Tech: Concertina being played standing

Subject: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Guran
Date: 26 May 08 - 10:04 AM

Problems to play concertinas standing are frequently coming up and are often causing confusion.Instrument weight commonly is misjudged being of major importance for playing "heaviness" while in real the end area is the prime factor deciding playing effort.
Consequently to play standing comfortably you do NOT need a light instrument but good handles and maybe a shoulderstrap (rather NOT a neckstrap because that is an inferior solution) and to stabilize the management of the bellows a "cross-the-bellows-strap" may facilitate the action a great deal.
Have a look at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmEPTosZ44g
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4enJpSLsF2s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSsBwO2PTVE

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 May 08 - 11:25 AM

hello, Guran.well done.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Rowan
Date: 26 May 08 - 06:25 PM

Never had a problem with it, myself and have never used any straps other than the normal Anglo hand straps. Have even played the tune while waltzing the floor with my lady.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Guran
Date: 27 May 08 - 03:23 AM

Congratulations Rowan ! but your own luck is poor comfort for those who are less fortunate I'm afraid...There obviously exists a great deal of suffering among those who complain that they simply can not play standing for various reasons and the rational approach is doing something constructive about their misery.
I can't help another reflection - you haven't ever considered the possibility that a more efficient handle for instance might make your own playing more comfortable?... and even facilitate learning and progress although you 'never had a problem' like you say? Compare athletics or other competitive sports - those who won't adopt the newest equipment or technique will never win a game and it all regulates itself without much debate - results speak for themselves...
Since music making usually is not competitive in that way you have to compare only with your own standard if you want to improve your performance...

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 May 08 - 03:39 AM

I was invited on a day cruise aboard a Polish schooner. As we pulled away from the dock the crew/cadets all came to the main deck. I was above on the after deck when the mate pulled out his concertina (anglo) & started playing (while standing), he then start shouting orders in Polish & the crew/cadets started to handle the sail. He started singing a halyard shanty & they started right in haulin while singing back the chorus. This carried on though 2 long shanties & all the sails were up. It was amazing. Then out came another concertina & someone else started playing fiddle, then a second fiddle. He played like there was nothing to it, I thought I had a 2nd coming. The ship was being driven by music. I swear if the wind had died down we would have kept right on going.

Barry

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 May 08 - 05:41 PM

Since no one told me I couldn't do it or that it was difficult, I've been playing English concertina standing up for 34 years. So have most of the other players I know.

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 May 08 - 05:47 PM

The most difficult thing is playing the concertina standing on your head.
Next is to play standing on a race horse.
its also fairly difficult to play,standing on a bodhran.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Rowan
Date: 27 May 08 - 06:54 PM

I take your point, Guran, that what I find easy may be a heavy burden to someone else. And vice versa.

I wasn't intending to be dismissive and, given that I have found no difficulty, perhaps some aspects of my approach may be helpful. In a past life I was in my university's IV judo team and, like many in that judo club I was also active in the uni mountaineering club. Judo contests use "standing" technique (throws, mostly) and "groundwork" (armlocks, strangles and immobilisations). It was while dealing with immobilisations (both at the giving and receiving ends) that I first discovered the art of relaxing completely until energy release was required; I found it really useful in many aspects of my climbing and bushwalking as well.

It wasn't until many years later that I started playing concertina and I did so primarily as an MC, dance caller and singer, all of which really require one to be standing for best effect. Make no mistake, I like sitting down while playing and I like playing while sitting down, but playing while standing was what I had to do. And, when you're sharing a small stage with a large number of instrumentalists (as at Nariel or in the Old Empire Band) you often have no choice.

Over the years I've noticed that many instrumentalists (on a wide variety of instruments) tense muscles that are not actively involved in the ergonomics of their playing; concertina players especially tense not only their forearms and upper arms (both of which can be relatively relaxed during much playing) but also their shoulders, neck and chest muscles, even when playing while seated. When I play while standing, none of those muscles are used and are relaxed. My legs and feet might dance around a bit but almost all the action is in the fingers and the wrists although, if I haven't practised for a while, there is an abductor in the upper arm that tells me I should practise more.

I'm not particularly big, strong and ugly (some may argue but I'll deal with youse later) but I think that focussing my muscle-attention onto those bits that reaaly require it and relaxing the rest is what enables me to play standing; practice also helps.

And another tip. When I began, many of the older players were playing English and rested the instrument across their knee, thus resting the effect of the instrument's weight from both hand (and wearing the bellows folds more rapidly). When seated, I rested the right endplate of my Anglo on the top of the inside of my right thigh, protecting almost all of the instrument from such wearing but requiring me to take all of the left end of the instrument onto the left hand. Being right-handed, it's quite likely that the left side of my pectoral girdle was predisposed towards exercising greater coarse muscle strength and the right side was more into fine motor control. Such a positioning might have helped me get more quickly into taking both ends up into the air and playing while standing.

I hope this helps.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Barry Finn
Date: 27 May 08 - 07:26 PM

Dick, not if the bodhran is lying flat.

Barry

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 May 08 - 08:02 PM

"its also fairly difficult to play,standing on a bodhran"

Also - not for long if you are of large build - unless it is a high quality one... :-P

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 May 08 - 09:00 PM

Rowan-

Well said!

I generally feel more comfortable with the Anglo concertina resting on my thiegh but my voice is more powerful if I am standing.

Then I remember my old pal Chez Watts (Bristol) describing his one-armed friend who played concertina while driving...

"There are many ports," said Murphy, "and I guess I've sampled most..." (reference to "Port o' Dreams" by C. Fox Smith)

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Guran
Date: 28 May 08 - 03:27 AM

Thanks for your reply Rowan ! I am pleased to notice a much more diversified attitude to the matter than earlier impression...

Comments like these are common when people meet similar 'novelties':
- "I have not heard of these problems before - do they really exist?
- "I have no such problems so they likely do not exist"
- "All star performers I know manage without you recommendations"

What you describe concerning muscle tension and strain problems related to 'static work' vs 'dynamic work' is really very important, and no doubt sports activities and associated techniques and habits for relaxation may reduce problems to a great deal.This however can neither replace good ergonomic design of the instrument itself, nor eliminate the need for sound methods handling it.

Systematic tuition for concertina playing has hardly existed for more than 100years and never in ways similar to 'symphonic' musical instruments.In the later 50 years or so it has gradually grown for accordion playing however, which no doubt has meant some progress for qualities of accordion performance and some of that may certainly be assimilated to concertina-playing.

Concerning routines when playing seated I agree and I have some additional points, have a look at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIpE38VoY08&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0c1aIVNC_84&feature=related

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: Artful Codger
Date: 30 May 08 - 08:44 PM

Standing on one is still the best use for a bodhran yet devised--particularly if you happen to be ..um.. ponderous. ;-}

Charley: But can he play it while texting?

Subject: RE: Tech: Concertina being played standing
From: GUEST,aeola2
Date: 31 May 08 - 01:45 PM

Well Dick, I reckon if I played Standing on my head I'd have a pint and rest the concertina on the floor!!