Fake Strad? - Circa 1780

Subject: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:01 AM

Following a spring clean a relative has unearthed an old 3/4 size violin she says is unwanted. It looks a very attractive little instrument, and inside are the following markings:

Antonius Stradiuarius Cremonent?is

Facebat Anno 1780

... followed by a trademark AS inside 2 circles with a cross

I have to assume that some long passed fiddle maker was either on the fiddle, on the booze, or just had a wicked sense of 18th century humour.

Is this instrument likely to be worth anything?

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:02 AM

oooops ..... "Faciebat Anno"

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:06 AM

"Cremonent?is"   I assume, that's "Cremonensis", or "from Cremona".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Paul Burke
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:09 AM

I wonder if it's the one my little sister used to have? Same inscription or near enough. That was a 3/4 too, so no good for reels or jigs, I'm afraid. Hers was probably 1920s Czech and quite a nice instrument.

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:10 AM

Sorry - it's "Cremonen?is" (no "t" but what looks like an uncrossed "f")

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:16 AM

That's what I thought. The "uncrossed f" is what's called a "medial s", a form of s normally used only in the middle of words, thus "medial". So "Cremonensis" is correct.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 May 08 - 02:04 PM

I was sorting out some old stuff and found a fiddle and a painting !
A Rembrandt and a Stradivarius - Trouble is Rembrandt made Crap fiddles and Stradivarius was a lousy painter !

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Silas
Date: 08 May 08 - 02:56 PM

Thank you tommy cooper

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Skivee
Date: 08 May 08 - 03:16 PM

Lowden, old boy, the fiddle's label is a fairly comman homage to Mr. Stradivari. The custom of putting the label in signified that the actual maker was tipping the cap to the man whose design significantly improved the instrument, not that somebody was trying to put over a spoof. There are hundreds of thousands, if not millions of other violins out in the cosmos that have similar labels.
The instrument probably isn't worth much except to a new student, but you should have a knowledgable person give an informed opinion.
There's no way for us to know what quality your student violin is over the intrawebs. It is likely to be at least more valuable than firewood.

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: GUEST,Mavs82
Date: 08 May 08 - 03:27 PM

Lowden Jameswright,

I also have a fiddle with a similar inscription, dated 1663. I had mine valued by a professional for insurance purposes and although it isn't a strad it is valuable - ish!

As skivee says, it is more paying homage to the great man than anything, however, some of these are very old and as a consequence quite valuable. I would suggest a professional valuation would be your best option however as an instrument maker myself I would be interested to see photo's if you have any?

[e-mail]

If you are interseted in comparing to mine I can send you some pics.

Mavs

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: treewind
Date: 08 May 08 - 03:47 PM

What Skivee said, plus it's worth noting that many makers deliberately copy Strads, Guarneris, Amatis etc. though if they are reputable enough they put their own name on the label. It's perfectly respectable to say it's a copy of a particular famous instrument (if it is...).

The violin is worth whatever it is worth, but the label doesn't make very much difference.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: BanjoRay
Date: 08 May 08 - 05:12 PM

Any body know if Stradivari ever put labels in his instruments?
Ray

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 08 May 08 - 05:26 PM

As Maevs82 noted, some of those with the homage label are decent quality and thus are worth something; excellent for beginners or occasional fiddler. Also check the bow- sometimes the bow is worth a lot more than the violin.
Some bows that sold very cheaply in the late 19th c mail order catalogues are very good and now expensive.

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 08 May 08 - 11:42 PM

I know someone (fairly famous in Aust Classical Music circles) who many years ago went overseas and made metal templates, and took thickness measurements of certain old famous violins. The copies (including on matched pair) he made are very good instruments. This was a fairly common practice in days gone by.

They were not intended to be 'fakes', but genuine sincere well meant attempts to reproduce the sound qualities of famous instruments.

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 May 08 - 01:45 AM

I found my fake Strad, stringless, bridgeless and lacking a soundpost, on a Portobello Road market stall for £20.
It has similar markings but the date of manufacture is entered as 1718.
I set it up at similar cost and took it to a music shop.
They said it was late C19 German and worth £700 to £800.

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: treewind
Date: 09 May 08 - 06:06 AM

Volin makers still make detailed copies, aided now by copious digital photos as well as measurement of the best old instruments.
I have a good friend in the next village who's a violin maker. He's offering an assortment of instruments many of which are such copies.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Fake Strad? - Circa 1780
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 May 08 - 08:10 AM

"late C19 German"

My dad's was quoted as a similar make. Hmmm, what's that in AUD$ now....