Tech: Oz eBay-Paypal deemd illegal

Subject: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemed illegal
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Jun 08 - 03:07 AM

eBay's PayPal push hits a competition hurdle

June 13, 2008 07:50am

ACCC halts eBay's PayPal plan
Says move could stifle competition

http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,25642,23856406-5014108,00.html\

ONLINE auction site eBay has failed in its bid to force it customers to use PayPal - a company it owns - to pay for items on the website.

Last night the ACCC said it proposed to revoke eBay's application to enforce the use of PayPal for all transactions, saying it was a threat to competition.

"The ACCC is concerned eBay (would) use its market power to substantially lessen competition," ACCC chairman Graeme Samuel said.

US-based eBay estimates it has about five million Australian users and contributes $2.6 billion to the domestic economy.

The online auction site announced in April that from June 17 it would no longer allow direct deposits, money orders or personal cheques as payment options.

The controversial change would have left buyers and sellers with two options: cash-on-delivery or payment via the online commerce website PayPal.

The management of eBay said the changes were aimed at improving transaction security.

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A comment:
being forced to use paypal we recently purchased from a supplier ,not related to ebay, who also insisted they only accepted paypal for payment. ebay insists that Paypals security is impregnable, however a few days after using it our credit card was hit with over $3000.00 worth of transactions from a merchant from an overseas location that we never had any previous dealings with or knowledge of their existence, although we cannot say that this was because of a paypal transaction, it does leave a lot to be desired, it is suprising how many Australian companys insist you use paypal for payment when we have our own Australian version called Paymate right here in our own back yard, makes you wonder if these companies are receiving a a kick back from Paypal in some way does it not??

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 06:45 PM

Today Oz Ebay sent out an email

"Current policies regarding accepted payment methods still apply. This means PayPal is required on all listings on eBay.com.au. Other payment methods (i.e. bank deposit, cheque/money order) may also be offered until 15 July 2008.

As previously communicated any listings that do not comply with eBay's Accepted Payments Policy will be removed. We strongly recommend that in order to ensure your listings comply with the Accepted Payments Policy you remove any details of payment methods other than PayPal or pay on pick up within the item description. Listings that have other payment methods offered within the payment options field will be allowed to expire as these options will not be displayed to buyers from 15 July 2008.

...

The decision to delay these changes was made by eBay following the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission's (ACCC) draft notice issued on Thursday 12 June 2008.

eBay released a media statement on Friday 13 June regarding the ACCC's draft notice.

Read eBay's statement and community announcement. (http://mail.ebay.com.au/op/c/852463969fII2be0c80daII25a2ac0II88015ff01f)

Please note that some of our onsite communications will still refer to changes taking place on 17 June 2008. These communications are being updated and should reflect the new date of 15 July 2008 within the coming days. "

Looks like they are determined to have a run in with the ACCC...

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: Greg B
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 06:54 PM

Paypal is probably secure.

It's unlikely that your identity-theft problem was related to any
online use--- more likely to be some other terrestrial institution.

However using it strips a purchaser of one of the recourses enjoyed
by credit-card users--- that of disputing a transaction. They insert
their own dispute-resolution system, and it isn't as buyer-oriented
as credit card companies' policies.

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 07:59 PM

Paypal has had a large number of past problems - just search the net - where users have had their funds 'stolen by paypal' etc...

I have had no problems myself with paypal as I refused to use it.

The point here is that their action is illegal under Australian Law, and they are refusing to comply, while BSing about how wonderful they are and how well they are protecting 'users'. Aussies are sick of that sort of crap from Pollies you know... :-)

Funnily enough - I only got the email because I HAD an ebay 'name' YEARS AGO but it was killed by ebay because of ONE wrongful complaint (after many successful purchases by myself) by a seller who had my account killed permanently! I refused to use them since. They seem to have 'ressurected' it... !!!

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 08:30 PM

Interesting! As a stamp collector, I make many purchases on Ebay. They try to push Paypal, but I pay by other means; I deal only with N. AM. and UK, so pay in dollar or sterling money orders or drafts (or credit card if they take it). I have had one or two buys from Australia; I think I got a draft at my bank, but don't really remember.
Some larger dealers say specifically in their offerings on Ebay that they do not use Paypal, and accept plastic or international money orders. They do not use Ebay checkout.

Many offers are made from Asia and continental Europe, but most require Paypal or Moneybookers (sp.?) because of bank charges on money transfers. I just steer clear of their offerings, except for a few that take plastic.

So far, Ebay has not threatened (as far as I know) to make payment by Paypal mandatory in the U. S. or Canada. I wonder if they are making a test case in Australia.
I haven't checked, but I believe that making Paypal mandatory would contravene U. S. and Canadian regulations as well.

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: GUEST,Nicko
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:10 AM

There's no doubt that Ebay are double dipping. If direct deposit and the like are 'unsafe' methods of payment then why can you still pay your ebay fees by any of these methods?! I have recently heard of a case where a young single female has been severely harrased by a buyer who paid COD, and she is now considering moving house because she doesn't feel safe.
How dare they decide how I get paid for an item?

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: Kiss Me Slow Slap Me Quick
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 12:17 PM

As I understad, in the UK, PayPal has to be one way of paying for EBAY items BUT not an exclusive way. Postal orders, cash and cheques are still acceptable. PayPal is fine untill something goes wrong. They are easy enough to phone BUT dealing with someone to who English is not their first language is hopeless. As for their dispute procedure !!! just don't go there, it is geared to-wards crooked sellers and avoiding refunds at all costs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 01:49 AM

Fri Jun 27 5:38
Important update: 15 July changes postponed

Changes to eBay.com.au scheduled for 15 July are being postponed until the review process with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) regarding its recent draft notice is complete. As previously announced, eBay.com.au is continuing to work with the ACCC to achieve an outcome that benefits buyers and sellers.

Changes that came into effect on 21 May 2008, requiring all sellers to offer PayPal, will remain. These changes mean that all buyers have the option of choosing PayPal, the safer payment method for shopping on eBay.com.au. Payment methods that are currently permitted will continue to be allowed on eBay.com.au until further notice.

Other recently introduced safety measures, such as PayPal Seller Protection and increased PayPal Buyer Protection (now up to $20,000) will also remain.

eBay regrets any ongoing uncertainty that this further delay may cause and will advise you of any future plans for implementation following the ACCC process.

As always, eBay appreciates the feedback received from the Community and will use this input to consider where we can make improvements that benefit both buyers and sellers.

eBay remains committed to improving safety and we will continue to look for ways to improve the shopping experience for buyers which will subsequently benefit both sellers and eBay.

Please note that some of our onsite communications may still refer to changes taking place on 15 July 2008. These communications are in the process of being updated.
Regards

The eBay Team

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 02:09 AM

eBay delays mandatory PayPal policy again

By Andrew Ramadge, Technology Reporter

June 27, 2008 02:20pm
Article from: NEWS.com.au

AUCTION website eBay has postponed controversial changes to payment methods for the second time after clashing with the consumer and competition watchdog.

eBay announced in April its plans to force customers to use its PayPal service under security measures prohibiting direct deposit and money orders as payment methods.

The change was originally slated for June 17, but was delayed after the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission expressed concerns the policy could have "anti-competitive effects".

The changes were postponed for a month until July 15 - and have now been delayed indefinitely, the company said.

An email sent to eBay customers today said the PayPal-only policy would not be introduced until the ACCC had made a final decision.

"Changes to eBay.com.au scheduled for 15 July are being postponed until the review process with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) regarding its recent draft notice is complete," it said.

"As previously announced, eBay.com.au is continuing to work with the ACCC to achieve an outcome that benefits buyers and sellers."

eBay executives had sold the changes to payment options as a security measure that would force PayPal to "stand in between buyers and sellers" to reduce the chance of conflict.

"eBay is no longer willing to stand aside and allow payment methods on the site that are proven to be less safe for consumers," said trust and safety director Alistair MacGibbon in April.

However the changes would also allow the company to collect revenue twice from each transaction.

PayPal, which is owned by eBay, charges a fee of between 1.1 and 2.4 per cent per credit card payment, which would be collected on top of existing charges to list and sell items through the auction website.

eBay's email today said all Australian sellers would still be required to accept PayPal transactions as a payment method, but would not yet be forced into using it.

"Changes that came into effect on 21 May 2008, requiring all sellers to offer PayPal, will remain," it said.

"Payment methods that are currently permitted will continue to be allowed on eBay.com.au until further notice."

The company also apologised for recent confusion over the introduction date of the changes, after conflicting messages appeared on the auction website.

"eBay regrets any ongoing uncertainty that this further delay may cause and will advise you of any future plans for implementation following the ACCC process," the email said.

"Please note that some of our onsite communications may still refer to changes taking place on 15 July 2008. These communications are in the process of being updated."

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Personally, since we are now forced to include Paypal and I won't use it, i'm looking for another auction site. I've been gathering together things to sell.

Subject: RE: Tech: Oz Ebay-Paypal deemd illegal
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 10:51 PM

They wouldn't be allowed to say PayPal only in the U.S., so it's surprising that they're trying it there.

SRS