Accents in Folk Music

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: GUEST,Volgadon
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:26 AM

I have a CD of the Red Army Choir singing Tipperary! They had released an album of soldier songs from the world over.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 04 Jun 08 - 03:19 AM

"Ever hear Rambling Jack Elliot sing 'I belong to Glasgow'?"
Or The Red Army Choir singing 'It's a Long Way To Tipperary'?
'Walter Pardon especially'
Towards the end of his life we played Walter an early recording of himself singing on a radio programme. His response was "didn't I sing broad in them days; you can hardly understand me!"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: the button
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:59 PM

One of the things that always strikes me about listening to certain traditional singers (Fred Jordan & Walter Pardon especially) is that they have less of an "accent" when they sing compared with when they speak. But then they don't have to prove their authenticity by "singing in an accent," do they?

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: meself
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:44 PM

This has proven a contentious subject on this forum, for the reason that those who have made a habit if not a career of affecting accents, or AN accent, seem to feel - understandably - under attack when the practice is criticized. So it's one of those subjects that cannot be discussed calmly and amicably for very long ...

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Rowan
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:12 PM

I really believe that all great folk/blues/world singers have sung in their natural voice, and by that I mean they sing/sang in a voice that echoed their natural speaking voice.

Leaving aside any notion that I might aggrandise myself as "great", Tunesmith's proposition has some exceptions, while being generally correct.

Most people speak, most of the time, in a voice that doesn't require much in the way of projection unless they're speaking to a large audience or issuing instructions over distance or ambient noise (to use several examples in my experience); conversational levels don't often require projection. Where projection is required (such as in the examples listed, or when singing, the character (and thus accent) of most voices may change and sometimes the change may be extensive, without the speaker/singer being aware of it. Singing teachers teach, among other things, how to control such changes to produce desired effects.

Another exception to Tunesmith's proposition, in my experience, is where the singer acquires their songs aurally rather than by 'reading'. Using my own experience as an example, I started acquiring songs literally "at my mother's knee" and many of them were sung by family and friends who, even in Oz, had regional accents that were subtly different. I sang the songs with the accents I heard them sung in. This got to the stage where, a quarter of a century later, I was singing some song from Durham to a group of friends in the folk scene in Melbourne; after I'd sung it one came up to me and asked if I'd spent time there as I'd sung it with (to them) a completely authentic accent. Well, I still haven't been to Durham nor even north of Nottingham (I'd heard the song on a mate's LP I suspect) and I thought I was singing it in my normal voice.

Most of you from north of the equator would certainly pick my accent as Oz and never think my "Durham" accent had any resemblance of validity/authenticity but I was just singing what I'd heard. Even now, that's how I learn tunes on the leather ferret, although my fingers certainly don't replicates them with the same felicity as my vocal chords, probably because my vocal chords had had a head start.

And, to add another layer of difference between the "natural" spoken voice and its singing counterpart, I was gobsmacked at how "Oz" my accent was, the first time I heard a tape of it. This was when I worked at the Melbourne distributors of National (now Panasonic), who "did" tape decks and we played around with one; it was my speaking voice but the tape heard an accent that was vastly different from what my ears were hearing; these days (now that I'm used to hearing recordings with my voice cluttering up the sonics) I "think" my singing voice has a similar accent (much of the time) to my speaking voice but there are still differences I can discern. Probably, they are there for the reasons I've suggested.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Def Shepard
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:42 PM

You might find the following useful, glueman,

Songbooks for the Black Country and Birmingham

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Tangledwood
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:36 PM

A poorly executed attempt at another accent really grates on the ears and detracts from the rest of the performance. There's one problem I have though - how do you sing a song containing Scottish vocabulary without slipping into a phoney accent to match it?

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: glueman
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:28 PM

DS I miss hearing Black Country from the days I worked nearby but confess to finding it the most impenetrable sound imaginable. On Saturday we're going over to my wife's family reunion so I'll have to get my yamyam-english, english-yamyam dictionary sorted.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Def Shepard
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:12 PM

glueman said, "Rachel Unthank OTOH, sounds like a lady about to ask who you feckin looking at man woman at the end of each verse."

as well she should :-D

Acents with me are not a good idea, I don't do them well, Except fer me Brummie accent, an' naaa I doy sound loike Ozzy Osbourne :-D

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:09 PM

Rock n Roll sounds daft in any English accent to me, we always used to sing it in a USAian accent. George Faux had an interesting accent for folk music. He could make finger rhyme with window.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: glueman
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:06 PM

Neil Tennant is an example here, singing in impeccable posh, gay, Newcastle. Rachel Unthank OTOH, sounds like a lady about to ask who you feckin looking at man woman at the end of each verse.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Sue Allan
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:00 PM

I have problems with some dialect songs: I know and understand and can speak my local dialect, but have never habitually used it. So I feel I'm singing in a false accent, even though strictly speaking its my native one.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: Bert
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:56 PM

...I really believe that all great folk/blues/world singers have sung in their natural voice...

Hmmm, that of course means that Dylan isn't great.

I always try to sound like myself but with some songs, Manura Manyah, for one, it is difficult. Doesn't stop me singing it though.

Subject: RE: Accents in Folk Music
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:54 PM

Ever hear Rambling Jack Elliot sing 'I belong to Glasgow'?

Subject: Accents in Folk Music
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:50 PM

We've been here before, but the "Peggy Seeger Cockney Leadbelly" thread started me thinking about it again. I really believe that all great folk/blues/world singers have sung in their natural voice, and by that I mean they sing/sang in a voice that echoed their natural speaking voice. Some would argue that you can't sing the blues in a Irish - or whatever, accent. Nonsense! Indeed, if we reverse the arguement we can see how silly such a viewpoint is. For example, if Hank Williams sang Raglan Road should he adopt an Irish accent or would it be better if he used his own natural singing voice? I hope nobody thinks the former!