The price of the gig. Oh Canada!

Subject: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: Don Meixner
Date: 20 May 99 - 06:22 PM

Hello All

Here is a perplexing problem that affects me directly in my wallet. Now granted I'd probably sing and play for free but I won't sing for a cut rate price. I also won't sing for a reduced rate because its good exposure. After thirty years in the business my band doesn't need exposure. But lately we in the Syracuse and central New York area have been losing jobs to Canadian bands who come here to perform and because of the tremendous exchange rate can work for less than the locals and take home a good chunk of change. I know that some things even out when you go back across the border. Bread that costs me a dollar cost a buck and a half. If I smoked, cigarettes are twice the price up north and beer is more expensive up there but Its' better beer. Here is where the problem lies. If I cross the border to play a job I have to charge twice as much to come back with what I'd earn if I played at The Allways Inn. I understand I'd have to show Canadian content in my performances and I'd have to hire Canadian musicians to play, or not play as the case would be. Reciprocally, this has not been the case to my knowledge when I've played bills with The Brigadoons, or The Glenngarry Boys, or Tartan Special. I certainly don't think ill of these bands for making a living and if Rick ever gets near here I'll go see him at the drop of a scotch. But what solution is there short of balancing a budget and closing the border to cultural exchange? Then everyone loses.

Don

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 20 May 99 - 06:46 PM

Hi Don. Actually the Canadian content thing and hiring Canadian musicians is in the long ago history. It started because the musician's union was worried that almost every theatre production here was with an American cast. There are no such restrictions anymore. The Canadian dollar is now worth 65 (or less) cents on the American dollar.
One of the sillier ways that the govt. tried to protect Canadian Show and symphony musicians about thirty years ago was to pay scale to a changeable number of players to just sit on their asses while the Americans did the show.
Basically a solo or band can play anywhere or anything in Canada by paying a fee at the border (also changeable) and doing the gig. The main problem is that virtually no club in Toronto (or otherwise) pays even close to the money now that they did ten or twenty years ago. Most of my engagements are now house concerts and festivals. I've got some specific info on something coming up if you'd like to give me a call tonight at 416-690-8697.
rick

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: campfire
Date: 20 May 99 - 07:28 PM

Don't feel too bad, Rick. From what I gather, no place HERE pays anything like they did ten or twenty years ago, either (here being, at least, Milwaukee, WI, USA).

For "folk" or acoustic acts, especially at coffeehouses and other smaller venues, "the door" - often minus a few operating expenses- is the norm.

My "special friend" - gosh, what DOES one call them, these days? - used to play in Austin, Tucson, and such - fifteen years ago - and get paid enough to live on. When he moved here, and found the "going rate" was $30.00 a night, he pretty much gave up playing out.

campfire

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 20 May 99 - 08:13 PM

Almost all of my profesiional playing has been in groups where I have been leader/manager as well. It's an old saying but it has served me well -"You pay peanuts and you get monkeys". This has long been my service/price philosophy.

Pay the full fee and we will guarantee you a completely professional service (we will be on time, sober, play for 4 hours to suit your needs, quality sound etc). Appeal to our generosity, curiosity or whatever and we'll play for no fee BUT please don't expect to get the whole shebang for gratis AND to protect the brand name of our band, it is not The xxxx Band playing, merely some of its members. The xxxx Band is only available as a full package at a certain price.

Regards
John

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 May 99 - 11:02 PM

To quote Georges Bizet:
"Music! What a splendid art! But what a wretched profession..."

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: Alex
Date: 21 May 99 - 01:41 AM

I guess I'd have to plead guilty in this case because I have hired Canadian artists (and will continue to do so). This is based primarily on talent, but also on the amount of a guarantee they would agree to. Small venues exist on volunteers and a very slim margin of performer fees to expenses costs. A couple of bad nights and we are in the red and close to wipeout.. Canadians do have to pay a $100 (US) fee every time they cross the border, so most Canadian performers try to put together some kind of a mini tour to spread that fee. So they will play some "cheap gigs". (Although the last Canadian performers I hired, when asked at the border why they were going to Chicago, replied, "Oh.. er..uh.. Oprah?" "Ok, have a nice visit!" ) The bigger problem is a drying up of larger folk venues due to lack of an audience which has also resulted in "Name" acts having to play smaller clubs just to keep going. This shunts the lesser known acts into the $30 a night places. We seem to be in a trough of popularity and the great days of the (as Art describes it) 60s Folk Scare are long gone. It also seems that median age of those of us in the folk community is rising and many of us still seem to expect to attend a folk concert for less than the price of a movie admission. I'm not sure what the solution is to this problem. We certainly need to see more young people coming into the genre and find some way of generating a larger audience willing to pay a reasonable ticket price. You only have to browse the "Dirty Linen" tour schedule to realize just how many performers, pro, semi-pro and amateur, are out there trying to find places to play. At times, we seem to have more people who want to perform than we have paying listeners. We are a community of musicians and maybe it is the fact that we are all musicians to some degree that allows us to really appreciate the scope of " folk" music.

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 May 99 - 02:56 AM

What sems to work in the UK (OK we don't have people just hopping over the border) is to run your club as a singers' club 3 weeks a month, still charging a pittance to come in (singers too) - we charge GBP1 at our club. The pub gives the romm free - to sell more beer. We run a raffle. SO each of these weeks shows a profit of GBP 10 to GBP 20. About once a month we can afford a guest. Most of the big names encourage small clubs by playing for a huge discount. Next month it's Martin Carthy who will play to a small room packed (I guess) with 70 people. For him we will charge entry of GBP 4. For most other artists we will charge GBP 2. Not-very famous acts get a market rate of between GBP 50 and GBP 100. We put performers who have come a distance up at our house. We then make a loss of between GBP 40 and GBP 100 per guest. SO over time we break even. Bands are a problem - they need so much more money. A straight per head multiple of GBP 100 soon adds up, so I fear we will never be able to book say Coope Boyes and Simpson - possibly the UK's premier acappella folk trio.

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: Alex
Date: 22 May 99 - 01:04 AM

I haven't heard of Coope Boyes & Simpson or their music on this side of the pond. I'd find it hard to believe they are better than (or the equal of) Artisan. Do they have a web site?

Subject: RE: The price of the gig. Oh Canada!
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 May 99 - 06:10 AM

I think of Artisan as almost jazz. I'll see if I can find out about a Coope Boyes and Simpson website.