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Lyr/Tune Req: Sir Simon the King

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Lyr Req: Old Sir Simon the King (9)


smiilye@hotmail.com 22 May 99 - 12:55 AM
22 May 99 - 01:22 PM
Penny S. 23 May 99 - 01:13 PM
Ian 24 May 99 - 08:40 AM
danl 24 May 99 - 10:07 AM
IanC 25 Aug 04 - 12:33 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Aug 04 - 12:47 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Aug 04 - 01:17 PM
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Subject: Sir Simon
From: smiilye@hotmail.com
Date: 22 May 99 - 12:55 AM

Searching for any information on the folk song "Sir Simon the King", popular in England around the late 1600's early 1700's. Lyrics, tune, background would be highly appreciated. Thank you! (Email me) P.S. (If it helps...) I have different lyrics that go to the tune/rhythm of the song:
"A trifling song you shall here,
Begun with a trifle and ended:
All trifling people draw near,
And I shall be nobly attended."


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Subject: RE: Sir Simon
From:
Date: 22 May 99 - 01:22 PM

It's in the Percy Folio MS and Pills to Purge Melancholy


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Subject: Tune Add: OLD SIR SIMON THE KING
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 May 99 - 01:13 PM

The tune is here, at the abc site. (click)
  X:2
T:OLD SIR SIMON THE KING
C:Trad.
S:Offord MSS % from Offord manuscript
N:see also Playford % notes
M:9/8
R:SJ % slip jig
Q:C3=120 % tempo
Z:originally in C % transcription notes
K:G
D|GFG GAG G2D|GFG GAG F2D|EFE EFE EFG|A2G F2E D2:|
D|GAG GAB d2D|GAG GAB c2D|[1 EFE EFE EFG|A2G F2E D2:|\
M:12/8 % change meter for a bar
[2 E2E EFE E2E EFG|\
M:9/8 % change back again
A2G F2E D2|]


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Subject: RE: Sir Simon
From: Ian
Date: 24 May 99 - 08:40 AM

There is a version on one of my Albion Band LPs. Sorry, I've forgotten which one.

Ian


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Subject: RE: Sir Simon
From: danl
Date: 24 May 99 - 10:07 AM

dont know the song at all, but i love your lyrics! are there any more?


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Subject: Lyr Add: GRIST GROUND AT LAST/FROLICK IN THE MILL
From: IanC
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:33 PM

I'm wondering if this is the best name for the song, since it seems to be based on what is apparently a floating chorus.

Here's a version of a song with the same chorus from the Bodleian site, dated between 1684 and 1686.

I've translated it below.

GRIST GROUND AT LAST
or
THE FROLICK IN THE MILL

Printed for J Clark, W Thackeray and T Passinger

Millers that grind each pretty lasses grist,
Consider now how many you have kist:
And see if any with kind Molly can
Compare: if not, pray all from hence begone.
Yet stay and hear the song, 'tis rare and new;
And millers know such things are often true.
Tune of, Give ear a while, &c. or Winchester Wedding.


Give ear a while to my ditty,
All you that intend to be merry
I'll sing you a song that's witty,
Of which you will never be weary.
The matter I plain must tell ye,
Is of a conceit refined,
The pretty device of Molly,
Who has too often been kind:
Says old Symon the King,
Says old Symon the King,
With a threadbare cloak and a mamsy nose
Sing hey ding, ding, a ding, ding.


She went to the mill with her grist,
To see it most neatly ground,
But found the miller i' th' mill,
For his stones they would not go round.
He tryed and he tryed again,
But he could not make them obey;
His labour he lost in vain,
And could not tell what to say:

She takes the matter in hand
As loath of any delay,
Whilst the miller amazed did stand,
She thus unto him did say:
Come hoist up the canvas with speed,
And I'll make the stones go round;
The cogs from cobwebs once freed,
My grist will quickly be ground:

When strait the sails were drawn up,
Exposed to the weather and wind;
When as the miller a top,
The weather bein right did find,
Yet found the motion but small,
Which made him begin to misdoubt;
That he would do nothing at all,
For Molly began to pout:

But urging her grist to be ground,
The fault she long searched to know,
And the wise of the mill she found,
For why? the stones were too low;
Then gently she moved the beam,
And setl'd them in their place,
When round the sails did skim,
And her grist was ground apace:

More sacks on the mill was the cry,
Let's now work and save the wind;
But at last the miller lay by,
He had no more grist to grind:
But glad was to find one so witty
To help him out at a dead lift,
Swearing that none so merry
had e're set his mill adrift:

Her grist she had tole-free away,
& might have the like when she pleas'd
For the miller he ne'er said her nay,
Once his labour was mightily eas'd:
The lasses that came to the mill,
They envied our Molly 'tis true;
But let them lay all what they will,
Molly's the best of the crew:

F I N I S


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Subject: RE: Sir Simon the King
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:47 PM

Better known as "Old Simon the King." See thread 51775 for the version s from "Pills to Purge...." and discussion.
Thread 51775: Old Simon


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Subject: RE: Sir Simon the King
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:17 PM

In Chappell, "Popular Music of the Olden Time," vol. 2, Notes to the song "Old Sir Simon the King":

In "Hans Beer-pot, his invisible Comedie of See me and see me not (4to., 1618), Cornelius says that gentlemen did not formerly avow drunkenness, but "now beggars say they are drunk like gentlemen." He adds that he has heard "an old fantastique rime:"
"Gentlemen are sicke, and Parsons ill at ease,
But serving men are drunke, and all have one disease."

These lines are a paraphrase of the two following in "Old Sir Simon:"-
My hostess was sick of the mumps, the maid was ill at ease,
The tapster was drunk in his dumps; they were all of one disease."

Again in "The famous Historieof Fryer Bacon:"-
"Lawyers they are sicke, and Fryers are ill at ease,
But por men they are drunke, and all is one disease."

"I am informed by Mr. Payne Collier that Fryer Bacon was printed soon after 1580,.... and these quotations increase the probability of Ritson's conjecture that the "hey, ding a ding," mentioned in Laneham's Letter [from Kennelworth] in 1575, was Old Sir Simon."
Chappell continues with other versions, mentioning "Sportive Wit, The Muses' Merriment," 1656, where the burden is quoted in a medley of songs:-
"Old Sir Simon the King
With a thread-bare coat and a malmsey nose,
Sing heigh---"

From vol 1, p. 262-269, with several versions and music- Chappell says the tune is contained in Playford's "Musick's Recreation on the Lyre Viol, 1652.
Other songs were based on Old Simon, including "Ragged and torn, and true; or 'The Poor Man's Resolution," and "The Reformed Drinker" and the "Grist Ground at Last...." given above by IanC.


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