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Teachers & Folk Music

GUEST,Shimrod 14 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM
glueman 14 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Jul 08 - 01:50 PM
Bert 14 Jul 08 - 01:52 PM
Leadfingers 14 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM
GUEST,Peace 14 Jul 08 - 02:30 PM
Kev The Clogs 14 Jul 08 - 02:35 PM
Peace 14 Jul 08 - 02:37 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Jul 08 - 02:49 PM
Geordie-Peorgie 14 Jul 08 - 02:50 PM
Kev The Clogs 14 Jul 08 - 02:51 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Jul 08 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 14 Jul 08 - 02:58 PM
Naemanson 14 Jul 08 - 03:29 PM
Geordie-Peorgie 14 Jul 08 - 03:46 PM
mattkeen 14 Jul 08 - 04:01 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Jul 08 - 05:18 PM
Tootler 14 Jul 08 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,Chris Murray 14 Jul 08 - 06:10 PM
oggie 14 Jul 08 - 06:45 PM
Geordie-Peorgie 14 Jul 08 - 06:49 PM
Big Al Whittle 14 Jul 08 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,Peace 14 Jul 08 - 07:05 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Jul 08 - 07:18 PM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 14 Jul 08 - 07:23 PM
Peace 14 Jul 08 - 07:42 PM
Leadfingers 14 Jul 08 - 09:23 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Jul 08 - 11:49 PM
jonm 15 Jul 08 - 07:27 AM
Leadfingers 15 Jul 08 - 07:44 AM
GUEST,baz parkes 15 Jul 08 - 10:55 AM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,Cats 15 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 15 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 12:32 PM
GUEST 15 Jul 08 - 12:38 PM
greg stephens 15 Jul 08 - 01:29 PM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM
quokka 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM
Stringsinger 15 Jul 08 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 08 - 02:11 PM
Aeola 15 Jul 08 - 02:21 PM
Jim Dixon 15 Jul 08 - 03:09 PM
Lowden Jameswright 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM
In My Humble Opinion 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM
Lowden Jameswright 15 Jul 08 - 03:21 PM
In My Humble Opinion 15 Jul 08 - 03:27 PM
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Subject: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 01:40 PM

Yet again I've attended a so-called 'Folk Evening' and been patronised by a load of school teachers with guitars - and, wait for it - a recorder! Oh yes, and a sodding great accordian - which sounded like musical mush.

And yet again I was treated like a six year old and expected to wave my arms around - songs with actions! I wanted to scream, "I'll be 60 next birthday - not 6! I've got a degree, a mortgage and a lot of life experience! And I don't wave my f**king arms around for anyone - and especially not for a bunch of boring, anodyne, patronising tw*ts like you!!"

But I didn't, of course, I just finished my beer and left.

Seriously, though, should teachers be allowed to sing folk songs - should they even be allowed out the classroom without a signed affidavit stating that they will refrain from treating adults like infants?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: glueman
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM

I feel your pain. What is it with teachers and folk?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 01:50 PM

Recorder can rock, diddle, or wail depending on who's doing what with it. Or it can make annoying polite toots.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Bert
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 01:52 PM

You're just too old shimrod!!!

What you need is a good dose of kids and their songs. Lighten up, let your hair down and sing instead of complaining.

I know 'cos I went through a phase like you're going through some years ago, then I grew up and now I sing kids songs all the time. Maybe the grandkids help. Grandpa's are supposed to roll around on the floor with kids and act silly.

So get yourself a couple before it's too late, and start enjoying life.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM

The Day Job of a performer has NOTHING to do with their ability as an Entertainer ! As I recall , at the Height of their Folk Fame , The High Level Ranters were ALL Schoolteachers , in fact I recall a comment that Johnny Handle spent all day teaching kids to Speak 'proper' English , then went out and cashed in on his Geordie accent and Dialect !


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:30 PM

Piss off ya old wanker!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Kev The Clogs
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:35 PM

I'm a teacher (and I only admit that to people I trust - so that's all of my fellow folkies!!)

I'm guessing that they mean well, but that they have forgotten that folkies are actually quite normal and intelligent people!!!

When I'm doing folkie stuff (or trying to push it) I get then to listen to some good stuff, watch a video of my lot Morris Dancing, tell them about the drinking and the generally great crack that we have when we are out.

Come and say hello at point if you see me, and we'll appreciate folk for adults over a beer!!

Have a great season people :-)

Kev


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:37 PM

I ain't a folk singer but I do go on stage and I do NOT talk down to the people who are there--unless the stage is very high up. The premise is insulting.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:49 PM

Down with the pedagogic gerontocracy (as we used to say in my youth).

Come on Kev, we know another teacher, one who teaches music, don't we?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:50 PM

Well said, Peace! - But shouldn't wanker have a capital 'W' ?

Aah wadn't knaah - not bein' a teacher, like!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Kev The Clogs
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:51 PM

Yeah Hoff, but I was trying to be "professional" and give her the benefit of the doubt!!! (no, sod it, you're right!!! - perhaps I'm the unsual one!!!)


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:54 PM

Hi John's dad. No, teachers say "onanist".


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 02:58 PM

Up yours, Peace!

Give me a moment and I'm sure that I can come up with a suitable action ...


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Naemanson
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 03:29 PM

I'm a teacher and I do folk. I like to do Lou and Peter Berryman's It's Better Than That, You Can't Be a Pirate With All of Your Parts, Merry Mac, and Henery the Eighth. No hand movements required.

And I agree with you about those who do that. They need to be aware of their audience.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 03:46 PM

Hell's teeth Mr Bridge! Dictionary pudd'n' for breakfast?

There must be summat in these threads aboot solicitors and sea-shanties!

Did ye knaah that there's a pub in Soothampton caalled 'The Bent Brief'

Are ye gannin' te Broadstairs this year?? Aa'm ganna be on crutches like a REAL pirate!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: mattkeen
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 04:01 PM

Nothing wrong with recorders
Try Horses Brawl


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 05:18 PM

Nah, dictionary beer.

I will 4deffo be there the opening weekend, then pressure of work bending my briefs may drag me away...

There's a rock band from Gravesend called "Star Chamber". No lawyers in it.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Tootler
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 05:53 PM

Shimrod, face it. You're a boring old fart :-)


Welcome to the club.

Geoff


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:10 PM

Wanker should only have a capital W if it's Mr Wanker.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: oggie
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:45 PM

Pete Coe, Roger Watson, Tony Rose. Teachers all :)

There are good and bad in all walks of life.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Geordie-Peorgie
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:49 PM

Aah thowt it wez 'Horse's Branle' but pronounced 'Brawl' or hev aah got the wrang tune?

Thank you Chris! Just when ye think that there's nee courtesy left in the world - WALLOP! That's capital and aah'll remember that.

Now if aah can only get the apo'stro'phe's's in the reet places wel'l be laug'hin'


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 06:54 PM

not about whisky then.....


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:05 PM

For the record, I like Shimrod. Always have. We just need to have these little set-tos now and then to realize life is finite.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:18 PM

No Al, that'd be "Teacher's"


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:23 PM

Shimrod may have hit on something. I have seen this "classroom" phenomenon many times. It's the old "Girl Scout Campfire" approach (which may be fine for old Girl Scouts), but not for me, thank you.

I don't know where the young people who go into teaching have this "gee whiz, let's all clap hands and sing Kumbaya!" stuff inculcated into their brains. The real issues is, though, that many don't just talk down to adults, they talk down to their students in the classroom. It's not the root cause, obviously, but it is one of the subtle ways we have of "dumbing down" our students, a worsening scenario year to year. Few succeed where so little is expected.

Singing and instrumental music should be taught with high expectations, credible expertise and a certain joy in the music itself. Treating your sixth grade students (and their parents) like kindergartaners is both selfish and unproductive.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 07:42 PM

Well, finite in an allegorical sense. For indeed, what IS life?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 09:23 PM

There are occasions when I actually agree with the people who think Guest Posts should be banned !
IF Shimrod was a member , I could send him / her / it / a Personal Message , rather than clutter an already cluttered thread saying what a Pratt I think He /She / It / is !


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Jul 08 - 11:49 PM

Are you an ex-teacher, Terry?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: jonm
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:27 AM

Amongst the teaching profession, particularly among those who teach young children, there are some who are relentlessly patronising and belittling with their infantile manner.

Please do not tar the entire profession with the same brush, enough fine performers have been listed above already who number themselves among teachers or ex-teachers.

If you found the naff happy-clappy stuff irritating in a club scenario, imagine what it could be like to have one of those types calling a barn dance.

We did one gig and vowed never again with her!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:44 AM

Ex Teacher Richard ? NOT a chance ! Been a lot of things in my working life , but the nearest I got to teaching was a bit of basic foot drill training in the Air Training Corps , and a LITTLE bit of basic Banjo and Whistle teaching !
Any one want a whistle workshop at a festival by the way ?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:55 AM

Just out of interest, how did you know they were teachers?

The days of whiteboards (interactive or not..)have done away with that fine patina of chalkdust.

Baz


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:56 AM

Yeah. Helped save the cliffs of Dover though.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM

There do seem to be a lot of teachers about, particularly ones who work with students with severe behavioural difficulties and/ or Special Educational Needs. One thing that most teachers try their hardest not to do is be a teacher when they are being a folkie. Sorry if you don't like us. Now, are you sitting comfortably....:-)


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM

Never heard a Canuck say anything bad about this woman or her songs.

To go with that YOUTUBE broadcast, here's the lyrics.

Working Man written by Rita MacNeil.

[Slag that lady in this country and you'll have your hands full right quick.]

Chorus

It's a working man l am
And I've been down under ground
And I swear to God if l ever see the sun
Or for any length of time
I can hold it in my mind
I never again will go down under ground

At the age of sixteen years
Oh he quarrels with his peers
Who vowed they'd never see another one
In the dark recess of the mines
Where you age before your time
And the coal dust lies heavy on your lungs

Chorus

At the age of sixty-four
Oh he'll greet you at the door
And he'll gently lead you by the arm
Through the dark recess of the mines
Oh he'll take you back in time
And he'll tell you of the hardships that were had

Chorus
(Repeat Chorus)
(Repeat Chorus)

God I never again will go down under ground


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:38 AM

Just thought I'd lighten the tone.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM

For the record I didn't say that I don't like teachers (oh alright, maybe just a little bit ... NO, mustn't generalise! ... there's probably lots of really nice teachers out there ... possibly? ... sorry, you just caught me talking to myself - it's my age, you know ...) I merely expressed an antipathy to those teachers who characterise themselves as 'folk singers' and then proceed to patronise me.

Yours Truly,

A facetious, boring old fart.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 12:32 PM

You are NEVER boring, Shimrod.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 12:38 PM

Best not to mention that Steve Knightley (SOH) was a teacher for a short while

*runs for the door having set the cat among the pigeons*


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:29 PM

Now, this side of the room sing "Jackie Boy" and then the other half sing "Master". God, I remember the agony of it.And all accompanied by recorders.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM

LOL


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM

I bet they didn't understand the sexual imagery...


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: quokka
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM

Thanks for lightening the tone, Peace! lol


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:59 PM

I didn't get the details but teachers who sing folk songs can approach them with knowledge and information that is useful to an audience and may be able to communicate with kids better than the standard folkie.

The question I would have is what was the motivation here? To actually educate, to patronize, to do an ego number? This wasn't clear in the post.

I have known some teachers who were very knowledgeable about folk music and could
communicate some important values to an audience about history, the nature of the music,
and present a credible performance.

The thing to avoid is snobbery. There is no one way to do something. The post needs
to specifically articulate what was offensive and not generalize with reaction.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 02:11 PM

my wife is an infant school teacher.

She thinks this thread is hilarious....


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Aeola
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 02:21 PM

Most of the teachers I know in the Folk world seem to be good sorts. Maybe you've just been unlucky. Remember though that people often react to your own actions. Whew!! can't believe I said that!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:09 PM

When I was in college, I thought for a while I wanted to be a teacher. While observing at a local high school, one of the things I noticed was that the principal (headmaster) treated the teachers like kids. He brought a meeting to order thus: "All right! Everyone in your seats! No more talking!" The teachers acted as if this were perfectly normal.

My wife, who is a teacher, sometimes seems to forget where she is. Talking to me in our living room, she'll occasionally go into her "teacher voice" and shout at me as if she's trying to get the attention of a crowd of rowdy kids in a large room. This without a trace of anger, and totally unaware of how odd this is.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM

Somewhere back in time Jim, you must have "acted as if this were perfectly normal"


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: In My Humble Opinion
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM

"All right! Everyone in your seats! No more talking!"
This was a standard approach when i was in school, low these many hundreds of years ago, and it still is, to some degree.

*she'll occasionally go into her "teacher voice"*
It comes with the territory I'm afraid, i should know, i am a retired school teacher!

"I say, you, yes you in the back row, Jones minor, sit up and pay attention, and STOP picking your nose!"


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:21 PM

Bring back the old 12" rule I say - give it across the back of the knuckles - and it'll sort out our social problems in less than a Maggie Thatcher 4th term.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: In My Humble Opinion
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:27 PM

Which reminds me.......

Joyce Grenfell : Nursery School - Free Activity Period


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