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Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)

DigiTrad:
VAN DIEMAN'S LAND
VAN DIEMANS LAND (YOUNG MEN BEWARE)


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Van Diemen's Land (Revisited) (1)


Cherkassiya 02 Jul 08 - 07:21 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 02 Jul 08 - 07:30 PM
GUEST 02 Jul 08 - 08:46 PM
Jack Campin 02 Jul 08 - 09:11 PM
Tootler 05 Nov 10 - 01:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Nov 10 - 08:06 PM
Tattie Bogle 05 Nov 10 - 09:01 PM
Steve Gardham 06 Nov 10 - 05:21 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 10 - 08:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Nov 10 - 11:38 AM
MGM·Lion 07 Nov 10 - 11:53 AM
WalkaboutsVerse 07 Nov 10 - 12:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 07 Nov 10 - 02:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Nov 10 - 03:37 PM
Tootler 07 Nov 10 - 05:26 PM
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Subject: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Cherkassiya
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 07:21 PM

greetings i notice you have two songs in the Digital Tradition Mirror entitled "Van Dieman's Land" Antoon van Diemen was governor of the East Indies in 1642 and ordered Abel Janzoon Tasman to sail around Australia (then called Nieuw Holland) when Tasman sailed past the island now known as Tasmania after him he named it after Governor van Diemen as "Vandiemensland" which was later separated into three words before it was renamed after Tasman it was used as a place to send English convicts until about 1853 when "transportation" as a punishment was abandoned anyway, the correct spelling of the song should be "Van Diemen's Land" apparently, the spelling ending in "-man" came into use after A.L.Lloyd and Ewan MacColl published their album "Off To Sea Once More" by Stinson Records in 1963 and the name was spelled incorrectly on that album sorry to be so pedantic as to worry about spelling but i hope the spelling will be corrected

miriam (cherkassiya@aol.com; folksongcollector.com)


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 07:30 PM

A perfectly appropriate correction, and long overdue, no doubt.


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 08:46 PM

Try this, from 1855:
http://www.nls.uk/broadsides/scans/74411591.jpg
(in the National Library of Scotland's "The Word on the Street" collection).

It's spelt that way in almost all 19th century British broadsides. Lloyd and MacColl didn't invent it.

But I think you invented "Janzoon". It's "Janszoon" in every source I've seen.


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 09:11 PM

The last GUEST was me.


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Tootler
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 01:32 PM

Indeed. A search on the Bodleian Library Broadside website brings up 13 hits for "Van Dieman" and none for Van Diemen.

The OP might well be correct about the spelling of the actual name of the person after whom Tasmania was originally named, but the song title is correctly spelt "Van Dieman's land"


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 08:06 PM

But the place itself was called Van Diemen's Land, spelt that way. To confuse matters, the original Dutch name was Anthoonij van Diemenslandt These days it's called Tasmania, which avoids the problem.


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 09:01 PM

Spelled!
It was spelt.
I have spelled.
Van DIEMEN as I have spelled it!


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:21 PM

Cherk,
When you've finished worrying about the spelling I'd start looking at your punctuation. Sorry to be pedantic!


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 08:58 PM

Spelt and spelled are both correct. Most dictionaries give both.

[trivia]
"Spelt" is the older form. Past tenses formed by adding '-ed' only started to appear in the 17th century but have become steadily more common since. However the older form, "spelt" is not yet obsolete.
[/trivia]


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:38 AM

Like dreamt and dreamed and leapt and leaped and crept and creeped and a good few more.


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 11:53 AM

...Tho I think the increasing popularity of 'earnt' to be deprecated as a monstrosity...

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 12:07 PM

Something similar: I like hearing the Northumbrian bagpipes; and singing/playing, from my repertoire, "The Northumberland Bagpipes"..?


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 02:58 PM

Folksingers who have sung this all have used 'Van Dieman's'; writers of the time also spelled it that way.
There is only confusion to be had if the spelling is corrected.

See this book (Google):
Henry Walker Parker, 1834, Van Dieman's Land: Its rise, progress and present state with advice to emigrants, London, J. Cross, and Simpkin and Marshall; Oliver and Boyd, Edinburgh; and Currie and Co, Dublin. 244 pages plus appendix.

also:
"Van Dieman's Land," in Historical Narratives of Early Canada.
http://www.uppercanadahistory.ca/tt/tt11.html


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Subject: RE: Review: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 03:37 PM

Advance Orstrylya Fair...


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Subject: RE: Van Diemen (not Van Dieman)
From: Tootler
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 05:26 PM

Guest of 06 Nov 10 - 08:58 PM was me. Sorry, my cookie got blasted.


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