IMRO?? (Irish Musical Rights Organization)

Subject: IMRO??
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:34 PM

I have having lunch in a pub in Castlepollard and there was decal on the door stating that the pub supported the Irish Musical Rights Organization (IMRO).

What's the IMRO?

The only music was an old fella at the bar who sang "My Way."

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: GUEST,Gweltas1
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 06:50 PM

Dear Rapaire,
IMRO is the Irish Music Rights Organisation, which deals in all matters of royalties relating to copyrighted songs. If you paste the following link into your browser there is a comprehensive explanation of IMRO's various functions ( Sorry I don't know how to make a blue clicky!) http://www.imro.ie/about/
Best Regards,
Gweltas1

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 10:15 PM

Thanks. I was wondering.

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 02:29 AM

They are your local Mafia branch
If you set up a session, they'll send the boys around on the basis that some of it *might* be copyrighted music. The 'boys' will probably be from CCE, who are giving their full support to their activities.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 03:04 AM

So that old guy who was singing 'My Way' better watch it... it's still in copyright so the 'Boys' will be round to steal his beer and piss on his dentures.

LTS

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:42 AM

I thought it was written on the bit of paper that theynailed to Jeus' cross.

Or was that IMHO?

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 05:42 AM

Those initials also stand for the Internal Macedonian Resistance Organisation ... just thought I'd mention it ...

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 08:14 AM

So perhaps the pub got into trouble in the past?

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 18 Jun 08 - 11:33 AM

IMHO = in my humble opinion
IMRO = in my royal opinion

Users of the second acronym are harder to get along with than users of the first. Usually.

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Gulliver
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 11:03 AM

The Chairman of IMRO is Keith Donald, ex-Moving Hearts, and the Board of Directors include Paul Brady, Eleanor McEvoy and the great Niall Toner, ie, some of my favourite musicians. I'd hardly call them "Mafia".

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Declan
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 08:31 PM

As far as I know IMRO is a local Irish affiliate of the Performing Rights Society (PRS) who's main job is to ensure that musicians, songwriters and the like get the appropriate royalties for their work.

Some of their more enthusiastic field officers have been rumoured to employ slightly dubious tactics in getting the owners of pubs and other businesses to ensure they sign up even if they only have a radio on at the tea break. And pubs have been known to ban sessions on the premeis rather than pay up the cost to affiliare.

Seems a bit more cop on is required if musicians (particularly those who play in sessions for fun) are not to lose out.   I'd be surprised if any of the board members mentioned above would want to see music or musicians suffer as a reault of the organisation's activities.

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 06:24 AM

Gulliver
The latest stunt is to insist on payment "in case' copyrighted music is played at a session - what name would you give people who behaved like that?
When it was proposed that 'arrangements' of Irish music fall under their magic spell Comhaltas stongly opposed the move - until it was offered a cut in the takings. It would seem that the term 'Mafia' can be more widely applied.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Howard Jones
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 04:08 PM

This is much the same debate as has gone on over similar tactics by PRS in the UK. On the one hand, it's only right that a composer gets recompense for his work, if its played. It's almost certain that at some point in a session something will be played which is copyright. It's also unrealistic to expect (a) session musicians to put in a detailed return of what's been played and (b) to expect PRS/IMRO or whoever to analyse it in detail and charge the venue accordingly. So charging a fee in the expectation that copyright material will be performed has some logic.

On the other hand, when it's non-commercial performance then charging the venue an unrealistic fee seems over the top. Especially when the mechanism for distributing the fees to composers is so crude that anyone whose music gets played in a folk session is unlikely to get anything.

I've mentioned it before, but a folk club I was involved in was nearly shut down because the PRS jobsworth based the fee on the potential capacity of the room rather than the size of the average audience (and also because his attitude offended the landlord),

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 01:51 AM

Not to send this discussion off into a tangent, for me it is one of the reasons why you need to define the term 'folk music' clearly.
If you are going to call yourselves a folk club and then present an evening of music which isn't in the public domain, you are issuing an open invitation to the men in suits (can't ever remember seeing Paul Brady nor Eleanor McEvoy wearing a suit, but you know what I mean!)
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Rapparee
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 05:17 PM

What if it's your own material? Or if you write a new arrangement for a trad work?

I'm glad I'm not in the position of having to decide these things.

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Gulliver
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 11:25 PM

I've been attending/singing at/playing at sessions for years all around Dublin and cannot recall hearing an adverse word said about IMRO. So I cannot understand what Jim Carrol is on about. When did he ever play in a session? Talk about the hurler on the ditch...

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 08 - 02:41 AM

Gulliver
Perhaps you attend the wrong sessions - you really ought to get out more.
Apart from the evidence on the ground that I have already given, there's Labhrás's 'deal with the devil'
Jim Carroll

Phoenix Dec 6th 2002
"Ó Murchú's ability to use the Seanad to push the interests of CCE was never clearer than with the passage of the Copyright Bill in 1999 which was initially opposed by the senator despite the fact that the Government was pushing it through. In this case, he put Comhaltas before FF but in a most Machiavellian manner, managed to end up onside at the end of the day after tying up a very unusual deal with the Irish Music Rights Organisation (IMRO) whereby CCE was issued a blanket licence "to cover all official Comhaltas functions".
The Letter of Agreement also stated that IMRO would fund CCE to the tune of €63,500 annually and also provided for an annual €32,000 subvention for the Brú Ború venue run by Ó Murchú's wife, Una. No other CCE centre was mentioned.
In return, CCE agreed "to support IMRO's submission to the Department of Enterprise, Trade & Employment in relation to the proposed Copyright Bill". In other words, Ó Murchú did a U-turn on his stance on the Bill but only when he protected CCE from the clutches of IMRO. Clearly, other traditional music bodies - outsiders in his eyes - could fend for themselves."

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 08 - 03:14 AM

PS,
Music that only musicians are allowed to comment on - I never thought of that!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Gulliver
Date: 29 Jun 08 - 08:52 PM

They are your local Mafia branch
If you set up a session, they'll send the boys around on the basis that some of it *might* be copyrighted music. The 'boys' will probably be from CCE, who are giving their full support to their activities.

I've set up sessions, and I know many people who have done the same (the latest being the North Wicklow Singing Circle)--for example the folks in my Sunday session have been playing twice a week for twenty years. They don't seem to have had this problem. Can you name some sessions where this has occurred?

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:25 AM

It was posted on a thread here some time ago, as were similar reports in connection with their British counterpart.
It's pretty much what the deal with CCE is all about. Suggest you read through some of the back threads - it's getting to be a major concern.
I've never been asked to produce a television license - but I know a man who has.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:42 AM

I would have thought the sensible thing was for amateur performance to be exempt,in other words floorsingers at folkclubs are exempt,ITM sessions where no money is exchanged,exempt,singers clubs exempt,except if they book guests.,and have a capacity of less than 200.,or a regular attendance of less than 100.
as a member of IMRO,I get pissed off by the money they waste on sending out glossy pamphlets,what would suit me better,would be a cheque in the post,I have found them to be less effecient in collecting any songwriting royalties than PRS and Iregret the day I changed from PRS to IMRO.
I believe they should also exempt small venues that have a capacity of 200 peopleor less.,or have a regular attendance of less,art centres should not be exempted,I for one would be prepared to forgo royalties if it meant that small venues,where I could possibly gig remained open.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: pavane
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 05:35 AM

Lawmakers have no sense, nor any concept of the impact of their legislation. And they don't care anyway, unless it affects their pockets.

So we kill off live music? So what. Plenty of canned music (but who will make itin future?).

So we kill off small companies? Who cares. (But where did the big ones come from?)

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 08:32 AM

I'm sorry I brought this up. I didn't mean to restart The Troubles, only to satisfy my curiousity about a decal I saw on a pub door.

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 01:17 PM

As far as I'm concerned the subject needs to be brought to the attention of people concerned with the future of clubs and sessions - they haven't even started yet!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Gulliver
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 03:59 PM

Mike, your query was answered quite adequately in the second post, by that guest poster. Of course a certain person will use anything as an excuse to come gallivanting in with his interminable grudge against CCE. Having spent 3 years in Naples and seeing how the real Mafia (Comorra) operate I was loath to see some of my favourite musicians in IMRO associated with them.   Don

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 04:10 PM

Gulliver,
Answer the points made - don't hide behind smears
Certain Person

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:57 PM

one of my local comhaltas branches is full of pioneers[temperance movement],I am sure as anti alcohol campaigners they wouldnt be too sorry to see traditonal music removed from public houses .
they like to promote traditional music as long as they are doing the promoting,and some of them would like to see it played but preferably under their auspices.,rather than in pubs.
at the same time they do a great job getting children to play music /socialise in a safe environment.
comhaltas is an organisation that is a bit of a curates egg,they[most of them] are well intentioned,their competition system is a two edged sword,it certainly has encouraged a lot of people to play.
but the competition system needs a radical overhaul,their system of marking has produced an over importance on ornamentation,their intention was to prerserve the music [well they have altered it and are moving in the direction of producing a homogeonised style]
the examination system is a better idea[imo].
IMRO like Comhaltas and the EU suffer from mindless bureaucracy.
Dick Miles

Subject: RE: IMRO??
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Jul 08 - 02:02 AM

The branches kept music alive during the Dark Ages, when it was contemptuously referred to as 'diddly-di' music; I go along with most of what the Cap'n said.
The leadership - well - that's another matter entirely.
As Breandan Breathnach once said 'it's an organisation which would very much benefit from a beheading'.
Jim Carroll