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Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!

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GUEST,Tunesmith 29 May 08 - 04:21 PM
Def Shepard 29 May 08 - 04:34 PM
GUEST,Tunesmith 29 May 08 - 04:44 PM
MartinRyan 29 May 08 - 05:16 PM
Seán Báite 30 May 08 - 03:55 AM
MartinRyan 30 May 08 - 04:10 AM
GUEST,Brian Barry 05 Oct 12 - 12:44 AM
GUEST,Beachcomber 05 Oct 12 - 07:44 AM
MartinRyan 05 Oct 12 - 05:09 PM
GUEST,lynnmiller0915 27 Sep 14 - 03:15 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 27 Sep 14 - 03:50 PM
Felipa 27 Sep 14 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,Beth Last 25 Apr 18 - 09:58 AM
Gallus Moll 25 Apr 18 - 07:04 PM
GUEST 26 Apr 18 - 03:32 AM
GUEST,Scotch-Irish Cracket 26 Aug 18 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,Ebor Fiddler 26 Aug 18 - 02:46 PM
GUEST,Ebor Fiddler 26 Aug 18 - 02:49 PM
Jim Carroll 26 Aug 18 - 03:12 PM
Thompson 27 Aug 18 - 05:11 AM
GUEST,Jerry 27 Aug 18 - 05:42 AM
Jim Carroll 27 Aug 18 - 05:49 AM
Thompson 27 Aug 18 - 05:53 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 27 Aug 18 - 10:17 AM
robomatic 27 Aug 18 - 07:44 PM
Jim Carroll 28 Aug 18 - 06:34 AM
GUEST,Jerry 28 Aug 18 - 10:07 AM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 28 Aug 18 - 11:19 AM
GUEST,keberoxu 28 Aug 18 - 11:52 AM
GUEST,Jerry 28 Aug 18 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 29 Aug 18 - 06:36 AM
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Subject: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 29 May 08 - 04:21 PM

My brother is writing an article on the John Wayne/John Ford film "The Quiet Man". At one point in the film the Barry Fitzgerald character announces himself to Maureen O'Hara as the "matchmaker" and then says a word that my brother says sounds like "shockahorn". My brother thinks this word might be the gaelic for matchmaker. Can anyone out there help with this matter?


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Def Shepard
Date: 29 May 08 - 04:34 PM

You mean this scene?


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 29 May 08 - 04:44 PM

Def Shepherd: Thanks for that. The words sounds like "shocklehorn" to my ears.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 29 May 08 - 05:16 PM

The Irish word is "seachrán", sometimes written phonetically as "shaughraun" in English . Strictly, it means "wandering" or "astray" (sometimes in the head!).

Regards


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Seán Báite
Date: 30 May 08 - 03:55 AM

See also the use of the anglicised word for the title of a play by Dion Boucicault - the play has a similar atmosphere to the Quiet Man, as I remember.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 May 08 - 04:10 AM

Thanks, Seán. It was too late at night for Boucicault's name to surface when I posted the above!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Brian Barry
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 12:44 AM

Chag-lan (shohg-lon). Tis matchmaker, indeed. Sans the whiskey.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 07:44 AM

Martin is quite correct of course and I remember from my youth in rural Ireland that some people (not necessarily with a knowledge of Irish Language) would refer to a man who had spent consecutive days in the local public houses, as being "on the   Seachrán"
I'd like to read Guest Brian's definition of his "Chag Lan"
De Bhaldraithe has Basadóir = Matchmaker.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: MartinRyan
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 05:09 PM

The original link is long since dead - but I reckon I checked it at the time. I'd be curious to know GUESTBrian Barry's word, alright.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,lynnmiller0915
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 03:15 PM

Thank you all sooo much..I am an American Irish matchmaker..lol..and when someone said they knew what a yiddish matchmaker is, a yenta.What do they call an Irish matchmaker, I said bartender..lol..my parents owned a bar for decades..lol


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 03:50 PM

Maybe you should visit Lisdoonvarna and have a chat with Willie Daly.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Felipa
Date: 27 Sep 14 - 05:57 PM

could they have used a Yiddish word? http://yiddishwordoftheweek.tumblr.com/post/902992899/shadkhnen


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Beth Last
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 09:58 AM

I love the movie The Quiet Man and often wondered exactly what the word was.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Gallus Moll
Date: 25 Apr 18 - 07:04 PM

The original story was written by the wonderful Maurice Walsh. I have a number of his books in my house and if I can find them (!) I am sure The Quiet Man is amongst them -- so I shall check to see whether he uses an Irish word for matchmaker. (Maurice Walsh was Irish, but he also worked in Scotland and set many of his tales here.)


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Apr 18 - 03:32 AM

"shaughraun"
The "shaughraun sidhe" is the wandering fairy in folklore
The Shaughraun" is the title of an excellent play by Dion Boucicault, set in the time English Soldiers "Sappers" were Anglicising Irish place-names in thee 19th century
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Scotch-Irish Cracket
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 01:08 PM

seachrán is the nickname of the character of Michaleen Oge Flynn in the movie. Since he’s always rondering around town on his horse and buggy.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 02:46 PM


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Ebor Fiddler
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 02:49 PM

Whoops! Why were the Royal Engineers anglicising Irish place names? Surely this would more likely be done by the Ordnance Survey Department.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 26 Aug 18 - 03:12 PM

SeaSeachrán" = straying or delusional - the Seachrán sídh (The straying fairy) is a character in Irish folklore
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 05:11 AM

Anyone got a working link to the scene?

I've never liked that rapey film with its caricatures of Irish people.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 05:42 AM

So why is this film still so popular nearly 70 years on? It was, as they say, very much of its time, with stereotypical characters, bastardised versions of traditional Irish tunes and some dodgy and outdated attitudes towards women.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 05:49 AM

"So why is this film still so popular nearly 70 years on? "
Because it appeals to those who don't see Ireland beyond the stereotype - and the massive hype industry, of course
Try visiting the beutiful town of Cong and you'll see for yourself
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 05:53 AM

I see Ford's screenplay, with annotations by O'Hara, sold for fifty thousand smackers!

I'm puzzled by the word people are alleging normally you'd talk of a cleamhnas, and rarely use the word for a matchmaker, which is something like bobasóir.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 10:17 AM

At the time of the original enquiry, there was a link to the relevant film clip. From my comments at the time, I clearly checked it and heard it as "shaughraun", with no direct link to matchmaking.

De Bhaldraithe, incidentally, gives "Basadaeir" and "babhdóir" for "matchmaker" - looks like you married the two words!

Regards


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Aug 18 - 07:44 PM

Jim Carroll:

Of course it's a film but I believe it conveys a great amount of characteristics that the Irish and the non-Irish associate with some stereotypes, but I believe it goes well beyond over-simplicity and also transmits positive messages, such as the woman standing for her own needs and values and not being a pushover. It has great charm and humor. I'd parallel it with the movie version of "Fiddler on the Roof". It presents a romanticized stereotypical movie, but it doesn't claim to do more than that. There are folks who don't appreciate it, but as movie it has lasted and I could watch it over with far more enjoyment than most movies. I have some faith in humanity to realize that all people are far more complex in reality and reality has far more hard edges that don't make for family entertainment.

I've known many Irish folk and bicycled the west coast of Eire and if it's one thing Irish people can do with each other and guests it is to take full advantage of Irish images while transcending them.

Also, I didn't use to have much use for John Wayne. I preferred the English John Wayne, Jack Hawkins. But "Quiet Man" and "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence" brought me around to appreciate his fine qualities.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 06:34 AM

"such as the woman standing for her own needs and values"
And finally succumbing to "common sense"
John Ford (and John Wayne) were notorious for their extremist right-wing views (there's a lovely description of them in a filmed interview with one of the non-star but regular 'faces' in Ford Westerns)
I think some of of those views are reflected in The Quiet Man, which I find patronising, moving into racist at times - Mclachlan's stereotype boorish, drunken Irish gobshite-with-a-heart-of-gold being a pretty fair example
Up to that perion, Hollywood poured out such cringe-making stuff ny the van-load
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 10:07 AM

Err.......if I remember rightly, the leading lady succombs to a public spanking in the supposedly hilarious closing scene of this film, rather than standing up for her own values. Or am I thinking of another film?


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 11:19 AM

I really liked this film, despite (or maybe because of) its 'Oirishness'
It was of its time, when no-one really knew what was going on in Ireland & we're only now learning about what really WAS going on & it wasn't funny.

However, the best story I heard about it was what Maureen O'Hara said about the scene near the end where she whispers in John Wayne's ear.
It seems director John Ford wanted to evoke a particular facial reaction from Wayne & suggested what she might say to him.
She followed orders, and it certainly worked!
She refused to say what it was, as did Ford & they took the secret to their graves.... ah well!


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 11:52 AM

Maureen o'Hara getting a public spanking --
you have the right actors,
John Wayne and Maureen o'Hara,
however that sounds like a different film than the Quiet Man.
That sounds more like one of the Westerns the actors made together,
"McLintock."
The public spanking is made even more public
by putting it into the publicity posters for the film,
which you can see at Internet Movie DataBase.


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,Jerry
Date: 28 Aug 18 - 12:52 PM

Sorry, folks, I stand corrected (unlike Ms O’Hara, who bent over).


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Subject: RE: Quiet Man - gaelic word? Help!
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 29 Aug 18 - 06:36 AM

Jerry- maybe that's what she offered when she whispered in John Wayne's ear?- think she'd have been wasting her time though?


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