willie of the winesbury

Subject: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 May 08 - 03:36 PM

version her without any melody accompaniment,specially for Walkaboutverse,who doesnt agree with chordal accompaniment for traditional music.http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=1889&Path=willieofwinsbury2.mp3

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:26 PM

It works because you can tell a story, which is what counts with Child ballads.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:29 PM

version her without any melody accompaniment

So the Concertina wasn't part of it???? Please

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:34 PM

Derek and Hazel Serjeant did a wonderful version of this song.

G

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:36 PM

I think that melody accompaniment isn't the same thing as instrumental accompaniment.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Def Shepard
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:39 PM

Yet another anonomice Guest says,So the Concertina wasn't part of it???? Please

Me thinks someone is deliberately being obtuse

Once more, Captain, a great rendition of the song!

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Jeri
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:49 PM

He possibly meant 'chordal' accompaniment since there most definitely is melody and instrumental (as well as harmony) accompaniment in the bit I listened to.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Betsy
Date: 22 May 08 - 06:42 PM

Badly sung - this song has fucked-up more singarounds than I care to remember . You may say lots of other songs badly sung etc., etc. could have the same effect, but this wonderful song tops them all.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 08 - 04:48 AM

Betsy :I think it is a great song.I would not have attempted singing this song when I first started singing.
In the same way I wouldnt have attempted a five part reel when I first started the concertina.
This is why workshops are needed,to offer singers help,in improving their performances,to help them with difficult and challenging songs.
unfortunately if singers dont go,they cant be helped.it also might help if they listened to my version,which although it is not perfect,[I can probably improve on what I have done] ,wouldnt be a bad guideline for aspiring singers .Dick Miles

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 May 08 - 05:01 AM

A grand bit of singing and excellent concertina I'd say.

Tony Capstick used to do a good version of this. Is it in an odd time signature?

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: GUEST,Edthefolkie
Date: 23 May 08 - 06:10 AM

It's a wonderful song.

Richard Thompson's live version (in the box set) is also wonderful - I was playing it in the car & it made me a bit tearful to be honest. I think it's the story which gets you, as with all the best songs, but in this performance there's the tune's association with "Farewell Farewell" and Jeannie Franklin.

Did Tony Capstick really perform it? Good stuff. Tony was great, I'm just sorry I never heard his Radio Sheffield shows although I gather they got a bit "far out" towards the end.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 08 - 07:31 AM

Les ,I wouldnt know what time signature I do it in.Ireckon Iam altering the timing in different verses,thats one of the advantages of a chordal type accompaniment [imo]its easier [for me anyway]to pull the song about, than if I was playing just melody in the way walksabout verse suggests.
Ihave another version of this which Features the headless concertina player which I will shortly be putting on you tube.http://www.dickmiles.com

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 23 May 08 - 08:59 AM

Tony Capstick is his prime did a great and gripping version of this song.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 23 May 08 - 09:09 AM

For me the best version of this song (by a fair number of Country Miles) is Leonard and Squires from the album "Broken Down Gentlemen")

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 08 - 09:39 AM

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=C0zAr1t6nTE heres another version.http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=9uNn2TDDru0

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 May 08 - 01:06 PM

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqdFGgPPAc&feature=related

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 23 May 08 - 02:38 PM

Wexford Traveller Mary McGrath, sings it under the title Johnny Barden, on new(ish)ly re-released 'Songs of the Irish Travellers'.
A superb piece of singing of an equally superb version - best I've ever heard.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 May 08 - 12:23 PM

I really like your version, Dick. What tune is that? It makes an interesting change from the Fause Foudrage tune that everyone else uses.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 May 08 - 12:30 PM

the tune was originally from another Child ballad, that I believe Andy Irvine put to the words.I will find out for you over the next few days.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 24 May 08 - 12:53 PM

That sounds like Fause Foodrage - in which case, I like the way you've altered it.

What tune would we be using if Andy Irvine had got the right page?

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 08 - 05:55 AM

I learned the song from Paddy Butcher,Elmswell Suffolk,he used to accompany it on guitar.
there are other recordings with concertina,Steve Turner, Tony Rose,using a different tune.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 25 May 08 - 02:46 PM

John Goodluck (ex-Ipswich folk club & Radio Orwell presenter)does a fine version on one of his solo albums (I think it's 'The Suffolk Miracle).

Now, where's my cookie gone?

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 25 May 08 - 02:47 PM

Ah, it's back.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 May 08 - 02:55 PM

Not The Suffolk Miracle which is about a dead lover returning from the grave - fairly popular with traditional singers in Ireland as 'The Holland Handkerchief'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 08 - 02:59 PM

John Goodluck was a friend of Paddy Butchers,and learned it from him as well.
both he and Paddy played in a band called Trunkles.Dick Miles.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 25 May 08 - 04:36 PM

Dick Gaughan tells the tale of when he was singing his version to an audience of Merseyside dockers, after the verse:

O A will mairry yer dochter Janet
By the truth o my richt haun
An I will mairry yer dochter Janet
But the de'il tak aa yer laun

they all stood up and cheered at Willie putting the king in his place.

Jim Eldon calls his version High Castle Wall. When questioned about this, he replied that he didn't like to call it Willie (or whoever) of Wherever because no name is mentioned.

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 May 08 - 04:41 PM

Diane,
More likely that they'd just got the news that Everton had finally won a match!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: GUEST,jim mac farland
Date: 26 May 08 - 04:30 AM

another version can be heard from the singing of Robert Cinnamond and he calls it "Young John from the Isle of Man"

last verse
"Now fill your glasses to the brim
Drink a health to the country
Drink a health to John from the Isle of Man
And to Lady Winesbury"

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 26 May 08 - 04:34 AM

My version is the Tony Rose one and it's called 'Tom the Barber.'

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 26 May 08 - 07:03 AM

How could Merseyside dockers possibly understand what Dick was singing? - come on....

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 May 08 - 01:03 PM

http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=iU9Hhsxy-kM
it could be argued that donovan,despite missing many verses out introduced the song to many people who would not have otherwise heard it.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 May 08 - 05:25 AM

"How could Merseyside dockers possibly understand what Dick was singing? - come on..."
You can still get phrase-books in liverpool you know
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 May 08 - 05:27 AM

hereis agood version from Anne Briggs http://www.last.fm/music/Anne+Briggs/_/Willie+O+Winsbury

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 May 08 - 05:29 AM

http://www.last.fm/music/Anne+Briggs/_/Willie+O+Winsbury

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 May 08 - 09:18 AM

Subject: RE: willie of the winesbury
From: Jeri - PM
Date: 22 May 08 - 04:49 PM

He possibly meant 'chordal' accompaniment since there most definitely is melody and instrumental (as well as harmony) accompaniment in the bit I listened to.
There is absolutely no single line melody accompaniment in my version,it is either harmony or chords.WALKABOUTS VERSE was saying that traditional songs should only be accompanied by single line melody.http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=C0zAr1t6nTE