Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five

Subject: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 12:31 PM

Hi All,
Just a little reminder.

Eddie

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 01:50 PM

Cool! Thanks.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 02:24 PM

Thanks - and who did I miss last week, please.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Apr 08 - 02:46 PM

Athena (Andreadis) - there is a separate thread on her

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Folknacious
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 10:43 AM

Best of the series so far, a splendid showcase for our music and the motivation behind one of our best artists. And doesn't it say something about this forum that on previous weeks when there's been something, however minor, to moan about there's been an immediate pile into the topic, but for Eliza's programme not a word so far today. Does this mean that Mudcat viewers were actually satisfied for a change? Or were you all away at festivals?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: the button
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 10:49 AM

I was still asleep.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:18 AM

Very good programme but why the un-necesary two pop music DJs and the equally superfluous punk as talking heads. The Carthys and Watersons were excellent at explaining everything that we needed to know.Nobody else needed.

Hoot.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,John in Lancs
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 11:53 AM

Always enjoyable to see Eliza but always slightly disappointed when she's pushing the self-penned stuff. I know these things are personal taste but it simply doesn't "do it" for me. Today's documentary seemed to imply that she's in the same writing tradition as Lal but I don't see any similarity. Eliza's songs tend to be poorly constructed with flat, obvious, verse. It is only the usual adept arrangements and committed playing that make them listenable.

Sitting through a concert at Bury on her last tour when she was previewing the new album you could sense the audience's goodwill and enthusiasm evaporating as she reached her third self-penned song. It was obvious that she was aware of this on stage and it was uncomfortable to watch. It must be awkward when you're used to rapturous applause for the trad and trad.arr. stuff but then the best you can muster with the new song writing is polite applause. She needs to learn from this, IMHO, and sparingly incorporate some of the new stuff into her normal folk shows rather than making her audiences listen to all the latest new-penned angst in a single sitting. A little goes a very long way.

I could have done without the rent-a-gob talking heads (Mark Radcliffe, zzzz zzzz) and the plodding narration.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Kiss Me Slow Slap Me Quick
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 12:22 PM

Definately the best in the series. I like her even better now than before the program. BUT as I said in another thread on a previous show.... there realy must be a better way to present these type of programs, or is just a well produced and recorded concert, or a set of live performances too dangerious. I say cut the gumm flapping, let's hear the music.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: mattkeen
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 12:32 PM

No its not a concert series, that is an entirely different type of programme, and I am glad that this series is not just concert footage.

This is a chance for people to get over all the other things about the music, their approach, how they came to it etc etc.
Much better for people who are the converted.

And before you say it No the music is not enough on its own - it is to the converted (thats us) but we are a tiny minority o the music listening public


This series has been a really good attempt at getting the music via the artists over to the general telly watching public

I any case I don't think Channel 5 would have been interested in 4 concert programmes.

Also the excellent Kathryn Tickell one that started it all still to come

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 12:39 PM

GUEST, Hootenanny, I wouldn't call Billy Bragg a "superfluous punk". He may be superfluous to you, but the programme was not addressing simply the dyed-in-the-wool fans of folk, but the wider population. And in that wider population, whether you find him superfluous or not, he carries some cred (Actually, he carries some even within the folk supporters).

So, even though I personally share your dislike for some of the talking heads (though not for BB), I can see the reasons they were included.

KMSSMQ, I agree about finding a better way to present such material. Perhaps some of the "gumm flapping" could be replaced by subtitles giving us the comments, rather than voice-overs. In this I would welcome the views of Tom Bliss, who has experience of TV production.

But overall, excellent. As - let's admit it - I thought and hoped it would be.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:03 PM

Hootenanny,
          I`m with you. I cannot understand why the BBC wheels out B.Bragg for his opinions on "folk" music or any other music for that matter. He is not especially qualified in that field. There must be others out there whose contributions would make a refreshing change.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 01:18 PM

"...There must be others out there whose contributions would make a refreshing change..."

John, there may well be. But the chances are they would not be recognised by the average C5 viewer, no matter what their qualifications. And I repeat my sentiments from above: None of us on this forum can claim that our personal tastes are definitive. So if you don't consider BB a folkie, good. I would not try to change your view. Just don't try to persuade me that this is the only valid view. You can always write to the BBC and take this up with them.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 02:32 PM

Re the B.B.C., you had better believe it, I`ve tried,. all to no avail.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 02:55 PM

The talking heads were, I believe, chosen for the purpose of making the programme more attractive to the curious viewer rather than the committed aficionado. I agree with George, BB had something to say that was relevant and interesting, the others (apart from the Waterson clan and Lucy Adams) made me cringe.

An interesting programme, I thought. As for John comments, I'm also not convinced about Eliza's own material or some of her experiments, but hey, at least she is prepared to take some risks; for me, some work, some don't (I can't stand half of Red Rice, but the other half is sublime). Next week is Kathryn Tickell. I've already seen that one, but for me it is the most interesting and enjoyable of the lot.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 02:56 PM

Yes, thinking about it, the question was rhetorical, I suppose, John...

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: the button
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:01 PM

"Celebrity endorsements" are pretty much par for the course for folk music nowadays. Like the fuss that was made when that bloke from Blur turned up to the Young Coppers at C# House. But then remember the shock and outrage a couple of weeks back when Matthew Parris said nasty things about our beloved music? Famous people can't win, it seems. Heh.

It might be irksome, but if it helps one more person to go, "Oh, I might give some of this a listen," then fair play, I say. Very few of us were born listening to folk music, I'm guessing, and we all got into it somehow. Would this programme about Eliza Carthy have been screened without some celebs to give their imprimatur? I'm not so sure.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 03:57 PM

Billy Bragg is most definitely not superfluous punk, and I'll continue to listen to his opinions whether I agree with a particular one or not. Eliza Carthy is a wonderful and talented musician and I'll continue to listen to her.

Charlotte

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 04:17 PM

Opinions may differ on the value of the journalistic opinions expressed, but thank God for the music. And more than the music, the depth of thought and feeling and all the other stuff behind it. Eliza Carthy's music seems to me to sit very well in the landscape and culture, and that's enough for me.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 27 Apr 08 - 05:33 PM

People can write to the BBC and complain that Billy Bragg was featured too much on this programme if they like, but .... the programme was made for Channel 5 not the BBC. Having heard the producer of this series speak at the pre-AFO conference last year, I know that the reason it was made was because of the tremendous audience response to the Kathryn Tickell programme. The message is clear ... if we want more programmes like this, write to Channel 5 and tell them how much you loved it! I believe the key person at Channel 5 is Kim Peat (who also commissioned Tony Palmer's film about Vaughan Williams ... which had its fair share of folk music in it!)
Derek Schofield

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 06:40 AM

write to them here....   
[e-mail]

Eddie

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:21 AM

"I cannot understand why the BBC wheels out B.Bragg for his opinions on "folk" music or any other music for that matter. He is not especially qualified in that field."

Billy Bragg is HIGHLY qualified to give his opinion in this field. As well as being one of the finest songwriters of this, or any other era, he once stood in as a Waterson on some of their gigs in the early 80's. Now, I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that that's a pretty good qualification!

"Between Marx and Marzipan in the dictionary, there was Mary'

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:49 AM

On the subject of folk songs and Billy Bragg, I have written the lyrics below to, what was probably the greatest anti-Thatcher/Tory song of the 1980's. Now, I defy ANYONE to tell me that this is not a folk song!

DAYS LIKE THESE

The party that became so powerful by sinking foreign boats,
Is dreaming up new promises, coz promises win votes.
Being resolute in conference and the ad man's expertise,
The majority by their silence, shall pay for days like these.

The right to build communities is back behind closed doors,
Between government and people stands the right arm of the law.
And shame upon the patriot when the mark of the bulldog breed,
Is a family without a home and a pensioner in need.

Those who's lives are ruled by dogma are waiting for a sign,
the 'better dead than red brigade' are listening on the line.
And the liberal with a small L cries in front of the TV,
As another demonstration passes on to history.

Peace, bread, work and freedom is the best we can achieve.
Wearing badges is not enough in days like these!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 07:57 AM

Vast numbers of people are apparently under the impression that Between The Wars is traditional.

Woody Guthrie's family specifically asked for Mr Bragg of Barking to make use of the unrecorded Woody song archive, large tracts of which many others also believe to be trad.

Is the point beginning to surface yet?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:04 AM

Here here Diane! That's all without Billy's various collaborations with other folkies like Dick Gaughan. His songs such as 'I dreamed I saw Phil Ochs last night' and 'Power in a union'.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 08:12 AM

Maybe Edward de Bono would like to give an opinion :-)

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Santa
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:41 AM

The Input: Do you entirely equate "left-wing political" to "folk"? If so, that song is folk. If not, maybe it is, maybe it isn't.   What's the tune? Has it been sung by different people since the Thatcher years? I've seen equally direct words used in a pop song: just having the "right" attitude isn't enough.

Personally, I think "folk" is a lot wider than "left-wing protest". That is partially how I came to take an interest in the field, but only partially.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 10:56 AM

No Santa, of course it's not purely that folk music constitutes heavy leanings to the left. It may not have been sung by different people since the Thatcher years but that doesn't mean it ISN'T folk. It's a song that really tells the tale, in a few brief lines, the treachery that happened and asks the question, how did it happen? It's part of our social history. So, what is folk music? We all know that's a ludicrous question. All I know is that if I hear a song with great lyrics, a great melody that delivers a great message then, be it folk or not (I really don't care), it's won me over. Billy Bragg has that ability to deliver all three criteria on a regular basis to me. As for the tune, go listen to it. I wouldn't know a chord if it smacked me in the face. Go and put your own tune to it if you have to and take it into the clubs. But don't tell me it aint folk music!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 11:45 AM

My kingdom for a ....!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:10 PM

The Input,
          I will support you in your right to believe that B.Bragg is one of the finest song writers of the era and qualified to do whatever providing you will allow me to regard him as a nothing above average floor spot with some political doggerel thats all been heard before.
          Regarding qualification, I once helped Eliza Carthy push her mum, in a wheelchair, through a very narrow crowded street but I do not feel that qualifies me to be a para-medic.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:23 PM

Please don't patronise me with all that 'I support your right' bullshit John. As for Bragg being a 'nothing above average floor spot', tell me what clubs you visit please. They must be tremendous. Carlsberg don't do folk clubs but if they did.............

Now, as opposed to offering your opinion on who you don't like would you please offer up to me exactly who you do like.

I'm intrigued.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 12:56 PM

Dear Input,
       Eliza Carthy and Her parents, The Amazing Mr. Smith, the late Tony Rose, Gordon Hall, Ron and George Spicer, Jake Thackray and Bob Copper. Eric Clapton, the Stones and Beatles, CSN&Y, James Taylor, Roy Harris, Jim Bainbridge, Alistair Anderson, Kate Bush, Martyn Wyndham-Read, Tony Deane, Spike Jones, Frank Crummit, Hank Williams, Tim Laycock, Malcolm Price, Chris Wood, John Conolly, Tony Hall, Mark Knoffler, Django Reinhardt, Leonard Cohen. This is just for starters but I must stop for I feel the onset of RSI but it gives you a good idea.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 01:37 PM

" I will support you in your right to believe that B.Bragg is one of the finest song writers of the era and qualified to do whatever providing you will allow me to regard him as a nothing above average floor spot with some political doggerel thats all been heard before."

It seems to me that we've heard all this before too, but it's seen here time and time again, sooooo..... :-D

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 02:29 PM

John From Kemsing,

Some very good floor singers in there too of course. Some very bad floor singers in there too. Some we even agree on.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 28 Apr 08 - 05:46 PM

Having seen another programme about Eliza (some kind of faiths or beliefs prog on ITV or C4), it was kind of disappointing that this doc didn't touch on her early days with Nancy Kerr, the Kings of Calicutt, the Warner Brother years, that she has played for morris sides and enjoys a good session in the pub.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 01:13 AM

Incidentally JFK, do you like the music of anybody born after 1960? ('liza excepted of course).

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 02:26 AM

Pete, I think this programme was focusing more on Eliza's main influences and creative strengths. I think this is the idea for the series. It is understandable therefore if they did not talk much about her development stages and collaborations. Sure, they also played a role, but then everything does. This was the broadbrush painting of the musician today, as she is now, identifying the major characteristics.

Also, as you said, other programmes have focused on her development. Why repeat the exercise? Much better to give a new perspective.

On second viewing, on YouTube, I minded the Talking Heads less. I guess my first reaction had been "let me hear the whole song", as if that was a televised concert. But it wasn't. And to get views of Eliza from a critic, a comedian, a peer or two from the music world, served decently in painting her picture today. And quite rightly, most of the talking heads were not from the folk world but rather from the wider world of music and entertainment. Not only for wider audience appeal and credibility, but also for a wider perspective on "our" Eliza.

Because she is not "ours" to mothball and keep in a glass cabinet. She is a complete artist, who shares our love for traditional English folk and its most powerful exponent today in the world at large. We should count our blessings, just as her Mum and Dad do ( I was impressed by the way Martin talked about her, with a little awe mixed in with the parental pride).

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 03:27 AM

I think the reason that comedian Stuart Lee was one of the talking heads is because he's been developing a profile for himself for some years as a folk music critic in the Sunday Times Culture magazine. So it wasn't as random a choice as it might first seem.

I thought the programme was great.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 04:08 AM

It makes sense - a comedian becoming a critic. Some would say the reverse of some critics. Though I could never possibly comment.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 04:41 AM

Pity Stewart Lee didn't look at Peggy Seeger's statement about what actually occurred at the Ballads & Blues. To say that "Ewan MacColl decreed that is you were English you couldn't sing a Scots song and if you were Welsh you couldn't do an English one" is patent nonsense.

The policy formulated by members (not MacColl) was: if you were singing from the stage, you sang in a language that you could speak and understand.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 04:47 AM

Diane Easby above mentions that Woody Guthrie's daughter asked the Bard of Barking to set some of Woody's lyrics to music and seems to think that this qualifies him as an expert on folk music.
I remember watching part of the resulting TV programme and was most amused to hear a well known song that pre-dates Guthrie being sung to a new Bragg tune.
The fact that Woody had the lyrics of a song written down needn't mean that he was the author. I have the words of many songs written down without music. I didn't write one of them.

As pointed out above writing a protest song however good or bad still does not make you an expert on folk music.

The important thing is that folk and folk flavoured music is getting exposure on TV even though we can't see it because we are at morning service. However there many knowledgeable people on the scene that could have added more IF talking heads are needed.

Hoot

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 04:59 AM

Diane

Were you at the Ballads nd Blues Club at this time ? I was and it was Ewan that told Lisa Turner on one occasion that she could not play an American song or tune which she intended to do and that she should perform an English number. Lisa quite correctly refused and returned to her seat. She was probably goung to play Wilson Rag or one of the other tunes that Peggy taught us how to play "Cotten Picking Style"
The policy WAS NOT formulated by us members. Most of us appreciated the American material thanks to the presence at the club of PEGGY SEEGER, Ralph Rinzler, Dean Gitter, Fred Gerlach, Jack Elliott Guy Carawan etc. Perhaps Diane you are confusing the Ballads and Blues Club with the breakaway Singers Club.

Hoot

PS What has this to do with Eliza Carthy?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Sarah, Barnsley
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 05:00 AM

erm..... at the risk of stating the obvious, Mark Radcliffe's ('just a 'pop' DJ')band are headlining at the picturedrome on the saturday at Holmfirth, so he must know a bit about folk music eh?

Sarah x

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Input
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 05:28 AM

I'm guessing Sarah that if presenters aren't dressed in the regulation aran sweater and carrying the obligatory pewter tankard then they simply aint qualified to talk about folk music. Such outdated attitudes. No wonder the masses won't embrace the music and the tradition and, let's face it, who can blame them?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 05:41 AM

Yes I was there (some of the time) and I confess to taking part in the piss-take of pretending to be a student from overseas till Ewan got wise and recognised me, and then very kindly asked me to come along to the Critics.

As for B&B policy, I was not in any way involved in formulating its policy. I merely quote Peggy Seeger's statement above. Read it then go and pick a fight with her if you want. Ask her if she is confused.

What it has to do with the Eliza Carthy programme is that Talking Head Stewart Lee said what I referred to above, and the film's there on YouTube. And this sort of invented misquoting does a great deal of damage to the music we all (?) would wish to promote. However, one of the programme makers has graciously agreed that this is the sort of quote that really ought to have been checked.

All sorts of people have stories of what Ewan is alleged to have said to them. If he'd actually talked to a tiny percentage of those who claim to have been prevented by him from performing, he'd have had no time left to get up onstage himself.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 05:51 AM

At the risk of invoking more wrath. Mark Radcliffe (along with other BBC presenters Stuart Maconie, Andy Kershaw, Verity Sharpe, Bob Harris, Johnnie Walker, and the late John Peel, and many many others) have all, in their own way championed various aspects of "our" music (whatever that is) for many, many years.

To Diss Mark as a "Pop DJ" is to show ignorance in the extreme.

And to follow the other half of the thread, of Course Billy Bragg is a folk singer, so is, Elvis Costello, Robert Wyatt, Ian Dury, Tom Waits, Kirsty McColl, and so many other current writers.
For example.
are Bill Caddick, John Tams, Pete Morton, Richard Thompson, Jez Lowe not folk singers too? (not to mention Martin Carthy himself)

Of course Channel 5 should be soundly congratulated on the current series of programmes. Of course the timing is all to cock, but, whats the problem with recording the shows, and lending them to friends to try and spread the word?

I can also thouroughly reccommend the Kathryn Tickell doc this coming Sunday. I luckily caught it on tape the first time around, and have shown it to several non-folkie friends who where amazed by it.

I would urge everyone to heap praise on Ch5 and the producers (even if not all of the programmes were to your liking)

Who knows, a few more documentary crumbs might fall from the rich mans table in the future as a consequence (Leon Rosselon gets my vote)


Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: mattkeen
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 06:29 AM

+ 1 for Ralphie's post

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 07:29 AM

ditto

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 09:42 AM

Thank You Friends.
Cheques in the post
R

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 10:11 AM

Cheques? I only abstained because I thought it was chocolates, and I am dieting. Otherwise, +1 from me too.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Stu
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 10:35 AM

After reading the Peggy Seeger statement my opinion is it only serves to reinforce Stuart Lee's comments, even if his recollection of the original story is slightly imperfect. Whilst any tradition needs to keep true to it's source and understand and treasure it's roots, the idea there is only one way to sing a song and play a tune is shite, whether she likes it or not.

If you listened to Radcliffe's weekday shows (these days with Stuart Maconie, who also plays folk music on his Freak Zone on Sundays), you'll know he often plays folk music, and Eliza used to be a regular on the show. As a DJ, he has more depth of knowledge than most and is also pretty catholic in taste and understands the context Eliza's music is seen in by much of the modern folk audience.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Surreysinger
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 10:36 AM

Hmm .. are those cheques from us TO Ralphie, or from him to us?? I'm looking forward to revisiting the Kathryn Tickell programme next week - particularly after seeing her and the band at Farnham Maltings last night - stunning stuff... and they mentioned the programme (although it was touch and go whether the audience would have seen it as Peter said it was on at 11pm on the Sunday (I wish) ... at least I think it was Peter ... whoever it was, it was swiftly corrected.) Oh, and +1 from me too!

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 11:12 AM

Diane, I am not picking a fight with anyone. I was at the Ballads and Blues Club from 1957 or 58 virtually every Saturday evening until it closed in May of 1965. I knew Peggy but not particularly well from when she first arrived here and I also took guitar lessons from her until her short stay visa ran out. I do not just "claim to have been there". I have no quarrel with the stand that Ewan or Ewan and Peggy made, we all have our own preferences for the way we prefer to hear the music. They departed from the Ballads and Blues Club which was run by Malcolm Nixon and Pete Turner and set up the Singers Club so there was no problem as they could and did set up there own policy. I last met Peggy about seven years ago when we had a pleasant time reminiscing about those days.

Re the definition of folk music and folk singers, there is an oft quoted phrase credited at various times to Fats Waller, Louis Armstrong and Big Bill Broonzy to mention just three "it's all folk music, I ain't never heard a horse sing"

The music belongs to everyone and the good stuff lasts, the crap just falls by the wayside.

Hoot

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Eddie Frost
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 11:17 AM

http://www.proudfoot.tv/clientwork/KTecard.jpg

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 11:32 AM

Diane,

I did as you advised and read Peggy's statement. There is one point that I would just like to clarify. The B&B club by which I take it Peggy means the Ballads and Blues Club, DID NOT become the Singer's Club. When I first started going to the Ballads and Blues Club it was run as I mentioned above by Malcolm Nixon and Pete Turner. It continued under Malcolm Nixon and to a lesser extent Pete Turner until it closed in 1965.
Peggy and Ewan left the residency which they held at the Ballads and Blues Club and set up The Singer's Club with the help I believe of Bruce Dunnett. The Ballads and Blues club and the Singer's Club were both operating at the same time from then onward along with several other clubs in London.

Hoot

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 12:14 PM

Whaddya all talking about me for?
If you didn't agree with B&B policy you didn't have to go there.
It only applied in that one place, it wasn't a pan-global edict and Ewan MacColl didn't invent it.
Nor was it me that said B&B "became the Singers".
I remember perfectly well what happened and for a while I went, occasionally, to both.
What's at issue is the clarification of a policy which was not at all as described by Stewart Lee in Sunday's doc.
He said Ewan said . . . blah blah. Ewan did not.
My sole concern is that a documentary should be accurate in the hope that tripe is not dished up the next time this subject arises and My Music is cited as a source.

If you listened to Radcliffe's weekday shows

You talking to me? Nah. Radio 2? Moi?
Actually I did listen once about 18 months ago for 10 minutes. Something about a summer's day or a cup of tea. Not sure which.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Santa
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 02:27 PM

Now to the important question. When is it being repeated for those unfortunates such as myself who missed it?

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Stu
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 02:28 PM

"You talking to me?"

Er, I wasn't actually.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,stigweard somewhere el
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 04:03 PM

Santa - it's on YouTube.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 04:32 PM

stigweard, thanks for the pointer to you tube, I just finished watching the programme, now why, oh why din't someone post a couple more of the programmes? This one is thoroughly enjoyable, regardless of what some naysayers may think.

Charlotte R

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 05:16 AM

Hi Charlotte,
I have put this on here before and I apologise to those that have seen this over and over again, but I want Five to get the point that this was a bad time to put these programmes on. You can email them here:

[e-mail]

Not that I've got anything vested in it...

Eddie

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:52 AM

You can always tape or DVD it, then watch it when you want to.

eric

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: Santa
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 01:10 PM

You can always DVD it, if you remember it in the first place!

Thanks for the link.

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: mattkeen
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:03 PM

I bet nobody thought of that eric

thanks for your very helpful suggestion

Subject: RE: Eliza Carthy doc Sunday 11am on Five
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:14 PM

'You can always tape or DVD it, then watch it when you want to.'

My only option was and is You Tube as I live on the west coast of Canada..The programme was actually shown at 3am in the morning our time, and you think you have a problem ? *LOL*

Charlotte R