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Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?

The Villan 16 Apr 08 - 10:38 AM
Lowden Jameswright 16 Apr 08 - 10:55 AM
The Villan 16 Apr 08 - 11:24 AM
the lemonade lady 16 Apr 08 - 12:53 PM
The Villan 16 Apr 08 - 01:35 PM
Folkiedave 16 Apr 08 - 02:47 PM
Banjiman 16 Apr 08 - 03:04 PM
The Villan 16 Apr 08 - 03:53 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 16 Apr 08 - 04:02 PM
John MacKenzie 16 Apr 08 - 04:03 PM
The Villan 16 Apr 08 - 04:16 PM
GUEST,doc.tom 16 Apr 08 - 04:23 PM
the lemonade lady 16 Apr 08 - 04:29 PM
John MacKenzie 16 Apr 08 - 04:35 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 16 Apr 08 - 04:38 PM
The Villan 16 Apr 08 - 04:53 PM
Mr Red 16 Apr 08 - 06:10 PM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice 16 Apr 08 - 06:14 PM
Herga Kitty 16 Apr 08 - 06:23 PM
GUEST, Richard Bridge 16 Apr 08 - 06:28 PM
Mr Red 17 Apr 08 - 02:51 AM
The Villan 17 Apr 08 - 03:06 AM
GUEST,Alan Surtees 17 Apr 08 - 04:45 AM
matt milton 17 Apr 08 - 05:44 AM
Mr Red 17 Apr 08 - 08:32 AM
the lemonade lady 17 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM
Ruth Archer 17 Apr 08 - 08:49 AM
The Villan 17 Apr 08 - 08:58 AM
greg stephens 17 Apr 08 - 09:00 AM
The Villan 17 Apr 08 - 09:10 AM
The Villan 17 Apr 08 - 09:14 AM
John MacKenzie 17 Apr 08 - 09:23 AM
nutty 17 Apr 08 - 09:28 AM
The Villan 17 Apr 08 - 09:31 AM
Folkiedave 17 Apr 08 - 09:36 AM
Banjiman 17 Apr 08 - 09:39 AM
nutty 17 Apr 08 - 10:08 AM
Banjiman 17 Apr 08 - 10:15 AM
GUEST,John from Kemsing 17 Apr 08 - 11:15 AM
sapper82 17 Apr 08 - 12:00 PM
Georgiansilver 17 Apr 08 - 05:02 PM
The Villan 17 Apr 08 - 05:06 PM
John MacKenzie 17 Apr 08 - 05:10 PM
The Villan 17 Apr 08 - 05:13 PM
Georgiansilver 17 Apr 08 - 05:28 PM
the lemonade lady 17 Apr 08 - 06:11 PM
Mrs.Duck 18 Apr 08 - 12:13 PM
the lemonade lady 18 Apr 08 - 12:23 PM
Folkiedave 18 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM
Mrs.Duck 18 Apr 08 - 03:37 PM
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Subject: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 10:38 AM

Just been reading this article http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7348970.stm and wondered how accurate it is and will it seriously affect the Folk festivals.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 10:55 AM

There'll be no problem - all those pubs that hike up their prices to take advantage of festival goers will no doubt pass the extra profits back to the festival organisers in fine sponsorship spirit.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 11:24 AM

Indeed LJ :-)


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 12:53 PM

It may have something to do with commercialism and greed on the organisers part.

I know that as a trader the pitch fees just go up and up. Sidmouth pitch fees in the old days got bigger and bigger, while the pitch size got smaller. Some festivals are now asking for tenders. I can't be bothered with those.

Glastonbury is a nightmare for a trader. You have to arrive a week before it starts, buy only what they supply using their wholesalers only. Even the paper cups have to be bought from them with their logos printed on them. As a trader you are not allowed to leave the site until everyone else has gone. Then the security is frightening. Hiding money and being vigilant through the night.

ok rant over.

sal


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 01:35 PM

Sal
Thats not good at all.
Les


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 02:47 PM

Sounds like a nightmare to me too.

I think that well-run, well-marketed festivals with a decent line-up will still be succesful.

Good luck to Pickering Folk Festival, which launched yesterday. It has some great headliners and could be a great success.

Well-run festivals that know their market seem to go from strength to strength.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Banjiman
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:04 PM

Pickering Festival looks like some SERIOUS competition for Saltburn which is the same weekend and only a few miles away........can they both survive?

Paul


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 03:53 PM

Why would people put a festival on the same weekend and only a few miles from each other.

Doesn't make snese to me.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:02 PM

apparently the question about two festivals close to gether, can they survive, was sort of answered in the previous post by folkiedave.....

well run festivals that know their market seem to go from strength to strength


and will festivals survive this year 2008?...Of course they will, I mean what sort of question is that? Someone hitting the panic button again....!

Charlotte R


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:03 PM

Soon won't be able to afford to go to festivals, now the price of fuel is so scary.

G


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:16 PM

>>Someone hitting the panic button again....!
<<

The news


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:23 PM

It's a valid and an interesting question. Arguably, the folk clubs didn't survive the price hike of fuel in the 1970s - it's just that the death has been slow and lingering. It you don't believe it, check the statistics!

Tom


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:29 PM

time to start unplugged DIY type fests in yr back garden, me thinks.

sal


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:35 PM

I have given up on Sidmouth this year, and probably won't ever go again. The fuel for the round trip would cost me £100 more than last year. As a retired person, with a weekly income of not much more than that, I can't entertain the cost.

G


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:38 PM

'time to start unplugged DIY type fests in yr back garden, me thinks.'

wasn't that how Cropredy started, as a sort of DIY thing?

Charlotte R


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 04:53 PM

I don't think you are on your own John.
I think Sal has a sort of point, in as much that with the way the economy is going, people may start going locally rather than travelling large distances.
Within the last year I was paying about £48 for a full tank of petrol and the other day, it cost me £62.
Our weekly shopping bill has gone up by about 20% over the last few months.
Water, Gas, Electricity, council tax have all shot up.

We booked to go to Bruge this year for 2 weeks and our hire for the house in Bruges was 1000 Euros which at the time was equivalent to about £700. It is now equivalent to about £800 due to the exchange rate.

Something has to give.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:10 PM

I personally think it will be a holding station this year. People will have committed in their minds or financially. Next year is too far away to decide. And by next year it may well be a case of the percentages. The numbers will be down. People will not travel as far or as often if the Slow Down, Credit Crunch (Oh! OK recession) bites. And they sure as hell ain't gonna risk mud or flood on top of that. The Glastonbury rejects (more tickets allocated to the yoof) may be used to mud but not everyone. Ditto dust if it is dry.

Big festivals will feel it as the punter looks closely at what is on offer. Joy vowed this year she wasn't at all interested in a festival that cost £16 per indifferent (for multiple reasons) ceilidh and a two hour drive each way when she could be earning, gardening in high season. So she decided to do Sidmouth for a week, in her high season! You do the comparisons but greed is not that far from the centre of her perceptions, and that does put off punters.

But then there is Folk and there is entertainment. Sidmouth errs on the side of Folk. Damn it - it is Folk.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:14 PM

'It's a valid and an interesting question.'

the festivals will either survive or they will not.

Charlotte R


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:23 PM


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Apr 08 - 06:28 PM

My gut feeling is that electric sit and listen festivals may suffer, but participative ones may thrive. At least I hope so.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 02:51 AM

Richard - you are forgetting the lottery money they got last year - how much this year? It all helps to keep larger festivals afloat - until the river does it for you. Smaller festivals just can't spend the time forming a constitution, filling-in forms, knowing what to say, how to make the finances look to be in need of support, and and and........ that takes a full-time employee of the Limited Company.

Now tell me - how many decibels does a grant of £8500+ buy?
More than enough to impair the enjoyment of the official participation session that would have been impossible if had not upped-sticks and moved. It still impinged. And don't get me going on the the earplugs and terpsichore events.

Modest festivals? - try Upton-u-Severn. The year it was a DIY event was, IMNSHO, one of the best and I have done them all (so far)


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 03:06 AM

Did you go to The Gate to Southwell Folk Festival then Mr Red?


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,Alan Surtees
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 04:45 AM

Good to see you still have a hard on for Shrewsbury Cresby.

No problems with the river in Upton then.

And don't get me started on attention seeking plonkers.

Love and Best Wishes

Alan


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: matt milton
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:44 AM

What's interesting about that article is that it's focus was the BIG festivals. Even the festivals it considered 'small' were still pretty damn big – in terms of audience numbers – compared to folk festivals.

I think it's the festivals that put on big-name acts that are threatened more than niche festivals. I've enjoyed going to the Green Man festival over the last couple of years, but even that's starting to get a bit too big for itself. I like the Tapestry festival very much: I've hardly heard of any of the acts they put on, but I trust the music taste of the organizers. And you get three times the amount of space as the big festivals. And smaller festivals often have showers and decent toilets too. Me, I like the experience of going to a festival and checking out loads of different acts: I don't go just to sing along to all the hits by some big name act.

That said, I may well totally contradict everything I just said as I'm considering buying a ticket to the Big Chill festival purely to go and see Leonard Cohen, as tickets for the UK gigs on the Leonard Cohen tour are basically almost the same price!


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:32 AM

Upton may very well flood, it is the same river as Shrewsbury. The unspecified flood meadow has clearly become a sensitive target for the cruder posters on this forum. If you can't gainsay the message - insult the messenger. By and large festival campsites are on available land and that can often be near rivers - because they can't sensibly build on it - normally - E&OE.

And the season of flooding can no longer be considered winter months, the current prognosis is that 2008 will be safe. Mr Fish says so.

Regardles of what a poster says - make your own mind up - re-interpret, and blame them for saying what you have ascribed to them. That is quite a tradition - one would say folklore almost, but it is normally seen in younger persons. Though you could re-interpret "young" as meaning "immature" and I won't be offended even if it is not what I posted.

And no I wasn't meaning the Southwell Festival. I did happen on a grants list when trying to find the post code of the Kempsey Village Hall and on the same line in the adjacent column was a figure that lept off the page.
How much did Southwell get - was it £15,000? Which year? FWIW Upton FF is a Limited Company - too. It protects the organisers in case of disaster.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:41 AM

Ah the big Chill...that's at Eastnor Castle isn't it? They won't let me trade there because you have to be part of a 'group' of people who have a deal with the castle. Many times I have tried to get in, actually once I was outside the gates coming back from somewhere while they had a children's festival going on, and they still said I couldn't get in. I later found out that all the kids could get to drink was warm coke, nasty stuff or expensive 'juices' at the visitor's cafe. Hmmmm...

Catering is a cut throat buisness, you know!!!!

sal


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:49 AM

well, the financial panic has been on since before Christmas, but the first three festivals I've been to this year have been well attended - this despite the fact that indoor festivals can be more expensive to attend because of the additional accomodation costs. If this is meaning more people attending festivals locally, it doesn't seem to have affected the numbers. At Loughborough we increased capacity, and had a substantial increase on numbers compared to last year.

BTW, we got ACE funding, but it was for our education programme. I believe that's what Southwell got theirs for, too.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 08:58 AM

Southwell did a lot on the education side last year. very commendable.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:00 AM

I'd put my money on festivals doing well this year(and next), if they've got a reasonable idea of who they want to come, and good guests or ambience or some other selling point. The right-on festival going classes are (a) going to be thinking about carbon footprints and flying and( b) will be keeping a wary eye on the economic climate over the coming months. That argues for less foreign holidays and more looking about for fun at home.
My tip for a great little safe enjoyable festival in a stunning location:
Croissant Neuf Summer Party
(that should have been a link don't know why it didn't work. If I put it in an email it changes colour. Funny things these computers)

It is a link now ;)


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:10 AM

Did you mean this one Greg?

Croissant Neuf Summer Party


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:14 AM

Ah, now why would that festival interest you Greg LOL


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:23 AM

He likes buttery pastries.

G


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: nutty
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:28 AM

Correction re the proximity of Pickering to Saltburn.(this thread 16th April 3.04pm)

The two towns are at least 40 miles from each other on either side of the North Yorks Moor,

It's sad that Pickering chose to put their festival on the same weekend as Saltburn but hopefully each will be able to attract a different crowd.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:31 AM

Well I know he has a particular liking to Boats and Bands John :-)


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:36 AM

I was asked ages ago if I would like to have a stall selling previously cherished books about folk music at Pickering.

That was ages ago. I worry that they have only just got around to launching things.

Dave


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Banjiman
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 09:39 AM

Thanks Nutty, yes about 40 miles (maybe an hour?) .......that is relatively few given the size of the country and the number of summer weekends to choose from.

The result is the same, they are in danger of cannibalising each other audience.

Attract a different crowd? I'd happily go to either, what does that say?

Paul


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: nutty
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:08 AM

Surely Paul ... it's Pickering that is doing the cannibalising.

Saltburn is the established festival.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Banjiman
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 10:15 AM

Nutty,

"Surely Paul ... it's Pickering that is doing the cannibalising.

Saltburn is the established festival."

A very fair point. I wouldn't seek to argue with that.

Paul


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 11:15 AM

You`d best be a little wary of waxing enthusiastic and highlighting the festivals we are fortunate to have run for us here. You can bet your bottom dollar that someone out there will plan bigger tax or licencing regime if that person gets a sniff of increased turnover!


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: sapper82
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 12:00 PM

Another year like last year we will almost certianly loose a lot of festivals.
Despite the supurb weather at the Saltburn weekend the camp site was less than half full;
The following weekend the appalling weather destroyed Burntwood.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:02 PM

The committee have made a determined decision that Blitherscrum FF will not close down under any circumcisions! Funds will be made available by the local Womens Institute and Jocelyn Bradleys house of ill repute to keep the FF going no matter what.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:06 PM

GS
Get back to the home, they are looking for you. You have strayed onto the real world thread. :-)


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:10 PM

Mudcat is not the real world is it?


G


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: The Villan
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:13 PM

Well it is to GS, John :-)


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:28 PM

LOL


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:11 PM

See, spending too much time infront of the pc and not down the local making music and keeping it open!

Sorry slight thread creep
...

Sal


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:13 PM

We are finding it increasingly difficult to afford to attend festivals. Many are charging more for camping than commercial sites with better facilities. We may well end up just doing fairly local ones, fringe only as day trippers. Can't afford to support the local pubs either lol


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:23 PM

Mrs Duck: this is exactly what i was saying 7 years ago when I organised Bishop's Castle Folk Weekend. It's not happening now cos the locals weren't interested.

Sal


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM

Many are charging more for camping than commercial sites with better facilities.

Jane where are these places? They need to be named.

And IMHO the first rule of running a festival is get the locals on your side.


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Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 03:37 PM

Sadly Dave it is most of them. We use a lot of commercial sites that have fairly basic but adequate facilities toilets, showers etc. which charge around £10 for a caravan and its occupants. If we camp at a festival we are often asked for £6 per person.


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