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Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor

GUEST,.gargoyle 25 Apr 05 - 02:07 AM
Dancealot 30 May 08 - 08:16 PM
Joe Offer 31 May 08 - 01:16 AM
Joe Offer 31 May 08 - 01:56 AM
Dancealot 31 May 08 - 11:10 AM
Joe Offer 31 May 08 - 02:08 PM
Joe Offer 01 Jun 08 - 03:18 AM
Jim Dixon 02 Jun 08 - 09:10 PM
Dancealot 04 Jun 08 - 07:14 PM
Dancealot 04 Jun 08 - 07:49 PM
Joe Offer 08 Jun 08 - 02:43 AM
Melissa 08 Jun 08 - 03:27 AM
Joe Offer 11 Jun 08 - 04:09 AM
Azizi 14 Mar 09 - 08:08 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 29 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM
GUEST 10 Sep 09 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,Kris 06 Aug 11 - 12:21 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: MRS. VICKER'S DAUGHTER
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Apr 05 - 02:07 AM

"Mrs. Vickers' Daughter," Maine: from the WPA manuscript collection, Archive of Folk Song, Library of Congress.

Emrich, Duncan, American Folk Poetry – An Anthology Little, Brown and Company – Boston, 1974, p 41.

MRS. VICKER'S DAUGHTER

Johnny Thomson, so they say,
Goes a-courting every day,
Sword and pistol by his side,
Lizzie Vickers for his bride.

Oh, dear doctor, can you tell
What will make poor Lizzie well?
She is sick and she may die,
That would make poor Johnny cry.

Johnny here and Johnny there,
Johnny o'er the water,
Johnny's got the sweetest girl.
Mrs. Vickers' daughter.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver
From: Dancealot
Date: 30 May 08 - 08:16 PM

Am I the only person on earth that remembers this? Every junior high beginning pianist knows and plays the tune, but sings it as "Doctor, doctor, can you tell. What will make poor xx-xx well"

My dad played piano in his family band about 1915 and he sang the original lyrics:
    Every night in my backyard
    Isn't it an aweful shame?
    Pussycats are fighting hard.
    Isn't it an aweful shame?
    Get my boot jack and my gun.
    Isn't it an aweful shame?
    When I'm ready, away they run.
    Isn't it an aweful shame?

    cho:
    Goodby Sally Weaver, goodby Sally Jane
    Goodbye Sally Weaver
    I'll never see you again.
Does anyone know any more verses? I know the tune was used as the grand prize puzzle on a Name That Tune type radio show in the 1950's and nobody got it for months. Everybody knows the tune but almost nobody knows its name or the real lyrics.


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Subject: ADD: Oh Dear Doctor
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 08 - 01:16 AM

I'd like to find a tune for this. I thought it would be in The Singing Game (Iona & Peter Opie), page 163, #32, but all I found were these lyrics:

    Oh Dear Doctor

    Oh, dear doctor, can you tell
    What will make poor Annie well?
    Annie's is sick and going to die,
    That would make poor Frankie cry.

    Frankie's here and Frankie's there,
    Frankie's on the water,
    Frankie's got the prettiest girl.
    Of Mrs. Burton's daughters.




Here's what's in Games and Songs of American Children (William Wells Newell), page 99, #36:

    The Doctor's Prescription

    Oh, dear doctor, can you tell
    What will make poor _______ well?
    She is sick and like to die,
    And that will make poor ___________ cry.


The doctor's prescription is a kiss.



Kididdles has another version:

    Doctor, doctor, can you tell
    What will make poor Sheila well?
    She is sick and going to die
    That will make poor Tommy cry.

    Tommy, Tommy, don’t you cry.
    You will see her by and by,
    Dressed in pink or navy blue,
    Waiting at the church to marry you.



And Cruiser posted this one:

    Thread #4300   Message #1372419
    Posted By: Cruiser
    05-Jan-05 - 05:36 PM
    Thread Name: Children's Street Songs
    Subject: RE: Children's Street Songs

    This is a song my girlfriend used to play on her piano and sing when we were in grade school, often just before we walked to school together (way back in the 50s).

    Doctor, doctor, can you tell
    What will make poor Ronnie well?
    He is sick and going to die
    That will make poor Nancy cry.

    Nancy, Nancy, don't you cry.
    He'll get better by and by,
    A bottle of ink to make him stink
    A bottle of wine to make him shine


    Does anybody know the melody of this ditty and what song it was derived from, if any?

    Cruiser



It's also in our copy of Stan Kulikowski's Jumprope Archive:
      Doctor, Doctor,
    Can you tell
    What will make
    Poor {name} well? (* Names a girl *)

    She is sick
    And about to die,
    That will make
    Poor {name} cry. (* Names a boy *)

    When he comes
    All dressed in blue,
    That's a sign
    He'll marry you.

Source: Mary and Herbert Knapp (1976) One Potato, Two Potato... The Secret Education of American Children (WW Norton & Company, Inc; New York), pp 274.






But neither of these books has a tune for the song, and I've never heard the song myself. Can anybody e-mail me a MIDI for posting?

-Joe Offer-
joe@mudcat.org


I think I'll move Gargoyle's post in to make the discussion more complete.
-and don't forget we're looking for more information on Dancealot's lyrics.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 08 - 01:56 AM

This excerpt shows the verse as a play-party song for English-speaking children in the northern part of Honduras:


    Children also played traditional games with songs in English such as Obeah Man, I like a boy (Me gusta un Chavo) and Cheque Senorita. The children's game Obeah man is very interesting. It was played on the North Coast explained an English speaking teacher who grew up in La Ceiba. Obeah man was the person who not only knew how to cure illnesses, but also had knowledge of magic such as finding out who caused witchcraft or who had stolen things. The word is used in many places in the Caribbean and the origin of the word Obeah comes from Ghana in Africa where many slaves in the Caribbean came from. In this game, the person who is the Obeah man is outside the circle. Inside the circle of children holding hands is a child on the ground acting sick. The children sing,
      "Obeah man, can you tell what will make this lady well.
      For she is sick and sure to die and that will make her Mama cry."
    The Obeah man then answers that they should slap her on the back and change her name to Lucy Ana. Then different children play the sick child and the Obeah man.


    Source: The History and Culture of Bay Islanders and North Coast English Speakers of Honduras By Wendy Griffin © 2004
    http://www.unmundo.org/files/Isleno.pdf


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Dancealot
Date: 31 May 08 - 11:10 AM

"Can anybody e-mail me a MIDI for posting?"

Just ask at any Junior HS or HS class. All the kids in any piano class will play "Doctor, doctor, can you tell" for you.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 08 - 02:08 PM

Well, Dancealot, I e-mailed my favorite piano teacher. If students are certain to know it, then one would think a TEACHER would.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 03:18 AM

Well, the piano teacher didn't recognize it.
Anybody know the tune?
Azizi?

The Singing Game by the Opies says one version has a tune that is an adaptation of "Yankee Doodle," but they don't provide that vedrsion. Finally, I found a tune in Volume V of The Frank C. Brown Collection of North Carolina Folklore (page 540), and it's the tune of the first two lines of Little Brown Jug. Is that the tune, Dancealot?
Maybe could somebody call me in California and sing it into my answering machine?

-Joe Offer-
(530)878-8419


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 09:10 PM

Music notation is given at The Frank C. Brown Collection of NC Folklore: The Music of the Folk Songs By Frank C. Brown, Duke University Press, 1970, page 540.

It has the notation, "Our tune is identical with that of 'Little Brown Jug.'"

It also mentions another version.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Dancealot
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:14 PM

"it's the tune of the first two lines of Little Brown Jug. Is that the tune, Dancealot?"

No, only slightly similar. I'll write it up.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Dancealot
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 07:49 PM

OK, I have the sheet music as a PDF file. Where/how do I upload it? For the time being I will stick it at http://www.freewebs.com/dancealot/Sally Weaver.pdf

Click to play


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 02:43 AM

Well, here's the tune from the Frank C. Brown Collection. It doesn't sound like "Little Brown Jug" to me, but it does sound like a tune played at the end of a cartoon. I posted my transcription of Dancealot's tune in the message above. The two tunes are more-or-less the same. Very familiar, but I can't put a name to it.
-Joe-

Lyrics to this tune:

    Oh, dear doctor, can you tell
    What will make poor Mary well?
    She is sick and she might die
    That would make poor - - cry.


Music notation is given at The Frank C. Brown Collection of NC Folklore: The Music of the Folk Songs By Frank C. Brown, Duke University Press, 1970, page 540.



Click to play



Name that tune!!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Melissa
Date: 08 Jun 08 - 03:27 AM

sounds a lot like the intro to Der Fuehrer's Face to me?

it also reminds me of "my boyfriend's name is Fatty (?) he comes from Cincinnati" or a second part to "every time the baby cries, stick my finger in the baby's eye" IF it had a second part..


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jun 08 - 04:09 AM

Any other ideas on the name of this tune?
Does anyone else know "Sally Weaver," and something of its origin?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Mar 09 - 08:08 PM

Joe, I found this thread while looking for another children's rhyme.

I don't know this rhyme, though it seems likely to me that it's related to "Water Water Wallflower". Here's the 3rd verse from Mudcat's Digital Tradition:
@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7605

3.
Water, water, wall-flowers,
Growing up so high,
We are all ladies,
And we must all die.
But the youngest of us all,
Turn their faces to the wall.
[So on, to the oldest.]
Water, water, wall-flowers,
Growing up so high,
We are all ladies,
And we must all die.
But the oldest of us all,
Turn their faces to the wall.
[So on, to the youngest.]

-snip-

I've never seen or heard any children chanting any of these playground rhymes so can't address the question of the tune it uses. By the way the sound clips features aren't working in the posts above. :O(

**

I have heard this verse in "Down Down Baby' ("I Love Coffee I Love Tea"* hand clap rhymes and I have found it online in a number of contemporary versions of that "Down Down Baby" rhyme:

Doctor doctor will I die?
Close your eyes and count to five
1-2-3-4-5
I'm alive!

[sometimes this is added-"And on channel 5!"]

-snip-

An older version of "I Love Coffee I Love Tea" has the verse
Grandma Grandma sick in bed
called the doctor and the doctor said
"Get up Grandma You aint sick.
All you need is a hickory stick.

-snip-

I knew a version of "I Love Coffee..." in my childhood in Atlantic City, New Jersey (1950s). But we didn't say either the "doctor doctor will I die" or the "grandma sick in bed" verse. I've never heard any African American girls in Pittsburgh, PA (my 'primary' face to face rhyme collection sources) say the "grandma sick in bed" verse. But, they "doctor doctor will I die/close your eyes and count to five" verse is a standard verse for that rhyme.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the name of the tune which is used for "Down Down Baby" ("I Love Coffe..." which also sometimes has the "Shimmy Shimmy Coco Pa"/down by the rollercoaster" verses). And though I know the tune which this rhyme uses, I don't write or read music, so I can't write down.

Maybe you've found out the name of the tune for "Sally Weaver". If so, it would be great if you or someone who knows the "Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor" rhyme and the "I Love Coffee I Love Tea" rhyme would post whether the tunes for the two playground rhymes are the same.

Thanks.

Azizi


* "I love coffee I love tea" is sometimes given as "I like coffee I like tea".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 29 Jun 09 - 02:42 PM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Sep 09 - 03:57 PM

doctor doctor can you tell
what will make poor johnny well
he is sick and about to die
and that will make his momma cry
momma momma don't you cry
he'll get better bye and bye
feed him just a bottle of wine
and he'll be up a feelin fine


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Sally Weaver/Oh Dear Doctor
From: GUEST,Kris
Date: 06 Aug 11 - 12:21 AM

This is the tune that I remember playing on the piano as a kid. I can't remember is it is the whole tune though. Can anyone help me?

Doctor, Doctor, can you tell
What will make poor (Sally) well

She is sick and about to die
That will make poor (Johnny) cry

(Johnny), (Johnny), don't you cry
She'll get better by and by

When she comes all dressed in blue,
She will have a kiss for you

When she comes all dressed in white,
She will marry you tonight.


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