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Old folk pub in Widnes?

Big Tim 23 May 08 - 04:28 PM
GUEST,geoff 23 May 08 - 06:15 PM
Big Tim 24 May 08 - 01:12 AM
Marilyn 24 May 08 - 03:16 AM
Big Tim 24 May 08 - 04:00 AM
Fred McCormick 24 May 08 - 05:01 AM
Big Tim 24 May 08 - 09:43 AM
Fred McCormick 24 May 08 - 11:17 AM
Big Tim 24 May 08 - 03:19 PM
Fred McCormick 25 May 08 - 04:47 AM
GUEST,Gina 02 Jun 08 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick (cookieless and Pennyless) 03 Jun 08 - 04:36 AM
GUEST,Gina 03 Jun 08 - 09:19 AM
Fred McCormick 04 Jun 08 - 04:44 AM
Mo the caller 04 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM
Fred McCormick 04 Jun 08 - 09:16 AM
GUEST,Gina 04 Jun 08 - 10:13 AM
Fred McCormick 04 Jun 08 - 11:01 AM
GUEST,Geoff Speed 04 Jun 08 - 11:34 AM
Marilyn 04 Jun 08 - 02:24 PM
Big Tim 05 Jun 08 - 04:52 AM
Fred McCormick 05 Jun 08 - 05:53 AM
GUEST,Gina 05 Jun 08 - 09:42 AM
Fred McCormick 05 Jun 08 - 11:03 AM
GUEST,Gina 06 Jun 08 - 09:12 AM
GUEST,Mark Carmichael 19 Jun 08 - 07:47 PM
Big Tim 20 Jun 08 - 09:52 AM
GUEST 20 Jun 08 - 03:48 PM
Big Tim 21 Jun 08 - 02:35 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Jun 08 - 04:06 AM
GUEST,Mark Carmichael 21 Jun 08 - 11:44 AM
Big Tim 21 Jun 08 - 01:12 PM
Fred McCormick 08 Jul 08 - 04:14 AM
GUEST,Gina 11 Jul 08 - 07:47 AM
Fred McCormick 11 Jul 08 - 11:51 AM
GUEST,JonM 11 Jul 08 - 03:39 PM
GUEST,Ian Archibald. 15 Jul 08 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,Ian Archibald. 16 Jul 08 - 01:07 PM
Big Tim 16 Jul 08 - 02:25 PM
GUEST 21 Jul 08 - 12:05 AM
GUEST 21 Aug 08 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,Ron Campbell 05 Apr 12 - 10:27 AM
Jim Carroll 05 Apr 12 - 12:02 PM
GUEST 05 Apr 12 - 12:42 PM
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Subject: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 23 May 08 - 04:28 PM

Does anybody know anything about a pub in Widnes where Irish folk music was popular? I think it's gone now and I don't know its name but it was nicknamed 'Cork Harbour'. James Carmichael the Northern Irish fiddler and singer played there.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,geoff
Date: 23 May 08 - 06:15 PM

Sorry but it is long gone


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 24 May 08 - 01:12 AM

Anybody know it's real name?


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Marilyn
Date: 24 May 08 - 03:16 AM

I'm fairly sure it was The Railway pub next door to the old baths in Widnes Road (I'm trying hard to remember this from my childhood when it would have seemed ridiculous for me not to know!!).

It was nicknamed Cork Harbour because of all the Irish immigrants who lived around there (my own family amongst them).


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 24 May 08 - 04:00 AM

Thanks Marilyn. Perhaps when your memory recovers (!) you could let us know.

(One of Jimmy Carmichael's pupils was Gina Le Faux who has said that Jimmy was a 'fantastic' fiddler).


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 May 08 - 05:01 AM

Jimmy Carmichael was also a singer and he gave a number of songs to Sam Henry. The ones listed by Roud are

THE HILLS OF TANDRAGEE
JOHNNIE HART
UNDER THE SHADE OF A BONNY GREEN TREE
FAREWELL TO SWEET GLENRAVEL
KELLSWATER
LOVE'S PARTING or JAMIE AND MARY

Love's Parting is probably better known as I am a Youth That's Inclined to Ramble. Fantastic song. And Gina Le Faux learned Kellswater from him. Alas I never heard Jimmy play and I never heard him sing either. But for a short list of songs that would sure take some beating.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 24 May 08 - 09:43 AM

Thanks Fred. It was my interest in Kellswater that got me started on this. I have been in touch with Gina and Jimmy's neice Rose in Ballymena (Jimmy's home town) and got lots of info but not the name of the pub! Gina couldn't remember either! I have written a piece on Kellswater and deposited it in Ballymena Library. By giving it to Sam Henry,Jimmy Carmichael saved that great song from extinction. He was born in 1903 and died in 1979. He gave about 30 songs to Sam Henry, the following of which were published in the 'Northern Constitution'.

20 Mar 1937 – Kellswater.
30 Oct 1937 - Farewell to Sweet Glenravel.
"Kindly supplied by Mr. Jim Carmichael...whose repertoire includes the choicest airs of Ulster."
20 Nov 1937 - The Hills of Tandragee.                             "Another song from the collection of James Carmichael...whose enthusiasm is saving many old songs and dance airs in his district from oblivion."
31 Dec 1938 - Love's Parting / Jamie and Mary.
11 Feb 1939 - Under the Shade of the Bonny Green Tree.
4 Mar 1939 - The Drum Major.
8 Apr 1939 – Kellswaterside. [An entirely different song from Kellswater]
22 Apr 1939 - You're Welcome as Flowers in May.
Below is an extract from my piece on Kellswater.

Kellswater was first broadcast on radio on 11 October 1937. In a letter to Jimmy Carmichael dated 5 October 1937, Sam Henry wrote,                                                   

'Dear Mr. Carmichael, I am broadcasting the song "Bonny Kellswater" on Monday 11th inst at 9 O' clock. I would like you to listen in'.

In another letter, dated 28 October 1937, Henry wrote,

'Dear Jim, I am going tomorrow (Friday) to Cushendall and I hope on my way back to spend an hour with you; round about 7 o'clock.
I have published "Farewell to Glenravel" in "Northern Constitution" – due tomorrow.
Thanking you for all you are doing in the cause of Ulster music'.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 24 May 08 - 11:17 AM

Well, Kellswater was also recorded from Paddy Gamble of Ballymoney, Antrim, and appeared on the LP Killeavy's Pride.

I was also going to riposte that Steve Roud's Folksong Index, lists 16 sources for this song. However:

The Index assigns Kellswater the number 916. Of these, 11 are Canadian, 2 are from England, and only 3 are Irish; Gamble, Carmichael, and a Donegal version from Herbert Hughes' Irish Country Songs.

What's confusing me is that I've just had a look in Maud Karpeles Folk Songs From Newfoundland at one of these sources. The song in question is called called ON BOARD THE GALLEE and seems to have no connection at all with Kellswater. It is in fact a ballad, roughly along the lines of John Reilly (the one which has "Oh father dear don't be severe to send my love to sea"). Moreover, the titles of the other non-Irish versions are; In Bristol City There Lived a Fair Maiden, Jimmy and I Will Get Married, Lovely Jimmy, A Rich Merchant in London, Shot Like a Bird on the Tree, and Oh in Leinster There Lived a Youg Damsel.

It rather looks as though Roud has included two different songs under the one number and that Jim Carmicael's Kellswater is indeed a fairly uncommon song.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 24 May 08 - 03:19 PM

Have you a date for the Paddy Gamble recording? Carmichael never made any recordings tho he did play on Irish (Dublin) radio. Ballymoney is of course very near to Ballymena, so there may be a Carmichael/Gamble link. Last time I was in Kells (village) I discovered that the song is well known there tho none of the old timers that I spoke to had ever heard of Planxty. Actually, I've long wondered where Planxty got the song. Sam Henry's 'Songs of the People'? The Gamble recording? We know that Sam got it from Jim. I wonder where Gamble got it?

(Actually this should be on the Kellswater thread).


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 25 May 08 - 04:47 AM

1978. The record was part of a series of traditional singers which Bobby Hanvey produced for Outlet. Unfortunately Outlet's production standards left quite a bit to be desired, so I doubt the Paddy's source for the song would have been quoted. I'll check later on anyway.

I've never heard Planxty perform this song, but I'd imagine Sam Henry to have been the most likely source.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Gina
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 06:45 PM

I am so glad that after so many years Jimmy Carmichael is at last getting some recognition for all the work that he did to save traditional songs and traditional dance tunes from his area. Jimmy was a great fiddle player, singer and a great man and I owe him so much for what he has helped me to achieve as a traditional fiddle player. I often think about the evenings that I spent at Jimmy and Bridie's house when I was young, listening to Jimmy's music, songs and stories and learning about playing for dancing.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick (cookieless and Pennyless)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:36 AM

Hi Gina,

Are there any surviving recordings of Jim Carmichael? It would be wonderful if some of his playing could be made available on CD.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Gina
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 09:19 AM

Hi Fred, Bridie told me that the BBC recorded Jimmy several times and I have tried to find out if the recordings still survive but so far I have found nothing. Jimmy was recorded on cassette playing his fiddle at his house but when Bridie tried to find the tapes she couldn't. All I have of his music is his copy of James Scott-Skinner's book, The Scottish Violinist and a manuscript book with some tunes he wrote out for me. It would be brilliant if some recordings could be found. Thanks everyone for being interested in Jimmy, he does deserve recognition. Gina


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 04:44 AM

Hi Gina,

Do you know roughly when he was recorded and where? Also when he first left Ireland. The information I have so far suggests two possibilities.

One would be that he was recorded by one of the BBC collectors before he left Ireland. That seems unlikely since I can't find anybody from Ireland of that name on the National Sound Archive website.

The other is that he might have been recorded by local radio in Widnes. If so, there's a reasonable chance that the programme survives.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Mo the caller
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM

That would be Radio Mersyside.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 09:16 AM

I know. I'll ask Geoff Speed the next opportunity which arises.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Gina
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 10:13 AM

I think Jimmy came over to England around 1951 or 1952 and as far as I know he was recorded by the BBC in England. Bridie told me that the Jimmy was recorded several times and the man that recorded him was very impressed by Jimmy's fiddle playing and rewarded him with a very nice bow. I did talk to Geoff Speed many years ago about Jimmy and Geoff knew nothing about him. So, if the local radio did record him it was before Geoff Speed's time there. Gina


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:01 AM

Well, Geoff has been with Radio Merseyside almost since it first opened. It could have been Stan Ambrose of course, but I think Geoff would still know. The early fifties would have been during the BBC's folk music collecting programme and I think it's far more likely to have been one of the collectors who was working for them. But if so I'd expect the recording to have shown up on the NSA database.

Anybody else capable of throwing some light on this?


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Geoff Speed
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 11:34 AM

Dear Gina and Fred,
I well recall my discussions with Gina concerening Jimmy.I did undertake some attempts to find out more,but without any sucess.
I will have a chat with the folks at the radio station and hopefully
unearth any available information.As they say on radio stations stay tuned.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Marilyn
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 02:24 PM

Big Tim: re the name of the pub

I asked my sister what the real name of the Cork Harbour was and, without any prompting from me, she said "The Railway, next door to the old baths, in Widnes Road".

It isn't proof but it increases the probability that I had remembered correctly.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 04:52 AM

Thanks Marilyn, much appreciated.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 05:53 AM

I've just checked with the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library. They have nothing on the sound archive database or the card catalogue for anyone called Jim Carmichael. That furthers my suspicion that it wasn't one of the collectors who were engaged on the BBC's collecting project. Also, the fact that this guy made several visits suggests it wasn't somebody from local radio.

That leaves me wondering whether it might have been somebody who worked for the BBC but not as a folk music collector. Alternatively of course, it could be that bridie mis-remembered and that it was a private individual with no BBC connections. In north west England I'd have thought that the most likely candidate would be Paul Graney, who was based in Manchester.

I've asked John Adams, who is looking after the Paul Graney archive. He couldn't turn anything up, although cataloguing is still in progress, so we'll have to wait and see on that one.

Gina, I've a couple more questions which might give us a clearer picture.

First of all, is Bridie still alive, or do you know of any living relative who might remember?

Secondly, were they definitely living in Widnes when the recordings were made?


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Gina
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 09:42 AM

Hi Fred, Bridie is dead but her daughter is still alive. One of Jimmy's friends is also still alive and I am due a visit to him soon. Bridie had all the info and it was her who used to tell me about the things that jimmy had done. You may be right as to him being recorded somewhere other than Widnes, I don't know. Several years ago I went through the recordings at Cecil Sharp House with Malcolm Taylor and I also made some enquiries as to whether Paul Graney had recorded him but I got no joy there at either place. Bridie was adamant that it was the BBC that recorded him and I assumed that this was the case and that it would be a simple job to find the recordings via their archive, but as we have found there are no references to him. I wonder if he was listed correctly? I am in the USA at the moment but when I get back home next week I will call a couple of people who may be able to shed a bit more light on things, but I have already gone as far as I could with contacts. I also have put the word out with folk song scholars in Massachusetts, who knows what information will turn up?


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 05 Jun 08 - 11:03 AM

Let's keep plugging away at it. The recordings have got to be somewhere. Of course it's possible that he's filed under a nickname with Antrim as his locale.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Gina
Date: 06 Jun 08 - 09:12 AM

Maybe we should start a new thread specifically about Jimmy Carmichael?


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Mark Carmichael
Date: 19 Jun 08 - 07:47 PM

Hi,
this is a very interesting thread about my Uncle James -I rememember well his "sessions" in the Cork Harbour snug.
He was passionate about his music and loved to play to anyone who would listen and appreciate his fiddle playing.
He was one of the few people who could read and write music, and was self taught.
He had a great affection for classical musicas well, and my favourite piece which I heard him play often was Gunards "Ave Maria".
As a child I would visit my Grans' house early in the mornings - he had a routine - he would have a mug of tea, wash and shave(in the old Belfast sink)and then take down his fiddle case,which hung on a hook beneath the shelf in the corner(on which sat the old "wireless".
After tuning up he would always start his morning practice with "Greensleeves".
By and by he would move on to faster pieces - I noticed that he enjoyed having me there as he played, and would frequently look over the saddle rest and grin at me.
He'd take time to tell me the names of the tunes and a wee bit about them - eg. "that's a hornpipe , or a set dance , or a jig etc."
He also liked the popular music of the era and was not averse to playing them.
I'm afraid however, when it came to the late 50's/60's he was not very tolerant! I rememember him refering to the Beatles as "The Beagles".
He was a good teacher, but he wasn't very patient with anyone who wasn't as keen as himself.
He and my Father, who played Banjo and Mandolin, were a joy to listen to growing up as a child in a house where each w/end was a "Ceili".
The ingredients were - good companions who would sing or tell a yarn or play an instrument - and of course the wooden crate(s) of Guiness, and a bottle of Bushmills - poteen was often on the agenda too - indeed James and Dad had their own wee "still" in the outhouse.

There are many tales one could tell of his exploits, and of "The Shamrock Ceili Band" which he formed, but maybe some other time!
It's nice to know that his dedication to the music he loved is still being recognised.
He met Bridie Buckley when he went to Widness and lodged in her boarding house(he never was one for the women,as they say) but he asked her and she said yes, and they lived a happy life - James had no children of his own, but treated Bridies' as his own.
He taught Eddie to play the banjo, and now Eddie is a well known muscian with a great bad/group in his own right.
If you get a chanc e to hear Eddie Buckley playing,you'll be in for a treat.
I myself drifted away from Traditional music - I play the guitar and write and sing mostly Gospel somgs now.
Lately I've taken to writing Gospel songs in Ulster Scots dialect - I have a site on www.soundclick.com/mark1000.
I'm not half the musician my Uncle or Dad was, but I owe them both a debt of grattitude for their influence.
My cousin Rose Murray has been playing piano for Irish dancing Feishes for 40 years now, and is still going strong!

Thank you for your interest, and for letting me ramble on like this !
(If there's anything else I can contribute, or any queries you have, I'll be only too glad to help if I can.)


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 09:52 AM

Thank you Mark, wonderful info and detail there about James.

I'm John McL who has corresponded with Rose.

It seems that James was a great fiddler; any info on any possible recordngs?


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jun 08 - 03:48 PM

I know that James had one of the first Grundig reel to reel recorders in Ballymena at the time, and made numerous recordings - where they may be now I don't know - i'll try to find out if anyone has some.
I came across a recording that my younger brother and I made 10 years ago( James taught him many traditional tunes, and he was a very good mandolin player).
I must try to figure out how to get it onto CD.
I do have a few photos of James and my Dad.
When I visited Widnes a few years ago, after James had died, I was amazed at the number of people who knew and respected him - apparantly he was a good influence on other muscians.
I was treated with great respect just because he was my Uncle!
I have asked Rose to record herself playing a selection of old traditional tunes - my favourite is "Peter Street"
James and Dad played at Irish dance Competitions, and once james choose to play"Turkey in the Straw".
This incurred the wrath of one of the Adjudicators, who commented rather sarcastically that this was no place to play American tunes,
James took great delight in referring him to his copy of Book of Kells Traditional music, which included the tune among it's contents.
Juast another example of Irish music being exported to the USA, and claimed as their own.
I suspect that James did the whole thing deliberately !


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 02:35 AM

That's interesting about the Book of Kells Traditional music. Rose told me that she still has and uses James' copy of 'The Dance Music of Ireland - 1001 Gems' by Francis O'Neill (1907). She also gave me a nice photo of James, Lily (her sister, a champion Irish dancer) and James' brother Robert (a member of James''Shamrock Band'), dated 1949. I included it in the piece that I deposited in Ballymena Library.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 04:06 AM

There used to be a folk club in a pub called 'The Cemetery Arms' in Widnes - adjacent to a large graveyard.
Its claim to fame was a notice displayed behind the bar which read "No spirits served after 10pm.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Mark Carmichael
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 11:44 AM

James wasn't much of a singer, I don't remember him singing at all as I was growing up - my Dad (Robbie) was quite a good singer, and much in demand at "does".
James also never drank until later in life, he was very firm       that those who played in "The Shamrock Ceili Band" stayed sober wilst playing at events.
At one event, the first prize in a draw that was being held to raise funds was a bottle of Bushmills Whiskey.Now my Dad, and the drummer(Alan McCrory) wre not adverse to a "tipple".
When the winner of the Draw was announced, the bottle of Bushmills could not be found - niether could the drummer or my Dad!
It eventually transpired that both boyos had yielded to temptation , and downed the bottle- I think that James didn't speak to them for about a week!
The only momento that I have of my Uncle James is his tuning pipe, which he used to tune his old fiddle(which he treated like a lady)
He tried to teach me to play the fiddle, but it all ended abrubtly when one of our practices was interrupted by my dad(slightly inebriated) appearing with a black puppy tucked under his arm - it was a Birthday present for me.
That was the end of my budding career as a traditional fiddle player!
Whe James made up his mind about something, there was no changing it!
I loved to hear him play - I would sit and listen to him for hours, he had such a lovely touch and tone, and played each tune with great sensitivity - I really miss those times.
Thank you all for bringing back such nice memories.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 21 Jun 08 - 01:12 PM

Thank you Mark.

I got in touch with Widnes Library but they couldn't trace the 'Cork Harbour!.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 08 Jul 08 - 04:14 AM

Re the recordings of Jim Carmichael which were said to have been made by the BBC. I've checked with the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library and with the Irish Traditional Music Archive. Neither establishment has any listing of any BBC or RTÉ recordings made by JC.

If he was recorded, then, it means the recordist may have been a BBC employee, but presumably must have been somebody acting in a private capacity.

I'll keep making enquiries and hope something turns up. But I'm beginning to feel like a cross between Willie the Wisp and the Maltese Falcon.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Gina
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 07:47 AM

Yes, Fred, I checked out the BBC via Malcolm Taylor at Cecil Sharp House several years ago and we found nothing. A friend of mine asked the late Peter Kennedy about recordings of JC and he said he had not recorded him, and didn't know anything about him. There is a possibility that the late Paul Graney may have recorded Jimmy but from what Bridie told me, it was definately somebody connected with the BBC. As for the Cork Harbour, I think I may be able to shed more light on it, I have an old friend who was a friend of Jimmy's and also a great fiddle player who I need to get in touch with. I think he used to drink there. Stay tuned . . .


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Fred McCormick
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 11:51 AM

Re Paul Graney. I've already checked with John Adams who manages the Paul Graney archive. he said there's nothing among the stuff that's already catalogued and he'll be keeping an eye open as the rest of it's sorted.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,JonM
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 03:39 PM

Couple of people I've spoken to confirm that the Cork Harbour was The Railway, which was about where the carpark for City Plumbing now is.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Ian Archibald.
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:14 PM

James Carmichael married my Grandmother Bridie.My mother is Jane Archibald(nee Hughes) who is Bridies only daughter.Eddie Hughes my uncle, is the banjo player in irish folk group cream of the barley.My father Dave Archibald who played in irish bands Pipers Chair,Slipjig & Blarney stone passed away in 1992.

I can remember as a young boy sitting on my grandad Jims knee while he was playing the fiddle,my uncle Eddie playing the Banjo and my nan(bridie) singing along.

Unfortunately my nan passed away in June 2007 at the grand old age of 90.James and Bridie are once again reunited,up there somewhere having a good old sing song.

My mother is away on holiday at the moment but when she returns I will see if she has any old recordings and I will keep you posted.I will also try dig out some old photo's of grandad Jim in his playing days and upload them onto the internet.
Wonderful stories,many thanks.(e-mail a1archie@hotmail.com)


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Ian Archibald.
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 01:07 PM

It appears that James & Bridie Carmichael where very popular figures in widnes in the 150,60 & 70's.That is why I have started a new thread named after them for people to post any stories & tales about the wonderful couple.
Many thanks
Ian Archibald.(Grandson)


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Big Tim
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 02:25 PM

Thanks Ian.


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Jul 08 - 12:05 AM


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 06:01 PM

Nice to hear from you Ian - I'm Mark Carmichael and I've visited a couple of times with your Mum.
It was pleasing to realise that james was held in such high regard.
I've contacted RTE to find out if there are any archive radio recording, as I know they did at least one broadcast from there.
Rose Murray,his niece is still playing traditional music at the feis, and I've asked her to to make me a cd .
James greatly influenced her and taught her many tunes.
James and Bridie were inseperable, and I was saddened to hear of her passing, she was a great ladie, and backed James in all he did.
I carry on the music tradition, but in a different form - I write and sing Gospel songs, some of them in the Ulster Scots dialect.
I owe my interest in music to my father and James - like you as a lad sitting at the feet of masters of their craft.
(I have some songs on www.soundclick.com/mark1000 if you ever get the chance to look it up.)


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST,Ron Campbell
Date: 05 Apr 12 - 10:27 AM

It was called the Railway and Harry Owen had it for a while before he had the Rugby Club he was a great bloke and the perfect licencee his two brothers Ray and Dave followed him into the trade and they were good too I was in there one New Years Day with Joe Lyons Gerry McCann and Jimmy Ryan the ex boxer Lobby Conolly came in and Jimmy said something not nice to him and Lobby smacked him right on the chin !! Jimmy dropped like a stone and we stopped it going any further even though we were all well oiled ! Harry never turned a hair just said Come on lads it's New Years Day and we carried on as if nothing had happened !!   That was back in the days when you could have a fight without thinking of knives or any other kind of weapon !! Jimmy apologised for his remarks and Jimmy was a gentleman who had been a very good boxer as was his brothers Harry ran the Rugby club and he was very very popular there and deservedly so along with his wife Jean


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Apr 12 - 12:02 PM

There was one not far away in Warrington in a pub called The Cemetary Arms. Can't remember much about the club but the sign over the bar stuck in my memory - "Spirits only served after midnight".
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Old folk pub in Widnes?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 12 - 12:42 PM

I used to work behind the bar in the pub near the Town Hall run by one Joe Hartles This pub also used to run a folk club where Paul Simon appeared before penning his famous song on Widnes station in 1965 I think

The Cork had a reputation then of being a fighting pub in West Bank and best to be avoided if you wanted a quiet evenings drink


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