Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 09 Nov 08 - 06:02 PM

-+-+Singaround/session weekend Party-+-+

16th January 2009

Anyone interested in coming to a knees up after Christmas

The Mortimers Cross pub

North Herefordshire.



here

TAKE NO NOTICE OF TARIFFS, THEY ARE OUT OF DATE.



It's a hotel and they are willing to have guests for a night or two. We could party all weekend. They also have a very big carpark for camper vans. Think about it and let me know.



This pub is now open and needs support.


I've ok'd it with the Land Lord of The Mortimers Cross Inn. He's keen for an swarm of singers, and a multitude of musicians so what are we waiting for? The 16th of January it is.


He's ok about caravans and camper vans too for a small fee.


My next problem is I definitely need to know how many are coming so that he can order some decent ale. Last thing I want for him is loads barrels and no people to drink it.


Please, please can you RSVP ASAP

Sal

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,captain sensible
Date: 07 Nov 08 - 11:10 AM

Sounds like FOLK will make a comeback.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 07 May 08 - 07:41 PM

Will they survive? Nope! Wheaton Aston is having it's last fling in a week or so. Burntwood is dead. Festival on the Edge (FATE) has met it's fate also and is finishing this year. Need I go on... I'm sure others can add to this list.

Numbers are down, ticket sales aren't what was expected. It's the extorionate price of fuel, the high price of festival tickets and beer that will kill them off. It's becoming the time for everyone to have unplugged festival parties in local village halls and gardens.

Sal

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Rasener
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 12:49 AM

Well one of the first to fall is Cleethorpes Folk Festival

Who's next?

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 02:50 PM

Jolly good, but you'll have to pay more for your lemonade this year at Warwick. I'm not gonna be there. I'm having that wkend off this year. I'm taking my boy on holiday after dropping the trailer off in Devon ready for Sidmouth.

My lemonade is staying at £1 per cup as it has been since I started trading 11 years ago.

Sal

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 02:41 PM

Thats the stuff Sandra. and by paying my entrance to the field I will be paying what is asked of me too!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 22 Apr 08 - 03:54 AM

It's been confirmed - the sun is going to shine on Warwick this year!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Pistachio
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:49 PM

We all have our budget to bear ... I understand where Nutty is coming from - camper vans come in all sizes and if a 6 berth comes along..... (I'll be green with envy)..... but even the organisers need to budget and it'll be so much easier for them to have the set prices they've planned.

It's an interesting line up and IMHO worth the money ... but I can't go so that's the end of that!.

Enjoy whatever festivals you do get to! I'll be packing my wellies for Saddleworth and Warwick!
Have Fun,
Hazel.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 03:14 PM

Mrs Duck

is that the very music that other festival goers have paid for?

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 03:11 PM

Like the idea of a day ticket for the field events. Very cheap and would allow you to watch morris displays and soak up the atmosphere. May even be able to hear the music from outside the marquees.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 07:33 AM

I will be in Bruges

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 07:22 AM

Pickering looks great! Unfortunately, as it's the weekend immediately after Sidmouth, I probably won't be there as it's a bit of a shlep!

Good luck to all concerned.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,spiderpig
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 07:12 AM

I agree The Villan and, like I said, a bargain in my view. I hear they're looking for stewards too! :-) Now that is a good way of getting to see all that and not having to dip into the old sky rocket!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Rasener
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 06:54 AM

http://www.pickeringfolkfestival.com

Wow thats some line up.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: spiderpig
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 05:55 AM

Oh I give up! :-)

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: spiderpig
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 05:53 AM

Whoops - here's the link www.pickeringfolkfestival.com

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,spiderpig
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 05:46 AM

.........and for anyone that's interested go to www.pickeringfolkfestival.com

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,spiderpig
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:55 AM

Well nutty, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm all for community involvement too. How do you know they haven't planned any? There's still nearly 4 months to go. For what it's worth, my opinion of a quality festival has to be Towersey. Again, great value for money and always a cracking line-up.

And theleveller, I agree with your comments. If it's value for money you want then I think Pickering is the place to be. It's a lot cheaper than Cambridge with a line-up that's (in my opinion) just as good. Cambridge appear to have cut down on their performance budget this year. I too say, let's give it a chance. I expect they'll have the usual teething problems. No-one EVER got it right first time. Good luck Pickering!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 04:02 AM

Hey, Nutty, agree with you about Shepley. My problem is the weather. Let's face it, summer doesn't arrive up there until August (if at all). I'm glad we took the caravan as we didn't have to join the 'turn your tent into a kite' demonstrations. I've got to say, an outdoor spring festival oop int' Pennines is definitely a brave move. Hope it goes well this year bit I'm afraid we'll be giving it a miss for a number of reasons.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: nutty
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 03:51 AM

It's pretty obvious that we will never totally agree.

I'm not against greenfield sites but for me there must be community involvement. Warwick FF and the new Shepley Festivals are for me examples of greenfield Festivals at their very best.

I shall not be going to Pickering but I shall look forward to reading feedback from those who do.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 03:44 AM

I've never been to Saltburn Festival (although I love Saltburn itself)so I con't do a comparison with Pickering, but we'll be going to Pickering because it seems fantastic value for money, has a bri8lliant line-up and it's an easy ride up there from Howden. It certainly seems a better bet than Cambridge, which we've been to for the last few years, especially when the price of petrol is taken into consideration, but I'll reserve judgement till afterwards. Why is £30 excessive for a camper? I've just booked at my usual campsite in Rosedale for the Ryedale weekend and they charge £24 a night.

And why all the grousing, anyway? If you don't fancy it, don't go, but don't be a dog in a manger before it's even got off the ground. I have no objection to people making a profit if they provide good value - but I certainly wouldn't be investing my money in a folk festival.

Good luck, Pickering - I hope it's as good as it sounds.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,spiderpig
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 03:07 AM

"Perhaps that's where the problem is?" What problem? "Smelling profit?" "A sad day for Folk Music?" I'm sorry nutty but I have to disagree. Profit can only be healthy - how many clubs and festivals have you seen go under in your 40 years? 99% of the time they go under for one reason - NO PROFIT! In fact - A LOSS! There's no gurantees that Pickering will make a profit anyway. They'll be risking their finances like anyone else. This is NOT The Mean Fiddler or Harvey Goldsmith. If fans of The Waterboys etc, go along to this festival to see 'their' band and stumble across some of the other excellent acts that they have there, how can that possibly be a bad thing. If they take home a copy of Roger Davies' album or go along to their local folk club the next time that Maire & Chris are playing, how can that possibly be a bad thing?

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: nutty
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 02:13 AM

Perhaps thats where the problem is Spiderpig - what the Event Office is providing is a 'music event' rather than a folk festival in the traditional sense.

Its being held on an out of town greenfield site. £30 camping charge if like me you have a camper van. No consessions for pensioners.

Its obviously based on the Glastonbury model. The big boys seem to be smelling profit and that's a sad day for folk music.

OK ... call me old fashioned but after more than 40 years of involvement in the folk scene I would be very sad to see commercialism kill off the tried and tested.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,spiderpig
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 08:54 PM

As for Pickering "cannibalising Saltburn", how does that work guys? Does Saltburn have a monopoly of festivals in the North Yorkshire area? Oh no, it's not even IN North Yorkshire. Surely it should be Whitby that's feeling cannibalised - much as they were by REDCAR/SALTBURN 25 years ago! And is it Pickering's fault that they've just decided to venture into staging music events? No, that would be ridiculous. So what, if Saltburn's been going for 25 years. Good luck to them and may they continue for 25 more too! Don't be afraid of change - embrace it!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,spiderpig
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 08:35 PM

Nutty, I've been and checked the camping on Pickering's website and it's a tenner for the weekend. Where did you get thirty quid from? Reading the info on their website, it appears the company putting the festival on are The Events Office of Pickering. A quick glimpse at their own website reveals that they're an events company that host many large scale events around the country throughout the summer (none of them music). I say, good on them. If they've got the dosh and are prepared to risk it then where's the harm in that? As for singarounds, sessions and workshops etc, I can't imagine that they cost too much to fund, so where's the value in the 'smaller' festival's season ticket? Personally, I enjoy, savour and relish QUALITY performance. THAT'S why I buy a ticket. I don't care that the only time I see the artist is when they're on stage. THAT'S why I pay my money. So many festivals concentrate on quantity rather than quality. Give me 40 professional acts such as Pickering is providing rather than 120 'events'. I realise that it's each to their own but I'm simply making the point that a season ticket price should be set according to the cost of 'performance' on offer and not the singarounds, sessions and workshops that, quite simply, cost peanuts to stage. As I said, each to their own.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: nutty
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 02:53 PM

Spiderpig - Add another £30 to that for camping at Pickering and you will get a more realistic figure. I certainly will reserve judgement until I see exactly what they are offering in the way of singarounds, sessions and workshops. I have no time for concert only festivals where the only time you see the artists is when they are on stage.

I agree the two festivals are different but then it would appear that the management of the two festivals is as well.
Saltburn (previously Redcar) has been bringing big names to the area for over 25 YEARS whereas it appaers that this is a first venture for the Pickering team (whoever they are).

Why do I get suspicious when no names are given? WHO IS BANKROLLING THIS VENTURE? For a first festival it is rolling out so many big names funding can't be an issue which it is with many smaller festivals.

I would hate to think that this is the way festivals will be in the future.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,Spiderpig
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:31 PM

May I suggest that the new Pickering Festival is completely unlike Saltburn. Pickering's line-up is very adventurous and far more appealing to concert-goers than Saltburn. Each has their own attractions. At 65 quid for a weekend ticket, Pickering represents fantastic value, unlike some of the so-called 'smaller' festivals which charge around 40 quid for a line-up that includes a regular folk club headliner. It hasn't done Cambridge, Sidmouth and Towersey much harm down the years to provide a quality programme at a bargain price. The other point I'd like to make is that competition is healthy. If new festivals don't pop up occasionally the established ones will get complacent. See it as a kick up the backside and not a threat. I know where I'll be heading! - Waterboys, Eddi Reader, Nizlopi, Cara Dillon, Coope Boyes & Simpson, Laqst Night's Fun, Chris Difford, Demon Barbers, Eliza Carthy Band........... need I go on? Good luck to both festivals!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:03 PM

Part of the problem with festival campsites is people who have no idea how to tow. I arrived at Ely last year and was told to expect difficulties getting onto the campsite. I did the basics - took a look on foot, planned my path, backed up and took a run, and went up in as high a gear as possible with no wheelspin whatsoever. Unlike Tenterden the year before when I am told people could see the treetops opposite underneath my van as I assaulted the climb to where I wanted to be.

The bogs at Ely have been horrid, and frankly the showers were better at the old sewage works site. But this is why I van. Own shower, own bog.

I also miss the only food stall I ever really lusted after - the Jamaican curry stall. The curried goat was wonderful - but not seen for a few years.

These, however, are not what will kill the festivals. It's two-fold. First is cost. Second is the change from "festival and we all make music in the bar and in the fields too", to "I've paid me money now entertain me and produce bands I knwo the names of".

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 11:47 AM

The best result FD :-)

So we will have FolkieDave the Bog Standards Officer LOL

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 10:31 AM

I agree with the Villan (Good win today BTW) The bogs at Gate to Southwell Festival were spotless and I am hoping to give them brief - if necessary inspections this year too.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:56 AM

I do The Old songs Festival each year. This is a festival that I am very reluctant to stop doing for a variety of reasons.

Firstly I would miss seeing the folks I have come to regard as friends, Kendall and Jaqui, Alison, George ward, John Roberts, Jeri,... the list is endless.

Secondarily the music is beyond wonderful and most of these performers are so far below commercial radar that this is the only venue I am likely to see and hear them in.

And I continually meet new people who are pleased with my jewelry.

And there is the rub. The cost of silver has tripled in the last three years. Consequently the cost of my jewelry has risen. It will do so again. Last year it cost me $75.00 to drive to Old songs and return to the Syracuse NY area. This year it will cost over $ 100.00.

Other costs are Lodging, we motel it because we like a shower at night. This year the cost of the craft space at the festival went up, but it has always been too low. Food, Gin and Tonics which I seem to be a bit free with so I shouldn't count that. And all these costs go up as the cost of fuel effects the trade and transport of them.

So two expenses that I have no control over will lower my possible profit considerably. Gas and metal. Last year I just broke even.

I have stopped doing shows that are more than $100.00 away from home for the moment. I was set to do a show in Louisville Kentucky this year but the fuel and metal costs would force me to double my current prices.

I think there will be festivals, maybe even more of them, only much more regional in nature. More local talent with one or two head liners.

I'll continue at Old Songs even if I lose a little money because it is still the best show around and we have to support events in the down times or they won't be around for the upturn.

Don

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:49 AM

I too can recommend the facilities at Saddleworth, especially last year in the mudbath!

Coming back from town to the campsite in the pitch black + pouring rain, I couldn't find me tent, the only lights to be seen were in the shower block, so I spent the night on the changing room floor.

Warm, dry, hard & character building, H & C, walk in showers,en-suite facilities, very lavish altogether!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,Don Meixner
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 09:40 AM

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 07:44 AM

Take a lot to beat the excellent clean standards of last years toilets at The Gate To Southwell Folk Festival.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Dick The Box
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 07:01 AM

Agree on the camping facilities often being crowded with poor facilities (Towersey, Big Session have both been bad in the past). I suppose it is down to economics - hiring loos, showers and land once a year is expensive and the cost has to be recouped on the one occasion, whereas permanent sites can recoup their outlay all year, every year.

Even small festivals cost a lot to put on due to H&S and licencing costs. Security, fencing, insurance, licences etc etc. I can understand why festivals take the opportunity to charge traders through the nose but all you end up with is corporate crap because they are the ones who can afford it (but at a cost to the quantity and quality of the food/goods). It pisses me off how little you get for your money at most food stalls. Festival special = not a lot for loads of money. Honourable exceptions are Chez Nous and Leon's! Similarly, the interesting fringe type stalls cannot afford to get in resulting in nothing but endless mass market hippy tat. Surely there must be a way of festivals surviving without having to sell their souls?

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Sooz
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 06:38 AM

I agree with Mrs Duck - festival campsites have very poor facilities compared to even the most basic commercial sites and usually cost more. They are often very crowded as well - Camping and Caravanning Club sites require 6m between units for fire safety reasons and we have hardly ever had this luxury at a festival.
Perhaps we should start a thread comparing the campsites at our favourite festivals. Saddleworth probably gets my vote (although not last year when it was so wet and everyone wanted to be on the running track!)Saltburn festival is great but the camping is terrible - last time we went we parked up on the seafront!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Rasener
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 04:47 PM

I had a Ford Scorpio Estate for about 10 years and it did 110,000 before I flogged it. The engine was great. No trouble at all. I only solf it becuase I couldn't afford the cost of the petrol (3.0 litre engine). Did that car go.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 03:33 PM

Thanks Richard, for years I had an old Mercedes estate which was like that. The one time I buy a newish car (well, 6 years old, which is new to me) the engine busts after 70K miles - bloody Fords!

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST, Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 03:05 PM

Leveller - I strongly recommend an old rear wheel drive Volvo. Many do over 300,000 miles without major work. They are great comfortable tugs and what you spend on their not inconsiderable thirst you save on the bits that don't break. For the time being many parts available from scrap yards too. You can get a good one for under £1,000 - indeed under £500. Because they are so safe they are quite cheap to insure too.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 01:48 PM

I find the fact that there are now so many feestivals locally (N and E Yorkshire)really heartening. Sure, with a limited season, some are going to clash, like Saltburn and Pickering, but I think that's inevitable.

We weren't going to do festivals this year as we were planning a big family holiday to Northern California, but having just got a bill from the gagage for £3K for a new engine in the car, that's out. So we're going to do some local festivals: just booked for Ryedale and, having seen the lineup, we'll most likely be going to Pickering - it's so easy for us, just off the A64 - not far to drag the old caravan and easy on my expensive new car engine. May not go to Beverley this year but will almost certainly be hanging around the fringe. Not sure about Whitby, yet. Looking forward to meeting as many of you as possible.

Will miss Cambridge a bit but not the crowds and the expense - and hanging on the phone for hours.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 01:28 PM

No, the recent festivals we have attended have been £6 per person per night. And the entertainment isn't part of the camping, the ticket price pays for that. Not so very long ago a weekend ticket included camping fees. When you're attending as a family it can add a sizable amount to the cost of a weekend.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 09:08 AM

Of the festivals I have been to camping is invariably good financial value at Festivals. Looked at from the perspective of a weekend of camping the entertainment looks reasonable value. Unless there are specific dis-incentives you have to take a holistic view. But B&B people shouldn't be asked to subsidise campers - sponsorship is there to bring trade to the town.
Day tickets are another matter.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: GUEST,Sandra
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 04:31 AM

Mrs Duck

£10 for a caravan on a commercial site is probably the fee for one night - the camping fee charged at festivals is usually for the entire weekend. Shrewsbury FF charges £12 per person for four nights - I reckon that represents very good value and works out at £3 per night.

Sandra

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 03:37 PM

Sadly Dave it is most of them. We use a lot of commercial sites that have fairly basic but adequate facilities toilets, showers etc. which charge around £10 for a caravan and its occupants. If we camp at a festival we are often asked for £6 per person.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM

Many are charging more for camping than commercial sites with better facilities.

Jane where are these places? They need to be named.

And IMHO the first rule of running a festival is get the locals on your side.

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:23 PM

Mrs Duck: this is exactly what i was saying 7 years ago when I organised Bishop's Castle Folk Weekend. It's not happening now cos the locals weren't interested.

Sal

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 18 Apr 08 - 12:13 PM

We are finding it increasingly difficult to afford to attend festivals. Many are charging more for camping than commercial sites with better facilities. We may well end up just doing fairly local ones, fringe only as day trippers. Can't afford to support the local pubs either lol

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 06:11 PM

See, spending too much time infront of the pc and not down the local making music and keeping it open!

Sorry slight thread creep
...

Sal

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:28 PM

LOL

Subject: RE: Will Festivals survive this year 2008 ?
From: Rasener
Date: 17 Apr 08 - 05:13 PM

Well it is to GS, John :-)