Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs

Subject: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Ed.
Date: 19 May 08 - 04:27 AM

Apparently Martin Carthy recorded a version of Searching for Lambs for a 1976 John Peel session. Does anyone know of any extant recordings of this? I'd love to hear his version.

Thanks,

Ed

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Newport Boy
Date: 19 May 08 - 05:04 AM

The Free Reed "Carthy Chronicles" (2001) lists this session under "those transmissions known still to exist".

This probably means only the BBC has it.

Phil

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 May 08 - 04:18 PM

Thanks Phil. I have the 'Carthy Chronicles' boxed set so was aware of that.

I doubt any amount of pleading on my part will make the BBC release it. I suppose I was wondering if anyone had taped it off the radio or some such...

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 19 May 08 - 11:11 PM

Ralphie might be able to confirm, from his time at the Beeb.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,KevBoyd
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:12 AM

I have a recording of this session. Martin's version is unaccompanied and uses the same tune and very similar words to the version recently recorded by Bella Hardy. I don't have the tape or the Carthy Chronicles booklet to hand but from memory I believe the other tracks on the session included "Worcestershire Wedding" and "Unfortunate Tailor". There may be another track too but I can't recall it at the moment.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:25 AM

Brigg Fair??

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:41 AM

Thanks for the info, Kev.

The other tracks (as per the link in my first post) were The Unfortunate Tailor, King Knapperty and Willie's Lady

Ed

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,KevBoyd
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 07:04 AM

Of course. I should have checked out the link before I replied.

Considering how many previously / subsequently unreleased songs he recorded for the BBC, it strikes me that a Carthy "Peel Sessions" album is well overdue, assuming that enough good quality versions of the recordings are still around.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 11:38 AM

My partner has decades worth of Peel's Sessions on audiocasstte. Another retirement project to get them on the harddrive.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 08:23 AM

sigh. his recording only date back to 1981. sorry

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:42 AM

I finally dug out the tape and transcribed the lyrics that Carthy sings. It's not much different to the usual versions:

"Searching For Lambs"

As I walked out one May morning, one May morning betimes
I overtook a fair young maid just as the sun did shine

How gloriously the sun do shine, how fragrant was the air
There's none but her and her alone among the lilies fair

What makes you stroll abroad so soon, your journey to pursue
Your pretty little feet they tread so sweet to strike off the morning dew

I'm going for to feed my father's flock, his young and tender lambs
That over hills and lonesome rock lamenting for their dams

How gloriously the sun do shine, how fragrant was the air
I'd rather rest on my true love's breast than any other where

For I am thine and thou art mine, none shall uncomfort thee
We'll join our hands in wedded banns and a-married we shall be

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 06:24 AM

Did MC then miss out the verse :

'O wait, O wait, you fair young maid,
And rest a moment here -
For there is none but you alone
That I do love so dear' ?

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 02:55 PM

I'd rather rest on my true love's breast.....

I might write a follow up this called - 'piss off! you're squashing my tits....!'

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:25 PM

Why don't you just ask Martin to sing it for you? he's very obliging.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,KevBoyd
Date: 14 Jan 09 - 07:05 AM

Byrn: Yes, he missed out that verse.

Steve: Yes, he is isn't he.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Kev Boyd
Date: 11 Mar 12 - 08:15 PM

I've now uploaded this entire Peel session to Soundcloud (better late than never!). Sound quality isn't 100% but it's listenable and you can download the file.

Find it here.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 06:24 AM

Excellent! Thanks very much, Kev.

As you say, the sound quality isn't brilliant but it's far better than nothing.

Thanks again,

Ed

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 07:08 AM

Braw. Thanks.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: pavane
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 10:26 AM

Was this song collected more than once? If not, then surely the words should be the same. I have only heard the version recorded by (the late) Tony Rose

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 11:43 AM

Pavane,

A note from Malcolm Douglas posted to folkinfo.org:

"Like The Death of Queen Jane, this was noted from Mrs. Sweet; at Somerton, Somerset, on the 2nd August 1906 and again on the 16th August 1907. Either Sharp has made rather more changes to her text that he says, and introduced a verse (fourth above) from somewhere else, or Mrs. Sweet sang the song rather differently on those two occasions. Maud Karpeles includes that verse in the set of the song printed in The Crystal Stream (1975) but not (confusingly) in the much more extensive Cecil Sharp's Collection of English Folk Songs (1974)."

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: pavane
Date: 12 Mar 12 - 03:26 PM

Thanks Ed - so only one source but two versions.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jul 15 - 07:18 PM

Here's the Traditional Ballad Index entry for this song:

Searching for Lambs

DESCRIPTION: A young man meets a girl and asks her where she is going. She is going to feed her father's "tender lambs." He begs her to stay with him. They court for long. (He hopes that) they marry.
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1905 (Reeves-Sharp)
KEYWORDS: sheep courting marriage love
FOUND IN: Britain(England) Ireland
REFERENCES (5 citations):
Sharp-100E 48, "Searching for Lambs" (1 text, 1 tune)
Reeves-Sharp 90, "Searching for Lambs" (1 text, a composite of five versions)
SHenry H548, p. 341, "One Morning Clear" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT 474, SRCHLAMB
ADDITIONAL: Maud Karpeles, _Folk Songs of Europe_, Oak, 1956, 1964, p. 43, "Searching for Lambs" (1 text, 1 tune)
ST LO09A (Partial)
Roud #576
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "Branded Lambs" [Laws O9] (theme)
NOTES: For the rather vexed relationship of this song with "Branded Lambs" [Laws O9], see the notes to that song. - RBW
Last updated in version 2.6
File: LO09A

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Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 07:20 AM

From the wonderful Mainly Norfolk site;

Bob Lewis sang Searching for Lambs on the 1995 Veteran CD When the May Is All in Bloom. John Howson commented in the album notes:

A.L. Lloyd suggests in Folk Song in England that this beautiful tune is the kind that owes its form to the mingling of the art of the peasantry and the art of the townsfolk. It was a great favourite of Cecil Sharp and in Somerset he collected five versions between 1904 and 1909. He included it in a number of publications, some with piano accompaniment, and as such it was one of his chosen 'English folk songs' which became popular as a drawing-room song: It also appears in Novello's Schools Series which was compiled by Sharp and Baring-Gould in 1906 and in fact Bob learned it at school when he was 12 or 13 from a master who was interested in folk songs.

References to the song are infrequent and most published versions seem to be one of Sharp's, although Hammond did note down three versions in Dorset under the title Under the Moon Shines Bright and there is a text (1934) in Sam Henry's Songs of the People called One Morning Clear but the source is said to be 'not given' and although it has several similar lines it is a much fuller song.

Searching for Lambs should not be confused with Searching for Young Lambs [Roud 1437; Laws O9] which has been frequently collected, notably from George Spicer in Sussex.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 02:29 PM

Having looked now at all of the extant versions, it looks like Martin's text is collated like many others from those collected by Sharp. These comprise the bulk of the versions. There appears to be 5 stock stanzas and then 3 or 4 more, unique to single versions, mostly garbled. The 4 Sharp texts with tunes (others tune only) are given in Karpeles, 'Cecil Sharp's collection of English Folk Songs' from Mrs Sweet, James Bishop, Mrs Bray and Susan Williams. Vol 1 p373 onwards.

Marina Russel's version (Dorset) only has 2 verses (a third from other songs) and Sam Dawe's version has the 3 stock starting verses. Both of these from the Hammond Collection. The Full English also gives some versions of 'Searching for Young Lambs' among these which I will try to get put right shortly.

The Sam Henry version is probably close to the original if not the original itself. It is very flowery and most likely comes from the pleasure gardens of the 18thc. Sam may have got it from one of those 18thc songsters published with the tunes. It is interesting to note that Henry's verses are double as are 2 of Sharp's versions. This version has the first 3 verses of the English versions and then goes off on a flight of fancy with another 7 verses of the same ilk.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 02:39 PM

I ought to add that apart from the Henry version all of these are viewable on the Full English website.

Subject: RE: Martin Carthy: Searching for Lambs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Jul 15 - 02:41 PM

Go to the site, click on 'advanced search', in the box put the Roud number 576 and all of them should come up along with a few 1437s.