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3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull

DigiTrad:
THREE SCORE AND TEN


Related threads:
(origins) Origins: Three Score and Ten (71)
(origins) Origins: Threescore and Ten (55)
A note to Three Score and Ten (73)
3 score & 10; How big was Grimsby Town? (12)
Chord Req: Three Score and Ten (7)
Three Score and Ten - What event? (13)


GeoffLawes 29 Apr 08 - 07:48 AM
Sir Roger de Beverley 29 Apr 08 - 08:20 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 29 Apr 08 - 08:25 AM
John Routledge 29 Apr 08 - 08:36 AM
GeoffLawes 29 Apr 08 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 29 Apr 08 - 08:44 AM
GeoffLawes 29 Apr 08 - 08:45 AM
Willa 29 Apr 08 - 10:51 AM
Tig 29 Apr 08 - 06:20 PM
GeoffLawes 29 Apr 08 - 06:32 PM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Apr 08 - 03:37 AM
Keith A of Hertford 30 Apr 08 - 08:54 AM
Bat Goddess 30 Apr 08 - 09:18 AM
GeoffLawes 30 Apr 08 - 10:17 AM
Bat Goddess 30 Apr 08 - 07:28 PM
Willa 01 May 08 - 05:46 PM
janemick 18 Dec 10 - 05:02 PM
Tootler 19 Dec 10 - 01:09 AM
GUEST 19 Dec 10 - 07:48 AM
Rozza 19 Dec 10 - 02:02 PM
GUEST,Susie 19 Dec 10 - 05:07 PM
peregrina 19 Dec 10 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,SteveG 19 Dec 10 - 05:51 PM
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Subject: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 07:48 AM

Yesterday I went in to the old Sculcoates graveyard off Beverley Road in Hull which has recently been cleared of some of its overwhelming infestation of Japanese knotweed and I noticed a gravestone with a small carving of a wrecked ship . When I read the gravestone tribute, the word that jumped out at me was the word "smack" because of course " fishing smacks as well" is a line from the chorus of Three Score and Ten. The date, 1889, seemed right from my knowledge of the song and so I wrote down the whole inscription and when I brought it home I was greatly enthused to find that all the details fit.Here is what the inscription said;

IN LOVING MEMORY OF JAMES SECOND SON OF THO'S & ANN STEPHENSON WHO WAS LOST AT SEA BY THE FOUNDERING OF THE SMACK "OLIVE BRANCH" FEBRUARY 9TH 1889 AGED 45. ALSO MARIA CATHERINE HIS BELOVED WIFE WHO DIED APRIL 5TH 1889 AGED 49 YEARS
                     _______

COME UNTO ME ALL YE THAT ARE WEARY -AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST
                     _______

HE HAS GONE, HOW HARD NOT A FRIEND TO BE NEAR,
TO HEAR HIS LAST SIGH OR WATCH HIS LAST TEAR,
NO PARTING FAREWELL,NO KIND WORDS OF LOVE,
TO CHEER HIS LAST MOMENTS OR POINT HIM ABOVE.


What a story the inscription suggests. Maria Catherine died just two months after James was drowned.
Roy Palmer's notes to the song in Boxing the Compass, formerly published as the Oxford Book of Sea Songs, confirm that The Olive Branch was a Hull vessel and that the date of the dreadful gale was February 8th&9th.I have taken a photograph of the headstone which is not, I will confess, very clear because of the dirt, lichen and weathering, but if it is of special interest I will send it to anyone who PMs. The Mudcat archive shows very extensive interest in the song so I'm hoping that this is an offer that is not going to turn into my own battle with the swell.
Does anyone know the whereabouts of any other 3 score and 10 graves?


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Sir Roger de Beverley
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:20 AM

I have been meaning to visit that cemetery for quite a while as paper research tells me that many of my family (Busbys and Barmbys) are buried there. Now I've got an even stronger reason to go.

R


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:25 AM

Don't want to be a party pooper but the song contains the line

"October night was such a night as was never seen before"

Storms are frequent along the east coast, such as the one that wrecked the Whitby lifeboat in 1861 or the one that caused the most dramatic rescue of the Visitor from Robin Hoods Bay in 1881. Thus is it by no means guarenteed that your gravestone relates to this song.


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: John Routledge
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:36 AM

The date should be February in the song Doesn't sing as well though.


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:39 AM

Hi Raggytash, I didn't address that point because it is well established (see the vast Mudcat archive) that the verse about October was a later and mistaken addition to the original poem about the Great Storm of February 1889 which was written by William Delf to raise money for the bereaved families.
Geoff


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:44 AM

Hi Geoff .......... I went on to read other threads and noted Les from Hull's contribution, if it is good enough for Les I'm convinced !

Cheers


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 08:45 AM

This link gives the provinence of the song succinctly
3 Score&10


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Willa
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 10:51 AM

There's a ready made chorus in your post for one of your 'ull songs, Geoff


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Tig
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 06:20 PM

I suppose you could make it correct and singable by making the first line of that verse

February's night was such a sight AS never seen before

However this would probably confuse people - like the new chorus to Punch and Judy man!


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 29 Apr 08 - 06:32 PM

provenance I knew that


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 03:37 AM

Photo received.
Thanks Geoff.
keith.


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 08:54 AM

I can not make out what is portrayed in the relief above the inscriptions.
Can you help again Geoff?


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 09:18 AM

Thanks, Geoff, for the photo!

Looks like a difficult marker to photograph -- you did a great job at getting the epitaph at the he right angle to help in reading it. Complicated getting the sun, etc. to cooperate!

Did you take a closeup of the storm-tossed ship in the tympanum?

What stone is the marker cut from? (It's hard to tell from the photo.)
Whatever it is, it seems to be holding up well to acid rain, pollutions, and the weathering of years.

There's a lovely little cemetery just north of Bath, Maine (USA) with a number of marble markers with very high relief carvings of sailing ships. I was first in that cemetery in the late 1980s and then was in the area again in the '90s. I was appalled by the damage done by acid rain in less than 10 years -- it was as if the markers were melting and the detail of the rigging, etc. was being lost.

Linn


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 10:17 AM

Hi Keith, I guess Bat Goddess, in the post below your last, has given us the word for that feature of a gravestone about which you are enquiring - and from the well informed things that she told me in her PM she is certain to be right -thanks Linn, we can never have too many words. The tympanum shows a storm tossed ship with wrecked sails as Linn describes. I am not sure of the stone involved because I was not looking with your thanatolitholgist's eye Linn but from memory I would guess limestone. I will go and have a look next time I am over that way.I have sent a close up of the tympanum to the two of you and to stallion -I hope you enjoy the e-mail a-trois. Geoff


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 30 Apr 08 - 07:28 PM

Hi, Geoff!

Haven't received the yet -- I've spent the day with Curmudgeon at the local hospital trying to find out why his foot was so painful, so been away from Mudcat and email.

Hey, Stallion! Didn't know you had an interest in matters thanatolithological!

Linn


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Willa
Date: 01 May 08 - 05:46 PM

I guess maybe Stallion didn't know that either!


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: janemick
Date: 18 Dec 10 - 05:02 PM

I would love to get hold of a copy of the photo of the grave of the '3 Score and 10' sailor, as we are trying to get together a show about the north sea herring fishery, including pictures. Can anyone let me have a contact (email or phone) for the Geoff Lawes who posted that he had a photo so I can get in touch? Thanks, Jane


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 01:09 AM

Janemick,

You could try sending him a PM. He is a Mudcat member and if he is still looking in on Mudcat, should reply.


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 07:48 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: Rozza
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 02:02 PM

I put a note about the fate of William Delf on the other recent thread on "Threescore and Ten"


A note to Threescore and Ten


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GUEST,Susie
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:07 PM

If it's weathered, make a rubbing - it's amazing what detail comes out from otherwise illegible tombstones.


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: peregrina
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:18 PM

Three Score and Ten sung by... Three Score and Ten!

at the Yorkshire Garland site-- words, notes, music, recording:
here


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Subject: RE: 3 Score and 10 -Grave found in Hull
From: GUEST,SteveG
Date: 19 Dec 10 - 05:51 PM

Geoff's photos should be on there as well, Mary.


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