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England's National Musical-Instrument?
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 16 Nov 08 - 06:54 PM Wanted: Employer with good sense of humour, N.E. area. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST Date: 17 Nov 08 - 11:43 AM Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: s&r Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:15 PM Guest - we should introduce you to WAV. He spouts similar drivel Stu |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 08 - 12:54 PM I presume that GUEST just above is David still in his pajamas. ". . . what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane. . . ." David, this is a common fallacy of people who really haven't thought the matter through. If you figure only the hour or two that you see them on stage, it would appear that the thousands of dollars that some musicians get is way out of line. But—if you take what they receive for their time on stage, then deduct the amount of money they paid for lessons early on and the tuition they paid to a university music schools or to music conservatories, then divide it by the number of hours, weeks, and years of concentrated practice they had to put in to learn to do what you saw them do on stage, then you get a better idea of what their "hourly wage" really is! They paid one helluva lot of money and put in a helluva lot of hours in practice to be able to earn the fees they charge for their performances. Don't forget to factor in the immediate expenses of going on a concert tour, such as travel, hotels, taxis to and from the venue, and a whole host of other costs. While attending the Cornish School of the Arts (a conservatory) some decades back, one of the most eye-opening courses I took was "the Business Side of a Career in Music." That was quite a reality sandwich!! And this has nothing to do with capitalism. It has to do with just compensation for the amount of hard work the musician had to put in to get where he or she is. But then, I don't think you are fully acquainted with what that really entails. Read, listen, and learn, David. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: catspaw49 Date: 17 Nov 08 - 01:18 PM Wavyfunkywhiteboyracist..............I could care less about capitalism and fair is a place to go see the produce and tractors and quilts ant watch the horse pu;; and sulky racing. It has nothing to do with competition. Anyone who is truly competitive doesn't want a safety net. Once again you speak without knowledge or even informed opinion. Yo're truly a dick............... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 17 Nov 08 - 02:40 PM Don - you did put some words in my mouth in your second-last post, but some of the issues you raised are also raised during anthropology subjects. Frankly, I don't know if the Native American/Amerindian music on my Top Friends is secular or sacred - but they've decided to present it for others on myspace, and I've done my bit (and I genuinely like their sounds). "Within the broader music industry, and beyond, what some get for their hour's work, compared with others, is ridiculous and inhumane; hence, many relatively competent musicians within the folk-scene are really struggling to make ends meet; so, if we like fair competition, we don't like capitalism. A better way, as I've suggested in verse, is to accept that humans are competitive, and have strong regulations (partly via nationalisation) to make that competition as fair as possible – whilst also providing "safety-net" support." No idea who the Guest who took the liberty of posting this is, but it's a quote of mine (probably copy/pasted) from here. And, to Don, I still stand by it - but not in "pajamas", which I do not own! |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 17 Nov 08 - 03:05 PM David, just exactly what words did I put in your mouth in my second to last post? I can't see where I quoted you anywhere in that post, with the possible exception of your suggesting that Americans should do "Amerindian drumming and chanting," and I think I can find a number of instance where you said exactly that. Please elucidate. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: The Sandman Date: 17 Nov 08 - 03:48 PM I cant find the thread about WAV and Jane Kingston and WWW.SESSION .ORG what was it all about. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Jack Campin Date: 17 Nov 08 - 04:17 PM As I said it was www.thesession.org, and I can't see it there any more. I guess they deleted it. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 17 Nov 08 - 05:52 PM WaV, would you please define what you mean by 'fair competition' as applied to folk music, or indeed music in general? What measures would you propose to alleviate the 'unfair competition' which you seem to imply? "I still stand by it - but not in "pajamas", which I do not own! " That's just too much information.. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: s&r Date: 17 Nov 08 - 06:03 PM Before he explains that the UK common spelling is pyjamas I'll do it for him. Unless... He couldn't.... Not in the NE in our own good English winter. Stu |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 17 Nov 08 - 07:14 PM Who d'you think pays his heating bill? |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Jack Campin Date: 17 Nov 08 - 07:27 PM "Pyjama" is a Persian word that came into English via Urdu and describes an article of clothing which is also of Persian origin. The first person recorded in English as wearing pyjamas was Tippoo Sultan in 1800. So obviously WAV can't wear them. "Depends" is of Latin origin so that's out too. The obvious article of nightwear with a purely Anglo-Saxon name is "straitjacket". |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 17 Nov 08 - 09:28 PM Anglo-Saxons? Foreign capitalist/economic immigrants the lot of 'em. Came over 'ere and corrupted our Own Good Culture, they did. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: s&r Date: 18 Nov 08 - 02:50 AM Woad is part of our own good culture, which was pushed into Wales. We should reclaim it as ours FROM NOW ON. Trouble is it stains the sheets.. Atu |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Ed Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:47 AM But according to here; "Woad is native to the steppe and desert zones of the Caucasus, Central Asia to eastern Siberia and Western Asia" so it is part of their good culture. (I do love the world being multicultural). FROM NOW ON we should use this dye from own OWN good culture. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: SPB-Cooperator Date: 18 Nov 08 - 10:06 AM Re: fees And also the performer is not doing other paid work for the other six hours of the day, so that would really be a daily rate so divide by seven for the hourly rate. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,MiZZ iNDiE Date: 18 Nov 08 - 12:57 PM YOU NEED MORE iNFORMATiON ON THiS PAGE By WHAT EVER TiME BUT MORE iNFORMATiON NEEDS TO BE PUT ON THiS PAGE ASAP |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 18 Nov 08 - 01:28 PM Apparently, Mizz, at one time in olde England, each county had its own type of bagpipe. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 18 Nov 08 - 01:40 PM WAV: Apparently, Mizz, at one time in olde England, each county had its own type of bagpipe. Not proved, David - and a very controversial idea. Various people have tried to construct what they consider to be regional versions of the small pipes - but there's very little evidence to support the theories. And please don't use the word "olde" for old - it's a meaningless variant on the spelling. Like using "ye" - which was purely an abbreviation for "the". "Ye olde tea shoppe" merely means "The old tea shop" - crap, pseudo-medieval imaginings of spelling. See what I mean about being pulled up on Mudcat when you talk crap? Heed the advice! |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:08 PM "Apparently, Mizz, at one time in olde England, each county had its own type of bagpipe. " WaV, that's an obvious attempt at red-herringsmanship if ever I saw one.. answerind the 'smap' and ignoring the awkward questions. Don't rise to it folks, he already knows it's bollocks. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:10 PM Good grief - I meant answering the 'spam'.. sorry. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Phil Edwards Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:32 PM Whan that ye Catfysshe first did swymme In ENGLAND's own good Mudd Some found its syngynge dulle and grymme But others thoghte it good. Yet some seyde, Catfysshe cannot synge! No Fysshe makes such a sounde! 'Twould be a most outlandysshe thynge And foreign, Ile be bounde. But you may here that warblynge yette Whan nyghtes grow darke and stille Ye Mudcatte, syngynge, for a Bette: Hay dilly, dilly dillye... Noe Moral has thys woeful Verse, Freindes, Brothers, Mothers, Grannies: But thynke yowe, it could bee much worse - At leaste yt rhymes and scannes. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 18 Nov 08 - 07:40 PM Blymie, ande I thochte mie fpellynge waf badde. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Dave Hanson Date: 19 Nov 08 - 04:43 AM Meezus jyste all crucking fighty, it all gone unintelligable in here. eric |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 19 Nov 08 - 07:00 PM Verily and forsoothe, Gudde Eric, thou hast to speake in ye Olde Tonnge, lest thou shouldst offende ye keepers of Ye Gudde Englische Customf who wouldst banische thee fromme ye lande at ye droppe of a hatte. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Paul Burke Date: 20 Nov 08 - 03:07 AM Apparently, Mizz, at one time in olde England, each county had its own type of bagpipe. Back in ye Dayes of Merrie Olde Englande every town- every village- every street- had its own kind of bagpipe, and its own tradition. Mind you, bagpipes were imported, an alien tradition probably from Scotland (or Alba). The native instrument before the Norman Yoke was of course the Anglo-Saxophone, with a different note for blow and suck. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Dave Hanson Date: 20 Nov 08 - 03:13 AM No, the Irish gave Scotland the bagpipes, the Scots still haven't got the joke. eric |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:04 AM Staying with "Merrie Olde Englande" (PB), Shakespeare, in "Measure for Measure," does have the recorder referred to as a "little organ" and, if you so wish, both may be heard, along with a mention of the "merry organ" in my Christmas recording of "The Holly and the Ivy", which will be on myspace for about 6 weeks. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: WalkaboutsVerse Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:19 AM In "Hamlet" sorry. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Woody Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:21 AM From: eric the red No, the Irish gave Scotland the bagpipes, the Scots still haven't got the joke But then didn't the Scots come from Ireland, so the Irish gave the Bagpipes to the Irish who still haven't got the joke????? Oh dear - this is all so confusing! As the Irish were being so generous, no doubt they stopped off in each English county as well, making slight changes before introducing the locals to their instrument (!?!?!?!) - possibly an attempt to befuddle the neighbours while they were being economic migrants coming over here to dig medieval canals? From: WalkaboutsVerse Staying with "Merrie Olde Englande" (PB), Shakespeare, in "Measure for Measure," does have the recorder referred to as a "little organ" and, if you so wish, both may be heard, along with a mention of the "merry organ" in my Christmas recording of "The Holly and the Ivy", WAV we're well ahead of you here. We've already worked out the size of your organ and that you spend a disproportionate amount of time playing with it ;-) |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,baz parkes Date: 20 Nov 08 - 04:23 AM I don't know why I'm bothering, but.... yes he does, but it's a mucky joke aimed at poor deluded Ophelia...and talking about poor and deluded.... And yes, he makes another reference when he talks to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern about how playing a pipe (Note!) is "as easy as lying"...strange how apt some accidental references are Baz |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: KEVINOAF Date: 20 Nov 08 - 05:12 AM englands national musical nstrument--- |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: KEVINOAF Date: 20 Nov 08 - 05:14 AM the arse-trumpet |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Ralphie Date: 20 Nov 08 - 05:23 AM With apologies to Spike Milligan I shoot the Hippopotamus with bullets made of platinum Because If I used Leaden ones, his hide is sure to flatten 'em. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 20 Nov 08 - 05:49 AM "yes he does, but it's a mucky joke aimed at poor deluded Ophelia..." I don't think WAV understands country matters... |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Surreysinger Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:06 AM Kevinoaf ... the prime exponent of the fine instrument you mention was Le Petomane ... but wasn't he French ? I note that WAV has now put up some Christmas recordings ... I think I shall decline the invitation to pop along and listen.... |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:07 AM "I just listened to "Down in Yon Forest" on WAVs myspace page. It is truly vile. Quite possibly the worst rendition of a traditional song that I have ever heard." Followed closely by The Holly and the Ivy. David, can you not hear that in Down In Yon Forest you're not even singing in the same key you're playing in? Your bizarre, forced vowel intonation of "coovered" doesn't make you sound any less Australian, by the way. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Surreysinger Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:13 AM Further to my last posting, herewith a Leonard Rossiter tribute And there's only a single line of melody! |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: s&r Date: 20 Nov 08 - 11:07 AM WAV is the 'Holly and the Ivy' in your respectful voice or your folk voice? Stu |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Woody Date: 20 Nov 08 - 11:34 AM From: Ruth Archer "I just listened to "Down in Yon Forest" on WAVs myspace page. It is truly vile. Quite possibly the worst rendition of a traditional song that I have ever heard." Followed closely by The Holly and the Ivy. David, can you not hear that in Down In Yon Forest you're not even singing in the same key you're playing in? Your bizarre, forced vowel intonation of "coovered" doesn't make you sound any less Australian, by the way. I just popped onto the site to listen to his outpourings. I'll give him credit, it's the best laugh I've had in a long time. Is it possible he's actually got worse? Out of key, out of tune and timing all wrong - were you drunk when you recorded them WAV? My 6 year-old said about 'Oh come all ye faithful' - "Daddy that's awful. Can you turn it off please, I'm trying to play!" - out of the mouths of babes? Remember this is the guy who presumes to tell Eliza FC how she should perform. I also had a look at his green/godly gardening post - apparently we're not allowed to grow non-native plants either, so it's Dandelions and Fat Hen for tea again. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:12 PM Poulet Dodu Aux Dents de Lion? That's in Traité De La Cuisine Familiale. Don't think the WAV régime tolerates such Gallic influence. I was eating my breakfast when I put on WAV's Xmas Toons. What I cannot fathom is how, if he plays through the tune (sort of) on a plastic whatever it is, he can then start singing a verse in a totally unrelated key. Or why. But I was quite incapable of eating any more. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Will Fly Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:19 PM Is the French for dandelion "pissenlit" - because it's supposed to make you wee the bed? |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Smokey Date: 20 Nov 08 - 01:20 PM "What I cannot fathom is how, if he plays through the tune (sort of) on a plastic whatever it is, he can then start singing a verse in a totally unrelated key." It's a rare skill, normally requiring years of rigorous training. In his case a natural gift. Most of us couldn't hope to attain that level of musicality; we can but gaze in wonderment and humbly bow to His musical superiority, boundless knowledge and indisputable wisdom. If them Watersons would only take a leaf out of WaV's book, they could be quite well-known by now. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Stu Date: 20 Nov 08 - 01:37 PM I've just listened to WAV's latest recordings. Brilliant. Keep it up. |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Ruth Archer Date: 20 Nov 08 - 02:06 PM When I hummed the tunes in the key that WAV was actually playing, he was almost singing harmony. Almost. For shame, Wavey! You are a disgrace to singers of Top Line Melody everywhere! |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 20 Nov 08 - 02:27 PM Ruth, I don't think David is quite up to grasping the subtle—and sometimes not so subtle—puns that Shakespeare occasionally slips into his plays. . . . David is singing about a quarter-tone flat throughout "The Holly and the Ivy," with occasional temporary explorations of other nearby keys. Some years ago, my wife Barbara and a young woman named Deborah Reed sang "Down in Yon Forest" as a duet in a Christmas Eve service at a local church, with me providing a lute-like accompaniment on the classic guitar. Beautiful and haunting, with the candle-light, and those two voices blending, lofting, and reverberating softly through the church. After listening just now to David's rendition (emphasis on the "rend"), I'm trying desperately to recapture the memory of the sound of Barbara's and Deborah's voices on that occasion. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: s&r Date: 20 Nov 08 - 02:35 PM Don - somehow you've just given me the best laugh I've had for ages. I can see you with a look of haunted desparation trying to expunge one and recall the other. Just a picture in my head.. Stu |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: Don Firth Date: 20 Nov 08 - 03:10 PM This is kinda gamey (sorry), but some years ago I thought I was developing hearing problems and found out that it was no big deal, just impacted ear wax. My quack had me get a little kit at the local pharmacy (chemist?). Drops in the ears, wait for a bit, then hose out the ears with a little bulb syringe. Worked, no problem. I think I still have that little bulb syringe somewhere in a drawer in the bathroom. . . . Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: England's National Musical-Instrument? From: GUEST,Ed Date: 20 Nov 08 - 03:14 PM Bugger me! 1600 |
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