BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes

Subject: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 02:25 PM

My ex-husband and his family are circulating their opinions about the presidential candidates and at this point they agree that Alan Keyes is THE MAN.

I gather that what they like is that he is anti-governmental programs, in favor of paring government way down, making war "when it is necessary", "bringing God back into the classroom", he is a man of prayer, is suspicious of all current candidates...

(All of the statements above is what I glean from their emails to each other. None of it is my own opinion.)

So what do you think?

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Peace
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 02:30 PM

April 17, 2008
Alan Keyes for President

On Tuesday, former Republican presidential candidate Alan Keyes officially announced his split with the Republican Party, at a press conference held in Hazleton, PA.

Saying the Republican Party "has become a dark and confusing place," and "there are clear signs that our leaders no longer have an allegiance to the sovereign people of the United States," Keyes added that he is considering running for president on the Constitution Party ticket in the 2008 general election.

The city of Hazleton made news for taking a firm stand against illegal immigration when it passed the Illegal Immigration Relief Act in 2006.

A life-long Republican, Keyes was a diplomat in the Reagan administration who served as Assistant Secretary of State for International Organizations, Ambassador to the United Nations Economic and Social Council, and staff member of the National Security Council.'

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: GUEST,Mike in DC
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 04:57 PM

He came in at the last minute to run against Obama in Illinois for the Senate two years ago. The original Republican candidate had to drop out because of some messy allegations from his ex-wife. I'm not especially well informed about the right end of the political spectrum, but my impression is that he's something of a loose cannon.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 05:54 PM

I have problems with him. Funny, but the bit about the Republican Party being a "dark and confusing place", but it so in part because of Keyes kind of thinking.

I agree with much of what he SAYS -- and he can be a very dynamic speaker (I've seen him in person). But he is to "Conservatism" what Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton are to "Liberalism" -- narrow-issued opportunists out to grab an easy audience (and their cash). Add a dash of Ralph Nader (doesn't know when to stay out of a race) and you get the picture (compared to people you might find more familiar)

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 05:56 PM

Thanks, John. This is the kind of insight I am seeking.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 05:56 PM

weird.....I thought I edited that first paragraph. I must have a sticking key or a stick in my eye.

I have problems with him. Funny, but the bit about the Republican Party being a "dark and confusing place", sure is true, but it is so in part because of Keyes' kind of thinking.

I agree with much of what he SAYS -- and he can be a very dynamic speaker (I've seen him in person). But he is to "Conservatism" what Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton are to "Liberalism" -- narrow-issued opportunists out to grab an easy audience (and their cash). Add a dash of Ralph Nader (doesn't know when to stay out of a race) and you get the picture (compared to people you might find more familiar)

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:23 PM

If you remember, Keys was a candidate 8 years ago, and made some really weird remarks...I can't remember details, but I do remember sitting with my mouth open, saying "Hunnnh?" He campaigned in a leather jacket and sounded like some reactionary idiot..(at least, to me)

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:28 PM

This branch of "my" family is fundamentalist, very Christian in the sense that religious talk comes easily to them, like George W Bush because he is a "godly man", blame liberals/Democrats (synonymous to them) for impeding Republicans in their sacred quest to make the world a better place, you get the picture.

So what is it about Alan Keyes that would appeal to them?

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:29 PM

He had some very strange ideas about the Constitution see here from a thread 4 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:30 PM

He seemed to believe that each state could make any rules about religion it chose...

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: GUEST,Mike in DC
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:45 PM

He's also an extremely conservative Catholic. It wouldn't surprise me if he split with the Catholic Church because the Pope is too liberal.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 06:56 PM

hmmm. Maybe so, but I'd kinda doubt it. I'm thinking he'd be more in line with the new pope (theologically) than the past pope.

Ebbie, I'm from a fundamentalist branch that used to believe VERY strongly that making the world a better (more moral) place DOES NOT come from the government down, but from the individual up (if at all) -- and that's a BIG if....meaning we didn't hold to ushering in a new age and the return of Christ with our righteousness. We believed pretty strongly in being salt and light in a fallen world -- for all it's worth -- not because we WOULD thus change the world, but because it is the right thing to do). <<<----pretty long as parenthetic phrases go, innit?

Anyway, I'm alarmed at the extent to which government has become an obsession with factions of fundamentalism. I have heard that it is STRONGLY trending away from that now -- I think they've become disillusioned by the Republican duplicity at using them over and over. Fundamentalists seem to be choosing not to be to Republicans what Blacks are to Democrats. That's probably a VERY good thing...

I don't care if it's disillusionment that got them to step back and re-assess their theology, but it's a good thing that many of them are.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: bobad
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:03 PM

You have to use angle brackets not square brackets for the code here.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:07 PM

You're using the wrong code, John. You need to use these < > instead of these [ ].

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:07 PM

Oops. Crossposted.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: John Hardly
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:14 PM

oh yeah. *banging head on wall* [img]Chris Farley screaming god.....I.....AM....SO.....STUPID![/img]

[all fixed - a clone]

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: kendall
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 07:54 PM

..a better world? did the democrats stop Bush and his gang from pulling a "Pearl Harbor" on Iraq? Did they stand in his way when he ran up this 9 trillion dollar debt? Is the recession their fault?

This country is mostly made up of ordinary working people. Have your people tell you what the republican party ever did for the working man. Ask how many of them are drawing social security, and, do they know which party created it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:34 PM

Alan Keyes is a nutball, Eb... That's all you have to know about the guy...

If he were president he would not have a clue as to what to actually do...

Yeah, he talks the talk but he'd walk the walk like a Saturday night drunk...

And you can take that to the bank...

Tell yer relatives exactly that...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:49 PM

He carrys water for those who direct the Bush administration.
Alan Keyes was payed cash money to recite his "opinions" for the W administration. He got a big check for toting the no child left behind agenda. I wouldn't say he is evil. Rather he is simply no worse a whore than most ditto head politicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Apr 08 - 08:52 PM

At this point I haven't responded to any of the stuff they've said. (These are the people who circulated the 'Scurrilous but Circulating Lies re Obama' that I posted. I did respond to that first one by doring a 'Reply All' and saying, This email's content is FALSE. Check www.snopes.com)

The discussion going on now refers now and then to what I wrote then , such as one former brother in law of mine said, 'Some of the email is true, some of it may not be. I don't really care.'

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: mrdux
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 01:21 AM

here's a link to Keyes' positions. just a couple quotes, which will give a bit of the flavor of his approach:

"The idea of the 'pursuit of happiness' in our great Declaration presupposes the right of property,"

"The harlot uses or abuses human sexual formation for pleasure only, making that the objective of everything. It is that understanding of human sexual relations that I think we ought to know is now at the bottom of the assault that is taking place on the traditional family. We are in a debate right now over what marriage will be, and some folks want us to accept an understanding of the marriage relationship in which that sexual relationship is defined as being between two people who have no possibility, in principle, of ever producing a child. And that means that the whole connection between human sexuality and God's plan of procreation is destroyed if we embrace this understanding of human sexuality."

"The effort to equate homosexual and lesbian relations with legal marriage represents a destructive assault on the heterosexual, marriage-based family."

"We think economics is about money. No, it's not. If you really understood it, you'd realize money is not economics. It's about whether or not you have sustained the strength and integrity of your household, of your family relations, of all the strengths that can come when that network works the way it's supposed to."

"If the Declaration of Independence states our creed, then there can be no right to abortion, since it means denying the most fundamental right of all to human offspring in the womb."

"Roe v. Wade was the most obscenely illogical and shoddily-written Supreme Court decision perhaps in the whole history of our country. There was a perverse illogic to it that ought to, even to this day, warn us against the possibility that it has any real ground or foundation in our law or the Constitution.

"In addition to overturning Roe v. Wade, we need a Human Life Amendment that respects life and restores our respect for the will of God.

"As for the so-called 'right to suicide' and related practices such as euthanasia: whatever emotional arguments we make on their behalf, they represent a violation of the principles of the Declaration of Independence."

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 12:02 PM

Whew. He leaves himself wide open, doesn't he.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: mg
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 03:14 AM

He is spot on about the family networks. :If you have that you are very lucky. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 02:08 PM

Economics is the study of how humans rationally and irrationaly use resources. The tide of irrationality is as dependable as the moon's.




Overall I would say that Alan Keyes earns his income by inflicting more cruelty to men and women than love or understanding.
Who among us would turn down millions of dollars to do the same?
don't answer automatically, think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Tell Me About Alan Keyes
From: M.Ted
Date: 21 Apr 08 - 05:08 PM

Alan Keyes is actually a very pleasant man to talk to, at least I've been told so by people who've met him(he is a Montgomery County neighbor to BillD, Donuel, me, and the other Maryland Mudcatters)--but he's a shameless panderer, and says what he says because he thinks that it appeals to the "fundamentalists" that he tries to rally.

He is scary to listen to, and it is highly improbable that a man as well educated and experienced as he is would ever really believe any of the stuff that he says. During the debates, the other Republican presidential candidates distanced themselves from his views at every opportunity. Now, he's leaving the party--probably because he thinks the time is ripe to bash, rather than support it--