Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)

Subject: battle of bosworth field,MartinCarthy
From: GUEST,dick miles
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 10:40 AM

http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=4730&Path=battleofbosworthdick.mp3
Nice guitar here on Dick Miles composed song.I am guessing the tuning is dadeae,the key we performed it in was e minor,hope you enjoy

Subject: RE: battle of bosworth field
From: GUEST,helpful corrector
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 10:42 AM

http://www.soundlantern.com/UpdatedSoundPage.do?ToId=4730&Path=battleofbosworthdick.mp3

Subject: RE: battle of bosworth field
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 Jul 08 - 09:26 PM

Hi, Dick -
Might you like to post the lyrics and tell us a little about the recording?
nostalgia.wikipedia.org has a pretty good summary of the battle:

The Battle of Bosworth Field was fought on the 22nd of August 1485 when Richard III, a Yorkist, fought a pitched battle with the Lancastrian contender for his crown, Henry Tudor. Henry Tudor had landed in Wales with a small force in an attempt to claim the throne of England. Richard III had fought similar battles with Lancastrian usurpers in the past, but this one would be his last. Richard III was killed on the field and the battle proved to be decisive in ending the long-running mediaeval series of English wars known as the Wars of the Roses.
Henry Tudor's victory in this battle led to his being crowned as Henry VII, [beginning] the long reign of the Tudor dynasty in England.

Ballad of Richard III in the Digital Tradition also tells the story.

From Shakespeare's Richard III, 1591/2:

CATESBY:
Rescue, my Lord of Norfolk, rescue, rescue!
The king enacts more wonders than a man,
Daring an opposite to every danger:
His horse is slain, and all on foot he fights,
Seeking for Richmond in the throat of death.
Rescue, fair lord, or else the day is lost!

KING RICHARD III:
A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!

CATESBY:
Withdraw, my lord; I'll help you to a horse.

But could we have the lyrics to your song, Dick?
Thanks.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 12 Jul 08 - 06:23 AM

A great song Dick!

I am a Richard 3 fan, and I think you should send this to Steeleye or perhaps some up and coming folk rock outfit like Something Nasty in the Woodshed, who would do themselves a bit of good with a hit record.

You are missing a trick by not having some Richard 3 tags in your list. he's the one Birish monarch who has a fan club - courtesy of Shakespeare/ laurence Olivier/ Joephine Tey et.

if you do a video for You Tube bear in mind the Battle Field Site/nick some clips from the olivier film/ also the his grave in Tewksbury Cathedral - where his fans have an annual knees up.

You should contact the fan club - I think they're called The daughters of Time - after Tey's novel. Sorry if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs - the old showbiz hustler mode kicks in!

How about the RSC, are they contemplating a production? a gig there would do you no harm.

Subject: Lyr Add: BATTLE OF BOSWORTH FIELD (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Jul 08 - 11:16 AM

ok.
it is in my songbook The Sailors Dream which is available from my websitehttp://www.dickmiles.com
but here it is for mudcat.

The Battle of Bosworth Field.
(Dick Miles)

1.On the 22nd of August with glistening sword and shield.
Brave Richard king of England,did fight at Bosworth Field.
He led his troops in battle,and death did bravely face
The White Rose did fall never more to be replaced.
   Chorus.A horse, a horse,my kingdom for a horse.

2.Fight on stout hearted swordsman for king and country fight.
and aim you well bold archers the enemy well fright.
oh take you heed Northumberland and false Lord Stanley.
Have courage me lads for victorious we shall be.
   Chorus.

3. So thick and fast the arrows around the king did fly
when to the south marching up the hill false Stanley he did spy.
he mounted on his charger,to fight all for his crown
The White Rose did fall never more to leave the ground
Chorus

4.Unseated from his charger as on the ground lay he
surrounded and out numberd by lord stanleys infantry
they quickly stoop to kill as hawks high in the sky
The White Rose did fall theselast words he then did cry
Chorus

5.and so the last of the House of York to death did come at last
He ruled his people fairly and the law for bail he passed
a good and noble ruler by the Tudors so disgraced.
The White Rose did fall never more to be replaced.
chorus.

copyright, Dick Miles.
this song was written about 1984,and recorded on Cheating the Tide GVR227,with Martin Carthy playing guitar.
my inspiration was a book called The Daughter of Time,by Josephine Tey,I realised that Richard the Third,had been unfairly treated by historians,and particularly by William Shakespeare.
Shakespeare was writing at a time when if you criticised the existing monarchy you could be executed,and had to be careful not to upset the ruling Tudor dynasty,who were close relatives of Henry the Seventh.
I think this tune is suited to open guitar tuning,I played it in emodal or Eminor,but I would of course be happy for anyone to sing the song,and do it just how they want.
I am not sure but I think the tune is in the dorian mode. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 08:10 AM

thanks AL,I will give your comments some thought.this song works quite well in DADGAD,on the guitar.
if you are playing in d its d modal,and c major chords.
when played on concertina ,I used a lot of chords that omitted the third,Ithink.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 10:59 AM

"you should send this to Steeleye or perhaps some up and coming folk rock outfit"
Though Steeleye was dead and folk rock was a long time down and gone - hope so anyway
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 11:13 AM

Dick,
More relevant to Shakespeare than getting your head removed would have been earning his bread. He got precious little from acting and I don't think he got much published in his own time. Writers got their income from the patronage of royalty and nobility. So it was the 'sucking up' factor rather than the fear factor that encouraged Shakespeare to toe the line on the history plays. As well as DickIII sucking up to Liz, Macbeth was completely altered to suck up to JasI.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: DebC
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM

Wow, Dick this is really wonderful. Thank you for making this available.

Hope you are well.

Deb Cowan

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 12:47 PM

yes, Steve,quite right.thanks Deb.
Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 02:57 PM

'you should send this to Steeleye or perhaps some up and coming folk rock outfit"
Though Steeleye was dead and folk rock was a long time down and gone - hope so anyway'

Steeleye are in great shape, with ken Nicol as probably the best guitarist they have ever had. Innovations like midi bagpipes and concertinas are making folk rock more feasible than its ever been.

More feasible, because it gives you a bigger more exciing colour palette to choose your sounds from, and secondly you don't have accomodate the feedback from purely acoustic instruments fitted with a transducer, or plonked in front of a microphone.

I think this could be a very exciting song in the right hands. the beauty of DADGAD is of couse that you have power chords right under your fingers. the DADGAD to C move works very well with song as diverse as If I were a carpenter to The Galtee Mountain Boy - so it will certainly work here, if you want it to.

And you can get that high lonesome mountain music sound very easily - so yeh, by all means go for it. I bet Martin Carthy would love to do that again with the better recording technology that is available today - anybody would . a smashing song! Well done Dick! Niceone, my son!

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Jul 08 - 11:46 PM

couldn't sleep tonight so took a quick pop at it
hope you don't mind Dick.

Its a first take, as you can probably tell.

http://www.bigalwhittle.co.uk/id31.html

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 05:09 AM

of course I dont mind.
my main criticism of the song lyric wise is the use of the word charger twice.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 05:30 AM

I really hadn't noticed that. I don't think it grates. I totally neglected to put any air round the guitar - so its dry.

I will try and think of something to replace charger - has anything occurred to you in the interim?

I think it could be the sort of thing that takes off. Just needs a bit of snap to it - which I will try and practise.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: GUEST,Kevin Parker
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:17 AM

Love the song, Dick.
And WLD's version. Don't think you need to change the second 'charger', it sounds typical of the lyric repetition you can get in many traditional songs.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 10:07 AM

I would suggest White Steed,for the first charger,but its probably best left as it is,as Kevin Parker suggests. thanks everyone ,Dick Miles.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 05:11 PM

This is very, very good.

Thank you, Mr Miles

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:53 PM

Not the Mr Ed!

he'll let you know if you got it wrong about the horse!

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 12:02 AM

I cannot get onto the soundlantern site

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 02:41 AM

It's working now.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:23 AM

I think I've decided that despite the excellent Martin Carthy guitar accompaniment, it doesn't somehow sound "right". It sounds almost like someone taking the piss, particularly the chorus.

I think the nice fellow from Faversham whose name eludes me at the moment (classical guitar, usually has little daughter with him at festivals) writes more convincing folkalike songs.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 04:57 AM

'folkalike' - the only stuff to have your breakfast bar made from!

You can't actually hear much of what Martin's up to - he's well in the background - perhaps in another room having a cup of tea.

The song IS interesting. Its so 20th century. First it's the revised version of Richard 111.

The reason we all love Richrd 111 is that we love him swaggering about onstage being a bad boy - chopping off Hastings head before he'll have lunch, plopping Clarence in the malmsy butt, seducing Lady Anne as she carries her murdered husband to the graveyard, smothering those two obnoxious little mouthy bastard princes.

Dick Miles has written a song stressing his good points. he was an inspiring leader, very popular with the London crowds, dashing, he lead from the front in battle,passed some good laws.

second it has a decent hook line - one written by Shakespeare himself.

Shakespeare must have loved Richard 3. It gave him his first big hit. Richard gets some great lines - the winter of our discontent, a horse! a horse! etc.

Its a horrendous play to stage and has defeated every producer, I've ever seen - you can't cut folks heads off onstage - and that limits you!
that song has a lot of potential. Just tap into the energy of the myth!

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:30 AM

The song has also been recorded by Bill Prince,and Ramskyte.
of course the chorus is not obligatory,as most of the information is in the verses,however both Bill Prince and Ramskyte sang the song with the chorus.
but taste is a very individual thing,and each to their own,It would be silly for me to expect everyone to like the song.Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:28 AM

Richard wasn't popular with the London crowd...they mistrusted his northern connections.
Instead of repeating 'charger' why not use White Surrey which was the name of Richard's horse.
Bosworth wasn't the last battle of the Wars of the Roses...the final confrontation was the battle of Stoke in 1487.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:43 AM

White Surrey has three syllables,charger has two,Surrey is an alternative.
To folk audiences,and those unfamiliar with Richard the Third it requires extra explanation.
the main gist of the song[Richards acheivements and character] is not altered by historical accuracy regarding the battle of Stoke or Bosworth field,Sometimes a song has to have a little poetic licence.,to make it work as a song.thanks for all the comments.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 07:12 AM

Unseated from White Surrey on the ground lay he
Surrounded and outnumbered by Lord Stanley's infantry...

Sorry to be pedantic but his last words were "Treason! Treason!"

Folk audiences can be quite picky about historical accuracy.

Cheers H.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 01:21 PM

so it wasn't him who said, fancy a hump?

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: GUEST,Harry
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 07:06 AM

Apparently not little wee one...nor is his grave anywhere near Tewkesbury - he was buried near Leicester and his bones thrown into the river Soar after the dissolution of the monasteries.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 07:49 PM

Ah - there's no actual proof that the bones were dug up and thrown into the Soar! They could still be buried in the lanes of Leicester (somewhere near the Allied Irish Bank, which would have been in the grounds of the priory where he was buried).

There are some great Leicester stories about Richard - the hag on Bow Bridge who cursed him, the fortune he supposedly left at the White Boar Inn (which was hastily re-named the Blue Boar after his defeat) and for which a landlord's daughter was later murdered - that would make great songs.

Guest Harry is right - the Londoners disliked and mistrusted Richard and his Northern coterie, seeing them almost as foreign invaders.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 05:33 PM

refresh as its the 15 june

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: Reiver 2
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 12:10 AM

I, too, first became interested in Richard III by reading Josephine Tey's fascinating novel, 'The Daughter of Time." It convinced me that Richard has been greatly and unjustly maligned by history. The besmitching of Richard III's name and reputation was given a major assist by Shakespeare and has been carried forward by some recent writers such as Alison Weir in her "The Princes in the Tower." The best bioraphy of Richard III is by Paul Murray Kendall and entitled simply, "Richard the Third." Richard was, for those times, a just and honorable ruler. He had, however, powerful enemies who succeeded in bringing him down after a brief reign. He fought valiantly at Bosworth only to be betrayed by the Stanleys and others. The line he is said to have uttered, "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse!" is Shakespeare's. He did have his horse killed under him and died fighting on foot. I had not been aware of the song until seeing this thread. If anyone can post the complete lyrics, I'd greatly appreciate it. I'll have to check and see if there's a recording on YouTube.

Reiver 2

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: GUEST, Sminky
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 05:10 AM

I did the battlefield tour a couple of years ago - now I find out the real site was somewhere else. Who do I sue?

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 05:37 AM

reiver 2,the song is available on vinyl Cheating The Tide, it is also in my song book available from my website.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: theleveller
Date: 16 Jun 10 - 09:37 AM

"the Londoners disliked and mistrusted Richard and his Northern coterie,"

One of that coterie has his tomb in Flamborough church, on the East Yorkshire coast. This was Sir Marmaduke Constable who fought with Richard at Bosworth. Know as Little Sir Marmaduke because of his stature, he was a formidable soldier who had previously fought with King Edward in France and later, having been pardoned by Henry, fought at the seige of Berwick and, at the incredible age of 70, led the left flank of the English army at Flodden, personally dispatching many Scots. Strangest of all, though, is the manner of his death - he reputedly died after swallowing a live toad which ate his heart.

I've written a song beased on the epitaph on his tomb, which we how include in our repertoire.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: GUEST,Geoff the Duck
Date: 17 Jun 10 - 04:36 AM

Sminky - I understand your point. I walked the Bosworth site around 18 years back, and was impressed by the way they had placed info boards, so you were looking at a drawing of the view you saw in the real world, but as it might have looked at the earlier date. It made the descriptions of the sequence of events feel much more real and immediate. It is a shame that someone now is trying to prove that the actual location of the battle was somewhere else (it seems that everything historical has been discovered now and the only way archaeologists can make their name is to disprove things earlier ones had published).
That said, I don't recall anyone taking money off me, so grounds for a refund may be thin. I suggest you stand in a Leicestershire field and complain freely...
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Battle of Bosworth Field (Dick Miles)
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Apr 15 - 10:14 AM

http://youtu.be/UHql-Taq8DA