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Money v Folk

Peace 07 May 08 - 02:24 PM
Richard Bridge 07 May 08 - 02:20 PM
*Laura* 07 May 08 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,Jonny Sunshine 07 May 08 - 02:02 PM
topical tom 07 May 08 - 01:58 PM
Dave the Gnome 07 May 08 - 01:43 PM
Peace 07 May 08 - 01:31 PM
WalterOtter 07 May 08 - 11:48 AM
Backwoodsman 07 May 08 - 11:47 AM
irishenglish 07 May 08 - 11:45 AM
Nick 07 May 08 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,Joe 07 May 08 - 10:49 AM
Peace 07 May 08 - 10:49 AM
treewind 07 May 08 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,Volgadon 07 May 08 - 10:45 AM
artbrooks 07 May 08 - 10:44 AM
Leadfingers 07 May 08 - 10:39 AM
GUEST,Trevek 07 May 08 - 10:34 AM
*Laura* 07 May 08 - 09:29 AM
Snuffy 07 May 08 - 09:26 AM
GUEST,The Observer 07 May 08 - 09:22 AM
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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:24 PM

The labourer is worthy of his/her hire. So pretend yer just paying for the performer's time. Hell, in the way-back days, people got fed and housed. Same thing today.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:20 PM

What is money? Is it a medium of exchange, a store of value, or a means of command?


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: *Laura*
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:11 PM

Dave - when parents sang songs to their kids and workers sang songs in fields and then the kids grew up and they sang the same songs to their kids etc etc

I'm not saying it hasn't been helped by professional singers but it existed and survived without people paying for it.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 07 May 08 - 02:02 PM

I doubt anyone goes into folk music for the money, but if you think no-one should be making money from folk, how exactly would you prevent them?


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: topical tom
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:58 PM

Aside from informal jams and singalongs I have always paid something to hear folk music and was more than glad to do it.In the sense that folk performers are paid I suppose they could be called professionals. God knows, money is welcome to all of us!My love of folk music is rooted in the fact that profit is not the be-all and end-all of the music; quality replaces unintelligible lyrics and special effects.
"What is folk music?" To paraphrase, "Ah, let me count the types"!


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:43 PM

*Laura*

"Would folk survive without professional singers and musicians?"

Of course it would. It DID for a long long time.


When was that then?

Cheers

Dave


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 08 - 01:31 PM

In some ways it's like feeding a stray cat. If you do, it'll keep coming back. That usually OK, but on occasion it will include banjo players, so be warned.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: WalterOtter
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:48 AM

"There ain't no money in poetry, that's what makes the poet free" - Guy Clark


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:47 AM

"Should everything be reduced (or elevated) to a pub session where evryone brings their own beer and food."

taking your own beer and food to a pub session is pretty much guaranteed to result in the landlord's boot making violent contact with your arse, in my experience. And rightly so.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: irishenglish
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:45 AM

A flat rate to pay for folksingers? Cmon, you must be joking. It's free enterprise. If someone is really good, either as a singer or as an instrumentalist, word gets out, more seats get filled, a larger room or concert space then is needed, and then they are off. Your point sounds almost like a penalty against those that are naturally more gifted, or those who bring more to the table in terms of performance compared with someone who likes to sing one night a week with their guitar at some club or a pub. You see? Free enterprise. Maybe that person in the club gets better and better each week, learns more, and then word gets out, more seats get filled, a larger room or concert space is then needed, and so on! I don't care the genre of music, but if you suck, you suck, and an audience is going to reward you with no applause, and an empty hat passed around. If you are good, the hat's going to be overflowing on a good night, and you will know that you are doing something right, something people enjoy, and you'll be smiling because you know you are making a few bucks out of something you worked hard for.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Nick
Date: 07 May 08 - 11:24 AM

Another wind up thread, I sense.

But selling your labour is pretty basic to western capitalism. If the labour you have to sell is based on singing folk songs it seems reasonable to earn money from it. As reasonable as anything else.

Otherwise things like teaching people a language - or maths - or doing many things would also have no value.

People are not selling folk music they are selling their performance of it and that's what you are paying for - in the same way that if you sell services you are NOT selling the lamguage but profiting from it. And the basis of the system is as much as you can get for what you offer.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:49 AM

Speak to anyone who makes a living out of folk music, Premiership footballer wage packets do not spring to mind.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Peace
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:49 AM

Hell, no! Start by payin' them and next thing these greedy bastards will want a roof over their heads, too. And food. And clothing. Sheesh. Where will it end?


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: treewind
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:46 AM

That's a contentious assumption buried in the thread title.

Anybody is entitled to be paid for doing anything if they are good enough and can find a market for it. Nobody's forced to pay. If it happens it happens - why does folk music have to be different from every other human activity in the universe in that some people think you're not allowed to do it for money?

Can you imagine asking the same about Jazz, or.... well, absolutely anything?

And by the way, folk music has had a lot of professional help in surviving. From the ancient bards and wandering minstrels to the publishers of 17th century broadsides to 19th century village bands to modern recording artists and your local ceilidh band - there was always somebody making some sort of part time or full time living or extra income out of it, and in doing so keeping it alive. Not to mention Child and others collecting songs and publishing books. Mostly people didn't get very rich that way, but certainly some were in the business of selling something or getting paid for their efforts where appropriate.

There can't be any other kind of music in the world that has this problem.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:45 AM

Where did the silly idea come from that folk music can't be played for profit?


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: artbrooks
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:44 AM

Gee...and what IS folk music, anyway?


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:39 AM

I make SOME money out of what I call folk - But what I get paid to do may NOT fit YOUR definition .


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: GUEST,Trevek
Date: 07 May 08 - 10:34 AM

Well, I suppose a lot of the people who wrote tunes and lyrics were professional in their day, so you could say people always have made money from folk.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: *Laura*
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:29 AM

"Would folk survive without professional singers and musicians?"

Of course it would. It DID for a long long time.


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Subject: RE: Money v Folk
From: Snuffy
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:26 AM

Yes


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Subject: Money v Folk
From: GUEST,The Observer
Date: 07 May 08 - 09:22 AM

Again, I'm interested. Should anyone be making money out of Folk? And if so how much would be reasonable? Would Folk survive without professional singers and musicians? If artists are to be paid should there be a flat rate for all? Or should the best and most popular be paid more than the less popular? And if popularity is the guage for payment when does the cost preclude the artist from carrying the folk tag?

Has the festival scene lost its way? Should everything be reduced (or elevated) to a pub session where evryone brings their own beer and food. Do folkies want to have their music recognised by the general public or should it remain an underground movement, a home for rebels and the chattering classes (not meant to be pejorative in this case - honest)?


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