns, etc. baffles me, and I can only hope those who have repatriated to the Celtic Tiger recently are being better appreciated. Perhaps the term "walkabout" does derive from Aboriginal Australia, but nowadays it's used widely here to describe someone out and about to visit a place and meet folks, yes? Finally, calling me an Australian or an immigrant, rather than an English repat., IS wrong as I WAS born here.

The other queries have been covered already when I stressed, given that all that conquest and economic/capialist immigration/emigration has occured, which included me as a 3 year old, "what's best from now on"...I've said regulations should be greatly increased, assimilation, a stronger more-democratic UN, etc.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:14 AM

I've said regulations should be greatly increased, assimilation, a stronger more-democratic UN

So why have you made no such efforts to assimilate yourself, Wavy? You decry or hard-won multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society and the freedoms thereof; you decry our beloved monarchy; you decry our age-long traditions of accompanying folk songs with anything we see fit to do so; you decry our cultural, historical, musical & linguistic affinities with our neighbouring countries; you decry the presence of Scotsmen in England and Englishmen in Ireland and Irishmen in Lancashire. In fact, you come to our England and have the bare faced cheek to to tell us that it isn't as English it was some seventeen years before you were even born!

As Jack Campin so rightly pointed out:

You're only English in your head. By any external measure you're Australian.

And if being English in your head is what counts, then the entire post-Empire-Windrush generation of Commonwealth immigrants were English too. They certainly saw themselves that way - subjects of the same Queen. And they got here years before the English folk revival took off, with their own folk traditions that substantially influenced it.

So show them some goddamn respect.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:57 AM

"you decry our beloved monarchy"

Not my beloved monarchy. Bollocks to the lot of them. I'm a republican.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 10:03 AM

WAV, I have read all (or nearly so) of this thread and also the weekly walkabout and the 5000 morris dancers thread. I don't recall you specifically saying why your parents (and you) moved to Australia when you were three or why you moved back to England at age 30. I would like you to explain even if you have done so already. Thank you.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:16 AM

ANSWER MY POINTS PLEASE, including the ones Don and I asked you to answer.


Smokey - of course I'm aware that my views are heavily against the status quo (but not quite as heavily as they were a few months ago, with so called "world leaders" now talking of global regulations, etc.; and even New Labour finally questioning diversity with English tests, etc.).

Please elaborate. You know, DETAILS.

As for his England being more English in 1958 point, there is a Russian saying which I find really appropriate. "Where we aren't is always better."

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Stu sans cookie
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 12:54 PM

So are you entitled to vote in Australia?

Stu

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 02:19 PM

for petes sake is this still going on,1163 post featuring and promoting walkabouts verse,this thread willreach 3000,before wav answers questions,he reminds me of TrevorBailey,or JWHT[Johnny wont hit today] DOUGLAS,two of the most stonewalling batsmen who you would die of boredom watching,Ihave died of boredom listening to wavs drivel.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 02:35 PM

"You're only English in your head. By any external measure you're Australian."

By whose external measure? Define the criteria that makes someone English. Where is this scale of external measure? Yours?

In the same way WAV shouldn't decide who stays and who goes why should anyone else decide who is English or not? He was born here so that gives him some claim to be English. In fact, if both his parents are English he might be more English than me, as my Mum's Welsh. So where I am on both yours and WAV's tick-box list of criteria for being English?

I was born in Hampshire, moved to when I was 18 months odd and raised in Brum until I was 16 and have lived 26 years in the north - what does that make me then? I know where I feel I come from, but you tell me where I fit in.

Jesus.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:10 PM

stigweard - remember Jack's next sentence:

"And if being English in your head is what counts, then the entire post-Empire-Windrush generation of Commonwealth immigrants were English too."

Let WAV be English if he wants to. But what he really wants to be is more English than other residents of this country, and that he surely isn't.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:22 PM

"stigweard - remember Jack's next sentence"

I'm not defending WAV's viewpoint, believe me. I concur with the rest of Jack's post and get your point, but does that excuse the first statement? If WAV had said that about someone on this board then he would have been roasted even more than he already is being.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:41 PM

'As for his England being more English in 1958 point, there is a Russian saying which I find really appropriate. "Where we aren't is always better."' (Volgadon)...sounds similar to "the grass is always greener"?...or "the solution is to leave, or stay and be part of the solution?

"So are you entitled to vote in Australia?" (Stu)...No, as I don't reside there - I found this out when I turned up at the consulate in Manchester a few years ago to try and vote for Australian independence.

"he reminds me of TrevorBailey,or JWHT[Johnny wont hit today] DOUGLAS,two of the most stonewalling batsmen who you would die of boredom watching,Ihave died of boredom listening to wavs drivel." (BC)...or Redpath or Boycott!...in a low junior grade, I carried my bat once (intro. poem 0-19).

And to a few: I'm still baffled as to why you would be so bothered by the fact that, whatever my ability, I've made an effort, as a repat., with English folk songs and hymns - which I genuinely do like hearing and practising/performing.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 03:47 PM

"I'm still baffled as to why you would be so bothered by the fact that, whatever my ability, I've made an effort, as a repat., with English folk songs and hymns - which I genuinely do like hearing and practising/performing."

Re-read all of Eliza's, Malcolm's and the others who know what they are talking about and you might just get it.

You're a wind-up merchant WAV!

Twll dy din di!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Surreysinger
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:36 PM

Would have helped if you'd put that in English for WAV's sake Stig... not all of us on this board are Welsh speakers... although that is one dubious phrase that I was quickly taught (but never used) in the three years I lived there....

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 04:36 PM

You're only English in your head. By any external measure you're Australian.

WAV is a naturalised Australian who has demonstrated a complete and deliberate ignorance of the richness and complexity of English culture and a total unwillingness to engage with it on any level whatsoever. Instead, he advises on how he thinks it ought to be according to his highly suspect and severely limited criteria. He remains, therefore, only English in his head, and if the external measure is actuality (as it must be) then because of his unwillingness to become a part of that actuality, he remains the naturalised Australian he was when he returned here 11 years ago, aged 30, after 27 years away.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 05:24 PM

Isn't that one of the few really bad Welsh phrases?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:08 PM

Try this:

Useful Welsh Phrases - Swearing

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 06:29 PM

That is a very interesting link, says something about Welsh culture. Swearing I think offers tremendous insights into various cultures.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:33 PM

WaV -

"Smokey - of course I'm aware that my views are heavily against the status quo"

I didn't ask you that though.

"But why you don't think it's good that I've made an effort with English songs, hymns, etc. baffles me"

I never said it wasn't good, but I'm afraid I don't call that making an effort. Nor does it make you any more English. For what it's worth, I think everybody should be allowed to play whatever music they choose - even you.

"Perhaps the term "walkabout" does derive from Aboriginal Australia, but nowadays it's used widely here to describe someone out and about to visit a place and meet folks, yes?"

No, only by morons who watch Australian soap operas. (apologies to all morons)

"calling me an Australian or an immigrant, rather than an English repat., IS wrong as I WAS born here."

I really don't care what your opinion is WaV, it makes no difference to anything I've said. You grew up as an Australian, in Australia, surrounded by Australian culture. I'd guess your passport said you were Australian, and you had to get through immigration controls to live here. You also failed to answer when someone asked you about passports.. Yes, you may well be an English repatriate, but to me you are also an Australian immigrant. I wonder what the Authorities would call you?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 07:44 PM

"Perhaps the term "walkabout" does derive from Aboriginal Australia"

In my arrogance I always assumed they learned English from us..

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 08:22 PM

Good grief, Welsh has its own independent-etymology word for "G-spot"?

Has the Welsh tourist board considered pushing the place as a destination for women looking for a good time?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 29 Oct 08 - 11:19 PM

No point Jack - not with the attractions that Newcastle has to offer.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:22 AM

Thanks for the list IB, I don't really speak very much Welsh at all although my Mum did when she was growing up, as did many of my family on the maternal side. This will certainly add to my vocabulary though.

I'm going to earn Irish I think.

As for WAV, he's a wind-up merchant who plays this board like a fiddle . . . at least he's entertaining.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 05:25 AM

This discussion is about culture, not passports. Whatever passport WAV holds, he grew up and spent his formative years in Australia and his cultural influences are Australian. WAV, do you have any memories of the first three years of your life you spent in England?

On his return he has attempted to assimilate and become English, but keeps getting this wrong, sometimes comically. WAV, we applaud your efforts to discover your English roots, but please be guided by us natives when you get it wrong.

"Perhaps the term "walkabout" does derive from Aboriginal Australia, but nowadays it's used widely here to describe someone out and about to visit a place and meet folks, yes?"

In UK usage, if we say someone's "gone walkabout" it usually means he's gone missing from somewhere he's supposed to be, for example his place of work. We don't usually use it simply to say that someone's gone travelling.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:10 AM

But isn't that the original Australian usage too? Aboriginies dropping work and vanishing for a while?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:40 AM

"Perhaps the term "walkabout" does derive from Aboriginal Australia, but nowadays it's used widely here to describe someone out and about to visit a place and meet folks, yes?" (me)..."No, only by morons who watch Australian soap operas. (apologies to all morons)" (Smokey) and Howard...I'm no monarchist but when the Queen, e.g., goes out to meet people the media here nowadays nearly always describe it as a "walkabout".
And as for "I wonder what the Authorities would call you?"...officially I'm a dual national with two passports.

Stigweard - which fiddle?...

"PLAYING THE FIDDLE?

There are many different fiddles from many different lands – for example, the Chinese erhu fiddle, the Norwegian hardanger fiddle and, the one most in the West now play, the Italian fiddle/violin" (here).

Volgadon - that's roughly my understanding and also the one in the 1970s movie "Walkabout".

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 06:50 AM

Thanks for the "walkabout" definition. I now understand more about its usage as in:

Wavy's talent has gone walkabout.
Wavy's voice has gone walkabout.
Wavy's dick has gone walkabout.

Very useful and accurately descriptive.


Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:03 AM

Face it Catspaw - the below tune is in your head and - no matter how many hours at the catnip or scratching at the bark, no matter how many licks of your paws or Great Tits or Bull Finches consumed - you're never going to get it out: you ARE a WAVaholic, pal!

Poem cum song 2 of 230: WALKABOUT WITH MY PEN

Once drove an old sedan, up north,
From a place in Sydney to Cairns;
Then to Kuranda I went forth,
By train, to look without set plans.

I browsed through the trendy market,
With fresh fruits of tropical kind;
Walked to the creek through lush thicket -
Nature's hand giving peace of mind.

I dined in a scenic cafe;
Then, outside, as I wrote for yen,
Some passing Kooris called-out: "Hey,
You go walkabout with your pen."

Request or question, I don't know -
Assured voices, elderly men.
That's now several years ago,
And I've seen the world - with my pen.

From walkaboutsverse.741.com (use above link to, like Catspaw, have a listen, if you wish/dare).

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Stu
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:11 AM

Stigweard - which fiddle?...

sigh . . .

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:44 AM

corris (n)        c**t

You can get a train up the Corris!

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 07:46 AM

There are many different fiddles from many different lands – for example, the Chinese erhu fiddle, the Norwegian hardanger fiddle and, the one most in the West now play, the Italian fiddle/violin

Another classic example of Wavy's refusal to take on board anything that contradicts his deeply entrenched erroneous viewpoints!

To quote myself from way back:

When people say fiddle they're referring to the violin. The word has an interesting (complex & by no means fully understood) etymology, but in terms of pragmatics it would seem to derive from a verb rather than a noun - a verb which at last yields the noun violin, but it is interesting that in modern musical usage fiddle exists as both a noun and a verb. That said, the iconographical evidence would suggest the earliest bowed instruments in the West were, in fact, lyres (i.e. crwth, juohikko, talharp etc.) rather than lutes (i.e. violin, viol, vielle, rebec etc.) - but, oddly enough, no bowed-lyre was ever called a fiddle.

So - fiddles are thus called by English speakers simply to denote that the instruments in question are played with a bow. It is only English speakers who would call an Erhu a Chinese Fiddle, likewise the Karandeniz Kemence a Black Sea Fiddle, or a Hardingfele a Hardanger Fiddle. The Hardingfele is a specific development of the violin about as far away from the erhu in terms of organological taxonomy as one could wish to get. In terms of classification they're not even in the same family and yet both get called fiddles by English speakers, which only makes them fiddles in the sense of convenient, but not accurate, nomenclature.

For someone who supposedly loves the world being multicultural this counts as an alarming line of colonial thinking on your part, Wavy. It amounts to a disrespectful ignorance in which you wilfully persist no matter how many times you are told. Or is Stigweard right, and you are just doing it to wind people up?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:25 PM

As you have not answered, I must conclude that you agree that immigrants should assimilate. Why then did your parents and yourself not assimilate? Why do you still consider yourself English? Or if you don't consider yourself Australian, why do you have dual citizenship and why did you wait 30 years before repatriating, instead of at the first available opportunity?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 12:42 PM

I'm still wondering why your parents (and you) moved to Australia when you were three and why you moved back to England at age thirty.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 02:11 PM

WaV - When was the last time you paid your way? Who pays your rent? Who pays for your food? Have you ever contributed anything useful, financial or otherwise, to society since you came here? Society doesn't owe you a living - you are sponging off the very people you are insulting. Indeed, you appear to be wanting to deprive us of human rights which, not so long ago, people were willing to give their lives to preserve. Show some respect.

You are a waste of time and space, and you are seeking attention in this way simply to justify your worthless existence to yourself. Perhaps you should consider a career as an organ donor.

I feel better now :-)

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Jack Campin
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:18 PM

: Perhaps you should consider a career as an organ donor.

God. Think of the risks in that...

Gary Gilmore's Eyes

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 03:25 PM

Would that be a Pipe Organ, a Harmonium or what? As long as it is a good English Organ I guess it wouldn't matter.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:11 PM

Well I was going to say sperm donor... and then I thought about it...

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:14 PM

Where's Spaw when you need him?

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 04:37 PM

Sorry folks, I get twitchy around poppy time.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: catspaw49
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:08 PM

If Wavyblowboy thinks that his is a fine example of an English organ, every Englishman for miles around will drop by to beat his ass. Personally I dunno' what kind of organ he has but I have heard it desribed as a half eaten cocktail wiener flanked by two dessicated peanuts. I'm sure its never been played in church................

When Wavyass was in the hospital, the nurse was filling out the proper forms and asked if he wanted to be an organ donor. Then she caught sight of his tiny tool and said, "Oh, I'm sorry. I see you've already donated." Just a matter of genetics though. David inherited his penis size from his mother.

Spaw

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Smokey
Date: 30 Oct 08 - 10:35 PM

Talent courtesy of the yak, although that might be seen as yakist by some.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:26 AM

Some more multiculturalism.
Yuval Banai (it's a lrage family) playing an accoustic ballad "In Elinor's Yard".
One of the foremost Israeli rockers, he moved to the countryside and just released an album of acoustic ballads inspired by the new environment.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=btBXgrslsb8&feature=related

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:33 AM

How could I forget this one:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlcvVC9P39o&feature=related
This is an upbeat tune, rockabilly-ish, with some country fiddle thrown in. Gasp, shock, horrors, look at all the people who aren't practising their Own Good Ersatz Culture, but having fun.

Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument?
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 31 Oct 08 - 05:38 AM

Sorry,

*1200*