Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia

DigiTrad:
HIGH GERMANY
THE KING'S REQUEST MUST BE OBEYED
THE WARS OF GERMANY


Related threads:
(origins) Origin: High Germany (130)
Lyr Req: High Germany (Pentangle) (12)
Lyr Req: 'Oh, Woe Be To The Orders' (5)
Ulster Version High Germany (1)


trevek 07 May 08 - 06:45 AM
Jack Campin 07 May 08 - 09:18 AM
GUEST,Trev 07 May 08 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,KB Sans Kuki 12 May 08 - 04:19 PM
GUEST,Volgadon 12 May 08 - 05:11 PM
Jack Campin 12 May 08 - 07:12 PM
trevek 15 May 08 - 05:39 PM
trevek 15 May 08 - 05:45 PM
Snuffy 15 May 08 - 05:54 PM
GUEST 15 May 08 - 05:54 PM
trevek 15 May 08 - 06:04 PM
trevek 15 May 08 - 06:06 PM
Peace 15 May 08 - 07:33 PM
Anglo 16 May 08 - 12:13 AM
GUEST,Paul Burke 16 May 08 - 03:21 AM
Little Robyn 16 May 08 - 03:34 AM
Paul Burke 16 May 08 - 04:32 AM
trevek 16 May 08 - 02:27 PM
trevek 16 May 08 - 02:37 PM
GUEST,Volgadon 16 May 08 - 02:39 PM
Folk Form # 1 02 Jan 09 - 08:13 AM
Jack Campin 02 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM
Susanne (skw) 02 Jan 09 - 06:48 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:









Subject: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: trevek
Date: 07 May 08 - 06:45 AM

Hi, I'm currently living out in Poland and I'm reading about 16th/17th Century Scots settlers who lived in Poland/Germany/Prussia. Many of these settlers were merchants and established Scottish brotherhoods in some Polish towns.

Does anyone know any songs which might deal with this? The obvious one is "My Love's in Germany" but does anyone know others (lyrics and tunes would be nice).

Thanks.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:18 AM

"Mary Hamilton" is a story from St Petersburg if one of the competing historical explanations is right. Not quite Poland but near enough.

I once played "Roslin Castle" in a session and a Polish fiddler asked me "how on earth did you come to know that Polish tune?". If it was originally Polish they must have had it before 1740; if not, it seems to have been there for a long time anyway.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: GUEST,Trev
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:32 AM

Interesting. Well Scots were in Poland from about Wallace's time. Also a lot of soldiers and mercenaries during 30 years war etc.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: GUEST,KB Sans Kuki
Date: 12 May 08 - 04:19 PM

Green Hills of Tyrol? AKA Scottish Soldier


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 12 May 08 - 05:11 PM

Not exactly Scottish songs about any of hose places, but Mikhail Lermontov, one of Russia's greatest poets, was descended from Scottish mercenaries, the Learmonts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 12 May 08 - 07:12 PM

There are a few dance and march tunes from the 18th century wars in northern Europe that became popular in Scotland. There's a long complicated stepdance "Charles the Twelfth King of Sweden" that the RSCDS published - the tune is in a manuscript of about 1760, in the National Library of Scotland. I can go look for it if you really, really want it (it wasn't very exciting, as I remember it).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: trevek
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:39 PM

That would be nice, if it's no trouble.

Thing to remember that at certain points Poland was within Russia and Prussia.

Does anyone recognise this one?

Oh, woe unto these cruell wars
That ever they began!
For they have reft my native isle
Of many a pretty man.

First they took my brothers twain
Then wiled my love frae me:
Oh, woe unto these cruell wars
In low Germanie!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: lyric query: 'Low Germany?'
From: trevek
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:45 PM

Does anyone recognise this?

Oh, woe unto these cruell wars
That ever they began!
For they have reft my native isle
Of many a pretty man.

First they took my brothers twain
Then wiled my love frae me:
Oh, woe unto these cruell wars
In low Germanie!

Any ideas of a melody?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:54 PM

Trevek

High Germany is the name of the song where you'll find verses like that.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: lyric query: 'Low Germany?'
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 08 - 05:54 PM

Any ideas of a melody?

Whatever you wish. It's a poor parody of 'High Germany' and that fine tune would work.

Can't see why anyone would wish to propagate something that woefully bad mind...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: lyric query: 'Low Germany?'
From: trevek
Date: 15 May 08 - 06:04 PM

well, I have it from a 1902 book about Scots in Germany.

I believe there are two songs called High germany. Do they have the same tune?

Thanks for the help.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: trevek
Date: 15 May 08 - 06:06 PM

Thanks


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: lyric query: 'Low Germany?'
From: Peace
Date: 15 May 08 - 07:33 PM

You will locate the complete lyric at

Poems and Songs - Google Books Resultby Allan Cunningham - 1847 - 151 pages
... my native isle Of many a pretty man : For first they took my brethren twain, Then wiled my love frae me, Woe, woe unto the cruel wars In Low Germanic. ...
books.google.ca/books?id=vbQ0AAAAMAAJ...

I found that with a google of

"Then wiled my love frae me"

(Leave the quotation marks on.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: lyric query: 'Low Germany?'
From: Anglo
Date: 16 May 08 - 12:13 AM

This comes directly from an earlier thread started by the same questioner, and mudelves, they should perhaps be consolidated.

Guest's opinion, I suggest, should be consigned to the anonymous trash can. I see nothing poor in the poetry, or anything to suggest it''s a parody. But that's just my opinion.

I find, searching, the following, from A Comprehensive System of Modern Geography and History by William Pinnock:

Since the time of Charlemagne this country has also been divided into High and Low Germany. HIGH GERMANY comprehended Bohemia, Moravia, Austria, Suabia, Bavaria, the Palatinate of the Rhine, Franconia, Carinthia, Carniola, and Stiria; and formerly also Switzerland and the country of the Grisons. LOW GERMANY comprehended part of the Lower Rhine, Cologne, and Mentz; Westphalia, Hess,e Brunswick, Misnia, Lusatia, Upper and Lower Saxony, Mecklenburg, Lunenburg, Brandenburg and Pomerania.

I don't know enough about the historical foreign wars (which I tend to disdain, in good folksong tradition), but it seems to me more likely that Scots soldiers would be fighting in Lower, rather than Higher Germany. I would be happy to stand corrected.
    Threads combined and crosslinked.
    -Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: lyric query: 'Low Germany?'
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 16 May 08 - 03:21 AM

In the Thirty Years War (1618-1648), fighting spread from Bohemia (where the Elector Frederick, married to James I/VI's daughter Elizabeth, was installed by Protestants and removed a year later by the Catholic Emperor), all over Germany. Scots, English and Irish mercenaries were emplyed by all sides (there were several), often changing sides after or even during a battle.

Later, campaigns during the Nine Years War saw Marlborough conducting a brilliant campaign through both the Low Countries and Bavaria.

The song could refer to either (or both) of these wars, both high and low being appropriate.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: Little Robyn
Date: 16 May 08 - 03:34 AM

If Willie Reilly's your love's name then he's a hero of great fame
He and I have been in battle through many a long campaign
Through Italy and Russia, through Germany and Prussia
He was my loyal comrade in France and in Spain

From the Plains of Waterloo.
Robyn


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prus
From: Paul Burke
Date: 16 May 08 - 04:32 AM

Willie's travels are fairly unlikely for a British soldier, as the British Army didn't do any of the third line! It would be possible for someone on the "wrong" side though- I wonder if he was in the Legion Irlandaise? Though they didn't fight at Waterloo!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: trevek
Date: 16 May 08 - 02:27 PM

Thanks everyone. especially Peace.

The reference I have to the song is from Fischer's "Scots in Germany"(1902), and he links it (and "My luve's in Germany") to the wars in Sweden (30 year war?).

The text in the book is wonderful and I agree that GUEST's opinion is/was trash can worthy. It probably never occurred to them that it might have been a variant (or original).

Of course, like most books it doesn't have a tune to it! I'll just find one if I can.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: trevek
Date: 16 May 08 - 02:37 PM

Just read up on Cunningham and it seems he liked to create "old" ballads. Still, it didn't stop them being printed.

wikipedia says (so it MUST be true): "He was born at Keir, near Dalswinton, Dumfriesshire, and first worked as a stone mason's apprentice. His father was a neighbour of Robert Burns at Ellisland, and Allan with his brother James visited James Hogg, the "Ettrick shepherd", who became a friend to both. Cunninghams other brothers were the naval surgeon Peter Miller Cunningham (1789–1864) and the poet, Thomas Mounsey Cunningham (1776–1834).

Cunningham was apprenticed to a stonemason, but gave his leisure to reading and writing imitations of old Scottish ballads. Cunningham contributed some songs to Roche's Literary Recreations in 1807, and in 1809 he collected old ballads for Robert Hartley Cromek's Remains of Nithsdale and Galloway Song; he sent in, however, poems of his own, which the editor inserted, even though he may have suspected their real authorship. It gained for him the friendship of Walter Scott and Hogg."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 16 May 08 - 02:39 PM

Well, they did campaign in Italy. I think that rather than look for explanations such as the Legion Irlandaise, we should just assume that a bit of poetic licence was employed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 08:13 AM

"...established Scottish brotherhoods in some Polish towns."

What, exactly, does that mean?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prussia
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 08:46 AM

Trading companies, presumably.

Incidentally more recent scholarship has shown that Cunningham made up rather less than he had been accused of.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Scots songs about Poland/Germany/Prus
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 02 Jan 09 - 06:48 PM

Paul Burke, we're not necessarily talking about the British (or English) army. There were quite a few English or Scottish mercenaries around in Europe's armies, in the Thirty Years' War and also, I believe, in the Napoleonic Wars.

Trevek, Hamish Imlach claimed years ago (obviously ...) that the School of Scottish Studies was working on a study of precisely the scope you are looking for. I never heard anything about it again, but it might be worthwhile asking them. This should take you to their website.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 18 June 3:31 AM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.