How Much to Charge?

Subject: How Much to Charge?
From: Allan C.
Date: 27 May 99 - 01:49 PM

Susan-Marie suggested that this thread be re-titled. Good idea. However, I was told that although changes can be made/edited in the body of a post, the subject line cannot be altered. So here we are.(But I ain't no guru, S-M!) Here is where to look at previous posts:

This is a link to the thread,"Has there been a thread like this"

Of course, now the answer would be, YES!

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Susan-Marie
Date: 27 May 99 - 05:21 PM

Thanks ALLan - too bad it has to be a new thread, though because I think we're going to be confused about which one to post to.

I've been very encouraged to hear the comments by people who make $100 on a good night and would frankly play for free just for the chance to perform. That's how it is for me and our band, although any money we do make gets contributed to the church we all belong to.

I don't know about making it all a religion though - one thing folk music doesn't need is dogma!

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Fadac
Date: 27 May 99 - 06:00 PM

A little off the subject, but the dogma comment reminded me of an old Mad Mag gag.

Two hippies, one male, the other femail.

F: Oh, you have joined the fredom thinkers, avoiding all the dogma of the man.

M: Yeah.

F: You are wearing a blanket, to show your indaviditaly (sp?).

M: Yeah.

F: Yes, you are an independt person, no however the blanket is the wrong color, it's too short, needs to be hemed up a bit. Shoes, your wearing shoes, wrong, need to change that. Bla bla bla.

M: Yeah.

--- I have a friend that played on the streets of SF one year. Got lots of good experiance. Had to live in the shelter though. Not to be recomended, unless you have a day job. :)

Good luck to anyone who trys to make some money in this biz.

I ruend a nice hobby (Photography) by making money at it once.

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Chet W.
Date: 27 May 99 - 11:07 PM

Hope this helps: I play with one other person. Between us we play about 20 different instruments and we both sing. We do a big variety of styles, mostly centered around old country music (like stringband stuff) to swing and blues and whatever we feel like really. The variety increases the kinds of jobs we can get. We have a good, though not huge, sound system that could fill a thousand seat room if necessary, but we've seldom had to handle that. So, to the point, if we play in a restaurant or a club or a bar, we get $250 a night (three fifty-minute sets) or $450 for two consecutive nights. We do private parties, mostly for well-to-do clients who just want to have live music as an expensive decoration. For a party with the sound system, $350 for three fifty-minute sets, $300 without the sound system. We do a lot of weddings, for which we get $300 for just the wedding or $350 for the wedding and the reception. For a sit-down show (in an auditorium), we expect to get at least $500, depending on the size of the place and what the event is. Of course we play for free a lot, when it's for a charity event or for a friend's wedding or something like that. For other kinds of jobs, like visiting artist shows in a school, we pretty much stick to the $100 per person rule. Neither of us depends on music for a living anymore (there were times when I couldn't have gotten by without it), but my feeling is that if somebody is going to be making money even partly because of my music, then I should get paid for it. Plus, when you think about it, a good musician is one of the most highly-skilled workers anyone will ever have to hire, not to mention the thousands of dollars worth of equipment you bring with you to do the job. (Try renting a machine worth that much and see how much it costs for a day). I hope this does not sound mercenary, but after much consideration and checking around my prices are very reasonable.

Chet W.

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 May 99 - 08:38 AM

It seems to me that it may be helpful to know what part of the world the venues are in. For instance, I am sure that normally one can get a lot more money playing in the clubs of a suburb of a major city, Washington, D.C., for instance. Whereas a steady gig at the Moose Lodge in Fancy Farm, Kentucky might render a somewhat different rate of pay. Also, there is often a notable difference between prices charged for a steady gig as opposed to a one-time shot. It would probably be helpful to know which we are discussing.

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 May 99 - 10:41 AM

Great two threads!!! Whenever I have one of my day job enforced absences from my beloved 'Cat, I always am proud when I come back and see my neighbors hard at work on great threads.

It seems that my hourly rate is always better when I play as a solo as opposed to when I play with the Conklin Ceili Band. Much of the rate we get depends on the venue and the time of the year. Obviously around St. Pat's Day the price is premium. An Uillean Piper friend of mine once said that any eejit can get a grand on that day (he plays in the Chicago area).

I will normally do a couple of "free benefits" per year if the cause is right. The only rule I have is that it can't cost us anything out of pocket. If we need rooms they must be provided. If a non-profit group, such as a church or a heritage organization, etc. approaches us, I will suggest that the band will perform for half the profit generated by the event up to our normal fee. That way, if the event is a bust, which means among other things that we didn't draw well, the club isn't totally on the hook. It also means that if the event is a big success, we get our normal pay and they get the benefit of it. We have never done badly on this system and the organizations have always been willing.

Mick

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 May 99 - 03:47 PM

I'm going to cross my fingers and try to copy the other thread over to this one. If it works, I';ll delete the other thread and maybe things won't be so confusing.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: Has there been a thread like this From: skarpi Date: 27-Mar-99 - 07:12 PM I was wandering, have you ever had discussion about what we get payed for playing at pup or what we can get for a concert. I know there has to be a more than one price, wheather you one or three or five. Do we play two set or more?. In Iceland we play for four ours from ellewen in the night to three a clock in the morning, and you are getting from five hundred us dollar to one thousand and you have to pay tax, in my band are five peoble so we are not getting much in money, but a lot of good and happy memories and lot of fun. sl n skarpi Iceland.

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: katlaughing Date: 27-Mar-99 - 07:50 PM Skarpi, First: I always enjoy reading your postings so much! They are so interesting, fun and such an integral part of the Mudcat! Thank you! From my most recent experience: I was asked to be a guest at an arts evening last summer, by a nonprofit arts organisation. I read my essays and poems for about 30 minutes then a really good jazz band played for 30 minutes, then I read another 30, then they played another 30. We each were paid an "honourarium" of $50.00. Which, considering the actual time I spent reciting (1 hour) was not bad, for this market. My guess is, a lot of people are going to say the market you are playing in has a lot to do with how much to charge. This should be an interesting thread. Thanks for starting it. katlaughing

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Don Meixner Date: 27-Mar-99 - 08:02 PM Skarpi, $100.00 a man a night isn't bad pay for most of us out here in the business. This is a hard topic for many of us to discuss. What we need to earn for playing music is sometimes hard to figure out. From your lowest estimate for what amounts to 4 hours playing time you are getting $25.00 an hour. Not bad wages. But add to that the time you take to set up and tear down after a job. Say an hour each and and now you are earning $16.66 and hour, this is still pretty good wages for what is to many of us a part time job. Did you have to travel far to get to the job? I some times travel an hour each way and if we add that to the mix we are now making $12.50 an hour. Many skilled laborers in the U.S. earn this wage and feed families on this money. Did you practice this week with the band? Say a total of four hours? That makes the hourly wage now $ 8.33 dollars and hour. These figures are off a $100.00 pay for a job. If you pay taxes on that money your hourly rate goes down considerably. Then add in the tangible expenses. New strings, gas for the trip, food on the road, New wires for the mics now and then, A new instrument, being a performer is very low pay for most of us in the business. How do we earn more money and not price ourselves out of a job? The bar owner has to make money before he can pay us so we can't raise our prices too much too often. I have an Irish musician friend in Washington, DC who says he would play most jobs for free just to be able to sell his CDs and tapes. Last year he avereaged $3.00 from CDs and tapes for every $1.00 for engagement fees. We don't all do this well and some of us have nothing to sell, I'm thinking of a line of ties and recipe books myself. My friend would never do these gigs for free, imagine the precedent that would set, YIKES! How I figure my worth? When I do a single I charge $100.00 for most performances based on an 8 hourday and $ 12.50 an hour. But I'm not doing this fulltime and I can very easily give the job away for a worthy cause which I do very often. Some other things to consider. I am not a union musician and I won't ever be one. (These are fighting words to some and a yawn for others.) If there is a problem with some venues about hiring a non union musician for a job, I don't play there. I will not confront and I will not scab either, I just won't join the union. Never play for free just for the exposure or you will always be asked to play for free. Remember, no matter what you do, charge something for a job, people have to pay for the art. I charge a token fee for most benefits. But there are always exceptions. This ramble is long enough others will have opinions I'm sure. Some will suit your situation and some won't. Good luck Don Line breaks added. Izzat better, Don? -Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: DonMeixner Date: 27-Mar-99 - 08:05 PM I just reread this post of mine. I used paragraph breaks and everything like that there. Sorry about the jumble of words, I hope they aren't too hard to read. DRM

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Mikal Date: 27-Mar-99 - 11:16 PM This is interesting. As I have explained before, I am not a musician, nor would I ever be mistaken for one. But, I am a storyteller, and I get booked, (on rare occasions) for about $200 US a night. That would be about two hours of storytelling to a mixed audience, 100 or so at a time, 30 min. each set. Of course I have given it away for free, (hey, I do it regularly for churches and re-enactors.) But then I usually take it off my taxes as charitable work. Now I know. I am getting about the same wage as most Folksingers! Mikal

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: SeanM Date: 27-Mar-99 - 11:36 PM Bravo to Mikal for getting as much as he does! Storytelling is a resurgent art, but still underrepresented. From my experiences, I'd have to side with Don. My band averages around $100 each (5 members) per day. Sometimes, we can get more, but we usually concentrate on intangibles... lodging for multi day gigs, meals, beer, etc... whatever we can get. But compared to the hundreds of dollars a month we spend on commuting to gigs/rehearsals, parts of and entire new instruments, other equipment, etc., well, it's a labor of love. As much as we'd like to be, for the near future it looks like we're not doing it for the money. In the meantime, on the off chance that someone who's a regular member of the folk audience crowd wanders through, Support your local Folkie! We appreciate it! Really! Sorry... Couldn't resist... M

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Allan C. Date: 27-May-99 - 11:57 AM I just re-discovered this thread and wanted to refresh it. I am sure there are more out there with useful comments.

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Susan-Marie Date: 27-May-99 - 12:37 PM Can one of the HTML gurus change the title or add to it so people know the topic is "what do folkies get paid"? There would be much more interest that way.

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Art Thieme Date: 27-May-99 - 12:47 PM Best pay I ever had (could demand) was when I was working playing steady every other day on steamboats 6 months a year for a decade. Having the security of steady work (rare for us folksingers who started in the early 60s and sought/mimicked a blue-collar image) gave me the freedom to quote higher than ever before. And usually I'd get it. When times were lean I'd quote less & come down quick when rebuffed. But when times were hard if someone offfered me $50.00 I'd often say, "If that's all you can pay you must need it more than I do"---then I'd offer to do a benefit for them free. Either they'd up the fee to at least a hundred bucks or accept the benefit--'cause they really needed it. And I was happy to do it. Good causes are everywhere in these flush times when so many are deprived but invisible in the blinding light if the Donald Trumps of this world. Storytellers are not(generally) from the ethic of us lefty bluecollar emulators who put pebbles in our boots so we could have the same kind of pain Woody had when we hit those hot dusty roads. We thought it'd make us write like him. The storytellers come from the security of library jobs with good cash & health insurance & reliable cars. Being white collar, they are accustomed to big money and most get it at their festivals. They get much better cash than folkies in schools too. The schools are not inner city ones; they're affluent suburban beautious edifices that can afford a thousand a day for feel good tales with few supernatural references etc. Just one man's opinion--and experience. Art Thieme

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Matthew B. Date: 27-May-99 - 12:57 PM Whenever I sing "professionally," I introduce myself as Matt don't-quit-your-day-job Bram. Fortunately for me, my "day job" pays very well, thank you. If I had to rely on folksinger's wages, I'd be totally broke. In fact, my potential income from singing is so scant that I just forgo payment altogether, rather than complicate my taxes. If my client insists on paying, I usually tell him to figure out a fair sum and give it to the charity of his choice. Not exactly a career you can use for putting you kids through college, is it?

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: reggie miles Date: 27-May-99 - 02:16 PM Don, that just about sums up my experience as well. I've come to realize that this endeavor is more of a religion than a business, not quite sure why I'm so devoted to it. Given the financial success of most of the religions around today it seems to me they've all become much more like a business. I'm thinkin' we should just turn this music thing into a religion. We'll get that tax break we need. We can build concert halls, I mean temples, with all the donations we solicit. We'll get our own cable stations, in no time we'll be buildin' our own universities. Just think of it, graduating from Blue U., Swing U., Folk U., or Voodooacidsportsrockfusion U. Oh there I go dreamin' again. Reggie

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Allan C. Date: 27-May-99 - 02:47 PM I took Susan-Marie's suggestion and, though it wasn't possible to rename this thread, I created a new one with a title which more clearly identifies its purpose. This is a link to the thread, "How Much to Charge?"

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Richard Bridge Date: 27-May-99 - 02:50 PM Good thread. Now go and read the MP3 thread and start figuring how musicians need protection under strong copyright laws to be able to make a living. Also go and read the thread about how clubs survive when they have to pay musicians - and without clubs how do people start playing in public. I play for nothing. But that's because the alternative is having people pay me to stop playing and singing and go away, or the club we run folding if too many of the residents opt out.

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Matthew B. Date: 27-May-99 - 09:48 PM Reggie, I LOVE your idea about starting a religion. I'll gladly convert, especially for the tax break. But seriously, I do feel closer to God (or whatever her name is) when singing than at any other time. And I'm not just talking about the "nice" stuff: a good Haul Away for Rosie-o can pull me closer to Heaven than an hour of Bible study.

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Cap't Bob Date: 27-May-99 - 11:16 PM We usually get somewhere between $100 and $150 usually doing 2 to 3 sets. The best was one St. Patricks Day gig when we received $280 apiece and they threw in dinner and breakfast. It was a long one however, starting around 6 p.m. and ending about 2 a.m. Of course time goes fast when you are having fun. If it is a fund raiser for some local group we get $50 each and sometimes depending upon the cause donate the money to the group. Due to work, family matters, young ones in sports, we are lucky to play 3 or 4 times a year. Day jobs help as it would be rather difficult to live on 400 to 600 a year. Cap't Bob

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Joe Offer Date: 28-May-99 - 03:22 AM Reggie, be careful what you wish for. Very few church musicians can make a living on their music. I think the going rate here is $50 a service. If you want to take the time to practice with the choir, that's on your own time, without pay. I sing with a pianist-choir director who does four services every Sunday (split between two churches). That's a fair income, but it runs her ragged. I don't get paid myself for the two Masses I sing at every Sunday, but I have a good time doing it. -Joe Offer-

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: reggie miles Date: 28-May-99 - 09:59 AM Joe, I was merely drifting off into a bit of a silly rant earlier, not based in reality but rather jo-viality. I mean sometimes you just got to laugh to keep from cryin' about this situation. With all these years dedicated to this and so little financial success to show for it, as Don and the others mentioned. Hey I'm not complainin' really, there are other rewards less tangible that can't be counted. Once we throw a pebble into a pond or sing a song or post to a thread at a cyber site, one never knows what consequences will result or how our actions will affect those around us. My friend Robert Oneman Johnson has a good line in a song about his grandfather called "Grampa Shine", "Grampa Shine said to me Bob, it's a man's only job, to make as many people happy as he can." Reggie

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 28-May-99 - 10:57 AM Let's end this thread as suggestion and move over to the other one How Much to Charge. I am not a neatnik or a control freak, but I like things to be simple. I want to read this information on one thread instead of two. It will also make it easier for everyone to join in. Good topic Skarpi although one that is somewhat sensitive. Roger in Baltimore <1>Here's the new thread in case you missed it!

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 28-May-99 - 11:03 AM Oops, I checked my work and it was poorly done. I'm a'gonna try again. If'n it don't work, I'll give up. Perhaps Joe Offer can fix it if I mess up. Lord, I don't want to go back to HTML school. Maybe Joe could fix me instead of the thread. <1>Here's the new thread!. Roger in Baltimore (hiding under the desk so no one will find me)

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Subject: RE: Has there been a thread like this From: Mudjack Date: 28-May-99 - 11:26 AM How much pay to a non pro is really a matter of how much you can get or how much will they pay. I have recieved as much as $200 and as little as a bad lunch. Either case it was all worth while. When a person accepts payment for something he or she is apt to do for nothing should probably be a "thank you" for helping them support their favorite hobby/pastime. There is always the danger of harming relations between the pros and the hobby performers. I always respect the pros and support their efforts the best I can by attending their venues and buying their product. I truly envy them as I think I could have been a working performer, but my need for a steady reliable income dictates a higher prioity. Which simply means I don't have the guts to go out there and try it. I also think one might loose the lust for it if it comes down to wanting to do a gig verses have to do a gig. Wow! $200 for one hour I made, I came home telling my wife I'd like to do this all the time and promptly did some calculations and asked her if we could make it on $200 a week? Needless to say I went to work my day job the next morning. This is a fun thread....Mj

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 May 99 - 04:10 PM

Hey, it worked! Now, back to the discussion.

Reggie, your idea of starting a religion might work, if you're a preacher, but not if you're going to try to make money as a church musician. the musicians don't make money unless they go outside the cheuch and head for the marketplace - of course, they may have to sell their souls to make money....
Same with folk music. If you're interested in preserving your principles, don't expect the Big Bucks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 28 May 99 - 04:21 PM

I volunteer at a small venue (maximum 60 seats) that offers "folk music" every Thursday night September through May. The venue is in the meeting room of a local restaurant and is operated under non-profit tax status. The only paid help is the performers. Because it is a restaurant people are able to order meals to eat just before and during the show.

We draw performers from up and down the Eastern Coast of the USA. Most of the performers are working music as a full-time occupation. Many have loyal, full-time employed significant others at home. Some of the performers are part-time in the music business.

I don't work the business end, but I believe we pay performers 60 - 70% of the gate with a guaranteed minimum fee of $100 or $150. Most tickets are $10, sometimes it is $12. We feed the performer dinner and will put them up in a nice house (nicer than mine, and mine is OK)for a night (or sometimes two).

In addition, we provide staff to sell the performers tapes and CD's (usually referred to as "product" yuck!).

There are nights we may draw only 10 or 15 people and other nights we turn people away. We as much "free" PR aw we can . We have a web-site, a large mailing list and we distribute to all of the local papers. We have a core of 6 -10 people who show up every Thursday and plunk down their money.

I am digressing. If we draw 10 people at $10 bucks, the performer gets the minimum of $100 to $150. If 5 of those people buy CD's, the performer may make another $50.

Financially this is night was not truly monetarily rewarding for the performer. The upside is that the performer has developed some contacts in our area and some of our audience is well-connected to the "folk-scene" in the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan area. Another gig next time through may draw more or another venue may decide to book the artist on word of mouth. In industry speak they have created some "buzz" in a new area.

On the other hand, we could fill the house with 50 customers at $12 a head and the artist may sell as many as 15 CD's. Now it is a $510 night and is drifting into a profitable undertaking.

There are some good books on how to make money in the music business. Working at this venue has made it clear to me that I am not willing to work that hard to fulfill a dream of working as a musician full-time. There is a signicant amount of work aside from practice that goes into full-time performing. At the start, most performers will be their own publicist and their own booking agent. Later they may be able to hire others, but at the start it is perhaps a one person show.

Thought a few from one part of the venue side may be helpful to everyone. If I find time, I will try to dig out those good books that discuss how to do all of this.

Big RiB

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Chet W.
Date: 28 May 99 - 07:02 PM

If it helps, my price quotes above are for Columbia, SC, metropolitan area about 250,000. The price does not necessarily increase in a big market because there's more competition, and a lot of people (especially in college towns, for some reason) who are willing to play for free. I say, provide a quality product and sell it for what it's worth. It helps a lot when you don't absolutely need the money to eat with. I look at it now as not only a passion but also an expensive hobby that I can at least make pay for itself. I'm confused; where is this thread anyway?

Chet W.

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: puzzled
Date: 29 May 99 - 01:51 AM

We come from a rural area and have to drive (some times for a couple hours) to every gig. Our charges vary greatly. We have played folk venues for $150 minumun guarenteed against 70% of the gate. And we have played for all the gate without any guarentee. We like both those options because we draw well and usually make pretty good money. Though we have had bad weather nights that barely made us $50 a piece. We have also played for as little as $50 for the whole group in new markets for the benefit of an Art Assoc. or civic group or some charity. I don't particularly like doing this and usually think of it as a paid rehearsal and an opportunity to make new contacts. We won't play for free period. Playing small town festivals we want $200 a piece, willingly go down to $150 if asked and will accept $100 a piece if they won't hire us for more and we don't have another paying gig possibility on that date.
I have some friends that booked a small auditorium in a college town, hired a sound crew, advertised themselves, charged $10 a ticket (even to friends - no freebies). They cleared about $600 a piece after expenses. I'm impressed. My band is going to try it.
I also play solo. Nursing homes, parties, brown bag lunches at libraries, you name it. Most of these gigs are short 30 to 45 minutes. For them i ask at least $100 and almost always get it. occasionally i will play for $50, esp if it is close to home. Some business parties or conventions i charge more and almost always get it.
Here's what i do when a business calls about a summer party or a convention or a Christmas party or whatever for either me or my band. When they ask how much we cost, I ask how much they have in the budget. If it is way higher than we normally charge i drop it down by a few hundred bucks and tell them that they are lucky because we can save them some money. If their budget hits our target, i tell them that is good we will play for that. If it is lower than what we want, I try to get them to think about how much we add to their event and try to get them to come up. They usually do.
all that said: it is a lot easier to play than it is for me to deal with the business end of this music business. And i keep the fact that i am doing it because i love it in the fore front of my mind. And therefore, our fees vary greatly.

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 May 99 - 11:16 AM

First gig I ever did was at a coffeehouse called the Limelight in Chicago's Hyde Park area. (1960) I played for 25% of the ddor.

Went home with .25----one paying customer.

Pay got better as I got better---and better known.

Some actor (don't recall his name), said, "There are 4 stages to a career: 1)Who is -------? 2)Get me------! 3)Get me a ------ type! 4)Who is--------?

Stage 2 is the only one where you'll get decent cash----probably more than you're worth--but not as much as you think you are worth.

Time wounds all heels!

Art

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 08:47 PM

The actor I mentioned was Hugh O'Brien!

Art

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Jun 99 - 10:12 PM

Art.

I heard that story too only it was Jack Elam.

Don

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 12:00 AM

Questions to ask when negotiating a fee...

1) How many does the hall (or hole) hold?

2) How many people usually come?

3) Do you get any funding?

4) How much do you charge?

4) How will you promote the gig?

This way you can get an idea of the proceeds which may be available and you can ask for a fair share. Good luck.

All the best,
Dan

P.S. Has anybody heard from Skarpi lately?

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 03:02 AM

And I heard it from John Larroquette (bet I spelled it wrong). He had 5 phases:

Who's John Larroquette? Get me John Larroquette. Get me a John Larroquette type. Get me a young John Larroquette. Who's John Larroquette?

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: skarpi Iceland
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 08:45 AM

Hello folks. I have had a problem with my computer, but I am coming back to the mudcat this week. Then I will join this thread. slán go foil skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Les B
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 10:36 AM

The groups I play with, in southwestern Montana, get everything from free beer to food to $50 bucks an hour (for the whole group) for a large, "loose" group, to $100 a person per 3-4 hour gig for a smaller, "tight" group. One thing we do -- for the big group gigs, where it's not worth divvying up $2 each -- is put all the money in a "kitty" during the year (sometimes a thousand dollars or more)and have a blow-out musicians picnic in the summer with gourmet food and imported beer. That makes the playing all worth while. I really related to Mudjack's comments about getting excited over the $200 gig. There's a bumper sticker one of our local music stores has that says "Real musicians have day jobs !"

Subject: RE: How Much to Charge?
From: Rick
Date: 08 Jun 99 - 10:55 AM

I've re-entered the business after years of treating it as a hobby. I eased back in by busking on the streets. There, if I made enough to pay for gas, meals, and guitar strings I figured the day or evening was a success. But to the point:

Now I have a steady gig for two nights a week at a bar. I only make $50 a night, with one night being a full night of maybe 3 or four 45 minute sets and the second being a "dinner show" where I pretty much do one long 90 or even 120 minute set. When the owner sheepishly offered me $50 a night I told him that back when money was a problem for me I'd have been damn glad to see $50 and now that money isn't a problem I'd consider it a paid rehearsal and worth the experience.

So now I'm getting 140 shows a year under my belt and being paid 7000$US/yr for going to "performer school", polishing my act and learning what it really takes to be a pro: consistency. Playing well when maybe you really don't feel like it. Making the best of a bad night or audience. Keeping your concentration when all around you are losing theirs.

If you're in this with the express purpose of making money, you're in the wrong business. If you feel a need to figure rehearsal time into your expenses, you're in the wrong business unless you're a session musician. If it takes you an hour each to set up and tear down your equipment, you might be in the wrong business and should definitely find and fix the problem.

Never play for free, and never let them pay you in food/alcohol, and you'll probably turn out OK in the long run