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Teachers & Folk Music

Big Al Whittle 18 Jul 08 - 07:46 AM
Eye Lander 18 Jul 08 - 05:25 AM
Rowan 17 Jul 08 - 08:09 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Jul 08 - 11:24 AM
GUEST,Twonk 17 Jul 08 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 17 Jul 08 - 09:42 AM
GUEST,Chris Murray 17 Jul 08 - 09:30 AM
GUEST,Betsy at Work 17 Jul 08 - 08:44 AM
Mooh 17 Jul 08 - 08:12 AM
Sooz 17 Jul 08 - 07:29 AM
glueman 17 Jul 08 - 06:53 AM
Ruth Archer 17 Jul 08 - 06:52 AM
Big Al Whittle 17 Jul 08 - 06:48 AM
Piers Plowman 17 Jul 08 - 06:30 AM
TheSnail 17 Jul 08 - 04:45 AM
GUEST,synbyn 17 Jul 08 - 03:59 AM
GUEST,Shimrod 17 Jul 08 - 03:50 AM
Piers Plowman 17 Jul 08 - 02:35 AM
GUEST,Chris Murray 16 Jul 08 - 03:37 PM
Richard Bridge 16 Jul 08 - 02:43 PM
bubblyrat 16 Jul 08 - 01:53 PM
GUEST,LJW - at work in a real job 16 Jul 08 - 06:22 AM
GUEST,Guest 16 Jul 08 - 02:51 AM
Big Al Whittle 15 Jul 08 - 08:10 PM
paula t 15 Jul 08 - 07:56 PM
Steve Gardham 15 Jul 08 - 05:48 PM
Lowden Jameswright 15 Jul 08 - 03:36 PM
squeezebox-kc 15 Jul 08 - 03:36 PM
In My Humble Opinion 15 Jul 08 - 03:27 PM
Lowden Jameswright 15 Jul 08 - 03:21 PM
In My Humble Opinion 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM
Lowden Jameswright 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM
Jim Dixon 15 Jul 08 - 03:09 PM
Aeola 15 Jul 08 - 02:21 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 15 Jul 08 - 02:11 PM
Stringsinger 15 Jul 08 - 01:59 PM
quokka 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM
Richard Bridge 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM
greg stephens 15 Jul 08 - 01:29 PM
GUEST 15 Jul 08 - 12:38 PM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 12:32 PM
GUEST,Shimrod 15 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 11:38 AM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM
GUEST,Cats 15 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM
Peace 15 Jul 08 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,baz parkes 15 Jul 08 - 10:55 AM
Leadfingers 15 Jul 08 - 07:44 AM
jonm 15 Jul 08 - 07:27 AM
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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 07:46 AM

Or maybe they'll grow into someone everybody detests.

I can't help thinking we should pay the teachers that turn out nice people more.

And if you are responsible for Noel Edmonds......


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Eye Lander
Date: 18 Jul 08 - 05:25 AM

Maybe just maybe, those teachers are giving those children their first taste of folk music and maybe it will stick with them and perhaps they'll grow up into a Jim Causley or any other folkies that we love to listen to.

Jillie


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Rowan
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:09 PM

I suspect Shimrod didn't read the notice outside the venue and stumbled into a Wiggles concert.

Cheers, Rowan


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 11:24 AM

I dunno, they get six weeks holiday you know, and they've got books with all the answers in - its not like they've got to do the sums themselves......

then they complan when the kids beat them up!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Twonk
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 10:56 AM

so is corporal punishment still allowed in folk clubs ???

My local pub folk session on Friday nights must be run by teachers;

because whatever we do, or how good or bad we behave,
we're always kept in detention
hours after
the pub was supposed to be closed for all other drinkers !!!???


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 09:42 AM

Let's make one thing perfectly clear - I have nothing against teachers! Why, some of my best friends are ...

I just get annoyed with teachers who happen to call themselves 'folk singers' but can't seem to leave their day job behind and end up patronising me!

Right, I'm off to a meeting of my local 'School Teachers in Distress' support group.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 09:30 AM

I know, Ruth, but it's still quite hurtful. She goes on about her feelings being hurt - but she can lash out with the best.

I think that a lot of teachers like folk music - you can tell who the teachers are at festivals because they have sensible hair! I never tell anyone what I do - unlike a woman at Cambridge one year who was ostentatiously reading some educational document for the whole of the Saturday.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Betsy at Work
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:44 AM

Bob Davenport had a theory(s)in the 1970's about teachers and their non positive effects on the Folk Clubs - I mustn't try to paraphrase, but I definitely thought and still think that his thoughts had merit.
I wish he would expound on this Page.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Mooh
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 08:12 AM

For many years there was a local folk group which was often described as being a "group of teachers" though it also had a miner, a janitor, and a clergyperson. It was a bit heavy with teachers, 5 English teachers. Not sure if this characteristic contributed to its eventual demise. One or two teachers left, another joined. There was a lot of day job shop talk.

Due to their jobs, the interest in language was always present, and seemed to be a good fit with the interest in music. The three combined generated an interest in performance and so a band was born.

As for me, I am a teacher of private music lessons and hope not to be lumped into the general catagory described by previous posters. I am a pusher, and my drug of choice is music. As such I try to meet my market without undue antics.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Sooz
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 07:29 AM

Leave us alone - some of us deserve the flaming, most of us don't. (Probably like every other profession!)
Teacher with three more days to retirement.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: glueman
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:53 AM

The first time I encountered the teacher-folk link was forty odd years ago when forced to Strip the Willow to an LP record. Teachers are over-represented compared to other professions but nodody's said what the attraction is. Any guesses?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:52 AM

Chris Murray: just consider the source. The member in question has a chip on their shoulder about your profession - I shouldn't take them at all seriously.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:48 AM

All right class! Quieten down!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 06:30 AM

GUEST,Shimrod wrote:
"But I didn't, of course, I just finished my beer and left."

You mean you left before the Hokey-Pokey?!

And the deeply moving a-capella rendition of "Itsy-Bitsy Spider"?

For what it's worth, I thought it was pretty clear that you meant your remarks humorously and weren't seriously trying to pick a fight with teachers.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: TheSnail
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 04:45 AM

GUEST,Shimrod

You make a few innocent remarks and all hell breaks loose!

Are you new to Mudcat?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,synbyn
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 03:59 AM

an odd thread which flames a fair percentage of our customary audience! i suspect the original outburst was to do with teachers who perform in their spare time(sic) taking bread from the mouths of dibbling musicians... though most musicians I know who make a living do so by by going into schools... and teachers feel the same about those musos who frankly don't have the empathy or personality to teach and who consequently dump their output on their audience and run but nevertheless expect as of right respect and an attentive audience... each to their expertise, and those who combine the abilities , like Pete Coe, are gold dust... and the best performer in the world most people won't pay to see more than once every 6 months/ year- there are a lot of dates left to keep a club base running...


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 03:50 AM

You make a few innocent remarks and all hell breaks loose!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Piers Plowman
Date: 17 Jul 08 - 02:35 AM

Little Johnnie was playing with a pile of horse manure when Miss Jones, his teacher came over. Since it was a progressive school and she didn't want to thwart his creativity, she didn't tell him to stop and wash his hands, but instead asked what he was making. I'm making a teacher", he replied.

"Right", thought Miss Jones and sent him to the principal (head teacher, for any Britishers reading this).

The Principal said, "Miss Jones tells me, when she asked you what you were making with the horse manure, you told her it was a teacher. Is that right?"

"No", replied Little Johnnie. "It was a principal."

This was too much for the Principal, so he sent Little Johnnie to the School Psychologist.

The School Psychologist said, "Little Johnnie, when Miss Jones asked you what you were making with the horse manure, you told her it was a teacher, and when Mr. Johnson asked you, you told him it was a principal. Now, when I ask you what you were making with the horse manure, you're going to tell me it was a School Psychologist aren't you?"

"No", replied Little Johnnie, "not enough horse manure."


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 03:37 PM

I'm a teacher and, according to one banned contributor from this board, I'm only a teacher so that I can have nice long holidays to go to folk festivals.

She knows nothing about where I teach, what I teach or who I teach.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 02:43 PM

And when we are done with teachers, can we get onto the issue of recorders? When Jacqui was alive and we were involved in the running of Hazlitt Folk, I wrote blurbs about the residents, and called her recorder playing "fiery". I think anyone who ever saw her play would have agreed with that. Technical limitations, in some respects she had, and no baroque players would have wanted her type of playing, but it was NOT "toot-toot".

It ain't the instrument, it's what you do with it.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: bubblyrat
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 01:53 PM

My partner, "Wild Flying Dove," is a SENCO , ie Special Educational Needs Co-ordinator , and I think that she does a FANTASTIC job ! Yes, she can be a bit "bossy" and dictatorial sometimes, but I wouldn't have her any other way, and if ANYONE wants to come up at Sidmouth, or any other folk venue, and slag her off, I shall be more than happy to spend a night in Police custody for the privelege of " --- filling them in"---and that's a promise !!!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,LJW - at work in a real job
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 06:22 AM

I did 10 years in Industry, then 22 years in Teaching, then back to a "proper job" in the rough and tough world of Industry. All those pricks who come out with statements like "no better part-time job than teaching - all those holidays" should try it. I enjoyed my time in teaching - colleagues and the students were great; the Gov'ts and Management were utter twats.

Having wide experience of both sides I'm qualified to say this - teaching is the toughest, but you can sustain 60+ hour weeks for only so long. I'm glad I'm back in a job where you can get a breather during the working day, and find time to have a social life during the evenings and weekends.

PS Without teachers/ex-teachers in folk clubs, there'd be no folk clubs - fact.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 16 Jul 08 - 02:51 AM

It is not just Teachers who bring home, and to our folk gatherings their 'Working attitude'.My partner regularly tries speaking down to me in her high & mighty 'Professional Role?).


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 08:10 PM

Well i was a teacher, and I can tell you from experience - they're all complete bastards - every one of them.

Its only enlightened legislation that has got rid of folksingers who throw chalk at the audience, and they'd hit you for not joining in choruses - only they're not allowed to nowadays.

what i say is those can do, and those who teach should have their liver ripped out and fed to the cockroaches.

Theres too much of it......

And another thing they don't stick to the 1554 definition of folksinging. theres none of this namby pamby waving your arms about in real traditional folksinging.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: paula t
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:56 PM

I'm a teacher and I am becoming seriously disheartened by the negative generalisations made in the media and elsewhere.It seems that we are not only responsible for most social ills but now we are even responsible for the odd bad experience at a folk club!
Please don't tar us all with the same brush.We don't all try to educate others in our spare time. I always make a conscious effort not to appear patronising to the young children I teach - never mind the adults I meet at folk clubs.
You don't know how depressing it is to be constantly belittled for your occupation - which most of us entered because we wanted to make a difference.
Sorry to sound so bitter and twisted, but I am so fed up with hearing this kind of generalisation and not being able to respond.Thank you mudcat for giving me a rare opportunity to shout back!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 05:48 PM

A few teachers are naturals, but most are actors. Unfortunately they sometimes find difficulty in turning off their acting persona. Currently they are in a state of confusion brought on by massive political interference, as are most public workers.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:36 PM

Have your plectrum tweeked here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiWJWLCoH2M&feature=related


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: squeezebox-kc
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:36 PM

My earliest introduction to folk music was my teacher Miss Blackburn at about 6 years old and i thank her for it but in later life meeting her as a caller (patronising) was an understatement but hey at over 60 i still enjoy the music. i hope David & Eileen Keys are still out there calling dances in their own inimitable style

Ken C


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: In My Humble Opinion
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:27 PM

Which reminds me.......

Joyce Grenfell : Nursery School - Free Activity Period


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:21 PM

Bring back the old 12" rule I say - give it across the back of the knuckles - and it'll sort out our social problems in less than a Maggie Thatcher 4th term.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: In My Humble Opinion
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM

"All right! Everyone in your seats! No more talking!"
This was a standard approach when i was in school, low these many hundreds of years ago, and it still is, to some degree.

*she'll occasionally go into her "teacher voice"*
It comes with the territory I'm afraid, i should know, i am a retired school teacher!

"I say, you, yes you in the back row, Jones minor, sit up and pay attention, and STOP picking your nose!"


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Lowden Jameswright
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:13 PM

Somewhere back in time Jim, you must have "acted as if this were perfectly normal"


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 03:09 PM

When I was in college, I thought for a while I wanted to be a teacher. While observing at a local high school, one of the things I noticed was that the principal (headmaster) treated the teachers like kids. He brought a meeting to order thus: "All right! Everyone in your seats! No more talking!" The teachers acted as if this were perfectly normal.

My wife, who is a teacher, sometimes seems to forget where she is. Talking to me in our living room, she'll occasionally go into her "teacher voice" and shout at me as if she's trying to get the attention of a crowd of rowdy kids in a large room. This without a trace of anger, and totally unaware of how odd this is.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Aeola
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 02:21 PM

Most of the teachers I know in the Folk world seem to be good sorts. Maybe you've just been unlucky. Remember though that people often react to your own actions. Whew!! can't believe I said that!


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 02:11 PM

my wife is an infant school teacher.

She thinks this thread is hilarious....


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:59 PM

I didn't get the details but teachers who sing folk songs can approach them with knowledge and information that is useful to an audience and may be able to communicate with kids better than the standard folkie.

The question I would have is what was the motivation here? To actually educate, to patronize, to do an ego number? This wasn't clear in the post.

I have known some teachers who were very knowledgeable about folk music and could
communicate some important values to an audience about history, the nature of the music,
and present a credible performance.

The thing to avoid is snobbery. There is no one way to do something. The post needs
to specifically articulate what was offensive and not generalize with reaction.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: quokka
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM

Thanks for lightening the tone, Peace! lol


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:43 PM

I bet they didn't understand the sexual imagery...


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:38 PM

LOL


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: greg stephens
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 01:29 PM

Now, this side of the room sing "Jackie Boy" and then the other half sing "Master". God, I remember the agony of it.And all accompanied by recorders.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 12:38 PM

Best not to mention that Steve Knightley (SOH) was a teacher for a short while

*runs for the door having set the cat among the pigeons*


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 12:32 PM

You are NEVER boring, Shimrod.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 12:31 PM

For the record I didn't say that I don't like teachers (oh alright, maybe just a little bit ... NO, mustn't generalise! ... there's probably lots of really nice teachers out there ... possibly? ... sorry, you just caught me talking to myself - it's my age, you know ...) I merely expressed an antipathy to those teachers who characterise themselves as 'folk singers' and then proceed to patronise me.

Yours Truly,

A facetious, boring old fart.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:38 AM

Just thought I'd lighten the tone.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:35 AM

Never heard a Canuck say anything bad about this woman or her songs.

To go with that YOUTUBE broadcast, here's the lyrics.

Working Man written by Rita MacNeil.

[Slag that lady in this country and you'll have your hands full right quick.]

Chorus

It's a working man l am
And I've been down under ground
And I swear to God if l ever see the sun
Or for any length of time
I can hold it in my mind
I never again will go down under ground

At the age of sixteen years
Oh he quarrels with his peers
Who vowed they'd never see another one
In the dark recess of the mines
Where you age before your time
And the coal dust lies heavy on your lungs

Chorus

At the age of sixty-four
Oh he'll greet you at the door
And he'll gently lead you by the arm
Through the dark recess of the mines
Oh he'll take you back in time
And he'll tell you of the hardships that were had

Chorus
(Repeat Chorus)
(Repeat Chorus)

God I never again will go down under ground


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,Cats
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 11:20 AM

There do seem to be a lot of teachers about, particularly ones who work with students with severe behavioural difficulties and/ or Special Educational Needs. One thing that most teachers try their hardest not to do is be a teacher when they are being a folkie. Sorry if you don't like us. Now, are you sitting comfortably....:-)


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Peace
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:56 AM

Yeah. Helped save the cliffs of Dover though.


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: GUEST,baz parkes
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 10:55 AM

Just out of interest, how did you know they were teachers?

The days of whiteboards (interactive or not..)have done away with that fine patina of chalkdust.

Baz


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:44 AM

Ex Teacher Richard ? NOT a chance ! Been a lot of things in my working life , but the nearest I got to teaching was a bit of basic foot drill training in the Air Training Corps , and a LITTLE bit of basic Banjo and Whistle teaching !
Any one want a whistle workshop at a festival by the way ?


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Subject: RE: Teachers & Folk Music
From: jonm
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 07:27 AM

Amongst the teaching profession, particularly among those who teach young children, there are some who are relentlessly patronising and belittling with their infantile manner.

Please do not tar the entire profession with the same brush, enough fine performers have been listed above already who number themselves among teachers or ex-teachers.

If you found the naff happy-clappy stuff irritating in a club scenario, imagine what it could be like to have one of those types calling a barn dance.

We did one gig and vowed never again with her!


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