Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: GUEST,Warwick Slade Date: 12 May 08 - 09:52 AM Don't worry about it Dave. If you don't like it don't go. It really is that simple.I love malt whisky but hate gin so I do not bother to analyze why I just don't drink gin. Singalongs are just a social events where like minded people do what they enjoy doing together so, as I said, if you are not of that mind do something else, like write to Mudcat. You could argue 'why to people write to Mudcat which is boring rather than listen to the much more intellectual discussions on Radio 4' It's all to do with being a part of something. |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: Jassplayer Date: 12 May 08 - 08:39 AM We have scheduled nine slots for sing-arounds at this year's fetsival. We have the advantage of the use of a very comfortable venue right down the street from the main performance areas that has a fireplace and living room feel and we're putting a different performer in charge of the proceedings for an hour each, thus giving some formal aegis to what we hope will also occur spontaneously at different times and places throughout the four-day festival. It's one way to address the inherent anomaly in *performance* of *folk music.* The Taunton River Folk festival, Oct. 10-13, 2008 |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: GUEST,Phil at work Date: 12 May 08 - 08:26 AM Now what allows you the comfort of being relaxed and still perform well? It comes in a glass. As opposed to being so relaxed there is no incentive to perform well? See above! |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: Mr Red Date: 12 May 08 - 08:03 AM methinks this is a personal perception. If you percieve it so then a singaround or from the stage can be daunting. If you are relaxed about it, then it is less daunting. Now what allows you the comfort of being relaxed and still perform well? As opposed to being so relaxed there is no incentive to perform well? discuss......... |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: Ross Campbell Date: 12 May 08 - 04:49 AM "the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness". Or as Ron Baxter (notorious Worst Singer in the World at Fyldes past, songwriter extraordinaire, and MC of some of the best singarounds) would say "If a thing's worth doing well, it's worth doing badly!" Ross |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: mg Date: 12 May 08 - 12:20 AM I like the music that can be produced by a group of good singers. I am so shallow though that unless the music is pretty good most of the time, or at least some of the time, it isn't worth it to me for the other aspects...I would rather have a potluck or a chitchat and skip the music if that is the case. We could still bond however. My ears have to be happy. Especially now that I have almost no music except for a couple of music camps a year. I want it to be really really good and no blue books please. mg |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: Tootler Date: 11 May 08 - 06:34 PM foggers wrote; My OH has a lovely baritone voice but he is convinced that he cannot sing, because he was told this for years. My experience as well. What changed it for me was going to an option session at an early music summer school for "those who thought they couldn't sing" and finding I could sing, though I was still not a bit confident. Later that year I found a weekend workshop called "Singing for the tone deaf". It was brilliant! The tutor was very encouraging and he used piano accompaniment to adapt to the pitch of the singers so you could find a pitch that was comfortable. If he felt the pitch was wrong for the group he would just transpose into another key until he found one that suited the group so that we were able to find our voice. It took me another three years to attempt to sing at a singaround. I used to just play tunes, but I tried singing a song one time and nobody seemed to wince or look as if anything was wrong, so I carried on. I have found people to be encouraging for the most part. Remarks like "I like the songs you sing" or "You sang that one well" and an overheard "I do like Geoff's voice" during the break have helped my confidence no end. I got "you sang that one well tonight, Geoff" last night which I much appreciated. One very useful tip I got from the singing weekend was to use an instrument to find out where your voice lay. I used my electronic keyboard and simply played single notes and sang them back until I had found the highest and lowest note I could comfortably sing. If you know where your voice lies, it helps tremendously. Geoff |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: foggers Date: 11 May 08 - 12:17 PM Communal singing is probably one of the oldest forms of human activity, (apart from the more obvious biological habits, that is!!) for recreation and building and sharing identity and relationships. I have experienced what feels like an almost primal shiver when something special happens between people at a singaround. And the point made about the negative impact of "Broadcast Quality" is an excellent one. My OH has a lovely baritone voice but he is convinced that he cannot sing, because he was told this for years. Going to singarounds is a gentle and supportive way to help people find their voice, and to have fun sharing, learning and harmonising together. I agree all the points about needing a skilful MC in order to get the balance right, but singarounds can be very special indeed. |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: Rumncoke Date: 11 May 08 - 11:16 AM With 300 songs and a failing memory I often find that in a singaround I realise that a song I have not sung in public for 20 years will just fit with the flow of the circle and then - assuming I can find it in my book which now serves as backup memory - I find I am singing a song that other people also suddenly remember or I see that it is something new for at least one or two. I am often asked to write out words or give a source. I do smile when I am asked who recorded it, or what disc it is on. I seem doomed to hear songs only live - this pc is inhabited by a malevolent spirit which blocks internet access to such things - or it might be the DH, who does not like my music and singing. I can't use it to watch DVDs either, as it will play the background music but not the dialogue. |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: Charley Noble Date: 10 May 08 - 08:47 PM In a mature singaround it's really more than the songs, it's the other singers (and instrumentalists) as well. I find it interesting when a particular person is leading a new song, how that song fits in with their repertoire or how it fits in with what others have just sung. There are all kinds of choices, some deliberate (I'm going to sing my song anyway), some responsive (that song reminds me of...), some a mixture of both. Some prefer to sing the same songs over and over again. Some want to try new songs that they don't quite know very well. Either can be irritating or a delight. It depends on your expectations. I do like to see song circle members grow, take flight so to speak, and confound their "mentors" with what they've learned or created. Cheerily, Charley Noble, who frequents the Press Room gathering in Portsmouth, NH |
Subject: RE: Why do people like singarounds? From: Acorn4 Date: 10 May 08 - 08:14 PM I do both singarounds and gigs - I've sold more CDs at singarounds than at gigs. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 10 May 08 - 01:28 PM Another thing, theres no real pressure at singarounds. Nowadays I do more floorspots than paid gigs. I have a gig in week or two - and I really am thinking - what on earth shall I do that won't bore them all stupid, I don't want to do all the same old rubbish. Whereas anybody can be fresh and simulating for two or three numbers. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Phil Edwards Date: 10 May 08 - 12:47 PM Sing-a-round less eyes and less directly looking at you. But more eyes belonging to respected (sometimes highly respected) fellow performers, looking at you more concentratedly. In my experience as a floor singer and a singaround participant, singarounds are more challenging. When they go well they're wonderful, but the bar's higher - you can't just wander along and busk it. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Greenacres Date: 10 May 08 - 11:29 AM Like a lot of others on this thread, I think singarounds are what it's all about - singing, songs, learning, exchange, community, continuity, change, belonging, expanding, sharing, bonding. You can't beat a good singaround and you can't fail to learn something good in a 'bad' one. Songbooks and library resources are (very valuable) contributors to the real thing. Guest performers and recordings fuel, perpetuate and inspire it. Me, I love and am grateful for 'em all! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Mr Red Date: 10 May 08 - 10:35 AM sing-a-rounds are less intimidating for me. With an audience, depending on context, you generally have all eyes on you. Sing-a-round less eyes and less directly looking at you. Those eyes are a pressure. You either need it or you feel it negatively. Different strokes for different folks. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: VirginiaTam Date: 10 May 08 - 08:51 AM Concerts are good if you are into voyeurism. I like the intimacy of a singaraound and those shivery moments of vocal and instrumental orgy. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Roger the Skiffler Date: 10 May 08 - 04:24 AM On our recent holiday on the Isle of Wight we dropped in on the Singaround session at the Dairyman's daughter to see Steve Parkes & friends. We were impressed by the unobtrusive way they took turns and the wide range of styles and abilities represented: a ,definition of companionship, I guess. My minders were impressed that I restrained myself from joining in: they had their Tazers ready for nothing! RtS |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: the lemonade lady Date: 10 May 08 - 04:17 AM I would love to come up to North Yorkshire. I'll take you up on the offer when the festival season has finished; October time. I would have gone into the room with the singers, but the bits of paper put me off a bit. I like spontaneity with a jolly good chorus. Anyway I was actually with a group of people who aren't ready for this serious side of 'club' singing. Sal |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Acorn4 Date: 09 May 08 - 06:57 PM Kev -that's fine - go ahead. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Nick Date: 09 May 08 - 06:00 PM >>I maintain... us and them. In a pub with three people in the main part of the pub (including you) YOU were the them they were the US. It was you who didn't engage (to their loss or yours) and to your regret Very hard. Come up to North Yorkshire (PM me before you come) and we'll make you welcome I went to a club in Lymm before it closed which took itself away into a room and prided itself on its singing and its welcoming and it didn't work for me as I felt such an outsider that I felt unwelcome |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: the lemonade lady Date: 09 May 08 - 05:17 PM 'Thus they do not want to annoy the people in the main room with starts and stops and sight-reading-along-with stuff. They are all learning new songs and having a good experience, but they are sensitive that someone in the pub for a drink and nosh and chat with friends don't need to hear all their humble imperfection. Sounds like they were being polite not rude. ' Nope... the pub was empty. Maybe 2 people sitting at the far end but otherwise it was empty. I maintain... us and them. 'Singarounds are first and foremost about joining in. That's what makes them so enjoyable.' Absolutely! Sal |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Kev The Clogs Date: 09 May 08 - 05:06 PM Acorn4, that's a great bit of work there!! Hunting around now to find a Midi of the El Dorado tune - bet I'll recognise it when I hear it!!! I might see if I can learn that if you don't mind. Kev |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Acorn4 Date: 09 May 08 - 03:53 PM ...Oh, it's to the tune of "El Dorado" |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Acorn4 Date: 09 May 08 - 03:51 PM I've posted this on a thread before, so sorry to those who've alredat seen it but it seemed pertinent here:- My New Song I learned to sing a brand new song Learned it well and felt so proud But all my dreams would turn to ashes When I went along to that singaround I practised hard, both night and day Memorised the words on every page It sounded so good in the bathroom And now the world would be my stage As I went into that crowded room I felt wound up like a coiled spring But when I'd sat down in that circle I did a very stupid thing I sat in the only empty place Where the turn to sing had just moved past Now I'd have to sit around for hours Oh woe is me ! Oh, damn and blast It started with a gruesome murder ballad Which ended on the gallows high But not till after 42 verses When it was done, I heaved a sigh Then some pissed up clown Started a sea shanty With a drunken chorus a dozen times or more By the time he'd reached the Bay of Biscay The clock had ticked another half an hour Then an intense young man with a Takamine Bared his soul to all in a self penned song All about a failed relationship It seemed an eternity till we moved on And several more painful dirges later When things had sunk to an all time low From under a seat appears a melodeon Just wind him up and off he'll go And then this bloke waltzes in and sits down He arrived at least two hours after me He must be up the organiser's backside 'Cos he gets to sing almost straight away And once again it was a marathon performance As despondency filled up the room Till someone did a Leonard Cohen song Just to lighten up the gloom And after what seemed an eternity My turn had come, take a deep breath Now is my chance for retribution I'll make sure I get my pound of flesh I'll make this song go on forever Stress every syllable and line I'll get my own back on those bastards That kept me waiting all that time I'll go on, slowly on I'll sing so loud I'll give them earache Let them know my time has come They can forget about the beer break As no-one's moving till I'm done And as for those who carry on talking Or crunching crisps at them I'll glare And as for going to the toilet I'll just say "don't you bloody dare" I'll make this song go on forever Stress every syllable and line I'll get my own back on those bastards That kept me waiting all that time I'll go on, slowly on and on and on…etc Having said that , the above is a worst case scenario, and I do, in fact, love singarounds - let's fact it, we've all got a bit of an ego otherwise we wouldn't want to perform! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Diva Date: 09 May 08 - 03:32 PM Because they are fun |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Tootler Date: 09 May 08 - 03:02 PM Singarounds are first and foremost about joining in. That's what makes them so enjoyable. It is also the major reason they are different from concerts. You are not forced to join in, but the MC at a singaround will usually ask you if you want to take your turn. Even if you don't want to or don't feel confident about singing when it's your turn, you can always join in the choruses. Someone said they prefer sessions because you can join in quietly if you are not very confident (or something like that). You can do the same with choruses. I also enjoy sessions because, like singarounds, they are about joining in. Both singarounds and sessions are social occasions where people get together to share a common interest. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: GUEST,wuzzle Date: 09 May 08 - 02:16 PM I think singarounds are really wonderful not only are there a great variety of singers out there but also a wealth of wonderful songs I do enjoy concerts, but it is so special to hear and see folk, sharing songs and having fun, if there is someone that sings out of tune listen to the words, and help them with the choruses it isn't long before they can hold a tune, and that in it's self has given them something special. lovely people in singarounds gave me the confidence to sing and write songs :-) (they didn,t throw me out, or run away screaming) and now we just have so much fun. and more fun and ..... Wuzzle on frans computer |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Marje Date: 09 May 08 - 01:38 PM I think the main reasons I like singarounds are: The opportunity to sing, both alone when it's my turn and with others when there's a chorus. The surprise element of not knowing who's going to turn up, and who's going to delight you with a great new song (or a great old song). The in-between-songs banter and crack - singing creates a bond among the singers, which fosters social contacts and friendships.There's also a chance to give and receive some informal feedback about the various songs and performances. All of this can, of course, fail to materialise at the very worst singarounds, but on most occasions I find I can tick off all three of the above benefits. Marje |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Mrs Scarecrow Date: 09 May 08 - 12:39 PM Singarounds are my favourite and I regularly miss concerts at festivals because |I am enjoying them so much and the quality is so good. Additionally if someone not very good is singing you know it is only going to last a few minutes If the concert you go to see is not good it carries on that way a lot longer. Sing arounds also provide an arena for songwriters such as myself to test out the reception to new songs. Strangely you do not always know which songs will prove popular and I certainly would not have continued with some of my songs but for the reception they got. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Lowden Jameswright Date: 09 May 08 - 10:59 AM I usually find singarounds enjoyable, interesting, and even entertaining (dirty word to some!) - and I remember years ago looking forward to seeing the "master" in concert, only to be seriously disappointed. Fortunately for him, my perception of his music/persona differs greatly from many thousands of others. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: MMario Date: 09 May 08 - 10:54 AM I agree with Phil Edwards that singing to an "audience" is easier then a sing-around. Though - for example - at a venue like the FSGW Getaway - there isn't much difference between a sing-around and the "concerts" - and for me, extremely intimidating! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: GUEST,pattyClink Date: 09 May 08 - 10:39 AM Ms Lemon, barge into that room and introduce yourself! People at a singaround are learning and sharing, not "performing". Thus they do not want to annoy the people in the main room with starts and stops and sight-reading-along-with stuff. They are all learning new songs and having a good experience, but they are sensitive that someone in the pub for a drink and nosh and chat with friends don't need to hear all their humble imperfection. Sounds like they were being polite not rude. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Phil Edwards Date: 09 May 08 - 09:36 AM Dunno, Mr Red - I've sung to an audience many more times than I've sung at singarounds, and I actually find it easier in some ways. Singarounds are more enjoyable, though. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Mr Red Date: 09 May 08 - 09:28 AM Does Mr Dave sing? If so where did he start? If not - case solved. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 09 May 08 - 09:16 AM I love singarounds for all the above reasons. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Nick Date: 09 May 08 - 08:57 AM "the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness." Is this being a happy idiot? Look at the happy idiot He doesn't give a damn I wish I was an idiot Oh god I think I am |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: the lemonade lady Date: 09 May 08 - 08:31 AM I intended to go to a shanty singaround last night in Devon. I arrived in the pub and found about half a dozen people gathering for the evening. They bought their drinks but left the main bar and shut themselves in a side room away from the public. I didn't go into the room because I felt they had deliberately excluded themselves from sharing their songs and I felt it had become an 'us and them' situation. I thought it anti-social and left for the pub I prefer anyway. These people were armed with song books and bits of paper and it was all so serious. Where's the fun in that? Get a life, I thought, and left! Sal |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Jack Blandiver Date: 09 May 08 - 04:35 AM the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness. Perfect! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Joe_F Date: 08 May 08 - 09:20 PM At the sings I am familiar with, you are allowed to pass when your turn comes, or ask someone else to lead a song. IMO, the ability to enjoy oneself at a low level of competence is a precious resource for happiness. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: GUEST,Dave Date: 08 May 08 - 05:02 PM Given the above, I shall certainly walk out if a fat and/or tone deaf woman attempts to sing Leon Rosselson's "Don't get married girls" Nah, I shall walk out if any woman sings it.... I might stay if a man tried it! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: WFDU - Ron Olesko Date: 08 May 08 - 05:00 PM I think it is another example of country differences. Here in the U.S., people enjoy both and do not think to compare the two. Sort of like asking if you prefer a spoon or a bowl - both please! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: GUEST,Dave Date: 08 May 08 - 04:44 PM Many thanks for all your thoughts. I certainly wasn't wanting to criticise anyone. Maybe I'll give them another try. But each to their own as has been said... Thanks, Dave |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Herga Kitty Date: 08 May 08 - 03:25 PM I agree with Lucy (Hawker) - and I'd be mortified if any singaround I ran matched Guest Dave's description. Many "professional" singers booked at festivals, who learned their craft at singarounds, are still happy to turn up, listen and join in when it's their turn. Kitty |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 May 08 - 03:16 PM if you suffer from being embarrassed - its not going to be your sort of night. on the other hnd, you could end up the star of the show. you could be ...Nancy! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Folknacious Date: 08 May 08 - 02:59 PM They can be social fun, but never confuse them with entertainment. They're not for people to listen to, but to join in with. Personally I prefer a good tune session to a singaround any day, because a) it's a lot easier to join in and learn something quietly when everybody is playing all at once and b) mostly everybody is playing all at once, which is even more inclusive social fun than sitting around waiting for your turn. Oh, and crap singing is far far worse and more embarrassing to sit through than somebody playing badly, buried in a tune-up. Make sense? |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 May 08 - 02:49 PM if you do musicianing as a job, its often a bit solitary. at a singaround you meet mates, hear their work in progress, have a chat about stuff, you meet new people. anyway what else are you going to do - watch UK Gold, listen to disembodied voices come out of the stereo, study for s degree in folk music, argue with people on mudcat who once owned a longplayer of Martin Carthy, or it could have been Cat Stevens - they're very similar; both play guitars |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: GUEST,Shimrod Date: 08 May 08 - 12:02 PM An interesting and moving post from 'Old Roger' (a bit of an antidote to my rather sour contribution above - but I am a curmudgeonly old git and just a little bit proud of it!). May the The Wolf Folk Club in Norfolk prosper and thrive! |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: GUEST,Russ Date: 08 May 08 - 11:58 AM I am a singer/musician but NOT a performer. I go to singarounds because, I am curious to know what other people are doing musically. I often enjoy what I hear. It is fun to show off. Russ (Permanent GUEST) |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Old Roger Date: 08 May 08 - 11:43 AM We have a strong singaround at The Wolf Folk Club in Norfolk. We normally have about 30 to perform with an audience of 40 or 50. The main thrust is encouragement to sing or play. We have some performing at professional level and some utter beginners. They do their bit for the community on a totally equal basis. My philosophy is summed up in this which I wrote recently to nervous but very capable melodeon player. STARTS>> Once upon a time, not so long ago people played and sang for their families, their friends and their communities. They had a sense of worth and self-esteem and a place in the community because their services were in demand and appreciated. Then came the radio and the recording industries. A double edged sword. It did as much damage as it did good. It brought us the best from all over the world, entertaining us, delighting us and teaching us something new. There arose from it a spectre which I call "Broadcast Quality" and that spectre has haunted everyone who has ever been tempted to perform in public. It created a new standard by which every performer would feel they would be measured. A standard so high that few could possibly attain it. People were now ashamed of their nakedness, disincentivised to perform or even to enjoy listening to Auntie Mabel and Uncle George doing their music hall party pieces like they used to. Ordinary people were out of a job. It is easier to switch on the telly or the radio or play a CD than to entertain ourselves and we don't have to suffer a second class performance. No longer do we need to struggle to learn to play an instrument or to memorise tunes or the words to a song. Commerce doesn't recommend it either. They are very happy to take over the menial tasks of entertaining you, all you have to do is pay, it's so easy, why bother. "Fast Music" and "Take Away" music was invented before "Fast food". Nobody has any reason to want to provide their own entertainment ever again. There are some other benefits to making music and self entertainment which never get talked about and which the worlds of commercial entertainment studiously avoid drawing our attention to. For instance, the importance of "Community" and getting together with other people. Sharing in endeavours. Sharing in pleasure and experience, Appreciating the richness of human variety and human creativity. Appreciation of the human story and the heroism of difficulties overcome. For instance, ****** who walks about with two sticks and comes every Wolf Folk Club meeting to play his guitar even though he has MS. He used to be a really good player until MS slowly and insidiously began robbing him of his capabilities. Everyone in the room appreciates his playing and singing but it is the absolute antithesis of "Broadcast Quality". So you see BQ isn't everything. Making mistakes and being nervous and struggling to achieve, are all part of the human story and the folk club is a place where the human story is told. It is a very interesting and engaging story. I like to create an environment where ordinary people can do their thing and be appreciated like they used to before radios were invented. Broadcast Quality is the enemy of that aspiration so I do not allow it to come in through the door. << We have guests on a different night to the singaround and don't mix the two. |
Subject: RE: Why d people like singarounds? From: Northerner Date: 08 May 08 - 11:41 AM Singarounds are a great place to go when you're learning your skills. You can try things out without worrying about how you compare to a paid guest. There are generally some experienced performers there that you can learn from. And people do move from being newcomers who start out in singarounds to being guests, paid performers. I started out in singarounds - and storyrounds. Now I've got some paid bookings. Diane |
Share Thread: |
Subject: | Help |
From: | |
Preview Automatic Linebreaks Make a link ("blue clicky") |