Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?

Subject: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 03:30 AM

Just looked at the Microsoft manual downloads site and it lists Widows XP Service Pack 3 as a download. It says a lot of it is just a catch up on the routine patching of security flaws in (almost every part of) windows, but it claims to add some extras as well.
Further checking says it was released a couple of months back but hasn't been included as part of the Automatic Updates system, but is likely to be during July.
There is info on MS's web site and I expect I can find stuff out by trailing through the Techie web, but I thought I would ask if anyone here has already installed it, and does it cause any problems with your system?
Is it a run and forget, or does it alter anything significant, trash useful non-microsoft programmes (or even their own), interfere with your daily running of your computer etc...
Are the "extras" good, bad or indifferent.
Thanks in advance.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 03:57 AM

I installed SP3 a couple of weeks ago over my up-to-date SP2. I've had no problems to date, and I use quite a lot of old or unusual programs.

I also added it on a fresh XP install on an Acer laptop, and that seems OK too.

I think there was a problem with some AMD-based computers, but no trouble on mine. It might have been particular manufacturers only - certainly HP/Compaq have had trouble and advised users not to use SP3.

Phil

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: My guru always said
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 04:15 AM

Had it on my auto updates a few weeks ago too, probably because I'm running LiveOne Care. No problems with mine Geoff, but you're wise to ask as there were problems with SP2 as I recall.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: GRex
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 04:16 AM

I installed SP3 several weeks ago from a Microsoft automatic download and like Newport Boy, I've had no problems at whatsoever.

            GRex

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 04:34 AM

Same as Newport Boy - came in on auto-update a few weeks ago and I had no problems on my AMD based machine.

Service Packs usually consolidate a lot of previous updates (they're only issued rarely; how many years is it since SP2?) and I think it would be foolish to ignore it.

Mick

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: Nick
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 04:51 AM

Colleague a work has updated his machine and to my knowledge has noticed nothing particularly different or had any problems I'm aware of

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 04:53 AM

Ditto here. I've put it onto two laptops, Hewlett-Packard and Fujitsu-Siemans, and it's run-&-forget. (Dunno about the extras, haven't tried anything.) Sounds like you're pretty safe unless your computer is unusual in some way.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 05:17 AM

I see that XP's execution date is officially set. Does anyone know if the security & critical updates will end as of 2009 or continue to 2014? Free support continues until mid 2009, after which you must pay - but I'm not exactly sure what "support" means - ??

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=1456&tag=nl.e589

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 11:28 AM

There have been several problems with WinXP SP3, and it's been on and then off and then back on the automatic update list. At last report, all the problems had been solved and it was back on again. Most of the glitches have been related to specific hardware, and if you don't have the problem machine then even earliest releases are probably okay, although sharing with someone who might have the problem hardware could be a problem.

The story is that if you're current with SP2 and all the critical updates there's no particular rush to get SP3. I checked about a week ago, and my System Information still shows SP2+updates.

Because WinXP is nearing the end of its support life, there could be difficulties getting all the updates if you need to reinstall the OS, so it would seem like a good idea to get the download and archive it, so you can reinstall SP3 after reinstalling from your original disks. Thus far though, I haven't seen an obvious place to get the full SP3 download in archivable form.

For SP2 they offered a free update CD, and there actually was a KB article with a procedure you could use to copy your original disk to a folder on your hard drive, then copy the SP2 disk to a separate folder, and "run" the SP2 update on the original version. Once done you could burn a "new OS original" to a CD so that you could install to SP2 in one step instead of having to install WinXP and then run the SP2 update. I haven't seen anything like this for SP3, because although it would be helpful.

Microsoft doesn't know the meaning of "free support" since they will NOT support the OS if it came loaded on your machine as an OEM version, and if you buy a "shrink wrapped" retail package (called the FRP version - for "Full Retail Package") free support is only good for 90 days from your first call.

What they will support for free (sort of) is their frequent critical updates. Support for "optional updates" is variable. To get free support, you have to log in, give them a credit card number, and promise to pay an amount that they'll decide on later, and "they might decide later" that it's free.

The 2009 date is when they will stop giving you automatic updates, although you should still be able - for some indeterminate time - to check in to see if there are new critical updates, as even Win98SE users can do now. Also, after that date, you won't be eligible for anything they consider "optional."

(As of the last reasonably coherent press release I saw, a couple of weeks ago.)

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: 8_Pints
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 06:48 PM

I have installed SP3 on all three of my machines but had considerable trouble down loading onto my last machine due the amount of free disc space space required (460 Mb required, even more if performed from a CD).

Otherwise no noticeable difference.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: Snuffy
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 07:34 PM

I put it on several machines at work - no problems

I put it on my ex-wife's desktop - no problems

I put it on my own desktop - every time it boots up I get a couple of warning boxes coming up, saying a program associated with my wireless router can't find the entry point in a certain .dll file. Annoying, but doesn't seem to have any other effects.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 04:15 AM

Thanks for the feedback so far, folks, in particular the informed technical opinions from John in Kansas!
So the situation seems to be that it shouldn't cause any particular problems, but as long as the computer already has SP2 installed and the regular patches for all the XP security holes, there isn't much in SP3 you won't already have covered.
I daresay I will get around to installing SP3, but if there is nothing REALLY urgent about doing so, I'll not bother this week.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 05:13 AM

The only thing I know about it is that I was asked if I'd heard anything about it by a friend who does some basic adult IT teaching in classes held in a local primary school.

He was aware that the school's (as far as I can gather he's council or whatever) IT expert decided against SP3 (possibly at least for now).

I'm not sure why. Only thing I know is the PCs are not the HP AMDs.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 08:50 AM

Snuffy's comment answers why we are having a problem with one of the dll programs related to Office 2003 and Excel particularly on our laptops. Hmmm.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: olddude
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 09:13 AM

Retired Computer Science Professor here and I have a software company. If you have AMD's I would suggest holding off a couple of months. Only because I don't know what programs you are using and in my case some of my development packages didn't like it much at all. Most home users however probably ok, but some of the dll's seem to cause intermitting problems on business apps like office 2003 or other non microsoft vendors business apps

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 12:32 PM

Installed on my HP Pavilion desktop, with AMD Athlon XP1700 CPU.

No probs, in fact it runs faster and smoother. No program issues either, tho' I run MS Office 2000SP2.

All in All, I am pleased with it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 26 Jun 08 - 01:34 PM

RE: The DEATH OF WINXP -

From Joe Wilcox, a usually knowledgeable commentator on Microsoft at Ziff Davis' "Microsoft Watch:"

"A letter from Bill Veghte, [Microsoft] senior vice president of the Online Services & Windows Business group, affirms that after June 30 Microsoft will suspend OEM distribution of Windows XP. The extension some people advocated isn't happening."

"But vestiges of XP distribution will continue, since system builders can continue shipping the operating system through Jan. 31, 2009. They acquire the software from distributors. Now this is interesting: "All OEMs, including major OEMs, have this option.""

(Note: No identification or definition of "distributors" is known.)

" … businesses have two downgrade rights options, which work similarly with Windows Vista as they did with Windows XP. Volume licensing subscribers can "downgrade" from the Vista preinstalled on their PCs to XP. He also affirms something already announced by Dell and HP:

"(Quoting Veghte) 'Some of our OEM partners are planning to offer services designed to help business customers that buy these versions of Windows Vista on new PCs to exercise their downgrade rights. This is a great value because it lets you use Windows XP on new PCs today if you need it and then make the move to take advantage of the additional capabilities of Windows Vista when you are ready, without having to pay for an upgrade.'"

The "downgrade rights" apply primarily to those with "volume licenses" and appear to apply only to a couple of Vista versions. With the numerous available Vista versions, and the sloppy nomenclature that prevails, it's difficult to tell whether a downgrade right applies to most individuals who might acquire a Vista computer (or may already have done so).

It is also not clear whether one could apply the "downgrade rights license" to a copy of WinXP from another computer without violating the "single-computer license" on the source computer, or would need a new and separate copy (which may not be easily available).

Veghte does assert that:

"We will continue to provide security updates and other critical updates for Windows XP until April, 2014. Our ongoing support for Windows XP is the result of our recognition that people keep their Windows-based PCs for many years and a reflection of our commitment to provide the highest level of support for all our customers."

Close attention should be paid to the "security updates and other critical updates" bit. This is not full support of WinXP until 2014.

One observed artifact of movement of Microsoft programs to "limited support" status has been that compatibility with third party programs and older Microsoft applications software is no longer considered a requirement when updates of the kinds included are applied. If a WinXP security fix breaks an application, there probably will be NO SUPPORT for fixing it. In the past this hasn't caused much abrupt disabling of programs, but has instead resulted in "gradual crumbling and loss of features" in applications.

The Veghte letter carries no date, but the headline says "released today" on a post dated 23 June 2008. If interested, you can get a pdf of the full letter at http://www.microsoft-watch.com/XPletter.pdf

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 03:50 PM

Anyone running WinXP, or who might expect to in the future, should be concerned about SP3. It appears, as much from comments here as from news from Microsoft, that quite a few people have had SP3 installed, and that it's been mostly trouble free. For the near term, anyone offered the update, or who has it "pushed" to them via Microsoft AutoUpdates, should expect it to be a good-enough thing.

Those who don't have it yet and might want to check it out, and anyone who had a problem with an earlier attempt to install it, might want to take a look at:

Steps to take before you install Windows XP Service Pack 3 KB 950717

This article outlines the requirements your computer must meet to install SP3, and gives links to help for the errors that might occur when you try to install it. There are a lot of different errors listed, but for current distributions they are all fairly rare so you needn't worry too much about encountering one.

If you haven't installed SP3, it might be worthwhile to save the link for future reference since it is the most convenient place to find links to what to do if you might encounter one of the errors listed.

If you're the really nervous type, you might want to just stop reading at " Troubleshooting Windows XP SP3 installation," since the stuff that follows – and that might look scary – is below that. If you actually need any of the stuff at the bottom, you might benefit from having saved the whole web page to your local machine, so if you have lots of space available you could do that now.

Just above the line at the above page where it says " Troubleshooting Windows XP SP3 installation" you'll find a link to:

How to obtain the latest Windows XP service pack KB322389

This link tells you where to go for WinXP SP3, and also includes where to get SP2 and SP1a.

Note: YOU CANNOT INSTALL SP3 ON A COMPUTER THAT DOESN'T HAVE EITHER SP2 OR SP1a INSTALLED.

More to follow:

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Win XP SP3 anyone?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Jun 08 - 03:52 PM

While WinXP includes sufficient recovery tools to make it almost never necessary to reinstall the OS on a machine that's still bootable in any mode, if a hard drive fails you might need to reinstall the entire operating system. There are a very few other reasons why a reinstallation might be needed.

The original or restore disks most people will have will NOT include later SP releases. In my case, my original disks don't even include SP1. This means installing from the original, and then updating to SP2 before it is possible to install SP3.

If your original disks include SP1, it appears that you still will need to update either to SP1a or to SP2 before adding SP3.

When SP1 and SP2 were released, it was possible to order CDs from Microsoft, so that the update to "latest configuration" could be done locally before connecting to the internet to download later updates. A quick-look didn't find a place where you can get the SP2 CD now, although it might still be possible if you poke around at Microsoft some.

Note that SP2 is a "rollup" update and you don't need SP1 prior to installing it (according to information that used to be easy to find, but doesn't seem to be now).

While you can still download SP1a (a modified SP1 to make it capable of direct update to SP3?) or SP2, with WinXP going into "extended support" I don't feel particularly safe in assuming that the "prior updates" needed to install SP3, or SP3 itself, will remain available indefinitely. I also prefer to do as much of a restoration as possible locally, before exposing a new and unpatched machine to the internet.

My recommendation would be that anyone whose original installation disks don't include SP2 should download SP2 now and archive it (off the OS hard drive, of course). As noted, it may still be able to purchase an SP2 CD now, but I didn't find it still offered for free.

You do have the option now of (a.) installing SP3 direct from download, (b.) downloading and archiving, and/or (c.) of ordering the CD for SP3. The CD for SP3 is no longer free, but is priced at a nominal $3.99 (US) per copy at the site I visited recently. You should be aware that the first page of the order site does not mention the "shipping and handling" charge, which in my case was $11.99 (US), or any taxes (which were incorrectly calculated, but with minimal impact on total cost). My order was about $20 total for two copies.<sup>1

1</sup> I need two copies because "friends" who will need to borrow it have a poor "return performance tradition" – so I need one to lose, and the difference in price was nominal.

The last link in the previous post (How to obtain the latest Windows XP service pack KB 322389) gives all the details needed to look at what is available for all the applicable service releases for WinXP, and to make your own decisions about what to get NOW to provide for later system recovery needs that might come up.

Also note that WinXP is entering the support phase where "optional updates" not included with the "critical patches" in SP3 may no longer be available for restoration of a failed system. A "mirror image" of your hard drive to a separate drive that you can set on a shelf somewhere might be a good idea if you're the nervous type; but that takes a few extra resources that may not be available to everyone. An alternative could be to try to figure out what "options" you've installed and see if you can get backups of the individual patches for them while (if) they're still available; but that's potentially a lot of work.

John